Mysterious death of scared steroids user?

MAxximal

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Mysterious death of scared steroids user

Mysterious death of scared steroids user

We’ll probably never know exactly what happened to the 23 year-old bodybuilder who died in St Thomas’ Hospital in London. The doctors who tried to save his life wrote an article which will appear soon in Rheumatology International. However, the article raises more questions than it answers. Are there ‘bad’ steroids on the market? Was the bodybuilder experimenting with lethally dangerous substances? Or did he just have bad luck?


The bodybuilder was born in Sri Lanka, but lived in England and had not travelled anywhere where dangerous diseases are prevalent. The doctors therefore had no reason to suspect viruses or other pathogens when the man arrived at hospital showing pretty bizarre symptoms: he had a cold and the muscles in his upper legs and upper arms were losing strength rapidly. He had a raised creatine kinase level – 28519 U/L – indicating muscle damage. The doctors’ diagnosis was inflammation of the muscle fibre as a result of a heavy cold or flu, which had made the man’s immune cells attack his muscles. So the doctors gave the guy prednisolone and methyl prednisolone to suppress his immune cells.


After five days the bodybuilder’s creatine kinase level had gone down. He was released from hospital, only to return again three days later. By now he was even weaker and his creatine kinase level had risen to 52459 U/L. The doctors gave him methyl prednisolone injections again, but this time they didn’t help. The guy lost control over his body. When he could no longer talk, the doctors transferred him to intensive care, where they fought for his life for 37 days.


The bodybuilder’s creatine kinase level soared to 210,000 U/L. The doctors had to put him on a dialysis machine to fish the organic material from the decomposing muscle cells out of his blood; otherwise his kidneys would have been destroyed.


The man’s cold symptoms developed into an infection that caused his lungs to fill up with fluid. Breathing became difficult and pathogens developed in the fluid, which then entered the man’s bloodstream. The doctors gave the man breathing assistance, but this was hampered by a new complication. The bodybuilder’s abdomen started to swell. An exploratory operation revealed that the man had a severe stomach ulcer and that his gut wall had torn in some places. Faecal material had leaked into his body and was causing infections.


In the end the man died when his heart ceased to function. The doctors tried to reanimate him by operating, but were not successful. The post mortem revealed a heart defect which has been reported a number of times in relation to steroids users. The left ventricle of the bodybuilder’s heart was enlarged. Friends and family members reported that the deceased had grown considerably in the previous year, and that he had speculated about the effects that steroids might have on his body. Just before he died, the doctors did ask the man whether he had used steroids. He gave no reply, but asking the question “produced a severe stress response”, the doctors noted. The man was obviously scared. But what about? The answer remains a mystery.


In the absence of other unusual findings, the doctors concluded that steroids had caused inflammatory reactions that led to intensive muscle decomposition. Animal tests have shown that steroids can kill adult muscle cells. Maybe that’s what happened to the bodybuilder – as a result of hereditary characteristics? Or was it simply bad luck?


Steroids are useful, but if you use them carelessly they are dangerous, write the doctors. If bodybuilders are so set on using them they should be able to do so under medical supervision. Using products from a reliable manufacturer.


Source:
Rheumatol Int. 2009 Oct 27. [Epub ahead of print].
 
intheflesh

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That's pretty f*cked up. Shouldn't an autopsy be able to tell exactly what foreign substance the man had been injecting? I guess it had already been processed by his body.
 

JaredGalloway

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Sounds like the abuse of lots of orals over a long period of time... this is more common then people expect overseas... because d-bol, anadrol, and winny are usually cheaper than even buying protein powders...
 
CROWLER

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37 days in ICU

What a horrible way to die and at such a young age.
My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends.
 

Kevin R

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Sounds like he should have told the ****ing doctors what he was taking so they could treat him properly.
 

Irish Cannon

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Make the gear easier to acquire through legal means and maybe this type of stuff wouldn't happen nearly as often, if ever.
 
CROWLER

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I thought gear is legal in the UK isn't it?
 
Angel of Debt

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I wish you could just go to the doctors office at 25+ and get yourself a script for some sauce.

I really wonder how that would change our society.
everyone and their mother would be walking around sporting 20 inch guns probably.
 

Irish Cannon

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everyone and their mother would be walking around sporting 20 inch guns probably.
I don't know, man. You're still going to have people that don't give a crap about lifting. You're still going to have people that don't eat right...I think all around the guys would be less p*ssy, though.
 
CROWLER

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I don't know, man. You're still going to have people that don't give a crap about lifting. You're still going to have people that don't eat right...I think all around the guys would be less p*ssy, though.
I think you are exactly right. Some people just don't want to lift. In South America of course you can walk into a pharmacy and get quite a few different types of AAS but there doesn't seem to be that many big guys from what I have seen.
 
nomoredex

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I think you are exactly right. Some people just don't want to lift. In South America of course you can walk into a pharmacy and get quite a few different types of AAS but there doesn't seem to be that many big guys from what I have seen.
they wouldnt use their money on steroids, most people can barley afford to eat. there is a huge gap between the rich and poor in latin america
 
CROWLER

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Agreed there are a larger percentage of people in SA are below the poverty level .

