lou38
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what is the diff between PRIME AND T-BOL besides price. it sounds like it is the same dam thing :aargh:
i used tribostan stacked with avvena sativa couple of years ago, it was very good, the mood, appetite and sense of well being were the best part not to mention libido. does t-bol use same trib as tribostan had?no they are not the same thing. you can visit our website and see the full breakdown of each ingredient, why we didnt use certain other "popular" ingredients, and it includes many links and information on the sources used. Stoked is relatively new and logs are beginning now so keep an eye on them. i can send you some links to feedback, promos, reviews, and current logs of T-bol if you would like.
im sure you can visit USP's website for Prime to get the full breakdown of their product as well, compare, and make a decision if need be. if you have any other specific question about either one just post and we'll help to answer it.
tribulus alatus have scientific studies to back up the claims, check this one :i used tribostan stacked with avvena sativa couple of years ago, it was very good, the mood, appetite and sense of well being were the best part not to mention libido. does t-bol use same trib as tribostan had?
Our old Tribosten that was developed a few years back was tribulus terrestris standardized for at least 20% protodioscin. We are in the process of releasing a new Tribosten with a refined and higher extract of tribulus alatus, which is found in T-bol. The alatus has been shown to contain at least 6 or 7 steroidal saponins that are much more potent than the ones found in the old trib. terrestris. With time and money, science and research advances.i used tribostan stacked with avvena sativa couple of years ago, it was very good, the mood, appetite and sense of well being were the best part not to mention libido. does t-bol use same trib as tribostan had?
I am thinking T-BOL + Prime would be a great stack.You could theoretically stack all three products for a unique experience.
Agree. I know, though, I will meet with resistance when I suggest the addition of Fenugreek! Yet, fenugreek is a rich source of about twelve or so steroidal saponins, the most important of which is diosgenin. Diosgenin in fenugreek is structurally similar to diosgenin in Mexican Wild Yam, used in the manufacture of synthetic testosterone. Furthermore, fenugreek has more diosgenin than tribulus terrestris (whose active ingredient is protodioscin). Other fenugreek steroidal saponins include yamogenin, tigogenin, gitogenin, yuccagenin, neotigenin, lilagenin, and so on. These saponins help strengthen the immune system and stimulate the secretion of luteinizing hormone that modulates male and female hormones. As is well known, luteinizing hormone elevates testosterone levels and spermatogenesis in men, and if the fenugreek extract is also standardized for the insulin-mimicker, 4-hydroxy-isoleucine, it also helps to drive macronutrients into skeletal muscle. In women, luteinizing hormone optimizes the estrogen:testosterone ratio and boosts libido, amongst others.I am thinking T-BOL + Prime would be a great stack.
what do you think of the fenugreek extract used in pp's phyto-test? t-bol/pyhto?Agree. I know, though, I will meet with resistance when I suggest the addition of Fenugreek! Yet, fenugreek is a rich source of about twelve or so steroidal saponins, the most important of which is diosgenin. Diosgenin in fenugreek is structurally similar to diosgenin in Mexican Wild Yam, used in the manufacture of synthetic testosterone. Furthermore, fenugreek has more diosgenin than tribulus terrestris (whose active ingredient is protodioscin). Other fenugreek steroidal saponins include yamogenin, tigogenin, gitogenin, yuccagenin, neotigenin, lilagenin, and so on. These saponins help strengthen the immune system and stimulate the secretion of luteinizing hormone that modulates male and female hormones. As is well known, luteinizing hormone elevates testosterone levels and spermatogenesis in men, and if the fenugreek extract is also standardized for the insulin-mimicker, 4-hydroxy-isoleucine, it also helps to drive macronutrients into skeletal muscle. In women, luteinizing hormone optimizes the estrogen:testosterone ratio and boosts libido, amongst others.
Primordial Performance's Phyto-Testosterone contains Testofen™ that has some research results supporting it, so it should be a fine product. I am not familiar with the product, "t-bol/phyto", so I cannot say much about its fenugreek extract. Might help, if you could post the supplement facts.what do you think of the fenugreek extract used in pp's phyto-test? t-bol/pyhto?
sorry, i meant stacking t-bol with phyto-testosterone.Primordial Performance's Phyto-Testosterone contains Testofen™ that has some research results supporting it, so it should be a fine product. I am not familiar with the product, "t-bol/phyto", so I cannot say much about its fenugreek extract. Might help, if you could post the supplement facts.
You certainly can stack T-Bol with Phyto-Testosterone . Should make a nice stack.sorry, i meant stacking t-bol with phyto-testosterone.
had nice results on dermacrine, going to stay ph free at least until first of year.You certainly can stack T-Bol with Phyto-Testosterone . Should make a nice stack.
