Test Boosters and teens. Why ineffective?

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    Test Boosters and teens. Why ineffective?


    Almost all of my friends use test boosters at 17/18/19. I have experimented with Jungle Warfare, but not much. Every time I see a post about an 18 y.o. "kid" doing a test booster, I see the same ending comment. Its not effective, you already have high terst levels. That dosent make sense to me. I'm sorr, but I was under the impression that more testosterone means more gains. Am I wrong? Please add some insight as to why Test boosters wouldnt be effective on an 18 y.o. body.

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    if your referring to "natural test boosters" then yes they will not be effective at those ages. like you said earlier, test levels are f-in high at those ages. if you are not seeing teh results you want its probably nutrition oriented.

    if your referring to "non natural test boosters" ph/aas dont mess with that stuff until your older. from 18-22 your body is still growing and developing. taking those products at that age could have life long consequences.

    conclusion:
    eat more.
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    There's only so high your testosterone can go because of natural inhibition. At 19-early 20's, your body is in full gear making testosterone, and your levels should be at the highest they will be during your lifetime. As you age, testosterone levels slowly diminish; the reason the test boosters work for older folks is because it boosts them back up to where they were when they were younger, not above this threshold though.

    More testosterone definitely equals more gains, but your body is smart enough to limit how much testosterone it produces through negative feedback control mechanisms. With that being said, at 18/19 test boosters will still have an impact on libido, mood and aggression as I played around with some for the past few years. Just don't go expecting to get a massive testosterone boost.
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    Just don't go expecting to get a massive testosterone boost.
    You could also possibly get a pleasant estrogen boost as well!
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    Ok see i thought a natural test booster would push you over that natural threshold, I guess thats where I was confused. As for AAS, I figured that could be bad. I just got over almost starting an Anadrol cycle lol, probably saved my life with that one. Was looking at Deca 200, dosent seem to have many side effects. Im guessing at my age however there would bve additional risks to a cycle even with proper support and PCT?

    Edit: Just to let you know, i'm not saying I need to gain faster and am doing steroids. Curious to if done correctly, it would pose much healtyh risk, just trying to get the most out of my workouts and time, i'm sure others can relate to wanting the best gains:work ratio. Also if anybody can tell me about Anadrol i'd like to hear. I wouldnt even consider it at my age until im 25, however i'm just genuinlly interested in it b/c of how powerfull it is. Has anybody here tried it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by redline2101 View Post
    Almost all of my friends use test boosters at 17/18/19. I have experimented with Jungle Warfare, but not much. Every time I see a post about an 18 y.o. "kid" doing a test booster, I see the same ending comment. Its not effective, you already have high terst levels. That dosent make sense to me. I'm sorr, but I was under the impression that more testosterone means more gains. Am I wrong? Please add some insight as to why Test boosters wouldnt be effective on an 18 y.o. body.
    dont belive everything u hear, this is the internet

    when i was 18 i uesd mass FXMS and had great results
    since then ive ues many AIs and many other test boosters
    there not calld test BOOSTERS for nothin
    ppl just like to sound smart and say wat everybody else is sayin,
    wat there sayin is that if a 18 took DTHC he would get notyhing from it! lol pure BS

    yes beein young u have high test but more is better(to a point), and theres no natural test booster thats going to max out ur test lvls
    Quote Originally Posted by redline2101 View Post
    Ok see i thought a natural test booster would push you over that natural threshold, I guess thats where I was confused. As for AAS, I figured that could be bad. I just got over almost starting an Anadrol cycle lol, probably saved my life with that one. Was looking at Deca 200, dosent seem to have many side effects. Im guessing at my age however there would bve additional risks to a cycle even with proper support and PCT?