BUT there are many millions in SA who can easily afford food as well as luxury items who choose not to lift weights nor buy AAS just as there is in North America.
 
nomoredex

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well you know it depends on the person and what their interests are. Their is not a large percentage of people looking to be bodybuliders and you will rarely see a gym in latin america.
 
CROWLER

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well you know it depends on the person and what their interests are. Their is not a large percentage of people looking to be bodybuliders and you will rarely see a gym in latin america.
There are thousands of gyms is South America. We sell our supplements to many gyms there. Every time I have been to SA it has been very easy to find a gym.

My two good friends are pro bodybuilders who came from South America and now live in the USA. The last Miami Bodybuilding championship had over 60% of the entrants from South America.

This thread is about a guy who died while taking PHs and if real AAS had been available would it have still happened.
 
nomoredex

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yes well im sure there are thousands of gyms
but the ratio per person is smaller then the united states.
yes,i agree steroids taken via injection are typically much safer then their oral counterparts.
I don't see why the government feels like it should make them schedule III controlled substances. I believe they should be treated more like alcohol. Give them a 21 age limit and the government can help regulate the quality if they want but thats it.
 
drivehard

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I wish you could just go to the doctors office at 25+ and get yourself a script for some sauce.

I really wonder how that would change our society.
I wish it was impossible to get the stuff, and everyone only got rewarded by hard work and diet.
 
MentalTwitch

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Agreed there are a larger percentage of people in SA are below the poverty level .

BUT there are many millions in SA who can easily afford food as well as luxury items who choose not to lift weights nor buy AAS just as there is in North America.
Zach Kahn i think his name is. Just hitting the US scene now BIG dude. Hes over on MD and you can see pics theres or just google the guy. He has a myspace too. Hes from SA if i recall correct.
 
dumbhick3

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I wish it was impossible to get the stuff, and everyone only got rewarded by hard work and diet.
A natural bodybuilder's perspective...and a legitimate one in the context of bodybuilding.

But from a medical perspective, legal, prescribed AAS (though under-prescribed and underdosed in the U.S.) have a definite place in medicine in sustaining and extended lives. Even Anavar/Oxandrin by itself or with an appetite stimulant like Marinol is a go-to combo for AIDS and cancer wasting syndromes. In both cases, weight, esp. lean mass are positively correlated with a prolonged survival rate.

There is one guy in "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" (a movie) who appeared to have a legally prescribed box of 10-12x10ml vials of deca or test in his hand and he was huge. He got HIV, then AIDS, then pneumonia and almost died with a T-cell count of 3. He recovered, heard about a UCLA study involving AAS and HIV/AIDS and signed up (years ago I think). Since he started using them, he went from AIDS status back to HIV status with a T-cell count in the 300+ range. The 20" guns were just a bonus I guess:).

They have numerous other medical uses such as healing skin ulcers (high concentration of Androgen receptors in the skin+increased mass), burn victims, trauma victims, excessive surgeries resulting in loss of muscle mass, and similar conditions that involve an unhealthy loss of mass. Even with these FDA-approved uses of oxan, I asked doctor after doctor about it and nobody knew much or wanted to do much (though I had no problem getting a monthly supply of CII Percocet every month for the skin ulcer pain). So I did my own thing and said the hell with the doctors and the Percocet.

The only problem (heh, scratch only) is that Oxandrolone is pretty much the only steroid that is FDA-approved for numerous uses. And it is a quality steroid, unless your liver is compromised to begin with. So for a doctor to currently prescribe deca, winstrol, anadrol (if you actually wanted it), halotestin (likewise), and even test for anything other than hypogonadism, delayed puberty onset, anemia, etc, they have to use those evil CIII steroids "off label". Hell, if they exceed the max recommended dose of oxandrolone (10mg bid/20mg a day), then it becomes off label usage as well. Off label use of RX drugs is common, but much less so with controlled substances. Morphine is more effective in lab rats for severe depression than prozac with the side effect of euphoria and physical dependence, but what doctor in his right mind would write that script? Depressed people tend to become addicted (not just clinical dependence) to abuseable drugs more easily than normal people too. The DEA would come a knocking in record time and rip that doctors medical license and DEA registration in half.:deal:

If they were more legally available and dispensed, one issue would be doctor shopping and the endless cycle. But people do that anyway already (the endless cycle part); I think that the medical community just wants no part in it. I think that their use in high school could possibly become rampant (where it isn't already) b/c just like the pros, if others are doing it, you have to if you want to "make the team" or stay competitive or "be the best". And if downgraded to "alcohol status", well, how hard was it to get alcohol in high school? Harder than getting good weed, but the latter was still quite obtainable, just not always onhand like alcohol. Bad weed (stress:grumpy:) was about equally easy to get as alcohol. Hell, alcohol was pretty easy to obtain in middle school, and bad weed too.

Basically, I think that doctors should be more liberal in their prescribing of steroids and take an extra course or two in med school about their risks, benefits, effects, etc. Most know little, don't want to know more, and they are further hampered by a prohibition in the 1991 anaboliic steroid act that prevents them from counseling athletes relative to steroids,etc (like they did for the Olympics every year prior for the last...well since steroids were isolated). So it is a gray area for doctors currently, which probably further decreases their interest in the subject.

