thyroid boosters

[primal1]

i need one for my cutting cycle. i noticed that t2 pro is using 3;5-diiodo-L-tyrosine in thier new formula. is this as strong as 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine?

 

[Sheesh]

You should Triax. Although it was pulled by the FDA, you can find it here..


http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=982

 

[DreamWeaver]

You can still find the original T2 around as well.

 

[pogue]

whats the difference between the two?

 

[Sir Foxx]

The Triax is no longer available, I bought it. It was my understanding that T2pro is actually really bad for your thyroid but I can't remember what the reason was. Anyone?

 

[labrad]

The Triax is no longer available, I bought it. It was my understanding that T2pro is actually really bad for your thyroid but I can't remember what the reason was. Anyone?

Supposedly, it can shut down your thyroid. Which is some serious sh*t. However, if you cycle it (4 week cycles) with equal time for recovery, it is supposed to be "safe". I just bought 2 bottles and will start Monday. I will tell you about it if I am alive.

 

[DreamWeaver]

T2 pro is just weak from what I have read it is the precursor of what T2 and Trix is. And yah you have to cycle it. (T2 that is)

Note: If you get a hold of the real T2 know that it is underdosed and the minimum dosage should be 2 pills twice daily. Compare the actual active ingredient to Triax and use that as your guide.

 

[PLer]

T2 is no good for the price, usually, but sometimes you can find really good deals on it around. SANN has the same thing in 100MCG instead of 50, it usually can be found for a better price per mcg than T2, I can't remember what they call it though.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Supposedly, it can shut down your thyroid.

Umm, no. That won't happen. Prolonged use will just make it harder for your natural metab to recover fully. Its not suppressed the way T3 will supress it.

 

[labrad]

Umm, no. That won't happen. Prolonged use will just make it harder for your natural metab to recover fully. Its not suppressed the way T3 will supress it.

Thanks Bro'.

 

[DawggieDawg69]

T2(orginal version) is great, but is under dosed so you must take 2 pills 3 times a day instead of 1 pill 3 times a day. You can also look into TRX which is not underdosed but the same thing.

 

[labrad]

Hey Dawggie Dawg, good to see you over here.

 

[DawggieDawg69]

Hey Dawggie Dawg, good to see you over here.

Yea, u too man..Ive heard a lot of good things about YJ thought that I would join this board consideirng he's allowed to post here unlinke that other board. And from what I gather so far this board is quite a bit better.

 

[labrad]

Yea, u too man..Ive heard a lot of good things about YJ thought that I would join this board consideirng he's allowed to post here unlinke that other board. And from what I gather so far this board is quite a bit better.

Now where did you ever here anything about YJ? Yeah, it's a good board. One last thing no flaming over here. Peace.

 

[YellowJacket]

One last thing no flaming over here. Peace.

Now I wouldnt go that far


Wheres the fun in no flaming??

 

[labrad]

Now I wouldnt go that far


Wheres the fun in no flaming??

I thought there was no flaming. What is exactly the rule. And where did I get that misinformation?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Well labrad you sort of correct in a way. We don't won't any drama as some other board contain. A little flaming between friends though is not a problem..I smoke YJ all the time!

 

[YellowJacket]

Well......no flaming is really needed (other than the occasional friendly jab). I dont think too many newbies will find their way here and post questions like elsewhere for the level of intelligence is enough to steer them away..... but if they have a honest question, Id prefer not to flame them, now if they insist on repetitive ignorance, mount up and torch their asses....

 

[labrad]

Gotcha.

 

[YellowJacket]

I smoke YJ all the time!

And with this statement, its obvious thats not all you smoke....

 

[jweave23]

Originally posted by Bobo
I smoke YJ all the time!

hahahahahahaha.......no comment

 

[DawggieDawg69]

Now where did you ever here anything about YJ?

Ive read, many of his posts before I became a member their, many of them were very informative. Ive also seen other ppl's posts about how they learned more from him then anyone.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

hahahahahahaha.......no comment

Example of how context kills.....

 

[John Benz]

i need one for my cutting cycle. i noticed that t2 pro is using 3;5-diiodo-L-tyrosine in thier new formula. is this as strong as 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine?

The original T2 contained 50mcg 3,5-diiodo-l-thyronine. This is an extremely potent thyroid regulator. The original T-2 was powerful stuff, and when I used it @ double their recommended dosage, I would sometimes wake up at 3 a.m. starved to death! T2-Pro it is nothing more than Coleus forskohlii + tyrosine . $50 may have been reasonable for the original T-2, but now it's just an extremely high priced thermogenic. Coleus forskohlii is okay. Tyrosine won't do much unless your diet is deficient.

