- 02-04-2009, 06:58 AM
- 02-04-2009, 07:49 AM
- 02-04-2009, 09:50 AM
Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 1.0; en-us; dream) AppleWebKit/525.10+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0.4 Mobile Safari/523.12.2
02-04-2009, 10:26 AM
? i always thought it was good for memory and brain function and stuff..
“We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an act, but a habit.”
02-04-2009, 10:39 AM
02-04-2009, 03:18 PM
piracetam + choline citrate or AGPC. that stack is extremely cheap and most people find it effective for boosting memory.
or, if you can get one, pramiracetam/aniracetam, but those are a little more costly. sulbutiamine might, and i emphasize, MIGHT help.
Piracetam+ginko+choline source is a super stack for memory, IMO. I'm a college student and I run this all the time. I've found it to be very powerful for boosting my recall abilities.
02-04-2009, 03:26 PM
02-04-2009, 03:34 PM
02-04-2009, 04:12 PM
02-04-2009, 04:13 PM
02-04-2009, 04:37 PM
02-04-2009, 04:38 PM
I've had good luck with piracetam. Make sure you also take choline with it as well.
Oddly enough... I also tried Bodyquicken/Brainquicken and it seemed to work for a shorter term brain boost. Although its pricey and doesn't last more than a few hours.
02-05-2009, 02:50 PM
aniracetam appears to be the favorite of our customers versus piracetam and oxiracetam....there was a problem with supply issues recently but we have now gotten a shipment of aniracetam (one of the very few) at dealsinbulk
02-05-2009, 03:05 PM
Nutrition major speaking here...
There no food or supplement that is clinically proven to provide increased memory or brain function. I can provide support from clinical studies if anyone is truly interested. Ginko biloba is especially contradicted (marketing for supplements is NOT regulated by FDA; supplements in general are not regulated by FDA either)
Brain memory is a function of concentrating. Not how much a supplement causes you to think.
Sorry for the bad news.
02-05-2009, 06:08 PM
here is the summary:
Creatine supplementation is in widespread use to enhance sports-fitness performance, and has been trialled successfully in the treatment of neurological, neuromuscular and atherosclerotic disease. Creatine plays a pivotal role in brain energy homeostasis, being a temporal and spatial buffer for cytosolic and mitochondrial pools of the cellular energy currency, adenosine triphosphate and its regulator, adenosine diphosphate. In this work, we tested the hypothesis that oral creatine supplementation (5 g d-1 for six weeks) would enhance intelligence test scores and working memory performance in 45 young adult, vegetarian subjects in a double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over design. Creatine supplementation had a significant positive effect (p < 0.0001) on both working memory (backward digit span) and intelligence (Raven's Advanced Progressive Matrices), both tasks that require speed of processing. These findings underline a dynamic and significant role of brain energy capacity in influencing brain performance.
it was done by Discipline of Biochemistry, School of Molecular and Microbial Biosciences G08, The University of Sydney, Sydney, NSW 2006, Australia
and you can find it at the royal society's website.
And even if the -racetam family and ginko have not been CLINICALLY proven, the functional word there is CLINICALLY... massive amounts of anecdotal evidence supports the premise that they do, in fact, enhance memory.
02-05-2009, 06:14 PM
Once again, the power of the internet wins.
Piracetam.com cites a study done and published in Pharmacology magazine.... here is the summary...
The subjects were given 3x4 capsules at 400 mg per day, in a double blind study. Each subject learned series of words presented as stimuli upon a memory drum. No effects were observed after 7 days but after 14 days verbal learning had significantly increased.
if you want to evaluate that further, just google the following:
Psychopharmacology (Berl) 1976 Sep 29;49(3):307-9
It is apparent that supplements HAVE been shown to clinically improve memory. There are numerous other studies i found, but i believe my point has been made.
02-06-2009, 06:44 AM
to the OP, please look into phosphatidylserine. This has helped me greatly with my short term memory as well as with recovery from workouts. A true 2 in 1 type product. The one I purchase is made by Source Naturals.
02-06-2009, 07:13 AM
02-06-2009, 07:17 AM
Regardless of what company you use, just make sure that it's a decent dosage when taken. im currently taking 1g (1000mg) in total by way of 1 pill x twice daily.