And users for "atypical" purposes (bodybuilding) should have to take the equivalent of a firearms training course or two before they could legally obtain them; too many needle and pill happy morons already!

The person who said that orals are dirt cheap is absolutely right too. It takes a lot of research and procurement and discipline to get everything needed to do injectables correctly by yourself (and test, bold, and deca are arguably the safest ones around), and they cost a lot more, supplies and all. We live in the pop-a-pill day and age to boot, and why not, it is just so convenient (liver disagrees) and as cheap as an animal pack of vitamins for most of them.
 

brownstown89

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I wish it was impossible to get the stuff, and everyone only got rewarded by hard work and diet.
agreed man, i think if you read drivehard's post he trains heavy, he trains smart and its obvious he eats right. I honestly dont think i will ever do a steroid. I also wish powerlifting didnt have so much damn gear, i wish it was all raw shorts and t shirt. Wrist wraps knee wraps elbow wraps etc good but nothing else. I stick with food protien powders. Try to get only 100grams from protien powder rest from food and a preworkout thats it. dont wanna get into too many other things.
 
Mjolnir

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I wish people would stop pushing their 'moral' opinions on others.
In his defense he is not pushing anything onto anyone and it doesnt seem like its even a "moral" issue for him rather then the fact that he just thinks you only deserve it if you work hard for it.
 

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In his defense he is not pushing anything onto anyone and it doesnt seem like its even a "moral" issue for him rather then the fact that he just thinks you only deserve it if you work hard for it.
" I wish it was impossible to get the stuff " is an opinion, and given that it is not based on facts it is fair to assume it is motivated by morals. So yeah it reads as: If I had my way people would not be able to use these products because I do not believe in the usage of said products. What about lap band surgery? Plastic surgery? Hell what about compound interest? You don't work for all them either. Maybe anti-depressants for people who haven't tried meditation should be banned. After all how hard is it to be happy?
 

brownstown89

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" I wish it was impossible to get the stuff " is an opinion, and given that it is not based on facts it is fair to assume it is motivated by morals. So yeah it reads as: If I had my way people would not be able to use these products because I do not believe in the usage of said products. What about lap band surgery? Plastic surgery? Hell what about compound interest? You don't work for all them either. Maybe anti-depressants for people who haven't tried meditation should be banned. After all how hard is it to be happy?
ok big deal he stated his opinon if it offends you that much probably means deep inside yourself you dont believe its right either.
 
drivehard

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I wish people would stop pushing their 'moral' opinions on others.
Not a moral opinion at all...but I can understand how you might think that it is. I have no moral objection to any "drugs" if they are used right, and don't effect the people around you. If you use them to cheat, or use them to the point you effect your friends or family, then yes, I think it is wrong. Not from a "using a drug" perspective...but from a hurting your loved ones, and cheating perspective. Get it???

I agree with the use of these substances for TRUE medical use. For those folks who need these types of medications to live a happy, normal life...more power to them, and I wish them and their doctors the best of luck!!!

Here are why I wish these substances were not available to the general public:

If you are using these substances, and competing in bodybuilding, powerlifting, strongman, or any other sporting competition. It is of MY opinion that you are cheating. I hate working my arse off, and getting beat in a competition by someone who has put in less than half the time and effort and is juiced up. You might think this is a moral agenda...but indeed, it is a law. These substances are not legal even for horses and horse racing. They are not leagal in NCAA sports, football, baseball, powerlifting...so you are breaking the rules. If you don't think breaking the rules is cheating, and you are ok with that...then I guess I can see how you might think its a moral issue. I am of the assumption that all men operate with a few key virtues.

If you are using these substances, and hurting your body in a way that effects your friends or family, than I think its bad. Your friends and family care for you, and your own selfish needs are outweighing your responsibility to them. This is all about caring for those who care for you. Its no different if the drug were cocain, alcohol, fast food...whatever. If you are using it and hurting yourself to a point of hurting your loved ones...than its not right.

I am sick of being accused of taking stuff just because I have put in so much time and effort to look the way I do. Its an insult to me and my integrity. If it were impossible to get these substances, then instead of people accusing me of juicing up, they would be congratulating me on my hard work and dedication.

Finally...if you have no friends or family to hurt. You don't compete in anything, and you can't suck governement money, then by all means...juice up boys! Do whatever you want to your body...that is between you and God. I will not judge you.

I know people who use this stuff. They can still be my friend, and I judge them not on what they use. I judge them on their charector, and values alone. Will I respect their "gains" like I would the guys I lift with who are clean....nope, not as much. Sorry.
 
triton185

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Well, I have done a cycle of Test and had good results....using the stuff is addicting. I will just say this, there is a whole group of 20 somethings out there that are really screwing their bodies up. I know guys that have been "on" for years and never go off. First off, I do not like the way they look....just me personally. Second, they have fu*ked their body up. We will be reading in ten years about the explosion of steroid use and the health problems that they have caused BECAUSE as much as we on this board talk about using them responsibly and being educated...the fact is that the VAST MAJORITY of kids using this stuff now are NOT educated and stay on for long periods. For every 1 person that using steroids "resposibly and reasonably" there are 10 who do not and have no clue what the risks are. As for my own use, I sorta wish I had not because 95% of what I have acheived is from pure will power and sweat but as soon as the average person hears that I used steroids for a cycle, they say "aha, that's how he did it"....that does not sit well with me....I have worked my ass off and am happy with my progress. Just saying that it comes with a price....just depends on what is more important to the individual.....
 

