Formestane Guru's: Formadex By BCS Labs, Help tapering

[TexasLifter89]

Alright so I have 2 bottles of Formadex by BCS Labs. I plan on running for 8 weeks max consistently. I also plan to dose orally. Although typical oral dosing is ~1G I have read that 150-200mg of BCS per day will suffice for noticeable results with not much hurt. This is exactly where I want to be. Anyways I have read that formadex is best tapered up to as well as tapered down towards the end of the run. So essentially what I am asking is for help to set up a successful very mild run of oral formestane (formadex). Thank you for your help AM.

My proposed run:
week1- 50mg
week2- 100mg
week3- 150mg
week4- 150mg
week5- 150mg
week6- 150mg
week7- 100mg
week8- 50mg


Any suitable critques and/or improvements are asked.

Should I begin lower than 100mg while tapering up. weeks 3-6 are where i'm not quite sure what to do. I am planning on 150mg for sure weeks 2-3 and depending on that bumping up to 200mg for possible weeks 4-5. My main concern is the issue of tapering up and down at the beginnings and ends of cycle

 

[WilteredFire]

I've ran two cycles of Form before, I've always tapered into it, and tapered out of it especially, i would say 2months in total as a very max, i wouldn't think suppressing estrogen for too long a period is a good thing incase it increases the chances of a more aggressive rebound once your off.

You've gotta find your sweetspot with Form as the key is estrogen control not elimination, and everybodys hormone profiles are different, so i dont think one dosage of Form will work equally for every person, a decent range for controlling your E levels with Form seems to be around 80mg - 120mg from what i've read...

Taper in from 40mg ish onwards if its possible and see how it treats you, and always lookout for changes in libido and signs of dryness of aches in joints and knee's as a sign that you dont need to increase your dosage further. If you feel your libido drop, drop your dosage back by about 20mg or so. Just wanted to add also that the dosages im mentioning and the Form i've tried is a Transdermal application, so please bear this in mind Always start low and work your way up and find your Form sweet spot

Correct me if i've given you any wrong info here, im still learning about Form myself

God bless

 

[TexasLifter89]

I wish I had that opportunity to start that low, but the particular type im running is 50mg caps. I have had mixed comments whether or not their are fillers in it so I am planning to take it oral. so lowest I could start at is 50mg.

 

[nunes]

Alright so I have 2 bottles of Formadex by BCS Labs. I plan on running for 8 weeks max consistently. I also plan to dose orally. Although typical oral dosing is ~1G I have read that 150-200mg of BCS per day will suffice for noticeable results with not much hurt. This is exactly where I want to be. Anyways I have read that formadex is best tapered up to as well as tapered down towards the end of the run. So essentially what I am asking is for help to set up a successful very mild run of oral formestane (formadex). Thank you for your help AM.

My proposed run:
week1- 100mg
week2- 100mg
week3- 150mg
week4- 150mg
week5- 150mg
week6- 150mg
week7- 100mg
week8- 100mg


Any suitable critques and/or improvements are asked.

Should I begin lower than 100mg while tapering up. weeks 3-6 are where i'm not quite sure what to do. I am planning on 150mg for sure weeks 2-3 and depending on that bumping up to 200mg for possible weeks 4-5. My main concern is the issue of tapering up and down at the beginnings and ends of cycle

I believe this study may have some interest to you:

The effects of oral 4-hydroxyandrostenedione on peripheral aromatisation in post-menopausal breast cancer patients

Abstract This study investigated the influence of the aromatase inhibitor 4-hydroxyandrostenedione (4OHA, formestane), given orally, on peripheral aromatase activity and plasma oestradiol (E 2) levels in post-menopausal women with advanced breast cancer. The aim was to establish whether an optimal dose could be identified that had a pharmacological effectiveness comparable with that of parenteral 4OHA. A total of 13 post-menopausal women were studied before treatment and after a minimum of 4 weeks on treatment with one or more of the following doses: 125 mg once daily (od), 125 mg b.i.d. (bd) and 250 mg od. In all, seven aromatase studied were performed at 125 mg od; four, at 125 mg bd; and ten, at 250 mg od. Three patients were studied at all doses. E2 was measured concurrently and was available at all dose increments for seven patients. Given at doses of 125 mg od, 125 mg bd and 250 mg od, treatment with formestane inhibited in vivo aromatisation by 62.3%±9.5%, 70.0%±5.1% and 57.3%±5.3%, respectively (mean±SEM). Corresponding values for plasma E2 suppression were 30.7%±6.5%, 43.4%±4.5% and 42.9%±6.7%, respectively. Thus, apart from a somewhat better suppression of plasma E2 levels by the two higher doses as compared with 125 mg od, no significant difference in the degree of aromatase inhibition or plasma E2 suppression was observed. The suppression of E2 by oral 4OHA at 125 mg bd or 250 mg od approaches that achieved by the recommended parenteral schedule of 250 mg fortnightly, but inhibition of aromatase at this dose was substantially inferior. The findings are consistent with a hypothesis that 4OHA given orally may cause substantial plasma oestrogen suppression during part of the day, but neither the od nor the bd regimens investigated in the present study were capable of producing optimal aromatase inhibition