    Edit: Just to let you know, i'm not saying I need to gain faster and am doing steroids. Curious to if done correctly, it would pose much healtyh risk, just trying to get the most out of my workouts and time, i'm sure others can relate to wanting the best gains:work ratio. Also if anybody can tell me about Anadrol i'd like to hear. I wouldnt even consider it at my age until im 25, however i'm just genuinlly interested in it b/c of how powerfull it is. Has anybody here tried it?
    first of all if ur evan looking at aas/ph then u have more apprant issuse to deal with
    i know many guys who have done them early in ther carere and are fine yes they got bigger than me faster and look great but
    i just want to really c how far i can go till i juice
    alot o ppl are going to bash u but just read more and make your own choice
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    Im guessing at my age however there would bve additional risks to a cycle even with proper support and PCT?
    Nothing too major... possibly sealed growth plates, permanently altered test levels... some other ones i can't list off the top of my head.

    I'm sure you've probably heard this before, and i definitely don't want to be a mom to you, but your test levels are raging and you're still growing. Gains aren't made overnight and jumping the gun before you've even finished growing isn't going to help later on down the road.

    Glad to see that you got over starting a cycle though.
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    wat there sayin is that if a 18 took DTHC he would get notyhing from it! lol pure BS
    No one here has said that. Saying that not being effective and not experiencing a massive testosterone boost is different from saying that you will get purely nothing from it.

    Test boosters are designed to optimize endogenous testosterone production. If you are still maturing, especially at that age, and your testosterone levels haven't leveled out yet, i doubt the benefits would be as pronounced as if you were ten years older.

    Really its just looking out for his best interests, using testosterone boosters when your hormones haven't even maxed out could be detrimental.
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    Yea im like almost 6 feet tall, I honestly dont want to grow anymore lol, however I think i'm done anyways. Its nice to be able to ask a question and not be bombarded with "your a dumb teenager and a cheater STEROIDS ARE EVIL!!!!!!" like ive seen around on other sites. I am pretty happy I havent used steroids yet, and am not going to rush into it just b/c im impatient. Actually, I'm finally getting steady gains so i'd like to see how far I can get on just N.O. and some creatine. I guess the only thing I'm curious about is if Anadrol is really as effective as they say it is. A lb. a day, that oul be pretty awesome no matter who you are. Just think if our government put money towards developing sport supplaments on that level with less side effects, im sure soon well be seeing some new product with the rate at which we discover new things.
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    IMO, Steveo's post is a fair, unbiased, and accurate assesment of you situation. Anabolic steroids bombard your body with sythetic hormones that are MORE anabolic than testosterone. Testosterone is anabolic, and quite noticable when raised SIGNIFICANTLY, but the raise in test an 18 y/o is going to experience from a test booster is likely too small to create any measurable anabolic gain, at least one measurable enough to warrant spending money and toying with your hormones. Likely greater results could be seen from simpler supplements and diet changes.
    I'm not saying boosters cant raise test in young people, just that it's a matter of relavance.
    Example: (and these are just random numbers to demonstrate a point)
    45 y/o old man with test level 300
    18 y/o man with test level 800
    Test booster raises test 150.
    45 y/o man = 50% increase
    18 y/o man = 18% increase

    Obviously this is going to make a bigger difference to the older male.

    Younger people with high estrogen, or low test, may see different benefits from AI's and test boosters, but I think the experience is generally more valuable in older men.

    As far as steroids/PH, they are quite normalized in the internet world and among bodybuilders, but they are serious sh*t. Doing one cycle makes no sense, because nobody's going to be willing to face the risks to do one cycle, and then just go back to natural after it's over. Doesn't happen. And the risks are REAL. Some people do everything right and still get screwed up, regardless of age and experience.
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    Redemption, thanks alot for that post because it made me see things diff than I thought. You see the reason i have been confused is I thought that test boosters multiplied your testosterone, like anybody gets the same % off it, therefor at my age I'd get maximum gains. Now I see how they work, the % just come from a specific group. And thanks for steroid input also.
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    Ok, just to shed light on my own experience. I am 20 (will be 21 in april) and through research and asking alot of questions on this board, I was able to learn that due to my age, taking things such as a natural test booster, AI, etc. yes you may see results but they are not going to be big at all. And I understand that by taking these things now I may not get any result, but i tried a few with this in mind just to see what worked for me if anything did. A few months ago I ran a very minimum cycle of novedex xt. Maybe gained 2 pounds on it, felt a little stronger in the gym, was a bit more aggressive, and a little bit of a body fat loss. Currently I am taking a cycle of DTHC and I am not going to lie, I am loving it. I am in the fourth week of a five week cycle and I feel definitly more aggressive in the gym with a huge desire to just keep lifting and an increase in energy, gained a few pounds nothing insane, and a great feeling of well being, minor strength increase but a bigger increase in muscle endurance.