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yes,i agree steroids taken via injection are quite safer then their oral counterparts.I don't see why the government feels like it should make them schedule III controlled substances. I believe they should be treated more like alcohol. Give them a 21 age limit and the government can help regulate the quality if they want but thats it.

by
 
AntonG42O

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i feel like the worst problem is the changes you make to your DNA by taking roids. people might say that PCT will bring you back to normal blah blah but I say thats BS. by stimulating your glands and organs in such an extreme way you are definitely making changes to your genetic composition. defend the juice all you want brothers, lets have this conversation again in 20 years.
 
kingdong

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i feel like the worst problem is the changes you make to your DNA by taking roids. people might say that PCT will bring you back to normal blah blah but I say thats BS. by stimulating your glands and organs in such an extreme way you are definitely making changes to your genetic composition. defend the juice all you want brothers, lets have this conversation again in 20 years.
Ya, when people take these roids that arn't quite testosterone, but something a little different, we are entering a scary new territory, that just doesn't have long term research. Who knows if things like tren will help people make it to tha agerage life expectency of 76? Nobody knows.
 
AntonG42O

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Ya, when people take these roids that arn't quite testosterone, but something a little different, we are entering a scary new territory, that just doesn't have long term research. Who knows if things like tren will help people make it to tha agerage life expectency of 76? Nobody knows.
oh dude I know, injecting synthetic compounds into muscle tissue. there is a reason why humans evolved into the species they are now, you start messing with your DNA and all kinds of whack $hit is gonna happen. no offense to anyone using roids, just please mind the consequences.
 
kingdong

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In complete fairness, I think this thread is more about orals, which are actually worse.
 
elabor

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oh dude I know, injecting synthetic compounds into muscle tissue. there is a reason why humans evolved into the species they are now, you start messing with your DNA and all kinds of whack $hit is gonna happen. no offense to anyone using roids, just please mind the consequences.
Are you just assuming anabolics alter your DNA? Where did you come up with this idea? By the way, sunlight also alters our DNA. Better put on sunblock. Oh wait, sunblock may also alter our DNA :bigok:

But seriously, I love reading. Post some research. Or just clarify your logic. Thanks!
 
dumbhick3

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All anabolic steroids, including testosterone, activate oncogenes to varying degrees (genes that are associated with cancer-oncologoist-onco; claro?). IGF-1 strains do this even faster.

You might say, well, testosterone is made by the male body naturally, so it is excluded. But it isn't; nor is DHT, androstenediol, and androstenedione, all of which are endogenous hormones for males and which can be administered exogenously for varying degrees of anabolic effect. Prostate cancer is a pretty common form of cancer in men who don't use steroids; actually I think it is #1 in non-smoking adult males. Certainly, taking more exogenous test could accelerate the process of DHT affecting the prostate, but you could throw in some finasteride or dutasteride to help with that.

Doctors also use steroids in some cancer patients to help them gain wait and prolong their survival (for some of them, mass=length of days). You could hit by a car tomorrow. Does that mean that you should live life like a moron and go jump in front of a car tomorrow? Your call. There are plenty of bodybuilders that have been doing AAS their whole life (20+ years) and are still alive and kicking. Wrestlers don't do so well because they are all on endless cycles. Lou Alzado blamed steroids for his brain tumor, but it was determined after his death that steroids were not the cause. Though they activate oncogenes, there hasn't been any real cases to date where cancer was the clear-cut result of steroid use (that I know of). Sure, it could happen. But ~50% of all men will get cancer at some point in their life (could be major or minor), and not all men use steroids. Some won't have the opportunity to get cancer b/c they might die on a battlefield, get hit by a drunk, etc.

Deaths due to heart and organ enlargement, usually due to the endless cycle, yes. The organ enlargement from AAS usually rebounds off cycle to some extent if not completely. A lot of the heart enlargement and kidney damage is caused by uncontrolled high BP when using steroids like trenbolone, dienolone, etc, and is completely preventable in that sense (hawthorne berries-eat up).

I use to surf and even on days that I wore sunscreen, the wax on the board rips it off along with the salt water. And that UV light damages DNA, starts the oncological processes in motion, and causes sometimes fatal skin cancers that may not manifest for 20-25 years. You could take the dermatologist's stance and be pasty white, wear a hat outdoors + sunscreen when going to the grocery store, etc...and still get hit by a car on the way out:). Again, I am not being fatalistic, but we take risks every day-driving, driving worse than usual, any winter sports (ouch...), etc. So really, I could die 10 years from now from surfing 15 years ago.

Ethanol is also carcinogenic, esp. to the eso****us and stomach, due to its strong cell-destroying actions among other things. It can also cause gyno due to reduced test levels in chronic users. Usually alcoholics are the only ones who would be high risk for this, but combine smoking and drinking and your risk of eso****eal cancer goes up substantially and much greater than the sum of the parts. Moderation seems to be the key here.

