what is the diff between PRIME AND T-BOL

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    what is the diff between PRIME AND T-BOL


    what is the diff between PRIME AND T-BOL besides price. it sounds like it is the same dam thing

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    They are not the same product. I can assure you.
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    different tribulus genus,one is a test booster and have studies that shows it works by that pathway(among other ingredients) , the other have a different effect in the body but I think is better to be a usp rep to explain you how it works, both seem to work though
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    I believe one is trib alatus, while the other is trib aquaticus. As to what that means, I've no idea.
    The Truth is, there is no Truth.
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    the ingredients... i dont believe they share any mutual ingredients.
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    no they are not the same thing. you can visit our website and see the full breakdown of each ingredient, why we didnt use certain other "popular" ingredients, and it includes many links and information on the sources used. Stoked is relatively new and logs are beginning now so keep an eye on them. i can send you some links to feedback, promos, reviews, and current logs of T-bol if you would like.

    im sure you can visit USP's website for Prime to get the full breakdown of their product as well, compare, and make a decision if need be. if you have any other specific question about either one just post and we'll help to answer it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph4u2c View Post
    no they are not the same thing. you can visit our website and see the full breakdown of each ingredient, why we didnt use certain other "popular" ingredients, and it includes many links and information on the sources used. Stoked is relatively new and logs are beginning now so keep an eye on them. i can send you some links to feedback, promos, reviews, and current logs of T-bol if you would like.

    im sure you can visit USP's website for Prime to get the full breakdown of their product as well, compare, and make a decision if need be. if you have any other specific question about either one just post and we'll help to answer it.
    i used tribostan stacked with avvena sativa couple of years ago, it was very good, the mood, appetite and sense of well being were the best part not to mention libido. does t-bol use same trib as tribostan had?
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    The three products discussed in this thread are just that, three different products.

    Form of Tribulus in respective product:
    Thermolife T-Bol = Tribulus alatus

    Sopharma Tribestan = Tribulus terrestris

    USPlabs PRIME = Tribulus aquaticus

    You will see totally different effects from each form of 'Tribulus'. You must also take into account; potency, standardization, extraction process, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i used tribostan stacked with avvena sativa couple of years ago, it was very good, the mood, appetite and sense of well being were the best part not to mention libido. does t-bol use same trib as tribostan had?
    tribulus alatus have scientific studies to back up the claims, check this one :
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i used tribostan stacked with avvena sativa couple of years ago, it was very good, the mood, appetite and sense of well being were the best part not to mention libido. does t-bol use same trib as tribostan had?
    Our old Tribosten that was developed a few years back was tribulus terrestris standardized for at least 20% protodioscin. We are in the process of releasing a new Tribosten with a refined and higher extract of tribulus alatus, which is found in T-bol. The alatus has been shown to contain at least 6 or 7 steroidal saponins that are much more potent than the ones found in the old trib. terrestris. With time and money, science and research advances.
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    You could theoretically stack all three products for a unique experience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by borobulker View Post
    You could theoretically stack all three products for a unique experience.
    I am thinking T-BOL + Prime would be a great stack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dexterium View Post
    I am thinking T-BOL + Prime would be a great stack.
    Agree. I know, though, I will meet with resistance when I suggest the addition of Fenugreek! Yet, fenugreek is a rich source of about twelve or so steroidal saponins, the most important of which is diosgenin. Diosgenin in fenugreek is structurally similar to diosgenin in Mexican Wild Yam, used in the manufacture of synthetic testosterone. Furthermore, fenugreek has more diosgenin than tribulus terrestris (whose active ingredient is protodioscin). Other fenugreek steroidal saponins include yamogenin, tigogenin, gitogenin, yuccagenin, neotigenin, lilagenin, and so on. These saponins help strengthen the immune system and stimulate the secretion of luteinizing hormone that modulates male and female hormones. As is well known, luteinizing hormone elevates testosterone levels and spermatogenesis in men, and if the fenugreek extract is also standardized for the insulin-mimicker, 4-hydroxy-isoleucine, it also helps to drive macronutrients into skeletal muscle. In women, luteinizing hormone optimizes the estrogen:testosterone ratio and boosts libido, amongst others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Agree. I know, though, I will meet with resistance when I suggest the addition of Fenugreek! Yet, fenugreek is a rich source of about twelve or so steroidal saponins, the most important of which is diosgenin. Diosgenin in fenugreek is structurally similar to diosgenin in Mexican Wild Yam, used in the manufacture of synthetic testosterone. Furthermore, fenugreek has more diosgenin than tribulus terrestris (whose active ingredient is protodioscin). Other fenugreek steroidal saponins include yamogenin, tigogenin, gitogenin, yuccagenin, neotigenin, lilagenin, and so on. These saponins help strengthen the immune system and stimulate the secretion of luteinizing hormone that modulates male and female hormones. As is well known, luteinizing hormone elevates testosterone levels and spermatogenesis in men, and if the fenugreek extract is also standardized for the insulin-mimicker, 4-hydroxy-isoleucine, it also helps to drive macronutrients into skeletal muscle. In women, luteinizing hormone optimizes the estrogen:testosterone ratio and boosts libido, amongst others.
    what do you think of the fenugreek extract used in pp's phyto-test? t-bol/pyhto?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    what do you think of the fenugreek extract used in pp's phyto-test? t-bol/pyhto?
    Primordial Performance's Phyto-Testosterone contains Testofen™ that has some research results supporting it, so it should be a fine product. I am not familiar with the product, "t-bol/phyto", so I cannot say much about its fenugreek extract. Might help, if you could post the supplement facts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Primordial Performance's Phyto-Testosterone contains Testofen™ that has some research results supporting it, so it should be a fine product. I am not familiar with the product, "t-bol/phyto", so I cannot say much about its fenugreek extract. Might help, if you could post the supplement facts.
    sorry, i meant stacking t-bol with phyto-testosterone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    sorry, i meant stacking t-bol with phyto-testosterone.
    You certainly can stack T-Bol with Phyto-Testosterone . Should make a nice stack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    You certainly can stack T-Bol with Phyto-Testosterone . Should make a nice stack.
    had nice results on dermacrine, going to stay ph free at least until first of year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Agree. I know, though, I will meet with resistance when I suggest the addition of Fenugreek! Yet, fenugreek is a rich source of about twelve or so steroidal saponins, the most important of which is diosgenin. Diosgenin in fenugreek is structurally similar to diosgenin in Mexican Wild Yam, used in the manufacture of synthetic testosterone. Furthermore, fenugreek has more diosgenin than tribulus terrestris (whose active ingredient is protodioscin). Other fenugreek steroidal saponins include yamogenin, tigogenin, gitogenin, yuccagenin, neotigenin, lilagenin, and so on. These saponins help strengthen the immune system and stimulate the secretion of luteinizing hormone that modulates male and female hormones. As is well known, luteinizing hormone elevates testosterone levels and spermatogenesis in men, and if the fenugreek extract is also standardized for the insulin-mimicker, 4-hydroxy-isoleucine, it also helps to drive macronutrients into skeletal muscle. In women, luteinizing hormone optimizes the estrogen:testosterone ratio and boosts libido, amongst others.
    SM can you explain in a symple way what is the mechanism of action of the tribulus aquaticus?
    I believe it would be good to have it here in this thread
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    Quote Originally Posted by nunes View Post
    SM can you explain in a symple way what is the mechanism of action of the tribulus aquaticus?
    I believe it would be good to have it here in this thread
    What is the exact Mechanism of Action?