    However, I still know that at my age I am not going to see anything huge from these. I am just playing around with minimal doses of mild products to see what works for me. Saving the more serious supps for when I am older and truly need them.
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    The theory that natural test boosters are not efective for teens is a myth that is not true.I can give example with myself , when I was 17 years old for the first time used tribestan(tribulus) and I had erection 24 hours without interuption.In fact natural test boosters have much more prominent effect on teens than to old mans, because teens physique is much more sensitive to this types of supplements.Just get some quality test booster like DTHC or Activate and you will see that it will have effect on you.
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    Cool


    Teenagers don't need the extra test. If you think back to when we were teens man we woke up erect, walked around erect, went to sleep erect, etc., we had more energy than we knew what to do with. Their hormones are already raging and in most cases out of control so why would we encourage them to "possibly" screw up what they are producing naturally and rapidly. Shucks truth be told most of us are paying big buck's today to get back close to what we used to be. Red, lift hard, eat right, and if you have time get a good nights rest. Other than that hang on and enjoy the wild ride ahead of you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxxpain View Post
    The theory that natural test boosters are not efective for teens is a myth that is not true.I can give example with myself , when I was 17 years old for the first time used tribestan(tribulus) and I had erection 24 hours without interuption.In fact natural test boosters have much more prominent effect on teens than to old mans, because teens physique is much more sensitive to this types of supplements.Just get some quality test booster like DTHC or Activate and you will see that it will have effect on you.
    the point has already been made that a test booster has the potential to effect libido in younger adults...but that it's not actually doing much for actual test levels!

    but, if you're that young and having problems with libido then I'd rec seeing your doctor!!!!
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    i say work out without test boosters. If you take a test booster then that means you are a puzzy and are not a man. If you got to take a pill to be more manly then that sucks to be you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redemption79 View Post
    IMO, Steveo's post is a fair, unbiased, and accurate assesment of you situation. Anabolic steroids bombard your body with sythetic hormones that are MORE anabolic than testosterone. Testosterone is anabolic, and quite noticable when raised SIGNIFICANTLY, but the raise in test an 18 y/o is going to experience from a test booster is likely too small to create any measurable anabolic gain, at least one measurable enough to warrant spending money and toying with your hormones. Likely greater results could be seen from simpler supplements and diet changes.
    I'm not saying boosters cant raise test in young people, just that it's a matter of relavance.
    Example: (and these are just random numbers to demonstrate a point)
    45 y/o old man with test level 300
    18 y/o man with test level 800
    Test booster raises test 150.
    45 y/o man = 50% increase
    18 y/o man = 18% increase

    Obviously this is going to make a bigger difference to the older male.

    Younger people with high estrogen, or low test, may see different benefits from AI's and test boosters, but I think the experience is generally more valuable in older men.