So what am I saying? It is a risk/benefit assessment for informed users when it comes to steroids. Uninformed users use steroids at their own peril and have a greater risk of deleterious effects than the former group, but there are always risks.

Smart, educated users mitigate these risks to the fullest extent possible and tend to do quite well in general.

Not so smart users, esp. with the orals, don't fare so well. Like one guy who took Superdrol for 3 months straight at 30mg/day and ended up nearly dying from jaundice (not exactly a surprise...3 months on a dimethylated oral???). I actually saw the bloodwork online; his ASTand ALT were both 400-500 (normal range 10-40, 0-40) and his bilirubin was ~50 (normal max of range ~5). He is lucky that he lived; some others did not.

Just my personal $.02.
 
nparisi

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lol i love how the p h a g in eso p h a gus is censored
 
OZjames007

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whilst i agree with the last 2 posts... i do believe that whilst using gear you still need to put in vasts amount of dedication and apply yourself entirely to see good long term results...

i have been affected by one friend who had impressive gains from his work plus short cycle.. now how i am suppossed to compete in my given area when a vast amount of people are on some kind of "supplement/cycle" Its near impossible to be competitive..

Since their is no way to police it really.. its just a matter of time before more people turn to the pin!

apart from that. I think its up to the individual to know what they are getting themselves into.. Its not the gov's fault or society.. its their parents for not teaching them any better.. dont just take things for granted.. knowledge is power!
 
AntonG42O

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Are you just assuming anabolics alter your DNA? Where did you come up with this idea? By the way, sunlight also alters our DNA. Better put on sunblock. Oh wait, sunblock may also alter our DNA :bigok:

But seriously, I love reading. Post some research. Or just clarify your logic. Thanks!
just using common sense. there is a reason why you produce a certain amount of testosterone, estrogen, GH. the body is programmed to act a certain way to continue to exist. there is a certain flow to each process. this isnt exactly a car you are adding upgrades to, this is a finely tuned organism that is designed to do what it does. then you go and jack your testosterone and other hormone levels up and down with lab designed/alien to the body chemicals. then you throw more chemicals in your blood stream and tissue to try to whack it all back to normal..then hope for best. If thats not the most unnatural thing to do to your body then i dont know what is.

UV rays werent destroying everyone's skin back in the day. the way we polluted this planet made our atmosphere less effective at protecting us and prone to problems. kinda the same way when you take roids, the little things you might not notice right away..they change.

but all power to you brother. if taking them makes you happy then i say do it. im just playing the devils advocate because I hate seeing people phuck themselves up , especially young high school kids, which is becoming a trend these days. perhaps some steroids have a place in medicine for underdeveloped or extremely weak patients but i personally dont see a good use for everyone else.
 
dumbhick3

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just using common sense. there is a reason why you produce a certain amount of testosterone, estrogen, GH. the body is programmed to act a certain way to continue to exist. there is a certain flow to each process. this isnt exactly a car you are adding upgrades to, this is a finely tuned organism that is designed to do what it does. then you go and jack your testosterone and other hormone levels up and down with lab designed/alien to the body chemicals. then you throw more chemicals in your blood stream and tissue to try to whack it all back to normal..then hope for best. If thats not the most unnatural thing to do to your body then i dont know what is.

UV rays werent destroying everyone's skin back in the day. the way we polluted this planet made our atmosphere less effective at protecting us and prone to problems. kinda the same way when you take roids, the little things you might not notice right away..they change.

but all power to you brother. if taking them makes you happy then i say do it. im just playing the devils advocate because I hate seeing people phuck themselves up , especially young high school kids, which is becoming a trend these days. perhaps some steroids have a place in medicine for underdeveloped or extremely weak patients but i personally dont see a good use for everyone else.
Chemotherapy and radiation therapy are probably the most unnatural things to do to your body, medically speaking. They are essential therapies for cancer, but secondary malignancies (cancer) can and do form from radiation therapy and chemo, and chemo drugs non-selectively attack all cells in the body. That is why my Mom has "chemo brain" and very little short term memory and osteoporosis-like bones, but it prolonged her life. Steroids prolong life in many medical instances. Steroids when abused (not used; abused) and any stupid behavior patterns can shorten life.

I recently stopped taking chronic opioid therapy. Opioids are considered very safe when used properly and are a mainstay of modern medicine though the use of opium for medical purposes is thousands of years old. Opioids essentially act as neurotransmitters and even hormones in the body. Chronic use is associated with lowered testosterone levels and LH levels. Virtually every RX and many non-RX drugs have profound effects on the body. I have heartburn; I take a proton pump inhibitor. Is it natural to stop the stomach from producing acid? No. Does it keep me from puking up stomach acid? Yes.

Things aren't as black and white as your post suggests.

Steroids are easily one of the most contentious subjects though because of performance-enhancement use. You should watch "Bigger, stronger, faster" if you haven't. A great, objective movie about performance enhancement in general.