Before you start a cycle of the original T2, you may want to get a check up by a doctor to be sure your thyroid is OK. If you decide to use the T2, I strongly suggest stacking it with an ECA thermogenic for better results. Start the ECA stack and build up to the recommended dosage. After a few weeks when your thyroid begins to get suppressed from cutting and thermogenics, ease into the three week cycle of the thyroid stimulator. Always make sure you check with your doctor first if you have a thyroid problem prior to using any thyroid stimulator and always use a pyramid stack.

One of the alleged differences between T2 and T3 is the fact that despite being (theoretically) nearly as effective as T3, T2 does not depress the thyroid to the same extent. Still, better safe than sorry. Thyroid disorders are not something to play around with and are not worth the risk when taking large doses of thyroid stimulators.


Here are some signs of Hyperthyroidism:

The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy
Section 2. Endocrine And Metabolic Disorders
Chapter 8. Thyroid Disorders

The clinical presentation of hyperthyroidism may be dramatic or subtle. Common signs and symptoms are goiter; tachycardia; widened pulse pressure; warm, fine, moist skin; tremor; eye signs (see below); atrial fibrillation; nervousness and increased activity; increased sweating; hypersensitivity to heat; palpitations; fatigue; increased appetite; weight loss; insomnia; weakness; and frequent bowel movements (occasionally diarrhea). Many symptoms of hyperthyroidism are similar to those of adrenergic excess. Older persons, particularly those with toxic nodular goiter, may present atypically with apathetic or masked hyperthyroidism (see Ch. 293).

-

 

[lovetoeat]

T2 does suppress your thyroid output similarly to T3, IMO if thyroid drugs are the route you want to take, educate yourself and use the more effective T3.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

T2 does suppress your thyroid output similarly to T3, IMO if thyroid drugs are the route you want to take, educate yourself and use the more effective T3.

No it does not. Suppression is not nearly as much as T3. Now the way they do it might be similar but comparing T3 to T2 is absurb. T3 suppression can be permanent. T2 cannot do this.

 

[lovetoeat]

No it does not. Suppression is not nearly as much as T3. Now the way they do it might be similar but comparing T3 to T2 is absurb.

I agree, comparing T3 and T2 is absurd as T2 gives just about the same thyroid suppression with out the fat loss results of T3, T3 is far and away the better choice.

Effect of 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine on thyroid stimulating hormone and growth hormone serum levels in hypothyroid rats.

Moreno M, Lombardi A, Lombardi P, Goglia F, Lanni A.

Dipartimento di Chimica, Facolta di Scienze, Universita degli Studi di Salerno, Italy.

We have investigated the biological effects of physiological doses of 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine (3,5-T2) and 3,3'-diiodo-L-thyronine (3,3'-T2) (at doses from 2.5 to 10 microg/100 g BW) on serum TSH and GH levels in rats made hypothyroid by propylthiouracil and iopanoic acid administration. In such animals deiodinase activities were inhibited and thyroid hormones serum levels strongly reduced. The effects of T2s were compared with those elicited by 3,5,3'-triiodo-L-thyronine (T3) (2.5 microg/100 g BW).The serum TSH level was much greater in hypothyroid rats than in euthyroid ones. T3 administration suppressed TSH by 88% compared to control (i.e, the level in hypothyroid rats); it thus reached a value not significantly different from that seen in the euthyroid rats. 3,5-T2 produced a similar effect, suppressing the TSH level by about 75% compared to control; it thus reached values not significantly different from those of the euthyroid and T3-treated rats. By contrast, 3,3'-T2 had no effect on TSH, whatever the dose. The serum GH level was much lower in hypothyroid rats than in euthyroid ones. T3 administration increased the GH level by about 5-fold, restoring it to the value seen in euthyroid rats. 3,5-T2-treated hypothyroid rats, at all the doses used (from 2.5 to 10 microg/100 g BW), showed increased serum GH levels: at a dose of 10 microg/100 g BW the level reached a value about 5-fold higher than that in hypothyroid rats. This value was not significantly different from those of euthyroid and T3-treated rats. 3,3'-T2 did not affect GH levels whatever the dose. Thus, 3,5-T2 (but not 3,3'-T2) seems to mimic the effects of T3 on serum TSH and GH levels in rats.

 

[lovetoeat]

J Endocrinol 1995 May;145(2):291-7 Related Articles, Links


3,5-Di-iodo-L-thyronine suppresses TSH in rats in vivo and in rat pituitary fragments in vitro.

Horst C, Harneit A, Seitz HJ, Rokos H.

Marion Merrell Dow Research Institute, Henning Berlin, Germany.

