Whats best? Clen or ECA?

[panther77]

Hey guys I was just wondering which would be better for a cut... also if i chose ECA could i stack with dermatherm target?

 

[ktatro1]

Clen is stronger. Also, if you buy liquid clen, you can mix it into your carrier of dermatherm and apply it topically. This way you will not run into any of the systemic sides of clen, yet receive all the fat burning benefits locally.

 

[panther77]

how much stronger are we talking?

 

[loki515]

wow I didn't know you can take liq clen and turn it into a topical cream ( i guess your saying) that sounds interesting and especially if it dosen't produce sides. that's awesome.

and excuse my ignorance a "dermatherm" ??? regular lotion? seriously I'm lost on that one.

 

[ktatro1]

how much stronger are we talking?

Sorry Panther it took so long...well lets put it this way, the typical amount of ephedrine in a single dose ranges from 20-25mg. Typical dose of clen is 20mcg. Haven't tried it myself but from what i've heard clen's sides are apparently like ephedrine's on crack.

 

[jakellpet]

you're other option is T3

 

[xx Zues xx]

Clen is stronger. Also, if you buy liquid clen, you can mix it into your carrier of dermatherm and apply it topically. This way you will not run into any of the systemic sides of clen, yet receive all the fat burning benefits locally.

Is it true Clen elicits anabolic properties ktatro?

 

[soontobbeast]

taking clen is like being on ECA 24 hrs a day.

they burn fat via the same pathways. the good thing about ECA is it leaves your body, therefore you can sleep. also you don't have constant stress on your body.

also, your body gets adapted to clen really fast and the results taper off after 2 weeks.

 

[Rodja]

Is it true Clen elicits anabolic properties ktatro?

If you're a horse. Clen's T 1/2 is ~36 hours, which is why it fatigues the receptors in the body. Also, this is what makes it more dangerous.

For example, if you take 100mcg a day, by the 7th day, you have ~193 mcg of clen in your system.

 

[AK32408]

In comparison... 2,4-Dinitrophenol (DNP) makes Clen seem like a mild caffeinated drink.

But ya, you can add liquid clen to a topical fat burner like Napalm to make it stronger.

 

[soontobbeast]

In comparison... 2,4-Dinitrophenol (DNP) makes Clen seem like a mild caffeinated drink.

But ya, you can add liquid clen to a topical fat burner like Napalm to make it stronger.

DNP isn't a stimulant.

 

[ktatro1]

No but DNP will cleave fat off your body like an axe, only problem is it pulls your liver out right along with everything else.

 

[ktatro1]

Is it true Clen elicits anabolic properties ktatro?

It was originally thought to be so, and even the NCAA ban list has clenbuterol listed under "Other anabolic agents banned". However if I remember the studies correctly it elicited anabolic properties in other animals, not humans. On an interesting and related side note, I did read about a method that used clen to help the body release greater amounts of serum creatine kinase. Here's the article:

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/dharkam/clenbuterol-and-muscle-growth.htm

Let it be understood that I am in no way condoning this, nor do I know if it works. Should you choose to do this let it be at your own risk.

 

[jsp0785]

clen isn't worth it. ECA will work very well with a good diet and u don't need the asprin part with it. clen having a 24 hour half life really isn't all that great for u. not to mention it makes it impossible to work out because u get completely out of breath in like 5 minutes. stay with EC, no point in clen unless ur going with clen/t3 and cutting for a bodybuilding contest.

if u do decide to go clen u can run it for 2 weeks on 2 weeks off cycle or go more than 2 weeks but ur going to need to take bendryl at night during the later part of the 2nd and through the 3rd week. i wouldn't stay on it for 4. some people do 2 weeks clen, 2 weeks ephedrine, 2 weeks clen. oh and if u have trouble getting mr. willy hard its because of the clen

 

[jsp0785]

In comparison... 2,4-Dinitrophenol (DNP) makes Clen seem like a mild caffeinated drink.

