Starting Ergopharms 6-Oxo(stand-Alone) need advice From Experienced users.

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Decided to try this product as a stand alone,, considering purchasing 2x 60 bottles of Ergopharms 6-Oxo,

i am currently debating with the dosing and the volume of weeks that i will be using this product.

i was planning on using this product for 6 weeks,

week 1 600mg

week 2 500mg

week 3 400mg

week 4 300 mg

week 5 200 mg

week 6 100mg

or maybe a four weeks but on a slightly higher dosage,

Week 1 400mg

week 2 400mg

week 3 600mg

week 4 600mg

i have been reading a few reviews on this product, and it has been brought to my attention that if i increase "6-oxo" to over 300mg, than i would have to include a DHT blocker???

I would really appreciate it, if any experienced sport supplement users could advise me on this, as Male pattern baldness is a problem in my family.
 
AK32408

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Why would you run this as a stand alone ? I thought 6-OXO was for PCT ??
 
dsade

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Grab the bigger bottle instead - better deal.

YOu want to take around 300mg a day.

Anything that you do to increase test usually has the side effect of increasing DHT, since test is metabolized via 5a-reductase to DHT. Systemic DHT blockers are a BAD idea.
 

jsp0785

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u can get it in bulk powder a lot cheaper too
 

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Appreciate the advice guys,

AK32408, im planning on using this as a stand alone which may seem rather monotonous, but basically to prep my body for more hardcore supplements in the future. You see i have never used any Testosterone boosters before, so i decided to take things slow and build myself up on the more natural products, than once I’m more educated in more advanced supplements dosing/timeing/Safty etc, ill be experimenting with the more hardcare stuff, prohormones etc.

Soo guys?

You believe i shouldn’t have to much of a problem on 300mg of this stuff regarding hair loss? How about if i decided to go for a higher dosage?

Would anyone recommend any cycle support with this product i.e. beta sitosterol or saw palmetto.

Also Dsade, would you please elaborate on the term "Systemic" DHT blockers

Also does it require takeing this product on my off training days?

Also can anyone recommend me a 6 week dosage schedule for a novice.

thankyou in a advanced.
 
AK32408

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Thats a negative. Can be used as a safe test booster also.
Good to know... I learn something new on here everyday :)

Good luck with the product Bulk !
 
dsade

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Also Dsade, would you please elaborate on the term "Systemic" DHT blockers
DHT is the primary ANDROGENIC hormone in a man's body. It contributes to muscle hardness, strength, sex-drive, aggression and other masculine traits.

While you want to block the effects locally (notably in scalp and prostate tissue), blocking DHT in the entire body is NOT recommended, due to side effects.
 
cjszip

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[1] You believe i shouldn’t have to much of a problem on 300mg of this stuff regarding hair loss? How about if i decided to go for a higher dosage?

[2] Would anyone recommend any cycle support with this product i.e. beta sitosterol or saw palmetto.

[3] Also does it require takeing this product on my off training days?

[4] Also can anyone recommend me a 6 week dosage schedule for a novice.
1, you'll be fine at 300mg... No reason to start at anything higher unless you've already got an abundance of estrogen. Although often underestimated, 6-OXO is still very powerful. Unless you've got a clinically high level of estrogen, there's no reason to reduce your estro by THAT much. 300.

2, I wouldn't spend my money on a support for this, however I would recommend a supplement like Activate or Blue Up- something to enhance your free test once your total test is higher.

3, take it daily.

4, a 6-8 week cycle should be fine. I suggest 300/300/300/300/200/200/100/100 or something simliar. It's up to you based on how you feel. If you feel your joints getting creeky, joint pain, low sex drive, or other symptoms of very low estrogen, reduce your dosage by 100mg every 7-10 days until symptoms subside.
 
Chefdeez

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DHT is the primary ANDROGENIC hormone in a man's body. It contributes to muscle hardness, strength, sex-drive, aggression and other masculine traits.

While you want to block the effects locally (notably in scalp and prostate tissue), blocking DHT in the entire body is NOT recommended, due to side effects.
So it sounds like you are against the use of Saw Palmetto, etc for DHT blocking systematically. What do you suggest if anything at all?
 
cjszip

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So it sounds like you are against the use of Saw Palmetto, etc for DHT blocking systematically. What do you suggest if anything at all?
You're misusing the word "systematic". Saw Palmetto blocks the negative effects of DHT in the prostate. It is NOT a systematic (meaning whole-body) method of blocking DHT. It is "site specific". Here's another example; Oral yohimbine is a SYSTEMATIC method of taking yohimbine (circulates through, and affects the entire body- systematically). Using Lipoderm is a topical, or site-specific method.. non-systematic.

I'm clarifying this, not to be an a-hole, but because you asked dsade to elaborate on the term "systematic" DHT blockers. He did not explain the definition of systematic, but rather explained what a systematic DHT blocker would cause. dsade probably assumed you knew the definition of this word and you've drawn an incorrect conclusion- that ANY orally administered DHT blocker would have a systematic effect (effect on total body DHT levels). Saw Palmetto is fine. It will reduce the risk of BPH due to it's site-specific effects.

Again, please do not assume the worst of this post. My intentions are to clarify a commonly misunderstood term.
 

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wow cj you really know alot of stuff on this topic. i got a few more ?'s i'd like for you to clarify if you would. i'd greatly apprecate it..
 
Chefdeez

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You're right, I misinterpreted the post. Understood.
 
msucurt

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I was actually curious about the 6-oxo as a standalone too. I have about a 1/2 remaining from a PCT, but ill just save it for another time.