3,5-Di-iodo-L-thyronine (T2) is a naturally occurring metabolite of thyroxine (T4). Contrary to earlier findings, T2 has recently been shown to have rapid effects in rat liver and in mononuclear blood cells. In the experiments described here, T2 was tested to determine whether it has a TSH suppressive effect in rats in vivo and in rat pituitary fragments in vitro. In experiments over 2 weeks in rats in vivo, low doses of T2 (20-200 micrograms/100 g body weight per day) had no significant influence on body and organ weights, but significantly decreased TSh and T4 serum concentrations. At 200 micrograms/100 g per day, T2 suppressed TSH to 43% and T4 to 29% of control levels. At 1-15 micrograms/100 g per day, 3,5,3'-tri-iodo-L-thyronine (T3), used as a comparison to T2, had significant effects on TSH and T4 levels, and also on body weight. Fifteen micrograms T3/100 g per day decreased TSH to 44%, T4 to 25%, and body weight to 59% of control levels. In experiments over 3 months in rats in vivo, a low dose (25 micrograms/100 g per day) of T2 suppressed TSH to 60% and T4 to 57% of control levels and had no significant influence on other parameters. Conversely, 0.1 microgram/100 g per day T3 had significant effects on body and organ weights as well as pellet intake, but a less pronounced TSH suppressive effect: TSH concentrations were unchanged and T4 concentrations were down to 80% of control values.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

PMID: 7616162 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


As far as your comment about T3 permanently shutting down the thyroid, I'd like to see some evidence as I never have.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Only thing I have a prob is this could easily be another one of those wonder drugs that worked extremely well on rats, but not in humans, like Clenbuterol.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

J Endocrinol 1995 May;145(2):291-7 Related Articles, Links


3,5-Di-iodo-L-thyronine suppresses TSH in rats in vivo and in rat pituitary fragments in vitro.

Horst C, Harneit A, Seitz HJ, Rokos H.

Marion Merrell Dow Research Institute, Henning Berlin, Germany.

3,5-Di-iodo-L-thyronine (T2) is a naturally occurring metabolite of thyroxine (T4). Contrary to earlier findings, T2 has recently been shown to have rapid effects in rat liver and in mononuclear blood cells. In the experiments described here, T2 was tested to determine whether it has a TSH suppressive effect in rats in vivo and in rat pituitary fragments in vitro. In experiments over 2 weeks in rats in vivo, low doses of T2 (20-200 micrograms/100 g body weight per day) had no significant influence on body and organ weights, but significantly decreased TSh and T4 serum concentrations. At 200 micrograms/100 g per day, T2 suppressed TSH to 43% and T4 to 29% of control levels. At 1-15 micrograms/100 g per day, 3,5,3'-tri-iodo-L-thyronine (T3), used as a comparison to T2, had significant effects on TSH and T4 levels, and also on body weight. Fifteen micrograms T3/100 g per day decreased TSH to 44%, T4 to 25%, and body weight to 59% of control levels. In experiments over 3 months in rats in vivo, a low dose (25 micrograms/100 g per day) of T2 suppressed TSH to 60% and T4 to 57% of control levels and had no significant influence on other parameters. Conversely, 0.1 microgram/100 g per day T3 had significant effects on body and organ weights as well as pellet intake, but a less pronounced TSH suppressive effect: TSH concentrations were unchanged and T4 concentrations were down to 80% of control values.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

PMID: 7616162 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


I think the dosages are just a little different.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

J


As far as your comment about T3 permanently shutting down the thyroid, I'd like to see some evidence as I never have.

Talk that to Frank Zane. He has to take T3 for the rest of his life because of misuse earlier in his career.

 

[lovetoeat]

Only thing I have a prob is this could easily be another one of those wonder drugs that worked extremely well on rats, but not in humans, like Clenbuterol.

T3 is hardly a new discovery, it's been used successfully for fat loss for many years.

 

[lovetoeat]

Talk that to Frank Zane. He has to take T3 for the rest of his life because of misuse earlier in his career.

I remember reading somewhere, not sure where, offering a reward for anyone who could produce a study or case of someone who had permanently shut down their thyroid due to T3 use and no one could ever find anything. So at the very worst it would be safe to assume his case is rare if it was indeed T3 and not some pre-existing thyroid problem he had.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

T3 is hardly a new discovery, it's been used successfully for fat loss for many years.

I was referring to T2.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I remember reading somewhere, not sure where, offering a reward for anyone who could produce a study or case of someone who had permanently shut down their thyroid due to T3 use and no one could ever find anything. So at the very worst it would be safe to assume his case is rare if it was indeed T3 and not some pre-existing thyroid problem he had.

