The Ultimate Malate Stack: Body Octane + Nitrous + V12
- 04-10-2004, 02:47 PM
The Ultimate Malate Stack: Body Octane + Nitrous + V12
Next week will mark the beginning of my new stack: Di-creatine malate (SAN V-12) + di-arginine malate (Syntrax Nitrous) + citrulline malate (MAN Body Octane). Why? Because I am a sucker for "themed" stacks and there are already a few threads reviewing Syntrax Nitrous, which I already have. I broke the bank for this trifecto, but I have high hopes for it. Perhaps if it works, other sub-21 lifters will at least consider it before jumping onto the prohormone train.
I chose V-12 over my usual Swole V.2 for 2 reasons: 1) it is on sale right now as SAN is prepping to release V-12 Turbocharged, and 2) it contains AAKG. I am aware that AKG and malic acid are both Krebs cycle intermediates, and Joey from SAN postulated that there may be a synergistic benefit to combining them.
- 04-10-2004, 02:51 PM
My workout schedule for the cycle. On nearly all lifts, especially compound lifts, I aim for 6-9 reps, typically with the negative 1.5 to 2 times as long as the positive portion of the exercise. I do not necessarily do all of the exercises listed or for the number of sets listed. This is more of a "general" sheet and once I get in the gym I tinker with it to add a little variety. I may go one less set on something or drop an exercise entirely if I am really feeling like going at 110% intensity with less volume. On squats, I have had success in the past doing a first set rest-pause style for 20. I love that feeling of burning and quivering legs for the last 7 or so reps. From what I have read about citrulline malate, it may help to really increase my performance on this set in particular.
- 04-10-2004, 02:56 PM
To make this log a little more personal, here's what I listen to before hitting the weights. All hip-hop. I don't deny that metal can really get your adrenaline pumping, but I'm a rap fan, and these tracks fire me up even at 5:45 am. To make the list, a track has to be aggressive, rhythmic, and haunting. This style of rap seemed to be prominent from 1994-1998 or so; the earlier stuff tends to sound more experimental, stripped down, and funky (it definitely still has its place) and a lot of the newer stuff is just whack. I am always looking for new tracks to add, so feel free to toss out ideas or PM me.
04-10-2004, 03:00 PM
The foundation of any successful bodybuilder's lifestyle. Listed below is my typical weekday diet. I do not keep a food log/count calories; rather, I use the mirror and the scale as means of monitoring and adjusting my caloric intake and carb/protein/fats split.
530 am - preworkout
3 scoops Nitrojet*
15 grams dextrose
15 grams sucrose
1 scoop Syntrax Nectar
*I am nearly out of Nitrojet. During the stack I will replace NJ with Body Octane + Nitrous + V-12.
6 am - during workout
4 scoops ICE
7 am - post workout
2 scoops Dymatize Elite Whey
40 grams dextrose
9 am - morning meal
1 cup cooked oats flavored with cinnamon+1/2 scoop whey
1 tbsp natural peanut butter
1 can tuna, drained and washed with water
1 Diet Pepsi
12 pm - lunchtime
Large salad with chicken or ham/turkey/egg + carrots, green peppers
1 whole wheat bagel
1.5 scoops whey
230 pm - midday meal
1 can tuna
1/2 cup oatmeal flavored with 1/2 scoop whey + 1/2 banana, or
1 cup oatmeal flavored with 1/2 scoop whey
530 pm - dinnertime
2 skinless chicken breasts or 1 chicken breast + broiled catfish
1 cup broccoli, cooked
1/2 cup carrots or green beans
3/4 cup brown rice topped with vegetarian chili
12 oz. skim milk
9 pm - bedtime meal
12 oz skim milk
1.5 scoops milk protein isolate
2 tbsp natual peanut butter
I also consume 1.25-1.5 gallons of water per day. If I happen to wake up in the middle of the night between 1 and 2 am, I usually consume an additional scoop of whey.