SpringerLink - Journal Article

 

[TexasLifter89]

Bump, It came in today and i'm wanting to start it with a decent taper.

 

[steveironman]

yeah im sorry the post above yours is correct ..it is virtually useless taken orally.....

 

[SamBoz19]

Austin...why are you playing around with formestane?

Anyway....personal opinion...it is best used as a TD....especially when adding it into a nice recomp/fat burner type of TD brew.

Cheers!:cheers:

 

[TexasLifter89]

yeah im sorry the post above yours is correct ..it is virtually useless taken orally.....

I have heard this, but experienced users such as bigT and others claim to have seen nice results from it. I am planning to run it orally this month and possibly transdermal next month

 

[Rodja]

Save it for a trans run. Oral requires a huge dose because it has a very poor bioavailability.

 

[TexasLifter89]

do you know if napalm or lipoderm can carry it?

 

[Rodja]

They can, but the caps are probably mainly filler and you would probably want it to be systemic instead of localized.

 

[TexasLifter89]

well I read a post on another forum where someone asked about it and they said there were no fillers. I really need to do more reading on transdermal use...

 

[thebigt]

well I read a post on another forum where someone asked about it and they said there were no fillers. I really need to do more reading on transdermal use...

i am the one who asked that question, and was told by bcs rep that it contains 100% high grade formestane with no fillers. i have used formestane many times, mainly in td. i also tried dinoii's method of 1 gram a day of bulk form orally. i have also added 10 emptied caps of formadex in a half empty bottle of dermacrine and experienced the expected results from td form. i have also used formadex orally and at 250mg have felt decent results, more than on 1 gm of bulk. i agree td is preferred method but the formestane in formadex is of high enough quality that you will see results with oral dosing. btw all bulk formestane is not equal, i have bought at 3 different sites and each have been of different quality.

 

[steveironman]

^^^ im curious what effect did this product give u esp orally ??? I mean you think the pharmaceutical study above didnt use the purest form of formastene ...also even pure formastne is very very difficult to dissolve in a transdermal prep due to molecular structure....i mean geez guys ...science doesnt lie...

 

[TexasLifter89]

^^^ im curious what effect did this product give u esp orally ??? I mean you think the pharmaceutical study above didnt use the purest form of formastene ...also even pure formastne is very very difficult to dissolve in a transdermal prep due to molecular structure....i mean geez guys ...science doesnt lie...

No but science and person experience have followed different paths multiple times in this industry. Subscribe to my log in my signature and you can see.

 

[steveironman]

the science that the product had no effect in estrogen when taken orally ...measured in a scientific, controlled medical study , under the strictest conditions for possible pharmaceutical use is wrong?? Then basic chemical structure lies (re dissolution for transdermal use)....cmon man ..i know sometimes we think things work and really believe it but the above things....dont lie...id save my $ on this one...but hey thats my opinion ..you are entitled to yours as well....
re your log - no offense at all ..seriously i mean that but ...ill stick to real scientific proof...cause the above isnt just evidence...it would be considered proof.

 

[TexasLifter89]

the science that the product had no effect in estrogen when taken orally ...measured in a scientific, controlled medical study , under the strictest conditions for possible pharmaceutical use is wrong?? Then basic chemical structure lies (re dissolution for transdermal use)....cmon man ..i know sometimes we think things work and really believe it but the above things....dont lie...id save my $ on this one...but hey thats my opinion ..you are entitled to yours as well....
re your log - no offense at all ..seriously i mean that but ...ill stick to real scientific proof...cause the above isnt just evidence...it would be considered proof.