Im currently running eform/leviathan currently as a 6week stack and then will add xfactor this week sometime. Doing the FDFS workout. wow
 
johnyq

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I thought that recent study showed no increase in lean mass with the use of 6oxo?

I would pass on a standalone AI personally, unless for PCT purposes.
 

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Cjszip, Dsade,

thankyou very much for the help it is very kind of you.

Just for future knowledge, when on more hardcore supplement cycles,,, which "site specific" products can you advise me to take to protect my scalp?
 

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Here is a link where i read about adding DHT blockers to the oxo cycle, the post was from a guy called "crazy fool405" about half way down..


anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/109521-6-oxo-dosing.
 
dsade

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Cjszip, Dsade,

thankyou very much for the help it is very kind of you.

Just for future knowledge, when on more hardcore supplement cycles,,, which "site specific" products can you advise me to take to protect my scalp?
I wasn't planning on mentioning it, honestly...but since you ask - part of the purpose for Java Lustre's/Virile Mane's design is to allow for the use of anabolics/test boosters without risk of hair shedding.
 
johnyq

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I don't understand what you are expecting to gain out of 6-oxo by itself, it is not shown to increase LBM.


“It was seen that both supplement groups had higher testosterone and free testosterone levels than the control group. The control group’s hormone levels hardly changed over the course of the
workout period while the supplement groups had peak increases of 30% (300 mg) and
47% (600 mg) in total testosterone concentrations and 116% (300 mg) and 99% (600 mg)
increase in free testosterone concentrations. These changes were similar to the work
done by Incledon (unpublished observations). This proves that 6OXO™ does indeed
increase testosterone and free testosterone concentrations. While this might suggest that
6OXO™ supplementation would lead to increased muscle mass because of the anabolic
effect of higher testosterone levels, this is not necessarily true because in our experiments
it was seen that there were no increases in lean muscle mass or improvements in body
composition
. This lack of change even at higher testosterone levels can probably be
attributed to 6OXO™’s chemical structure. By being chemically similar to testosterone it
could interact with testosterone in a competitive fashion not only at the aromatase
enzyme but also at the androgen receptor in muscles. Competition at the androgen
receptor would decrease testosterone’s ability to bind to the receptor and stimulate
muscle growth. This would explain the lack of increased muscle mass with increased
testosterone concentrations.”

https://beardocs.baylor.edu/bitstream/2104/3014/4/danielrohle_masters.pdf
 

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hmm Interesting and very factual,

The plan was /is, to use this product as part of my bulk phase,

Whilst bulking i eat enough food to feed a whole army of men, so getting muscle mass will not be a problem for me! as we all no, food is the key to growth, and is much more anabolic than any supplement on this planet.

Basically iv been training for around 3 years (properly) cycling the basic supplements, Cee ,Mono, L-G,Bcaa, Whey, Pre-work Sups etc.

Currently i am going through the dreaded plateau, and feel it is the time to freshen things up a tad.

Never used test boosters before, i was recommended this product (oxo) by a work colleague, just to add some much needed testosterone, resulting in more strength.

More strength = more intense workouts = much more mass.
 
johnyq

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There are a lot of good choices for putting on some mass/strength.

Some places to start your research:
activate extreme
drive
diesel test hardcore


Good luck whatever you choose.a
 
AK32408

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What johnyq is saying is what I was initially trying to get to in my 1st post when I was asking why you were running it as a stand alone. I agree though, you should definitely run something like DTH, PowerFULL or IGF-2 instead... but good luck with whatever you decide !
 
Ubiyca

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johnyq fails to mention how studies also show 6-oxo to raise FT, T/E, FSH significantly 300mg, and even more at 600mg
 

jasone

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i would start at 300mg, i did 4 weeks of 300mg with some that i had left over as a stand alone and saw some decent gains.
 
johnyq

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johnyq fails to mention how studies also show 6-oxo to raise FT, T/E, FSH significantly 300mg, and even more at 600mg
Its right there in the abstract I posted, which states IN SPITE of the increases in FT, no increases in LBM were observed (and they go on to theorize why this might be).
 

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I from the uk buddy, women play baseball over here.
HAHA....awesome. I'm not a baseball guy either bro. Overpaid men, many never seem to grow up (see the Red Sox celebration on 07), that play a kids game. National passtime...I think not.
 
madds87

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There are a lot of good choices for putting on some mass/strength.

Some places to start your research:
activate extreme
drive
diesel test hardcore


Good luck whatever you choose.a
I reccomend diesel test. That junk is off the chain!!!
 
flamini

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You're misusing the word "systematic". Saw Palmetto blocks the negative effects of DHT in the prostate. It is NOT a systematic (meaning whole-body) method of blocking DHT. It is "site specific". Here's another example; Oral yohimbine is a SYSTEMATIC method of taking yohimbine (circulates through, and affects the entire body- systematically). Using Lipoderm is a topical, or site-specific method.. non-systematic.

I'm clarifying this, not to be an a-hole, but because you asked dsade to elaborate on the term "systematic" DHT blockers. He did not explain the definition of systematic, but rather explained what a systematic DHT blocker would cause. dsade probably assumed you knew the definition of this word and you've drawn an incorrect conclusion- that ANY orally administered DHT blocker would have a systematic effect (effect on total body DHT levels). Saw Palmetto is fine. It will reduce the risk of BPH due to it's site-specific effects.

Again, please do not assume the worst of this post. My intentions are to clarify a commonly misunderstood term.
if u run a 6oxo standalone 300 mg a day for 4 weeks is it safe ? bottom line? and do u need a pct ?
 

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