04-10-2004, 03:31 PM
Hey great intro to the log man. Ill be following it closely as I have heard great things about each of the individual products that you will be stacking. Should turn out to work really well with eachother. Good luck, keep us updated!
04-10-2004, 07:17 PM
What do you think of the nitrojet so far? I have some on order, and plan on replacing swole v2 once I run out with KU and nitrojet instead.
04-10-2004, 07:51 PM
Recovery speed is amazing, noticeably better than supplementing with Vendetta pre-workout. I only used 3 scoops per day, all taken pre-workout. My vascularity, particularly in the arms, has really gone up over the past month. I attribute this to the Sytenhance: Arm Enhance protocol that I have been running and to the NJ. After I get done evaluating how I respond to many of these new supplements that lend themselves so well to pre-workout (essential to a first-thing-in-the-morning lifter such as myself), I will choose 1 or 2 and stick with them. So far NJ is a finalist. If used at 2 servings per day, maybe with additional HMB, I imagine you would experience unprecedented recovery, stamina, and some strength gains.Originally Posted by max silver
04-10-2004, 11:37 PM
Nice log bro, only thing I would change is the sugars in the diet. I would replace the sucrose and dextrose with oatmeal. I have felt better energy when relying on oatmeal as my carb source, I also use broccoli and brown rice for variation.
Keep us updated cause I'm curious about the body octane & other citrulline malate products, but they're damn expensive.
04-11-2004, 01:05 AM
I agree with you in most circumstances, but I have found that I cannot eat oatmeal 10 minutes after waking up/20 minutes before working out and feel like I'm kicked out of catabolism. The sugar combination has proved to work fairly well for me. When I begin to cut, I will likely do as you say, though, and use strictly low GI carbs.Originally Posted by Iron Warrior
04-11-2004, 04:22 AM
I would tend to agree, that when working out immediately upon waking up, a very fast acting carb source is necessary to fuel the workout, and stave off catabolism as well. For myself I generally like to eat more solid food, and thus incorporate oatmeal aprrox. 1 to 1.5 hours before the workout. I'm still undecided as to whether high gi or low gi is best post workout, as the most successful cut I went through I used dextrose post workout.
04-12-2004, 05:16 AM
I used to have an energy problem during my workouts. I'd start to poop out at about 45 mins. My workouts go for 45-60mins so it really starts to suck at the end. I tried messing with eating before hand but sometimes it left me too full and hindered my workout. I found two things that really worked. I'd put about 40 grams of dextrose in some water with some unsweetened kool aid and I have an instant workout drink. I started to sip it after every set and it gave me energy all the way to the end of my workout. I've also been trying proteinfactory's Torque. Torque is great stuff. I get carbs and protein in a light drink.
With every sport drink I've tried it always left a heavy feeling in my stomach and it just made me slow down and less intense. Torque kept my energy levels up like dextrose, but is has a low GI. But check it out and make your own decision. The only problem with it is that dextrose only costs about $2.50 a pound (with with like 10 servings @ 40grams) and Torque costs like $11.00 a pound (and only 4.5 servings a pound) so on a per serving basis Torque costs as much as a gatorade or poweraid.
04-12-2004, 11:45 AM
04-12-2004, 12:05 PM
Weight: 165 lbsOriginally Posted by ke0ki
Height: 5' 8.5"
Lifts (provided are the weights and reps used on my final set of the exercise):
- Flat Barbell Bench Press: 195 x 5
- Incline Dumbell Press: 80 x 5
- Barbell Military Press: 145 x 5
- Squat: 215 x 6
- SLDLs: 215 x 6
04-15-2004, 11:04 AM
Although I still have about half a week of Sytenhance remaining, I have decided to begin dosing of my Nitrous, Body Octane, and V-12. I thought I was going to have to wait longer to begin, but I located about 1/4 jug of V-12 that I abandoned when Swole V.2 first came out. Unfortunately, the flavor is grape, which wouldn't be my first choice for mixing with Body Octane, but I'll manage. The other reason I have decided to start now (other than being eager) is that often these compounds take a few days to kick in. I will still be able to provide a solid review of Sytenhance, which I have run for 6 weeks using only protein powder, ICE, and a low dose of NJ. The 4 or so day overlap of my Sytenhance cycle and Malate cycle will not have any significant impact on my review.