Professional orchestra members rampantly abuse beta-blockers so that they can maintain focus and dexterity under maximum adrenaline circumstances. One guy said he is taking so much beta blockers that his BP and pulse don't move a twinge even in LA traffic. Doctors prescribe them no questions asked for the nervousness that they present in the office. But this is cleary drug abuse/misuse isn't it? Or is it?

Glucocorticoids (prednisone, etc) are also steroids and are used commonly by atheletes and others for inflammation. They are more toxic than anabolic steroids. They also act as performance enhancers by allowing athletes to continue on in a playoff series, etc. Shot of cortisone; able to play again. Pretty unnatural from your perspective, but well-accepted within the medical community.

Estrogen is another steroid in male physiology and though not anabolic, high amounts can contribute to breast cancer, though it normally does more so in women. Post-menstrual women take estrogen replacement drugs which very clearly say that there is an increased risk of stroke, blood clot, and female-type cancers (breast, etc) in the monogram. Risk of that versus severe, chronic hotflashes and moodiness. No wonder women take this drugs. Then there is legitimate hormone replacement therapy in men.

Tiger Woods had surgery on his eyes (20/20 vision) to improve them to 20/15 vision to help his long game. A potential risk? Irreversible eye damage all the way up to loss of vision. Performance enhancement? Absolutely. Did he get in trouble for it? No. The list is endless.

Us "polluting the planet" has nothing to do with the amount of UV radiation we are exposed to while say surfing. BTW, the "hole" (a misnomer) in the ozone layer above the antarctic predates the use of freon (that infamous CFC that was blamed for causing the "hole") which only started being used in cars in the 1950's (that "hole" is MUCH older). And where the ozone layer is thicker, say in most of the U.S., well, the dots between that and increased UV exposure just don't connect. I used to watch the weather every day to decide to go surfing or not and when the sky was brightest (not partly cloudy, etc), the UV index was usually at its highest (10). If the surf was good, I went anyway. This is another contentious issue, I know. i think that global warming is absolute non-sense pushed by power-hungry, ill-educated environmental zealots, including a somewhat recent vice president and presidential candidate who lost in the re-count.
 
AntonG42O

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well what are you really defending? a right to use every type of steroids? you already have that, its just tough to buy sometimes. I did not dismiss how valuable steroids are to the patients that need them, the case here is a lunatic "bodybuilder" who killed himself with juice. I absolutely agree that if you need to use steroids for a medical application and you are OK with the side effects then go for it. The point I was making is that they all leave a permanent mark. Whether its the nose spray or a bottle of dbol, these things are affecting every cell in your body through the blood stream. So if the benefit outweighs the cost in your particular medical case, then no one can tell you not to use them.

Its just that when it comes to juicing for regular guys I think it is idiotic. I am not self righteous and I cant tell you that juicing is right or wrong, just look at the picture: you got guys who are so insecure sitting there in front of the mirror, spending thousands of dollars on suspect mexican steroids, shooting themselves with needles, messing with hormones. It looks to me just like another trend. I dont have great genetics but I was able to gain 30 something pounds over a few years, making me look just like I wanted to and making me effective for my sport. This didnt take any extreme measures, no blood work, no late night mirror staring sessions, no self education on anabolics and PCT and gyno and all that stupid $hit. It just looks so retarded to me, almost like girls who buy into fashion hype and spend all their money on new super expensive popular stuff. Instead here we got guys spending a ton of money to hopefully gain and retain some muscle. At what point do you draw the line when it comes to self improvement?
Then there is the old arguement, "i maxed out my physical capabilities and now Im gonna juice because thats the only way to get any bigger/better at this point". How do you even know that you are maxed out? There is no specific limit to how big/strong you are going to get, the more work you put in the greater the result.

once again this is just my opinion. if it makes you complete then juice all you want. in your case if medical steroids makes your condition better then by all means do it. im just sick of hearing about how safe these things are because everyone knows a guy who did a cycle and he is doing great. I just hope everyone who does this understands the consequences.
 
dumbhick3

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I'm not really defending anybody or any particular stance; I am just describing two sides of a coin. I am pro-freedom I guess, but freedom demands personal responsibility for one's decisions as you allude to.

Are you a boxer (your sport; looking at your avatar)? If so, (A) I love boxing (watching it), and (B) steroid use is rampant in boxing, esp. at the pro level, like most other sports (maybe more so in boxing, along with MMA). So if you are a boxer and have been able to succeed in boxing naturally, I applaud you.

I think you hit a nail on the head with your comment about people basically being more insecure and vain and male figure-oriented nowadays. It's like these two jackasses I used to see in the gym in college. They would talk loudly about their cycles and work out for 2+ hours at a time and still be putting up 245 on military press and supersetting it with something else absurd and not easily done naturally. I called one of them Ton-Ton (not to his face-he was huge) b/c he looked like a moron and he would stand in front of the mirrors in the gym and flex his biceps and smile (goofy grin) at himself.

It's apparent that more and more bodybuilders and males in general are in love with their own body nowadays than anything else. Steroids certainly speed up the process of muscle development when used correctly, but I think that overuse also results in a perpetual disatisfaction with one's current body-state. The never enough syndrome is one of the reasons people get addicted to steroids. This is much less of an issue with natural bodybuilding, although anyone can be very insecure and never satisfied with their body. And no drug or amount of weight lifting is going to cure that-maybe some Prozac will help (etc).