    As far as steroids/PH, they are quite normalized in the internet world and among bodybuilders, but they are serious sh*t. Doing one cycle makes no sense, because nobody's going to be willing to face the risks to do one cycle, and then just go back to natural after it's over. Doesn't happen. And the risks are REAL. Some people do everything right and still get screwed up, regardless of age and experience.
    Very well stated.
    Follow me on facebook, twitter and youtube, where I share information and videos to help you achieve your physique goals, John Smeton Ftness
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    Quote Originally Posted by aries70 View Post
    Teenagers don't need the extra test. If you think back to when we were teens man we woke up erect, walked around erect, went to sleep erect, etc., we had more energy than we knew what to do with. Their hormones are already raging and in most cases out of control so why would we encourage them to "possibly" screw up what they are producing naturally and rapidly. Shucks truth be told most of us are paying big buck's today to get back close to what we used to be. Red, lift hard, eat right, and if you have time get a good nights rest. Other than that hang on and enjoy the wild ride ahead of you.
    Why would taking something like DTHC which is basically all herbal, screw up an 18-21 year old kid and his test production?
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    Pretty much 2nd what the educated posters on here are saying, stay natural at your age. Once your test starts to drop later in years, and you've exhausted your natural growth ability, then it's quite up to you. About the only thing I could think of might be a very mild AI, to keep some that test from degrading to estrogen, as you don't want to eliminate estrogen, just control/lower it. You would notice that, I feel. Good luck, and keep us posted!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxxpain View Post
    The theory that natural test boosters are not efective for teens is a myth that is not true.I can give example with myself , when I was 17 years old for the first time used tribestan(tribulus) and I had erection 24 hours without interuption.In fact natural test boosters have much more prominent effect on teens than to old mans, because teens physique is much more sensitive to this types of supplements.Just get some quality test booster like DTHC or Activate and you will see that it will have effect on you.
    Do some research. Trib has been clinically shown to improve libido in some patients. However, there is NO evidence to support that trib will raise testosterone in ANY healthy male, regardless of age.
    If you are having 24 hour erections. you need to get a girlfriend, not an herbal supplement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by srocco112 View Post
    Why would taking something like DTHC which is basically all herbal, screw up an 18-21 year old kid and his test production?
    it shouldn't screw anything up.

    but if it also will have minimal value over creatine/beta alanine then why bother?
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    If you're around 10% bodyfat or less, I doubt that natural test boosters will have any effect on your physique, no matter what your age. However, if you're looking for a recomp, then they can possibly help you out. Otherwise, you'll just get more woodies and possibly more agression at the gym. Of course, more agression can help with gains if your diet and everything else is in order.

    So, if you're young, money spent on the right foods in the right quantities will do more for you than a natural test booster will. If you have alll the basics covered (multi, creatine, etc) and you're eating correctly, then a test booster would be nice if you have the extra money to spend on it. Otherwise, save your money for food, like half and half.

    Your mileage may vary.
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    If you are having 24 hour erections. you need to get a girlfriend, not an herbal supplement.
    Either that, or a really good joint support formula for your sore wrist and elbow. Sorry couldn't resist.
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    You deserve rep for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by subweevil View Post
    Either that, or a really good joint support formula for your sore wrist and elbow. Sorry couldn't resist.
    haha i like that but read everything said above this post thats everything you need to know bro
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    It's been said, but I'll re-iterate.

    Take the time to do it the right way and hold off on attempting to mess with your hormones. Eat and Lift BIG! Looking into something like DoggCrapp training and you'll put on more size than people who juice and don't take the time to get their diet and training down.

    One of the main reasons people recommend you to do that first (besides safety) is because it's not hard to get big with AAS, but if you don't have good habits, then you'll also never keep it when you eventually stop. It's similar to why crash dieting doesn't work. Most people can endure to suffer for a certain period of time on some extreme diet, but a lot of them just go back to their old habits and gain it all back. Lasting results come from developing good habits.

    Finally, AAS aren't evil. I recommend you watch "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" because it presents a well-balanced perspective - showing the benefits and risks (legal and health). However, if you do decide to go to the dark side in 5-6 years, you need to do a lot more research on proper cycling based on what you were considering.
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    I just wanna say this, its not meant to be an attack on anyone or to sound insulting but I feel the need to question this, everyone is against the use of Pro hormones/steroids before 21, Ive heard the standard things:

    1. It could screw up test production for life

    I would just like to ask whether anyone has any justification for making such an argument? I know full well there is not going to be studies conducted on teen pro hormone use, but looking around various forums I have seen numerous reports from people who have used steroids/pro hormones far before 21 and gone on to have kids and be fine, even on our own forum we have DR.D who pulsed far before he was 21 and I believe that in one thread I saw one of the primordial reps mention he was using anabolics at 17, In terms of bad things happening to teens using steroids I remember a while back a story of 2 lads who used M1T for long periods of time without PCT at 16 and well and truly messed themselves up such cases/stories well and truly prove that many teens arent mature enough to formulate cycles and PCT's.