I mixed all of the ingredients individually at first to evauate their solubility and taste.
Body Octane: Mixes clear! I was surprised, as I expected the "Citrus Breeze" flavor to be orange or yellow. Solubility is very good. Gritty powder, not ultra fine. It seems very hygroscopic, so I can definitely see clumping being a problem in a humid environment. Taste is fantastic - like a more subtle orange V-12.
Nitrous: Whoa. How do I describe this taste. Baking soda + table salt? Tangy and bitter, very chemical. Do not drink this by itself. I gave a small scoop to my roommate and told him to toss it back, it was the new Syntrax supplement. He chugged an entire Diet Root Beer and then cursed me out. Powder is extremely fine, solubility is awesome. The taste does die down quite a bit when combined with other flavors.
V-12: SAN V-12 has always been a bit overpowdering in the flavor department. I used to drink it with twice the recommended water to make it more bearable. Not disgusting, but it does hit your tastebuds hard. Solubility is a little suspect - you have to employ the swirl-drink-swirl-drink tactic. Powder consistency is somewhere between Body Octane and Nitrous. Be careful not to shake the container before opening, as the powder tends to dust up and get in your eyes and nose. I've noticed this with Swole V.2 as well.
04-15-2004, 12:43 PM
I have noticed the exact same thing with V-12. I dilute it with 1.5-2x the suggested amount of water and it's not bad at all. I use a sports bottle with a nipple top and shake the hell out of it, works better than trying to mix it with a spoon IMO. And yeah both V-12 and Swole are so fine they create a damn mist when you open them, kind of annoying, but no biggie.Originally Posted by GhostfaceKillah
I think this may be about the best thing going for people not interested in hormonal products.
04-15-2004, 11:26 PM
Sweetness, I just received my kreataine ultra and nitrojet today. My question is this:
would these items be best utilized for muscle retention while cutting, or would I be better advised to save them for the next time I'm eating above maintenance calories? I still have a full container of Swole V2 left, and can't decide whether to continue using it until it's out on my current cut, or jump right into the nitrojet and kreataine ultra. Any thoughts?
04-16-2004, 04:38 AM
If you tend to lose a lot of muscle mass, energy, and endurance during a cut, I would recommend using the KU and NJ then. I have also heard from a few people that adding additional HMB to the mix (bulk from the same place you got the KU and NJ) has really helped with muscle retention in a caloric deficit.Originally Posted by max silver
04-19-2004, 06:14 PM
First days of supplementation
Here is the exact formula of my pre-workout drink, consumed from roughly 535 am - 550 am; workout begins at 6 am:
1 heaping scoop MAN Body Octane
1 scoop SAN V-12
1 scoop Syntrax Nitrous
2 sugar packets (8 grams of sucrose)
10 grams of dextrose
2 grams Bulk Nutrition Taurine
2 scoops Xtreme Formulations ICE
I have been using Vendetta or Nitrojet+carbs for the past 4 months, so I am using ICE+carbs to essentially "replace" this portion of my pre-workout shake. Because I lift first thing in the morning, I find it necessary to consume some form of BCAAs or EAAs and high-GI carbs to kick myself out of catabolism. My logic behind the (roughly) 50/50 dextrose-sucrose blend is laid out by Zeppelin in the Vendetta product description. I keep the pre-workout carbs as low as possible to still provide me the energy and alertness to get through my workouts.