But ya, you can add liquid clen to a topical fat burner like Napalm to make it stronger.

i think clen is a little easier to find that DNP

 

[AK32408]

I like how there is a big "INTERESTED IN CLENBUTEROL ?" ad now on this thread.

:lol:

 

[jsp0785]

I like how there is a big "INTERESTED IN CLENBUTEROL ?" ad now on this thread.

:lol:

haha yea i noticed that too like u can just go and buy clen somewhere

 

[Rodja]

haha yea i noticed that too like u can just go and buy clen somewhere

You can if you know where to look...:afro:

 

[WilteredFire]

Ive ran a 1 month cycle with some fibrates on a slightly dirty bulk, helped me to pack on some size without putting on any fat. Supposed to be better then Sesamin, works pretty much the same way but stronger then sesamin.

Would be interesting to see more discussions about this. Gonna be running another month of this on an all out lean bulk just after next from sometime in September. Got it from holiday in the east Asia, so bought 5 1month cycles worth of it

A good fat burner, supposed to be second to DNP if im not wrong in terms of strength, i used the fibrate called Gemz if anybody needs to know

 

[jsp0785]

You can if you know where to look...:afro:

yea, i've got a whole bottle laying around that i'm probably never going to use

 

[jsp0785]

Ive ran a 1 month cycle with some fibrates on a slightly dirty bulk, helped me to pack on some size without putting on any fat. Supposed to be better then Sesamin, works pretty much the same way but stronger then sesamin.

Would be interesting to see more discussions about this. Gonna be running another month of this on an all out lean bulk just after next from sometime in September. Got it from holiday in the east Asia, so bought 5 1month cycles worth of it

A good fat burner, supposed to be second to DNP if im not wrong in terms of strength, i used the fibrate called Gemz if anybody needs to know

a cholesterol lowering drug for weight loss? i don't see that being anywhere near as strong as DNP

 

[jsp0785]

also nobody ever talks about it but something on par with clen as far as cranking up metabolism is albuterol. only thing i've ever taken that gives enhanced performance in the gym and the ability to make cardio enjoyable. only a 6-8 hour half life unlike clen so it can be taken for longer periods without beta 2 receptors downgrading as fast. and like with clen throw some benedryl in for the last week or so

 

[bmw8591]

If you go the EC route, you could try ECAY (alpha yohimbine aka alpha burn). I'm loving this stack right now. The AY kills your appetite for sweets/ carbs.

 

[medicone]

clen isn't worth it. ECA will work very well with a good diet and u don't need the asprin part with it. clen having a 24 hour half life really isn't all that great for u. not to mention it makes it impossible to work out because u get completely out of breath in like 5 minutes. stay with EC, no point in clen unless ur going with clen/t3 and cutting for a bodybuilding contest.

if u do decide to go clen u can run it for 2 weeks on 2 weeks off cycle or go more than 2 weeks but ur going to need to take bendryl at night during the later part of the 2nd and through the 3rd week. i wouldn't stay on it for 4. some people do 2 weeks clen, 2 weeks ephedrine, 2 weeks clen. oh and if u have trouble getting mr. willy hard its because of the clen

That is good advice, but the old thinking of cycling clen is not true and you really dont have to. Here is a sample cycle:
Ramp up to whatever your body can handle, i.e, 100mcg, 120mcg. Stay there unitl week three and then start a regimen of benadryl-50mg a day for three weeks. This helps the upregulation of the receptor sites and will prolong the effect of the clen. You can do this for a total of 6-8weeks. As far as clen being an anabolic, Anthony Roberts wrote that is was and all the research has been that it has mild anabolic effects in humans. It should also be noted that it should not be run while on cycle, but I cannot find out why.

 

[WilteredFire]

Just like benedryl, Instead of that You can also take small amounts of an antihistamine drug called Ketotifen which helps to upregulate your beta 2 receptors and keep them fresh so the clen's effects dont decrease with time, so with that, no need to cycle on and off.