Well the fact that he does, and that its widly accepted that misuse can cause serious problems, is enough for me. Of crouse if you know what your doing and taper it correctly, you won't have adverse effects. The dosages in that study show the difference in potency.

 

[John Benz]

I agree, comparing T3 and T2 is absurd as T2 gives just about the same thyroid suppression with out the fat loss results of T3, T3 is far and away the better choice.

Effect of 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine on thyroid stimulating hormone and growth hormone serum levels in hypothyroid rats.

Moreno M, Lombardi A, Lombardi P, Goglia F, Lanni A.

Dipartimento di Chimica, Facolta di Scienze, Universita degli Studi di Salerno, Italy.

We have investigated the biological effects of physiological doses of 3,5-diiodo-L-thyronine (3,5-T2) and 3,3'-diiodo-L-thyronine (3,3'-T2) (at doses from 2.5 to 10 microg/100 g BW) on serum TSH and GH levels in rats made hypothyroid by propylthiouracil and iopanoic acid administration. In such animals deiodinase activities were inhibited and thyroid hormones serum levels strongly reduced. The effects of T2s were compared with those elicited by 3,5,3'-triiodo-L-thyronine (T3) (2.5 microg/100 g BW).The serum TSH level was much greater in hypothyroid rats than in euthyroid ones. T3 administration suppressed TSH by 88% compared to control (i.e, the level in hypothyroid rats); it thus reached a value not significantly different from that seen in the euthyroid rats. 3,5-T2 produced a similar effect, suppressing the TSH level by about 75% compared to control; it thus reached values not significantly different from those of the euthyroid and T3-treated rats. By contrast, 3,3'-T2 had no effect on TSH, whatever the dose. The serum GH level was much lower in hypothyroid rats than in euthyroid ones. T3 administration increased the GH level by about 5-fold, restoring it to the value seen in euthyroid rats. 3,5-T2-treated hypothyroid rats, at all the doses used (from 2.5 to 10 microg/100 g BW), showed increased serum GH levels: at a dose of 10 microg/100 g BW the level reached a value about 5-fold higher than that in hypothyroid rats. This value was not significantly different from those of euthyroid and T3-treated rats. 3,3'-T2 did not affect GH levels whatever the dose. Thus, 3,5-T2 (but not 3,3'-T2) seems to mimic the effects of T3 on serum TSH and GH levels in rats.

lovetoeat,

You are comparing apples to oranges. The dosage of 2.5 to 10 microg/100 g BW is the equivalent of giving a 200 lb human between 2264 and 9056 micrograms. The manufacturer only recommends 150 micrograms daily. AND lab rats have a different metabolic rate. So that test shows absolutely nothing of value. One more thing; is T-3 legal without a prescription?

 

[John Benz]

Talk that to Frank Zane. He has to take T3 for the rest of his life because of misuse earlier in his career.

Very interesting. That probably explains his very aged appearance. I always idolized Frank Zane, and now at 62, he looks much, much older than his contemporaries, like Robby Robinson and Dave Draper. And even Bill Pearl at 72 looks much younger than Frank. Even hormone supplementation, I suppose is not the same as natural test production as far as aging, etc.

 

[lovetoeat]

Nothing of value? That study shows T2 and T3 to have similar effects on the thyroid, opposing what was stated by bobo, yes it was done on rats but unfortunately this is the only info available. Whether they are high doses or not is insignificant, they used equally high doses with the T3 and T2, the conclusion is T2 shows similar suppression to T3.

No T3 is not a legal supplement but it was bobo who said T2 will not suppress you as does T3, I'm challenging that statement so if the discussion of T3 is not appropriate in this forum, it wasn't me who is to blame.

I've shown evidence for thinking the way I do but have yet to see you or bobo offer anything but opinion, where did this T2, T3 "theory" originate? Hopefully we're not taking the supplement manufacturers word for it.

 

[John Benz]

Nothing of value? That study shows T2 and T3 to have similar effects on the thyroid, opposing what was stated by bobo, yes it was done on rats but unfortunately this is the only info available. Whether they are high doses or not is insignificant, they used equally high doses with the T3 and T2, the conclusion is T2 shows similar suppression to T3.

No T3 is not a legal supplement but it was bobo who said T2 will not suppress you as does T3, I'm challenging that statement so if the discussion of T3 is not appropriate in this forum, it wasn't me who is to blame.

I've shown evidence for thinking the way I do but have yet to see you or bobo offer anything but opinion, where did this T2, T3 "theory" originate? Hopefully we're not taking the supplement manufacturers word for it.