This concoction tastes surprisingly good. The grape V-12 goes well with the grape ICE, and Body Octane adds a citrus punch to it. I can't even make out the Nitrous. The Arm Enhance training protocol is over and I am back to my own plan (laid out in a previous post in this thread). So far I have hit arms and legs (the days of each workout are slightly off now, but the order of bodyparts remains the same). On arms day, I was disappointed with my in-gym pumps. Nothing worth mentioning. In fact, I spent the better part of the morning muttering to myself, analyzing my arms in every reflective surface I passed, sizing up every dude who passed me on campus, and generally feeling small. Around mid-day, during another reflective analysis, I paused - my arms actually looked pumped for no apparent reason. Vascularity looked great. This was my only my third day of supplementation with the stack. Legs day was crucial as always, and I did some cardio later on. Hopefully my DOMS will be reduced some because, as usual, I am having difficulty moving. I did notice a calf pump during cardio, particularly near my shin. I will monitor this in the future as well, during cardio and basketball sessions.
04-20-2004, 12:43 PM
It was a beautiful night out last night and I was frustrated with work, so I went out for a 3 mile run. My legs were still sore from legs day and my other cardio session, but surprisingly, I was very light on my feet and had a great run. No cramps and (seemingly) no additional leg fatigue today. My workout this morning (shoulders) went very well; I was loaded with energy. I will go into more detail in a weekly roundup later. My main reason for updating was the awesome cardio experience.
04-23-2004, 09:50 AM
1 Week Update
I have now been on Body Octane/V-12/Nitrous for a full week. Unfortunately, it has also been the most stressful and busy week of my college career. I'm positive that my Type A personality negatively affects my gains, as I keep nearly the same diet, training, and sleep schedule during breaks and grow magnitudes faster.
Still, I had a great week of workouts. Here's a recap of the biggest things I noticed:
- Dramatically increased performance in aerobic exercise
- Enhanced recovery/less DOMS
- Sustained muscle cell volumization throughout the day
- Increased energy in the gym
- 20 rep squat + 10 lbs (185)
- SLDL up 10 lbs (225)
- Rep or minor weight increases on Arnold Press, Incline DBell Bench, T-bar row
So far, I am pleased with my results. No bloating. I am excited to see what week 2 brings.
04-26-2004, 07:18 PM
When the going gets tough, the tough get going
Update time. I've been on everything for about a week and a half now, and I think things are starting to kick in full force. Despite being mentally fatigued (which translates into physical fatigue) 24-7, I've still been having productive workouts on a regular basis.
Endurance especially has never been higher in the gym. Rep counts are staying high late into the workout and I have been leaving the gym still feeling energetic rather than dragging. Considering I lift at 6 am, maintaining energy levels throughout the day is usually very difficult. Throughout the year I had regularly been taking naps and relying on caffeine to get me to the night. It struck me today that I haven't been napping as regularly, and my stimulant dependence seems to be on the decline. This is excellent news.
Strength today on shoulders was great even though I didn't storm into the gym with my usual vigor. Vascularity is also coming out even more than usual even though I am eating slightly above maintenance calories. My muscles have also felt more dense/full as of late.
I pulled something in my groin over the weekend. I hope it will be recovered enough to decimate my legs later on in the week.
21st birthday is one week from today!
04-26-2004, 11:38 PM
"I pulled something in my groin over the weekend. I hope it will be recovered enough to decimate my legs later on in the week."
If I had that much arginine in my system, I'd be pulling my groin a lot too.
04-29-2004, 09:49 AM
Legs day was brutal. I was feeling well enough to do my regular workout, and I'm glad I did. My roommate was also doing legs, so I had a spotter. The good thing/bad thing is that he is brutal about how deep I go, so on days that I lift legs with him my reps always drop a little. Squats pretty much stayed the same this week, which probably means a little improvement considering the extra depth I was hitting. Deadlifts jumped 10 lbs and reps. Rep increases in leg extensions and hamstring curls as well. By the time I was done with calf raises, I felt worn out but not nearly as dead as usual. Today, although I have yet to walk anywhere but the bathroom, my degree of soreness seems considerably less than usual.
Today was an off-day. Just drank my Power Shake. Face is tingling from the Body Octane, as usual.