02-06-2009, 07:37 AM
02-06-2009, 08:00 AM
Spicey....Supps definitely make a difference, it's not just marketing. High grade Ginko is good but I always used cheep inexpensive Lecethin. My mom used to give it to me in Highschool and I swear it took me from a C student to and A- student. I was focused, calm, and my mind retained everything. Back on it recently! Good inexpensive stuff. Good Ginko is expensive...I belive it is and higher potency extract that would cost me $40 for 1 mth supply but boy I could feel the increased blood circulation throughout my entire body. The inexpensive Ginko seems to do nothing for me.
02-07-2009, 04:24 AM
02-07-2009, 04:35 AM
. I vote notropics..if you do piracteam make sure you do a choline source with it...I ony did mine a lil over three monthsi got decent benefits. Best benefits are like six months or longer.
I did Alcar two years without choline which was a mistake I was always foggy headed.
right now taking sulbutamine which is good stuff for learning. Smart drugs are an interest i like to take on and off at times.
Follow me on facebook, twitter and youtube, where I share information and videos to help you achieve your physique goals, John Smeton Ftness
02-07-2009, 02:39 PM
I am a performance trainer to Michael Guasch, a professional formula 1 car driver. He works across the street from Bill Romanowski and I train them together out in Benicia, California. While training Bill he kept bringing up his supplement line (Nutrition 53) and he gave me a few samples and I was blown away. I never really rave about supps but hearing him talk about his formula and company standards made me optimistic enough to give it a shot and I'm so glad I did.
So, go to nutrition53.com. And if MY memory serves me well then you can get a tub of it for free...of course you pay the 8 bucks or what not for shipping. Just make sure to call back in about 20days and tell them to not send you anymore (unless you opt to pay the $80 a month for it) and you're home free. This stuff is great and worth the money. Lots of stars take it and ha....even mr john mccain uses it daily!
02-07-2009, 02:43 PM
Sorry guys. I just went on the site and didn't notice the same offer. Put out a couple calls and that offer is expired. However, someone on this board should go out on a limb and get a tub. You wouldn't regret it.
02-07-2009, 05:00 PM
Here is what you need:
Ginko >> circulation >> it's not expensive
Bacopa Manierri >> Memory enhancer >> can get a good extract pretty cheap
Fish Oil >> Will help your entire body
DMAE >> cheap and you only need a small dose
ALCAR >> for memory you only need small dose, which would be cheap at nutra
Gotu Kola >> will help circulation as well
Choline >> Alpha GPC is a high quality one, but it's expensive >> need small dose as well
Vinpocetine & Huperzia are also helpful for memory
Phosphatidylserine >> This will help with stress and protect your brain cells from damage. Used to be pricey, but you only need like 100mg per day to feel the difference, which is not that expensive any more.
If you look around you can find a supplement for about $20/month that has most of the above, or you can build your own buying herb extracts and bulk powders from multiple sites. Anyways, you will feel the difference.
02-07-2009, 05:10 PM
Guys, don't get ripped off on that website...and besides that only nutraplanet is a valid recommendation at this forum.
02-07-2009, 05:16 PM
Another cheap nootropic to add to your list is lecithin. It is a great source of phosphatidyl choline and inositol.
02-07-2009, 05:28 PM
02-07-2009, 05:37 PM
I never quite understood why people even buy oxi, comparing costs to what the research says its potency is, it's not very cost-effective.
02-07-2009, 07:05 PM
Guys I don't believe anyone's personal experiences of taking products due to the placebo effect. I want to see a clinical trial containing a jadad score of 4 or better that supports a memory enhancement supplement and I’ll change my mind about memory enhancement supplements.
Granted, there has been studies that state there may be a correlation between improvement due to supplementation, but the correlation is weak. Significant, silver-bullet studies have not been reported.
Ironaddict, what's the jadad on that Australian study? Also, I'm not going to believe an article posted on piracetam.com which is linked to a supplement selling company.... Obviously they will state positive results from their supplements, they're selling the product. Power of the internet is weak at times because companies try to sell their product.
I am interested to see a clinical trial from a medical database supporting supplementation of phosphatidyl-serine, ginko biloba(any part of the plant), inositol, or choline. I don't mind if I am proven wrong. I like to learn about new information based on legitimate, clinical trails. I think I can speak for everyone; I would rather not waste my money on supplements if they don’t work.
The general consensus from my professors was that "no supplement can be taken to enhance memory." I believe University of Florida hires extremely knowledgeable professors.