I hope I didn't imply that steroids were safe and risk free. Few things in life are, and steroids are no exception.
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This is another good reason to watch that movie I mentioned; not only is it hilarious, you do get to see both sides of the steroid equation, and performance enhancement in a general sense. It follows three brothers who all start out in life small, fat, skinny, etc, and watching WWF and the Hulkster talking about eating your vegetables to get big like him (LOL). It shows the Hulkster getting arrested with a boatload of steroids too. It doesn't forget about Arnold, Stallone, or Valentino either (28" bicep man). Greg Valentino is interesting b/c he has no illusions about the fact that his arms look disguisting (like a crumpled garbage can or basketball) and he said that girls don't run up to him when he goes out-only the guys do!!! He is also eating a plate of T-bone steaks like chicken wings (holding them by the bone and gnawing the meat off) during part of the interview!

The first brother is a powerlifter who has been using for a long time with no issues other than a promise to his beautiful wife to quit after their 2nd child is born. Being psychologically dependent though, he mentions later that he will start back at some point. He benches 702lbs at the end, his major goal at the time, but sure enough, it is isn't enough.

The third brother was in the WWF briefly and has been using most of his life and while no physical health problems, he is an emotional wreck when his brother asks him some deep questions away from his family. And he has a gorgeous wife and a kid, and even the wife and his marriage are being damaged by his continued use of steroids. Again, psychologically dependent and unable to stop even though he knows that he is putting his wife through his crap and she still is by his side. So these two brothers are kind of at opposite ends of the spectrum of steroid dependence. The emotional wreck one still has WWF-WWE return-to aspirations, and it shows him wrestling for $50 in a latin american gym/audience. Neither knows when to say when, and the effects vary in both cases.

The middle brother is the narrator who also goes around and talks to various people-his family, Jim Waxman-the guy who chaired the subcommittee for the MLB steroid scandal, Arnold as governor, Valentino, doctors, magazine editors (hilarious-the hydroxycut guys-photoshop+steroids; not too surprising, but he is so non-chalant about it that it is funny), and the emotional guy at the steroid hearings who won the senators and reps over single-handedly and blamed his son's suicide on steroids when in fact just a few weeks prior his son was given a prescription for an SSRI (Prozac, etc) which has definitely been linked to an increased risk of suicide, etc (steroids have not been linked to an increased risk of suicide).

Now, steroid use by high schoolers is obviously a terrible and stupid thing. But some schools have coaches (grade school!) that distribute steroids to the entire team. My old roommate went to one such high school and that was in the 90's. Everything we see on TV, in magazines, even in news stories that use phrases like "the DOW skyrocketed like it was on steroids today", etc all contribute to people's perception of what the norm is (which isn't normal at all). But not everyone cares about or is heavily influenced by steroid "propaganda", though it seems to be increasing.

Anyway, the middle brother admits to using steroids once in his life only; his body and life of working out daily agree with that. Also, he tells his Mom and Dad for the first time in his life that he used IM winny once (one cycle) in his life, but he never did it again because he felt guilty and like he was cheating. His two brothers are there at the table when he tells the parents, and they are both suspiciously silent during the steroid talk.
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If you are able to not use steroids (if you can resist the urge or have no real reason to and can live with that), then that is the route you should take (IMO). If you have decided that you have reasons for using them (maybe legit, maybe not), then nothing is going to stop you from using them short of not having a hookup or the cash or taking a trip to jail or the hospital or the morgue, and those problems often don't stop said ppl anyway (except the morgue; Valentino went to prison; do you think he quit?). So there is little point in preaching the woes of steroids to people who have already made up their mind-you -might- "get thru to them", but probably not. The best thing in the latter case (IMO) is to provide quality information for people to make their own, informed decisions about what they are contemplating doing to their body, and the associated good and bad effects (steroids obviously aren't a free lunch). And that is where I see things like this forum coming into play.
 
kingdong

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All anabolic steroids, including testosterone, activate oncogenes to varying degrees (genes that are associated with cancer-oncologoist-onco; claro?). IGF-1 strains do this even faster.

You might say, well, testosterone is made by the male body naturally, so it is excluded. But it isn't; nor is DHT, androstenediol, and androstenedione, all of which are endogenous hormones for males and which can be administered exogenously for varying degrees of anabolic effect. Prostate cancer is a pretty common form of cancer in men who don't use steroids; actually I think it is #1 in non-smoking adult males. Certainly, taking more exogenous test could accelerate the process of DHT affecting the prostate, but you could throw in some finasteride or dutasteride to help with that.

Doctors also use steroids in some cancer patients to help them gain wait and prolong their survival (for some of them, mass=length of days). You could hit by a car tomorrow. Does that mean that you should live life like a moron and go jump in front of a car tomorrow? Your call. There are plenty of bodybuilders that have been doing AAS their whole life (20+ years) and are still alive and kicking. Wrestlers don't do so well because they are all on endless cycles. Lou Alzado blamed steroids for his brain tumor, but it was determined after his death that steroids were not the cause. Though they activate oncogenes, there hasn't been any real cases to date where cancer was the clear-cut result of steroid use (that I know of). Sure, it could happen. But ~50% of all men will get cancer at some point in their life (could be major or minor), and not all men use steroids. Some won't have the opportunity to get cancer b/c they might die on a battlefield, get hit by a drunk, etc.