This test is ONLY relevant on rats in which hyperthyroidism was induced and at a dosage level that would probably kill a human with slower metabolism. I should have said, "nothing of value pertaining to humans." I wasn't saying it was inappropriate, just I don't think these results are applicable in any way whatsoever to a human being without any thyroid problems. And the fact that one is legal and one is not makes the choice a simple one for many who refuse to bend the law.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Nothing of value? That study shows T2 and T3 to have similar effects on the thyroid, opposing what was stated by bobo, yes it was done on rats but unfortunately this is the only info available. Whether they are high doses or not is insignificant, they used equally high doses with the T3 and T2, the conclusion is T2 shows similar suppression to T3.

No T3 is not a legal supplement but it was bobo who said T2 will not suppress you as does T3, I'm challenging that statement so if the discussion of T3 is not appropriate in this forum, it wasn't me who is to blame.

I've shown evidence for thinking the way I do but have yet to see you or bobo offer anything but opinion, where did this T2, T3 "theory" originate? Hopefully we're not taking the supplement manufacturers word for it.

Dosages don't mean anything? Are you joking? Bro the dosage were 25mcg compared .1mcg!! And the test was done on euthyroid rats which means their hormone levels were not normal! You gave an attempt to refute what I said, but in no way is T2 comparable to the potency of T3. Comparing the two for human use is a joke.

 

[lovetoeat]

This test is ONLY relevant on rats in which hyperthyroidism was induced

Is this not what we are attempting when we supplement with T2 or T3, that boost in metabolism to increase fat loss.

I should have said, "nothing of value pertaining to humans." I wasn't saying it was inappropriate, just I don't think these results are applicable in any way whatsoever to a human being without any thyroid problems.

We know T3 is suppressive in humans, what reason do we have for believing T3 is but not T2, again I've posted evidence for thinking the way I do but still see nothing from you to refute it.

And the fact that one is legal and one is not makes the choice a simple one for many who refuse to bend the law.

If one doesn't wish to buy illegal drugs then sure give T2 a try, but it sure as hell isn't any more "safe".

BTW T2 can be found pretty cheap still, I think 1fast has this brand even cheaper.
http://bodybuilding.com/store/pbl/trx.html

 

[lovetoeat]

Dosages don't mean anything? Are you joking? Bro the dosage were 25mcg compared .1mcg!! And the test was done on euthyroid rats which means their hormone levels were not normal! You gave an attempt to refute what I said, but in no way is T2 comparable to the potency of T3. Comparing the two for human use is a joke.

We're not comparing rat doses to human doses here, mg for mg no T2 is not comparable to the potency of T3, I've never said that. The recommended dose of T2 and the dose that best results are seen at are a good bit different.

 

[lovetoeat]

I've posted evidence for thinking the way I do but still see nothing from you to refute it.

I would just like to repeat this once again as it keeps getting ignored.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

We're not comparing rat doses to human doses here, mg for mg no T2 is not comparable to the potency of T3, I've never said that. The recommended dose of T2 and the dose that best results are seen at are a good bit different.

You gave me a case study trying to prove they had the same effect. The dosages of t2 was 250x the dose of t3. I think that states the case about the potency and your attempt to link the two.

 

[lovetoeat]

Well the fact that he does, and that its widly accepted that misuse can cause serious problems, is enough for me.

Widely accepted by who? For some, including myself, we need a little more than "I heard it can cause problems".

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I would just like to repeat this once again as it keeps getting ignored.

We did. Your case study and attempt was proved irrelevant as the dosages were so far apart. The study was also conducted on euthyroid rats. Now if you don't see how that makes your study completely irrevelant pertaining to humans, then you fail to see the obvious.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Widely accepted by who? For some, including myself, we need a little more than "I heard it can cause problems".

Read Anabolics 2002. Thats one. You can deny it all you want and demand prooof to your blue in the face. Several pro bb'ers are feeling the effect now, including Frank Zane. If you don't want to believe it, then your jsut close minded.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

If one doesn't wish to buy illegal drugs then sure give T2 a try, but it sure as hell isn't any more "safe".

Ummm....yeah riiiiiiiiiight.

 

[lovetoeat]

You gave me a case study trying to prove they had the same effect. The dosages of t2 was 250x the dose of t3. I think that states the case about the potency and your attempt to link the two.

I think there is some confusion here, they used 2.5mcg of 3,5-T2(which is what is sold in stores) and 10mcg of 3,3-T2(essentially garbage with no known effects) to a equal dose of 2.5mcg of T3.

 

[lovetoeat]

Ummm....yeah riiiiiiiiiight.

Is this what your arguement has been reduced to, if so I surely won't waste my time.