    However, using stories like that to justify teens not using steroids is ridicoulous anyone who stayed on M1T for a long time without PCT would surely face a high risk of not recovering properly?

    Getting back to the point however, I have personally never heard of a case of responsible steroid use as a teen causing problems (apart from the standard problems which would be faced by an adult) the point I am trying to make is this at 18 you are legally an adult at that point in time do you not deserve the same right to decide what to put in your body as someone 21+? I am always seeing complaints across various forums about the FDA banning substances and removing people of the right to decide what to put in their bodies and I completely agree with such complaints! However is telling someone who has done the correct research and formulated their cycle and pct correctly that they cannot run a cycle or pulse because of their age really any better? a teen comes on with a perfect cycle layout and PCT and is told to lay off them, an adult comes on with a not so perfect cycle plan, clearly having done half the research off the teen and is helped and supported.

    P.S DR.D and anyone else mentioned in this post in any respect, this post is not meant to offend or insult you in any way, DR.D especially I have the uttermost respect for.
    Last edited by Random181; 02-24-2009 at 05:44 PM. Reason: Edited out a Comment on fairness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random181 View Post
    However is telling someone who has done the correct research and formulated their cycle and pct correctly that they cannot run a cycle or pulse because of their age really any better? It just doesnt seem fair, a teen comes on with a perfect cycle layout and PCT and is told to lay off them, an adult comes on with a not so perfect cycle plan, clearly having done half the research off the teen and is helped and supported.
    Please tell the teen's endocrine system that it isn't fair it isn't finished developing, or tell his growth plates its not fair they are still open. tell the teen it isn't fair that he isn't as big as someone else.

    Fairness doesn't enter health considerations

    There is no perfect cycle layout for a teen.
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    The growth plates argument I completely conceed the only thing I would mention is that surely for a lot of people the growth plates are still open at 21 but its okay to cycle then? As for your point about the endocrine system not finished being developed logically yes it makes sense, however logically turning off your balls for a while at any age doesnt seem to bright an idea either does it not? Are you aware of anyone who has cycled under 21 and had side effects outside of that of an adult? in a long search of the internet I couldnt find any such stories.


    edit: I have edited out the comment about fairness, looking back on the post it did not help make the point.

    P.S perhaps in future you could address the points brough up in the post as opposed to attacking a small part of it?
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    Most people's growth plates are closed by 21, or if not they rarely grow more than 1/4-1/2 inch more at that point. And nobody has suggested that the day of your 21st birthday is the day you should start your first cycle. I don't think there is particularly much point before 25ish, as even till then unless you have been seriously and CORRECTLY eating + working out since 15 you still can make good natural gains.

    s for your point about the endocrine system not finished being developed logically yes it makes sense, however logically turning off your balls for a while at any age doesnt seem to bright an idea either does it not?
    if you rub your finger on wet paint or dry paint, which one does more damage? The fact is that there are no long term studies of the safety or effects of any of these products but medical science dictates that long term effects are generally worse when something affects an incompletely developed body part. You never hear of adults getting ear infections so bad they go deaf, but it does happen with children. There are many other similar examples.

    I've seen a few people post here who had bad experiences with steroids at 18 or under, but for a number of them the issue was poor PCT. The fact is that not all people whether they are doing a "perfect cycle" end up on the internet, posting on forums. So not being able to find them isn't meaningful.