    We are proposing that it may work through an anti-glucocorticoid effect or perhaps by acting as a calpain inhibitor, but this is speculation based upon our pilot study, anecdotal notes & lab values. We're certain that it doesn't work through an androgenic mechanism.

    Proposed mechanisms of action are great and are ideal if available, but more important factors are if the product is thought to be safe and effective.

    Pointing back to drugs as an example, there are many on the market which have only proposed mechanisms or the mechanism of action is not understood very well and is mainly speculative or hypothetical.

    For example, the drug modafinil, once popular with many athletes; the exact mechanism through which it promotes a state of wakefulness is unknown. This is noted by the manufacturer and can be found on the package insert.

    For many drugs, it is the same case (e.g. pramipexole, the entire family of benzodiazepines, etc.). The exact mechanism through which something works is not treated as highly as knowing that it is A) safe (defined through clinical endpoints--hepatic, renal, cardiac, neurologic, hematologic evaluations in humans, etc.) and B) effective. All evidence that we have indicates the product is both. We have not noted or received any reports of adverse effects with our own testing and the plant itself has enjoyed a long history of safe consumption prior.

    Naive people who have never worked in clinical research or with FDA, might believe that each and every drug or supplement they take has a clear and well established mechanism of action and they are completely wrong.

    In most cases, there are nothing more than proposed mechanisms which seem to fit clinical data and as already noted previously, some are nothing more than a hypothesis with the actual mechanism of action remaining unknown. Why a supplement company would be held to higher standards than those FDA subjects drug companies is beyond comprehension.

    A final note: One cannot help but be curious as to where such reservations were when it has come to the countless products currently on the market. Products from plants where the compound is sold in pure form have the compound only making up .000001% of the actual plant. Products which have never actually been consumed by humans in their normal diet in any part of the world, despite being naturally occurring, result in no history of use in humans. Or, worst of all, products which do not even fall under the DSHEA; products which have never been found in naturally occurring sources to begin with and could be looked at as unapproved drugs. These products have never been studied for mechanism of action, safety, or efficacy; have no past history of use to base recommendations on and yet it seems they are not questioned. This seems odd
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    Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs View Post
    What is the exact Mechanism of Action?