I understand. I was not saying the studies are necessarily wrong, however, I do believe real world trials can show differently as they have with some herbs and such. I have read multiple good reviews using this orally. I have enough that I plan to run this orally first, and then a month later run transdermally to see the difference myself.

 

[steveironman]

good plan ..then you can know for yourself..and thats the best way...esp if you see science and proof but are still skeptical. Keep us posted ok?

 

[TexasLifter89]

good plan ..then you can know for yourself..and thats the best way...esp if you see science and proof but are still skeptical. Keep us posted ok?

subscribe to my log. I most likely will continue it in there. That way you can track my progress with oral formestane and then follow up on transdermal application as well.

 

[Rodja]

Herbs and hormones are 2 different beasts. With herbs, there are many actives and can be difficult to isolate the specific cause of effect(s), if any. Formestane is an AI, but also converts to 4-OHT, which is an active steroid.

 

[steveironman]

^^^ mmmm the 4oht it converts to it this - 4-hydroxytamoxifen (tamoxifen-aka nolvadex derivative) - its by no means an active steroid ...just an FYI

Plus if you cant get it in your system it converts to mothing...but anyway ...ill check out the log...but ill tell you right now....the science in this one isnt wrong ...as much as we might want it to be....it isnt ...some people need to prove that too themselve ...which is ok and by no means a slam on anyone...hopefully they just dont get sucked in by hype and repeated exaggerated manufactuer /sponsee claims and placebo effects...then they are screwed and wasting their hard earned $ for nothing.

 

[Irish Cannon]

Ya, TL, I was a little confused when you were saying TD Form is best taken at 1g/day and oral at 200mg; I'm pretty sure you have that backwards, bro.

The most I've seen taken TD in a day is 300mg.

 

[TexasLifter89]

Ya, TL, I was a little confused when you were saying TD Form is best taken at 1g/day and oral at 200mg; I'm pretty sure you have that backwards, bro.

The most I've seen taken TD in a day is 300mg.

IC thats not what i said. I said... Its 1g a day orally for bulk formestane, but formadex supposedly delivers the results equivalent to 1G bulk form at approx 200mg.

 

[Irish Cannon]

IC thats not what i said. I said... Its 1g a day orally for bulk formestane, but formadex supposedly delivers the results equivalent to 1G bulk form at approx 200mg.

Ahhh, I guess I read it wrong.

Is it supposed to be like the form that NP was talking about bringing out in bulk?

 

[TexasLifter89]

^^^ mmmm the 4oht it converts to it this - 4-hydroxytamoxifen (tamoxifen-aka nolvadex derivative) - its by no means an active steroid ...just an FYI

Plus if you cant get it in your system it converts to mothing...but anyway ...ill check out the log...but ill tell you right now....the science in this one isnt wrong ...as much as we might want it to be....it isnt ...some people need to prove that too themselve ...which is ok and by no means a slam on anyone...hopefully they just dont get sucked in by hype and repeated exaggerated manufactuer /sponsee claims and placebo effects...then they are screwed and wasting their hard earned $ for nothing.

I can assure you that is not my style. I have used enough stuff supplement, diet, and technique wise to know my body and not fall for BS.

I know it sounds like I'm being stubborn here. I guess in a way I am, but I have no problems trying it orally because I have enough to also use Transdermal. No harm done other than me wasting money if I get nothing out of it. I'll simply provide my conclusion to the situation when time comes. I believe that is fair, correct?

 

[TexasLifter89]

Ahhh, I guess I read it wrong.

Is it supposed to be like the form that NP was talking about bringing out in bulk?

No, that is my whole point to that statement. This is supposedly a better quality versus the NP Bulk Form as well as other bulk formestane. Also, not all bulk formestane was the same back in the day. Did people use it orally? I'm sure they did...did they see results if dosed high enough? I'm sure they did. This is simply my experiment to that nature. If it does not work...then it does not work. That is that.

 

[Irish Cannon]

No, that is my whole point to that statement. This is supposedly a better quality versus the NP Bulk Form as well as other bulk formestane. Also, not all bulk formestane was the same back in the day. Did people use it orally? I'm sure they did...did they see results if dosed high enough? I'm sure they did. This is simply my experiment to that nature. If it does not work...then it does not work. That is that.

Nah, there is a new Form that NP was talking about releasing. Check it out in their section. It's supposed to be taken orally.

 

[TexasLifter89]

Nah, there is a new Form that NP was talking about releasing. Check it out in their section. It's supposed to be taken orally.

so then...here is a new topic. Why would NP promote an oral formestane if oral formestane does literally nothing? Just an interesting conversation. IC I believe I heard something about this, but never I never took the time to follow up on it.