    As with most everything in life, its a question of risk vs rewards. At 40, i've had the children i'm having, my testosterone is low so gains suck without anything, and I qualify for testosterone replacement therapy anyhow so if I were to not regain testicle function after a cycle i could get prescribed testosterone easily enough. So the risk of long term harm is low, but the rewards are good compared to me working out with nothing. On the flip side, an 18 year old will not see and keep significant gains from a cycle beyond what he could see if he maximized diet and training naturally because his testosterone level is as high as it will ever be, and his growth hormone levels are maxed as well. And the risks are higher, did you know that all the OTC steroids have labels on them that "these materials are known to the state of california to cause birth defects and cancer" ?
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    The growth plates argument I completely conceed the only thing I would mention is that surely for a lot of people the growth plates are still open at 21 but its okay to cycle then? As for your point about the endocrine system not finished being developed logically yes it makes sense, however logically turning off your balls for a while at any age doesnt seem to bright an idea either does it not? Are you aware of anyone who has cycled under 21 and had side effects outside of that of an adult? in a long search of the internet I couldnt find any such stories.
    I've always viewed the waiting until 21 debate to be that it is likely to be the earliest point at which you can handle a cycle responsibly. I'm not talking about what effects it will have on your body, but mentally I think its safe to say that the majority of people that are 21 are mature enough to both handle psychological aspect as well as understand the possible consequences of running a cycle.

    Even then, its not like waiting til you're 21 is set in stone. A lot of the more experienced PH/AAS users I've seen suggest waiting until you're 24 or 25 simply because you have exited the physiological stage in which you are still maturing physically.

    Even if there are no horror stories about running single cycles prematurely and experiencing ill health effects you are still nowhere near your genetic limit for growth and you really don't have the base for running a cycle. Its not so much what is proven to happen, but what people don't want to see happen, for suggesting that.
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    actually as well to add to what i said before, these products have only been out a few years (the designers). So how many guys who ran a cycle of superdrol at 17 have tried to have kids yet?
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    lol good point! I apologize for the innacuracy of my message, I was referring to people using steroids in general before 21, anyway I honestly dont want an argument I just wanted to ask, thanks all for the comments. Publicenemy: I to thought for a while that the whole 21 thing was mostly deemed to be the responsible age guess now that is in fact more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    actually as well to add to what i said before, these products have only been out a few years (the designers). So how many guys who ran a cycle of superdrol at 17 have tried to have kids yet?
    Arnold did. They have been out long enough I think for us to see some results. According to some polls i've seen, 5% of high school seniors have cycled steroids, so that ends up being alot on a larger scale.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redline2101 View Post
    Arnold did. They have been out long enough I think for us to see some results. According to some polls i've seen, 5% of high school seniors have cycled steroids, so that ends up being alot on a larger scale.
    no, Arnold didn't. He may have run dianabol, or may have run testosterone, but didn't run superdrol at 17, as it wasn't out then. And even if that is an accurate %, again how many have tried to have children and have been honest about steroid use? You can't state it with any kind of assurance, as there are no studies done on it. So you would be taking an unknown risk with long term potential issues for a gain of at best after pct 5-6lbs more than you could have gained with just proper nutrition. The risk:reward ratio is just not worth it.
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    [
    I just wanna say this, its not meant to be an attack on anyone or to sound insulting but I feel the need to question this, everyone is against the use of Pro hormones/steroids before 21, Ive heard the standard things:

    1. It could screw up test production for life

    I would just like to ask whether anyone has any justification for making such an argument? I know full well there is not going to be studies conducted on teen pro hormone use, but looking around various forums I have seen numerous reports from people who have used steroids/pro hormones far before 21 and gone on to have kids and be fine, even on our own forum we have DR.D who pulsed far before he was 21 and I believe that in one thread I saw one of the primordial reps mention he was using anabolics at 17, In terms of bad things happening to teens using steroids I remember a while back a story of 2 lads who used M1T for long periods of time without PCT at 16 and well and truly messed themselves up such cases/stories well and truly prove that many teens arent mature enough to formulate cycles and PCT's.

    However, using stories like that to justify teens not using steroids is ridicoulous anyone who stayed on M1T for a long time without PCT would surely face a high risk of not recovering properly?