    We are proposing that it may work through an anti-glucocorticoid effect or perhaps by acting as a calpain inhibitor, but this is speculation based upon our pilot study, anecdotal notes & lab values. We're certain that it doesn't work through an androgenic mechanism.

    Proposed mechanisms of action are great and are ideal if available, but more important factors are if the product is thought to be safe and effective.

    Pointing back to drugs as an example, there are many on the market which have only proposed mechanisms or the mechanism of action is not understood very well and is mainly speculative or hypothetical.

    For example, the drug modafinil, once popular with many athletes; the exact mechanism through which it promotes a state of wakefulness is unknown. This is noted by the manufacturer and can be found on the package insert.

    For many drugs, it is the same case (e.g. pramipexole, the entire family of benzodiazepines, etc.). The exact mechanism through which something works is not treated as highly as knowing that it is A) safe (defined through clinical endpoints--hepatic, renal, cardiac, neurologic, hematologic evaluations in humans, etc.) and B) effective. All evidence that we have indicates the product is both. We have not noted or received any reports of adverse effects with our own testing and the plant itself has enjoyed a long history of safe consumption prior.

    Naive people who have never worked in clinical research or with FDA, might believe that each and every drug or supplement they take has a clear and well established mechanism of action and they are completely wrong.

    In most cases, there are nothing more than proposed mechanisms which seem to fit clinical data and as already noted previously, some are nothing more than a hypothesis with the actual mechanism of action remaining unknown. Why a supplement company would be held to higher standards than those FDA subjects drug companies is beyond comprehension.

    A final note: One cannot help but be curious as to where such reservations were when it has come to the countless products currently on the market. Products from plants where the compound is sold in pure form have the compound only making up .000001% of the actual plant. Products which have never actually been consumed by humans in their normal diet in any part of the world, despite being naturally occurring, result in no history of use in humans. Or, worst of all, products which do not even fall under the DSHEA; products which have never been found in naturally occurring sources to begin with and could be looked at as unapproved drugs. These products have never been studied for mechanism of action, safety, or efficacy; have no past history of use to base recommendations on and yet it seems they are not questioned. This seems odd
    thanks
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    Nowhere did he ask for an exact mechanism of action nor do most expect you to list specific pathways. What people want is a general idea of how this product is "working". Modafinil increases monoamine neurotransmitters is likely sufficient for most.

    Coincidentally, could you release these lab values or other pertinent data that led you to this conclusion? Or shall we assume such would jeopardize the product in some manner?


    Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs View Post
    What is the exact Mechanism of Action?

    We are proposing that it may work through an anti-glucocorticoid effect or perhaps by acting as a calpain inhibitor, but this is speculation based upon our pilot study, anecdotal notes & lab values. We're certain that it doesn't work through an androgenic mechanism.

    Proposed mechanisms of action are great and are ideal if available, but more important factors are if the product is thought to be safe and effective.

    Pointing back to drugs as an example, there are many on the market which have only proposed mechanisms or the mechanism of action is not understood very well and is mainly speculative or hypothetical.

    For example, the drug modafinil, once popular with many athletes; the exact mechanism through which it promotes a state of wakefulness is unknown. This is noted by the manufacturer and can be found on the package insert.

    For many drugs, it is the same case (e.g. pramipexole, the entire family of benzodiazepines, etc.). The exact mechanism through which something works is not treated as highly as knowing that it is A) safe (defined through clinical endpoints--hepatic, renal, cardiac, neurologic, hematologic evaluations in humans, etc.) and B) effective. All evidence that we have indicates the product is both. We have not noted or received any reports of adverse effects with our own testing and the plant itself has enjoyed a long history of safe consumption prior.

    Naive people who have never worked in clinical research or with FDA, might believe that each and every drug or supplement they take has a clear and well established mechanism of action and they are completely wrong.

    In most cases, there are nothing more than proposed mechanisms which seem to fit clinical data and as already noted previously, some are nothing more than a hypothesis with the actual mechanism of action remaining unknown. Why a supplement company would be held to higher standards than those FDA subjects drug companies is beyond comprehension.

    A final note: One cannot help but be curious as to where such reservations were when it has come to the countless products currently on the market. Products from plants where the compound is sold in pure form have the compound only making up .000001% of the actual plant. Products which have never actually been consumed by humans in their normal diet in any part of the world, despite being naturally occurring, result in no history of use in humans. Or, worst of all, products which do not even fall under the DSHEA; products which have never been found in naturally occurring sources to begin with and could be looked at as unapproved drugs. These products have never been studied for mechanism of action, safety, or efficacy; have no past history of use to base recommendations on and yet it seems they are not questioned. This seems odd
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