Deaths due to heart and organ enlargement, usually due to the endless cycle, yes. The organ enlargement from AAS usually rebounds off cycle to some extent if not completely. A lot of the heart enlargement and kidney damage is caused by uncontrolled high BP when using steroids like trenbolone, dienolone, etc, and is completely preventable in that sense (hawthorne berries-eat up).

I use to surf and even on days that I wore sunscreen, the wax on the board rips it off along with the salt water. And that UV light damages DNA, starts the oncological processes in motion, and causes sometimes fatal skin cancers that may not manifest for 20-25 years. You could take the dermatologist's stance and be pasty white, wear a hat outdoors + sunscreen when going to the grocery store, etc...and still get hit by a car on the way out:). Again, I am not being fatalistic, but we take risks every day-driving, driving worse than usual, any winter sports (ouch...), etc. So really, I could die 10 years from now from surfing 15 years ago.

Ethanol is also carcinogenic, esp. to the eso****us and stomach, due to its strong cell-destroying actions among other things. It can also cause gyno due to reduced test levels in chronic users. Usually alcoholics are the only ones who would be high risk for this, but combine smoking and drinking and your risk of eso****eal cancer goes up substantially and much greater than the sum of the parts. Moderation seems to be the key here.

So what am I saying? It is a risk/benefit assessment for informed users when it comes to steroids. Uninformed users use steroids at their own peril and have a greater risk of deleterious effects than the former group, but there are always risks.

Smart, educated users mitigate these risks to the fullest extent possible and tend to do quite well in general.

Not so smart users, esp. with the orals, don't fare so well. Like one guy who took Superdrol for 3 months straight at 30mg/day and ended up nearly dying from jaundice (not exactly a surprise...3 months on a dimethylated oral???). I actually saw the bloodwork online; his ASTand ALT were both 400-500 (normal range 10-40, 0-40) and his bilirubin was ~50 (normal max of range ~5). He is lucky that he lived; some others did not.

Just my personal $.02.
Oh, I never said that extra test was safe. I'm just saying that this new stuff is a scary territory, that we won't know the consequences of for a long while.
 
dumbhick3

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The test in your own body contributes to prostate enlargement and cancer in many cases I imagine-it just takes longer perhaps (similar to estrogen-responsive breast cancer in women). Exogenous test would at worst speed up the process IMO. For women, exogenous estrogen can do the same thing (Premarin for post-menstration, etc) I think. Also, exogenous test when used for HRT to bring hypogonadic men up to the normal range seems healthy and even necessary and it is exogenous. So it becomes either a philosophical issue or a "is your test level in the 300-1000ng/ml range?" question.

In either Lewellyn's or Roberts' book on anabolics/anabolic pharmacology, one of them seems to be of the opinion that testosterone, nandrolone, and boldenone are probably the three safest steroids in existence. Test and nandrolone are used a good bit medically. Boldenone is vet and UG labs only, but the compound itself is quite mild on the body. So I would agree with this assessment. Steroids like trenbolone are much harsher on the body though they are still very popular (results).

I won't argue that popping Anadrol 50's is good for your health:), though it is still available for medical use in the U.S. and used for anemia (though no one steroid has actually been proven superior over another in increasing RBC production). Winstrol really isn't that great for you either-harsh on the lipids, liver, and joints. But some people really love it, the injectable version especially. And the pills are still produced for medical use in the U.S., but I don't know what the hell a doctor would prescribe it for (I know what it is used for, but I forget). Almost equi-toxic to Anadrol is the much drier and less anabolic Halotestin-very harsh on the liver and extremely androgenic (a few times that of test I believe) and still used medically for delayed onset puberty (imagine a 13 year old on fluoxymesterolone for medical reasons-his balls would drop quickly!). Proviron is still used medically for infertility, but I imagine it is rarely prescribed anymore. This is probably the only medically available oral steroid that I would even consider using (well, maybe winstrol). Oh, I forgot about Anavar-it is probably among the safest if not the safest oral methylated anabolic steroid. It is used for lots of stuff medically and due to partial kidney metabolism, the strain is less on the liver and can be very low until the dose is increased to about twice the RX max. I would take it too if I were interested.

I am reluctant to take of some things that I even own such as Superdrol and Dimethazine; they just seem too much like M1T in terms of harshness and trouble keeping the weight gains. In that respect, I completely agree about the new stuff. Most of the hard data is coming from hospital blood work records on the internet-not good IOW. It doesn't help when the innovators of a product like superdrol tout it as side effect free. That is absolute BS-every medication/chemical under the sun has side effects, usually dose-dependent. They may be good, neutral, or bad, and severe or mild, but they are there. That was just an especially stupid claim to make with superdrol since it is dimethylated. I was an M1T guinea pig and it was touted the same way when it came out but now most people won't touch the stuff and for good reason.
 

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