05-14-2004, 03:43 PM
what happened to the updates? hope the malates didn't react horrifically with the 21st birthday drinking
05-14-2004, 05:38 PM
Hahaha. I just thought no one was reading the thread (and forgot to update it when I updated my logs on other sites). I will post my most recent updates.Originally Posted by cookmic5
05-14-2004, 05:41 PM
Weight: 165 (+0)
- Aerobic performance drastically improving
- Post-aerobic recovery much faster
- Vascularity continuing to improve
- Energy in the gym despite sky-high stress levels
- Barbell Military Press + 10 lbs (155 x 4)
- SLDL + 10 lbs (20 lbs total) (235 x 6)
- Incline Dbell press + 5 lbs (85 x 5)
My strength has not been increasing very much lately, but with the added cardio I have been doing and the level of stress that I am under right now, I am actually pleased. I have been running 3 miles several times a week at around a 7 - 7:30 pace. Yesterday I tossed in a run in the afternoon after doing legs in the morning. I didn't expect to be able to walk today, but I am actually moving around quite well. From what I am experiencing, I believe that Body Octane will be an awesome tool to use during cutting season to assist with cardio performance and to aid in strength and energy maintenance. This stack is also doing a lot for my vascularity, but I am unsure which piece of the puzzle is responsible for this. I had good vascularity gains with V-12 in the past, but this is beyond that.
I never made the switch to Swole V.2 like I considered earlier; frankly, I have been pleased with this stack and did not feel the need to trade in V-12 just because of the NAG content.
It looks like I have about 5 days worth of Body Octane left, maybe a week or so of Nitrous left, and 5 scoops of V-12 left, so everything will run out around the same time. I have been using the Nitrous scoop for the Body Octane since the handle is much longer; it appears that my approximation of serving size (1.5 Nitrous scioops) was right on, since the Body Octane will run out around day 26 (50 servings at 2 servings per day is 25).
2 more exams for me, so I am off to study now. A final write up will be made when I am settled in my temporary summer residence on Thursday.
05-17-2004, 10:04 AM
Internet problems, exams, moving back from school, and an odd turn of events in my personal life have all contributed to the delay in my final synopsis of the stack. I know, excuses are like *******s - everyone's got one. For those of you who have been dying to read an overall review, I apologize.
Weight: 165 (+0)
Bodyfat: No quantitative measurement, but I appear far leaner
~ Endurance through the roof (able to complete more sets and keep rep counts up far into the workout)
~ Enhanced recovery (very little DOMS, able to maintain/increase strength even with added cardio)
~ Improved vascularity (my arms and calves are looking freaky)
~ Enhanced aerobic performance (no cramping, able to maintain high levels of intensity for prolonged periods of time)
~ Sustained pumps (particularly in the calves, forearms, and chest)
~ Sexual benefits (you get the idea)
~ Taste (I mixed everything together and it was refreshing and not overpowering)
~ Cost (you may have to skip a car payment)
~ Timing (effects are much more pronounced on an empty stomach)
~ Clumping (Body Octane is extremely hygroscopic)
This stack blew me away. It came on subtly and just kept getting better through the end. What really impressed me was my ability to perform cardio while still making small strength increases. My cardio sessions are pretty rough (long runs and HIIT on the treadmill and bike) and usually take so much out of me that my lifting begins to suffer and I lose muscle fullness. With the help of Nitrous + Body Octane + V-12, I maintained a full appearance, experienced extremely productive aerobic training, and still had energy to throw weights around. My recommendation would to utilize this as a cutting stack. I was not in full cut mode (I have been adding cardio every 2 months or so while maintaining a bulking diet), but I believe that these products will assist in achieving vascularity, maintaining strength, size, and energy, and help to fuel the body through several weeks of extremely intense lifting + cardio.
Thank you Syntrax for the Nitrous to test, thank you Joey for providing expert opinion and for producing an amazing product, and thank you to everyone who read my log. I hope that you found it stimulating.
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