 

[steveironman]

I can assure you that is not my style. I have used enough stuff supplement, diet, and technique wise to know my body and not fall for BS.

I know it sounds like I'm being stubborn here. I guess in a way I am, but I have no problems trying it orally because I have enough to also use Transdermal. No harm done other than me wasting money if I get nothing out of it. I'll simply provide my conclusion to the situation when time comes. I believe that is fair, correct?

100% - I think i even said that in one of my earlier posts....

 

[TexasLifter89]

100% - I think i even said that in one of my earlier posts....

Yup. I am doing my research though on oral formadex outside of just the particular few I talked to who have used it. Overall result seems to be at 200mg for decent results. It all depends on how results come as to how long I will run this.

 

[thebigt]

the science that the product had no effect in estrogen when taken orally ...measured in a scientific, controlled medical study , under the strictest conditions for possible pharmaceutical use is wrong?? Then basic chemical structure lies (re dissolution for transdermal use)....cmon man ..i know sometimes we think things work and really believe it but the above things....dont lie...id save my $ on this one...but hey thats my opinion ..you are entitled to yours as well....
re your log - no offense at all ..seriously i mean that but ...ill stick to real scientific proof...cause the above isnt just evidence...it would be considered proof.

you call someone stupid, say it's just your opinion and that no offense is intended. if you are calling me a liar then say it, don't try to double talk your way into deniability. i read your post about mst's c5, and now you show up here. you want my personal opinion-you are a trouble maker.

 

[luclyluciano]

you call someone stupid, say it's just your opinion and that no offense is intended. if you are calling me a liar then say it, don't try to double talk your way into deniability. i read your post about mst's c5, and now you show up here. you want my personal opinion-you are a trouble maker.

Hey Big. I am with you. When it comes to Supps/Hormones etc. Science often is manipulated to become a Sales pitch! What good is all the supposed science in the world and no results. That's why we need Forums like AM....to hear users pesonal experiences. Science alone can be a bunch of Bullsh@#t. and most of the time it is. Science without results is useless.

 

[steveironman]

no science with no proven resullts is more useless.... and yes to ignore scientific proof that a compound simply cannot eneter your system via oral ingestion to have any effect at all re estro is stupid IMO BUT as i said to idividula prior to your post if he wants to try for himslef to prove it to himslef ..i agree 100% ...ITS AMAZING TO ME HOW EXPRESSING MY OPINION MAKES ME A TROUBLE MAKER BECASUE IT RUFFLES ALOT OF FEATHERS.... grow up if u dont like my opinion ignoreit..thats what i do when i see alot of the opinions other people give....but they are entitled to have them as am i....

 

[TexasLifter89]

well have you done research yourself about oral formestane or just simply concluded your results from that one particular study?

 

[steveironman]

I used formastene both orally and transderm(dmso) from bulknutrition 2-3 years ago ..i didnt think it did anything for me ..in fact i def experienced increases in estro levels and went to some pharma grade anti estro ... then based on scientific published results on a study to see if had merit to be pursued for pharmaceutical production my opinion was reinforced. Now as I said if you believe the higher avail in this formula or what ever and u wanna see for yourself...then go ahead for the forth time ill say it again ... i agree 100% .....

 

[TexasLifter89]

I used formastene both orally and transderm(dmso) from bulknutrition 2-3 years ago ..i didnt think it did anything for me ..in fact i def experienced increases in estro levels and went to some pharma grade anti estro ... then based on scientific published results on a study to see if had merit to be pursued for pharmaceutical production my opinion was reinforced. Now as I said if you believe the higher avail in this formula or what ever and u wanna see for yourself...then go ahead for the forth time ill say it again ... i agree 100% .....

I plan to see for myself just as you did of course. I was just curious as to what all you were basing your opinion off of.

 

[TexasLifter89]

Here are some interesting studies I figures I would post for the hell of it.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1591054?ordinalpos=16&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

43 postmenopausal breast cancer patients were treated orally with the aromatase inhibitor formestane (4-hydroxyandrostenedione) at daily doses of 62.5, 125, 250 or 500 mg for 4 weeks followed by 250 mg daily for a further 4 weeks. For some patients, 62.5 mg did not suppress serum oestradiol levels maximally. The doses of 250 and 500 mg did not differ in their effectiveness. Oestrone levels were suppressed by all doses of formestane but no consistent changes of aldosterone, cortisol or 17-hydroxyprogesterone occurred. Serum levels of sex hormone binding globulin fell by about 15% during treatment with 250 mg formestane reflecting its minor androgenic activity. The maximum concentration and area under the curve of serum formestane levels after the first dose varied in an approximately linear manner with dose. It is concluded that formestane is an effective, specific suppressant of oestradiol levels via the oral route requiring no more than 250 mg to be given daily.