I took phoshatidyl-serine as a personal experiment while I was dieting for a show. At 150mg a day, I did not see an enhancement in memory. I barely remember how I cut the last week before the show.
02-08-2009, 08:35 AM
That is very surprising to me. I'm not calling you a liar by any means...but phosphatidylserine has worked very well for me in this respect and that is one study not linked to any sales for anyone.
Maybe because you use 150mg a day and I am using 1000mg a day. Please also remember that not all supplement companies are created equal. I've used a product from one company and gotten zero results and then the same product by another company with a great deal of change.
02-08-2009, 09:00 AM
I base most of my belief in a supp etc. on 1st hand experiences from people I have faith in. Lecethin has worked wonders for me in the past. Although it takes several months to receive noticable benefits and the benefits are usually in hindsight because one gets used to the improvements & feels they are the norm.
02-08-2009, 11:32 AM
As per SpicyTuna's request, I just dug up some research on some of these nootropics. I hate being the pubmed ninja as it doesn't give me the raw data or an in-depth look at the methods (especially statistical methods). Lastly, I'll just say that a controlled, clinical trial would be convenient, wouldn't it? A peer-reviewed one might be even better, or so I've been told (having an expert making sure it's not BS). Before you delve into the great abstractness of the entrez database, remember the wise words of Galileo: "Something which cannot be measured cannot exist." Tell me how the hell someone accurately measures memory, and I'll tell you how to test for it. Afterall, do you really think the children's flip card is the same thing as studying for an exam, remembering what's on your grocery list, riding a bicycle for the first time in 10 years, or what day your girlfriends birthday is on?
PC, I didn't see any human trials, but then again with the extensive research done, signing the waiver to participate would be signing your life over (literally) because they killed them and examined their brains. Acetylcholine is a major neurotransmitter, which is associated with such functions as learning, memory, and your ability to move. Consuming a choline salt or a PC, it will lose its anion/cholesterol tail and become acetylated to form acetylcholine. Hence, it's not to surprising to see how (pending Ach levels) a choline supplement could provide benefits to
Gingko Biloba. Seems to be a mix of results, but I'm not surprised. In the medical community, there's not a whole lot of control in experiments like these. Could be due to coincidentally responsive experimental groups to either the gingko or a placebo effect. Could be due to various extracts (i.e. not getting enough of the correct terpenoid) or could be due to ineffective dosing.
Lastly, I found this. I suppose one might take with a grain of salt, as the person who wrote it apparently doesn't see a difference between Gotu Kola and Kola Nut (two plants of different genus as well as continent of origin).
02-08-2009, 03:48 PM
Nutrition professors at colleges are notoriously conservative, most probably still believe in the ole food pyramid and the over 30 grams of protein(your body can't process myth) they still propogate.
02-09-2009, 07:28 AM
02-10-2009, 09:54 AM
good point CTDuece, there are some variables in self-experimentation.
Lucky, I believe in studies because they are controlled (as much as they can possibly be). Clinical studies are "graded" on how well they are conducted by their jadad score. That's why I asked for a study of 4 or better; which is a good score. Scoring ranges from some negative number to 5. I don't read those crazy "studies" advertised in magazines that sell their product. Those things are ridic.
Thesinner, thanks for the studies. I’ll check em' out when I get a chance. Maybe you can change my view.
supplementpimp(?? lol), You're right, professors are conservative because they are in no position to be radical. My Mans Food Prof. said 10% of DV should come from protein... yeahhhh riiiiiight. But, this particular professor I had gave great lectures, I trusted his opinion, he was a former Olympiad.
02-10-2009, 10:36 AM
i'd start with fish oil and ginko...focus factor mentioned above has just about everything in it, including huperzine-a which i have only seen mentioned once.
but i believe the PS is under dosed
02-13-2009, 07:47 PM
02-13-2009, 09:09 PM
Similar Forum Threads
- By andro in forum AnabolicsReplies: 4Last Post: 11-09-2010, 11:21 AM
- By stjensen92 in forum AnabolicsReplies: 5Last Post: 08-05-2009, 04:11 PM
- By ohiostate2827 in forum SupplementsReplies: 5Last Post: 07-08-2009, 06:36 PM
- By ohiostate2827 in forum SupplementsReplies: 6Last Post: 02-22-2008, 11:36 PM
- By ohiostate2827 in forum SupplementsReplies: 17Last Post: 06-09-2007, 09:31 AM