Maybe you want to research into the usage of Ketotifen on a clen cycle and also look up the other benefits Its said to have.

 

[jsp0785]

Just like benedryl, Instead of that You can also take small amounts of an antihistamine drug called Ketotifen which helps to upregulate your beta 2 receptors and keep them fresh so the clen's effects dont decrease with time, so with that, no need to cycle on and off.

Maybe you want to research into the usage of Ketotifen on a clen cycle and also look up the other benefits Its said to have.

yea but isn't ketotifen prescription only? i guess it's not a big deal to get because u can get it on the same sites you buy clen but benadryl is a lot cheaper and does the same thing

 

[jsp0785]

That is good advice, but the old thinking of cycling clen is not true and you really dont have to. Here is a sample cycle:
Ramp up to whatever your body can handle, i.e, 100mcg, 120mcg. Stay there unitl week three and then start a regimen of benadryl-50mg a day for three weeks. This helps the upregulation of the receptor sites and will prolong the effect of the clen. You can do this for a total of 6-8weeks. As far as clen being an anabolic, Anthony Roberts wrote that is was and all the research has been that it has mild anabolic effects in humans. It should also be noted that it should not be run while on cycle, but I cannot find out why.

my guess is u can't run it on cycle because ur heart will explode. and the only studies i've read about clen having anabolic properties was with horses, but they have like twice as many beta receptors as people do or something like that and thats why they get anabolic properties out of it. i'd really suggest the OP goes with albuterol first. little more potent than ECA but not as bad as clen because of the 6-8 hour half life. i don't remember the exact dosing but i think u start at 8-12mg a day and work ur way up to 18mg a day split between 3 doses

 

[panther77]

well i'm goin to be cutting in the coming weeks and was just wondering what you guys recommended

 

[jsp0785]

well i'm goin to be cutting in the coming weeks and was just wondering what you guys recommended

albuterol all the way

 

[KgTomCat]

Ive read alot about using Clen topically...interesting, but for now Im using ECA for 5-6 weeks, then ECY (bridge) for 4-5 weeks

 

[KgTomCat]

if u do decide to go clen u can run it for 2 weeks on 2 weeks off cycle or go more than 2 weeks but ur going to need to take bendryl at night during the later part of the 2nd and through the 3rd week. i wouldn't stay on it for 4. some people do 2 weeks clen, 2 weeks ephedrine, 2 weeks clen. oh and if u have trouble getting mr. willy hard its because of the clen

my friend does this...
Ive heard about using benadryl but never tried it
here's some good threads..

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/74689-advanced-fat-loss.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/weight-loss/123059-save-your-money.html

 

[jsp0785]

Ive read alot about using Clen topically...interesting, but for now Im using ECA for 5-6 weeks, then ECY (bridge) for 4-5 weeks

a little overboard on the stims isn't it?

 

[KgTomCat]

a little overboard on the stims isn't it?

yes, maybe, I dose my A (baby A) EOD, but might only do this for about 3 or 4 weeks only because Y is better IMO

 

[jsp0785]

yes, maybe, I dose my A (baby A) EOD, but might only do this for about 3 or 4 weeks only because Y is better IMO

the asprin is pointless it doesn't do anyting. and after a month on EC your body is going to be used to the ephedrine and you're not going to get any results. and the yohimbine will only really work well in the absence of carbs

 

[AK32408]

the asprin is pointless it doesn't do anyting. and after a month on EC your body is going to be used to the ephedrine and you're not going to get any results. and the yohimbine will only really work well in the absence of carbs

I thought the aspirin helped extend the life of the E and the C in your system ??

 

[soontobbeast]

the ephedrine doesnt stop working after a month.

just because you don't get the super stimulant effect anymore, it does not mean you are not getting the thermogenic effect.

 

[jsp0785]

the ephedrine doesnt stop working after a month.

just because you don't get the super stimulant effect anymore, it does not mean you are not getting the thermogenic effect.

ur body gets used to it so u need more to get the same effects, it happens with all drugs. u get the thermogenic effect from stimulating the beta 2 receptors i would think. and if that doesnt get stimulated like it did before with 25mgs then ur not going to get the same effect. ephedrine only gives u like a 1-2% increase in your metabolism. a lot of it has to do with the appetite suppressing effects.