Here is a study about possible different kinds of formestane and their effectiveness.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2123133?ordinalpos=22&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
A study of the aromatase inhibitor 4-hydroxy-androstenedione (4-OHA) was conducted in normal healthy men to compare the oral administration of two preparations of the drug: an unformulated, micronized powder and a formulated microcrystalline material (CGP 32349). The formulated material achieved a significantly higher mean peak concentration (88% greater than that obtained using the unformulated powder) and a higher mean AUC (not significant). The median time to peak was 1.5 h for both preparations and the elimination rate constants were similar (0.31 for micronized 4-OHA and 0.36 h-1 for formulated 4-OHA). Plasma concentrations of 4-OHA in this group were markedly lower than those previously observed in postmenopausal breast cancer patients. Significant biological activity was demonstrated with the formulated material in its suppression of plasma oestradiol levels, whereas no significant suppression was obtained using the micronized powder. An increase in androgen levels was observed that may have been due to competitive inhibition of enzymes involved in metabolic clearance of androgens and/or to decreased feedback inhibition of gonadotrophin secretion by oestradiol.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2917360?ordinalpos=23&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
4-Hydroxyandrostenedione (CGP32349; 4-OHA) is a clinically effective treatment for advanced postmenopausal breast cancer by both the parenteral and p.o. routes, as a result of its inhibition of aromatase and consequent suppression of plasma estrogen levels. Thirty patients were randomized to treatment with 250 mg 4-OHA orally once, twice, and 4 times daily for 2 weeks and 29 of these plus a further 11 patients were then randomized to treatment with 250 or 500 mg i.m. every 2 weeks to determine the optimal dose for each route according to the suppression of serum estradiol levels. There was no significant difference between the 3 oral doses in their suppression of estradiol levels indicating that the maximum required p.o. dose of 4-OHA is probably 250 mg daily. Suppression by the parenteral dose of 250 mg every 2 weeks was marginally suboptimal but clinical considerations of response and tolerability indicate this as the optimal dose for i.m. injection. 4-OHA had no effect on serum levels of androstenedione, testosterone, or 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone when given by either route but p.o. treatment with 4 doses of 250 mg daily reduced sex hormone-binding globulin levels by a mean of 34%. Serum levels of estrone as measured by gas chromatography-mass spectrometry were suppressed to approximately 40% of baseline by parenteral treatment. The half-life of 4-OHA p.o. was approximately 3 h, whereas the apparent half-life of injected drug was between 5 and 10 days after a more rapid clearance during the first 4 days after injection.

 

[steveironman]

Oh btw ...ead the last study ..it says resuls orally were suboptimal but then goes on to say im rsults were effective......maybe you can after you uses back your experince with scientific studies...i sure did ....why the need to try something that is so iffy that it will work or not??? Seems silly and a waste of money... but again its your choice (thats the fifth time now *L*..are you guys hearing me???) The rest is my OPINION ...as u are entitled to yours so am i...and to express it...
i KNOW armidex (among other prodcuts) works , and its cheaper *L* dont even have to waste my $ testing it.....(i wasnt going there as its OT) but it is so true.

 

[thebigt]

dr. dana houser better known as dinoiii conducted actual clinicals using 1 gram orally per day. his results were very good. no less than our own dr.d is a big proponent of formestane. almost everyone i know who has tried formestane has had good results. btw if you used straight dmso as a carrier for td formestane i bet you were quite the stinker.

 

[steveironman]

^^^ laughing..i hated smelling like a head of garlic...plus that stuff irritates my skin after a while(have to always rotate site ...irritation cant be a good sign)/....dont use it any more...for anything...
re formastene ...most i know say the opposite re effectiveness who knows ...maybe its the strength of androgens being used having a major impact (although back then i was using 4 ad sooo) ...shouldnt if its so effective.....anyway again .. see for yourselves if u wanna..i gave my $.02...like 15 times now..i really dont feel the need to defend it anymore....its not personal guys!!