    Getting back to the point however, I have personally never heard of a case of responsible steroid use as a teen causing problems (apart from the standard problems which would be faced by an adult) the point I am trying to make is this at 18 you are legally an adult at that point in time do you not deserve the same right to decide what to put in your body as someone 21+? I am always seeing complaints across various forums about the FDA banning substances and removing people of the right to decide what to put in their bodies and I completely agree with such complaints! However is telling someone who has done the correct research and formulated their cycle and pct correctly that they cannot run a cycle or pulse because of their age really any better? a teen comes on with a perfect cycle layout and PCT and is told to lay off them, an adult comes on with a not so perfect cycle plan, clearly having done half the research off the teen and is helped and supported.

    P.S DR.D and anyone else mentioned in this post in any respect, this post is not meant to offend or insult you in any way, DR.D especially I have the uttermost respect for.
    Granted, it's fully your right if your over the age/and or 18 to do whatever you wish to your body. If your wish is to "pharmacologically enhance" it, so be it. I just find it interesting that the majority of people who went down that road recommend not doing it. A lot of factors play into it, it's not just one thing, it's the whole picture. As for no research on teens, that should tell you something there, aside from the fact lots of people won't admit to it. The term "Maverick" is used often to describe someone who pioneers something new, or blazes a trail into new found territory. Sounds like your quite intent on blazing that trail, good luck!! I personally wouldn't recommend it, and I'm by no means an expert.
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    good thread, although with all the arguments against I still love my DTHC!
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    To anyone who thinks they haved "learned" enough about PH's and AAS at the age of 18:

    You have a lot to learn, about life in general.

    I'm not trying to talk down to anyone here, but some of the positions stated by 18 yr olds as to why they should use PH's or AAS's are really starting to make my skin crawl. Do whatever the h*ll you want, dude. That know-it-all attitude turns to sh*t pretty quickly when things dont work out as planned and you dont know what to do. If you want a link to a young kid who was "educated" about the correct way to use PH's (and by educated I mean he read the same B.S. about Liv52, Nolva, and the rest of the reccomendations that your trusted "Broffessor" has to offer) and still wound up in a bad place, I'll find one for you. They aren't that hard to find. It happens quite often.

    The fact of the matter is, you don't know the best wasy to use steroids and PH's safely, because no one does. It's a roll of the dice either way. You're speaking of a world of knowledge based almost entirely on anecdotal evidence alone, in which two separate people might give you two completely different reccomendations. Reading the reccomendations of some dude on the internet (who probably took his position on the matter after reading another persons posts) does not qualify you to proclaim you are acting in a safe, or even intelligent manner.
    Case in point: Broad statements are made by many regarding the effectiveness of popular liver protectants and steroids. I bet you know all about them with all your internet research. But the fact is, while Liv52 or milk thistle have been show to offer generic liver protection, they have not been specifically tested with 17-alpha alkylated steroids. (Negative results have even been reported for toxicity with liv52 and alcohol.) So the bro-ology would imply, works without AAS, should, probably, provide liver protection with AAS. Probably. But you don't know that. Neither does the kid that told you to take it.

    I'm not trying to start a debate about liver protectants. I'm far from qualified to step into a debate regarding anabolics. I'm just trying to make this point: When you take AAS's, or PH's, you are toying with your body in ways that you cant really be sure about. Anyone who believes there isn't a risk involved is deeply in denial.

    I have nothing against steroid use. I enjoy natural competitions as well as not-so-natural. To each his own, and I believe there is a place in this sport for both. I also believe, however, that there is a big difference in taking these risks at a later age, when your body is in a naturaly declining state of health, versus taking these risks before you have even reached your peak and you have little idea where your life is going. I for one can say the choice I make today would not be the same choice I made at the age of 18.
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    Drugs are bad... mmmkay
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    Quote Originally Posted by redline2101 View Post
    Arnold did. They have been out long enough I think for us to see some results. According to some polls i've seen, 5% of high school seniors have cycled steroids, so that ends up being alot on a larger scale.
    Arnold also had open heart surgery at a pretty young age. Some say it was congenital and some say it was from steroid use. Unfortunately we can't really say for sure.
  

  
 

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