SM can you explain in a symple way what is the mechanism of action of the tribulus aquaticus?Agree. I know, though, I will meet with resistance when I suggest the addition of Fenugreek! Yet, fenugreek is a rich source of about twelve or so steroidal saponins, the most important of which is diosgenin. Diosgenin in fenugreek is structurally similar to diosgenin in Mexican Wild Yam, used in the manufacture of synthetic testosterone. Furthermore, fenugreek has more diosgenin than tribulus terrestris (whose active ingredient is protodioscin). Other fenugreek steroidal saponins include yamogenin, tigogenin, gitogenin, yuccagenin, neotigenin, lilagenin, and so on. These saponins help strengthen the immune system and stimulate the secretion of luteinizing hormone that modulates male and female hormones. As is well known, luteinizing hormone elevates testosterone levels and spermatogenesis in men, and if the fenugreek extract is also standardized for the insulin-mimicker, 4-hydroxy-isoleucine, it also helps to drive macronutrients into skeletal muscle. In women, luteinizing hormone optimizes the estrogen:testosterone ratio and boosts libido, amongst others.
What is the exact Mechanism of Action?SM can you explain in a symple way what is the mechanism of action of the tribulus aquaticus?
I believe it would be good to have it here in this thread
thanksWhat is the exact Mechanism of Action?
We are proposing that it may work through an anti-glucocorticoid effect or perhaps by acting as a calpain inhibitor, but this is speculation based upon our pilot study, anecdotal notes & lab values. We're certain that it doesn't work through an androgenic mechanism.
Proposed mechanisms of action are great and are ideal if available, but more important factors are if the product is thought to be safe and effective.
Pointing back to drugs as an example, there are many on the market which have only proposed mechanisms or the mechanism of action is not understood very well and is mainly speculative or hypothetical.
For example, the drug modafinil, once popular with many athletes; the exact mechanism through which it promotes a state of wakefulness is unknown. This is noted by the manufacturer and can be found on the package insert.
For many drugs, it is the same case (e.g. pramipexole, the entire family of benzodiazepines, etc.). The exact mechanism through which something works is not treated as highly as knowing that it is A) safe (defined through clinical endpoints--hepatic, renal, cardiac, neurologic, hematologic evaluations in humans, etc.) and B) effective. All evidence that we have indicates the product is both. We have not noted or received any reports of adverse effects with our own testing and the plant itself has enjoyed a long history of safe consumption prior.
Naive people who have never worked in clinical research or with FDA, might believe that each and every drug or supplement they take has a clear and well established mechanism of action and they are completely wrong.
In most cases, there are nothing more than proposed mechanisms which seem to fit clinical data and as already noted previously, some are nothing more than a hypothesis with the actual mechanism of action remaining unknown. Why a supplement company would be held to higher standards than those FDA subjects drug companies is beyond comprehension.
A final note: One cannot help but be curious as to where such reservations were when it has come to the countless products currently on the market. Products from plants where the compound is sold in pure form have the compound only making up .000001% of the actual plant. Products which have never actually been consumed by humans in their normal diet in any part of the world, despite being naturally occurring, result in no history of use in humans. Or, worst of all, products which do not even fall under the DSHEA; products which have never been found in naturally occurring sources to begin with and could be looked at as unapproved drugs. These products have never been studied for mechanism of action, safety, or efficacy; have no past history of use to base recommendations on and yet it seems they are not questioned. This seems odd
What is the exact Mechanism of Action?
We are proposing that it may work through an anti-glucocorticoid effect or perhaps by acting as a calpain inhibitor, but this is speculation based upon our pilot study, anecdotal notes & lab values. We're certain that it doesn't work through an androgenic mechanism.
Proposed mechanisms of action are great and are ideal if available, but more important factors are if the product is thought to be safe and effective.
Pointing back to drugs as an example, there are many on the market which have only proposed mechanisms or the mechanism of action is not understood very well and is mainly speculative or hypothetical.
For example, the drug modafinil, once popular with many athletes; the exact mechanism through which it promotes a state of wakefulness is unknown. This is noted by the manufacturer and can be found on the package insert.
For many drugs, it is the same case (e.g. pramipexole, the entire family of benzodiazepines, etc.). The exact mechanism through which something works is not treated as highly as knowing that it is A) safe (defined through clinical endpoints--hepatic, renal, cardiac, neurologic, hematologic evaluations in humans, etc.) and B) effective. All evidence that we have indicates the product is both. We have not noted or received any reports of adverse effects with our own testing and the plant itself has enjoyed a long history of safe consumption prior.
Naive people who have never worked in clinical research or with FDA, might believe that each and every drug or supplement they take has a clear and well established mechanism of action and they are completely wrong.
In most cases, there are nothing more than proposed mechanisms which seem to fit clinical data and as already noted previously, some are nothing more than a hypothesis with the actual mechanism of action remaining unknown. Why a supplement company would be held to higher standards than those FDA subjects drug companies is beyond comprehension.
A final note: One cannot help but be curious as to where such reservations were when it has come to the countless products currently on the market. Products from plants where the compound is sold in pure form have the compound only making up .000001% of the actual plant. Products which have never actually been consumed by humans in their normal diet in any part of the world, despite being naturally occurring, result in no history of use in humans. Or, worst of all, products which do not even fall under the DSHEA; products which have never been found in naturally occurring sources to begin with and could be looked at as unapproved drugs. These products have never been studied for mechanism of action, safety, or efficacy; have no past history of use to base recommendations on and yet it seems they are not questioned. This seems odd