 

[rugal09]

Clen is a whole another animal but I think 1,3-dimethylamylamine (Geranium oil) is better than Ephedrine HCL because it is cheap, effective, long lasting, and has very little sides or crash. Add some caffeine and you are set.

 

[KgTomCat]

yes, you will not feel the stim effects, but still have the thermo effects. i'm tapering it off also...1/2/3/3/2/1

 

[AK32408]

Clen is a whole another animal but I think 1,3-dimethylamylamine (Geranium oil) is better than Ephedrine HCL because it is cheap, effective, long lasting, and has very little sides or crash. Add some caffeine and you are set.

X-Force and Core ZAP have just this combo plus more

 

[andrew732]

glycobol, eviscerate, PLCAR, and topical clen equals FUN!

 

[TripDog]

Clen gives me HORRIBLE insomnia....

 

[andrew732]

Clen gives me HORRIBLE insomnia....

With topical, that is not a problem for most, however oral equals hell lol.

 

[TripDog]

With topical, that is not a problem for most, however oral equals hell lol.

Word, I would be laying in bed and could literaly see my heart moving my shirt...lol...fukc that.

 

[andrew732]

Word, I would be laying in bed and could literaly see my heart moving my shirt...lol...fukc that.

Bro, that is brutal, I guy like you should try DNP, although it will not offer the anabolic effects that clen offers, I am surprised you can handle R4W, my heart would be coming out my butt if I take some of that LOL.

 

[jsp0785]

Bro, that is brutal, I guy like you should try DNP, although it will not offer the anabolic effects that clen offers, I am surprised you can handle R4W, my heart would be coming out my butt if I take some of that LOL.

i don't think anybody needs to try DNP

 

[andrew732]

i don't think anybody needs to try DNP

I meant it as an alternative in terms of serious fat loss options, its not my favorite supp by any means. He knows I am busting his chops!

 

[NovaZ]

I am with Massive G and Pesty on this one. I will not get near anything that can lead even slightly to the word "necrosis" and the heart. Thats russian roullette in my opinion.

Nevermind the great potential for cardiac hypertrophy with Clen that we as bodybuilders already have to worry about with everything else (especially anyone out there who uses steroids and GH in combination)....but potential necrosis? to lose some bodyfat?

That was all I had to read to never use clen.

ECA would definitely be the safer alternative.

There is supposed to be a pubmed link in that quote but I cant post it because of too low a post count and I cant figure out a way around it.

 

[soontobbeast]

ur body gets used to it so u need more to get the same effects, it happens with all drugs. u get the thermogenic effect from stimulating the beta 2 receptors i would think. and if that doesnt get stimulated like it did before with 25mgs then ur not going to get the same effect. ephedrine only gives u like a 1-2% increase in your metabolism. a lot of it has to do with the appetite suppressing effects.

no.


E/C doesn't give me appetite suppression at all. in fact, i get hungrier while on it because my metabolism is heightened.

also, a stimulant effect isn't required for thermogenesis. there are many fat burners out there that are thermogenics but not stimulants.

and while it is true that with all drugs your body grows tolerance,it is also true that different drugs become tolerable quicker than others and believe me, there is a HUGE VARIANCE. and with some, the effect always happens.

 

[jsp0785]

no.


E/C doesn't give me appetite suppression at all. in fact, i get hungrier while on it because my metabolism is heightened.

also, a stimulant effect isn't required for thermogenesis. there are many fat burners out there that are thermogenics but not stimulants.

and while it is true that with all drugs your body grows tolerance,it is also true that different drugs become tolerable quicker than others and believe me, there is a HUGE VARIANCE. and with some, the effect always happens.

i get hungrier on ECA too but also can't eat as much when i do sit down to eat