Cycle support (AI) or Cycle assist (CEL)

[Riquee]

Both are great companies with great products..Congrats to CEL with C-Assist and all new products..and AI, you always deliverd innovative quality goodies..keep up the good work:clap2:


I and many of the members are interested in which of the two you would like to use in the near future, and why?

I used AI's CS in the past and am very pleased with it..I always wanted to see it capped for a reasonable price, and this never happened(life support is a bit expensive for ME! and of course I know capping the product cost more and the ingred. list is worth it).

I will vote for now : C-Assist (CEL)..

Why : it is cheaper / no RYR and the ingredient profile is good enough for supporting/assisting a cycle:thumbsup:


Much love from Amsterdam

 

[DrakeC]

Both are great products no doubt.

I will go with CA next time for the reasons you listed; price, its capped and also because im not a fan of RYR.

 

[Steveoph]

CS has been around a while with great feedback, and a very solid ingredient list. CA is a newer and a capped product that has a good ingredient profile as well.

The main difference is serving size; with CS you get 1 & 1.2g vs. 0.5 & 0.75 of Milk Thistle as NAC as examples. I haven`t done the full math, but CS provides the convenience of being capped.I like the inclusion of RYR and Idebenone in CS though.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

I agree that Cycle Support has more of some of the ingredients such as milk thistle and hawthorne berry:thumbsup:

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Here are the ingredients of the products. And just so people know RYR free Cycle Support is still available

CYCLE ASSIST

N-Acetyl-l-Cysteine 750 mg **
Milk Thistle (Standardized to 80% Silymarin) 500 mg **
Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B-5) 500 mg 5000%
Hawthorn Berry Extract (Satndardized to 1.8% Vitexin) 300 mg **
Vitamin B-6 (Pyridoxine HCL) 200 mg 10000%
Saw Palmetto Extract (Standardized to 45% Fatty Acids) 160 mg **
Celery Seed Extract (10:1) 75 mg **
Grape Seed Extract (95% Proanthocyanidins) 75 mg **
Policosanol 20 mg **
Zinc Gluconate 15 mg 100%


Cycle Support

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Red Yeast Rice 1200mg **
Silymarin (milk thistle extract) 1000mg **
NAC 1200mg **
Hawthron Bery 1000mg **
Saw Palmetto 300mg **
Policosonol 20mg **
Celery Seed Extract 150mg **
Nettle Root 250mg **
Idebenone 100mg **

 

[mw1]

Cycle assist:head:
If you look there is a difference in the Hawthorn:duel: Your turn Pem!

 

[Riquee]

Here are the ingredients of the products. And just so people know RYR free Cycle Support is still available

CYCLE ASSIST

N-Acetyl-l-Cysteine 750 mg **
Milk Thistle (Standardized to 80% Silymarin) 500 mg **
Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B-5) 500 mg 5000%
Hawthorn Berry Extract (Satndardized to 1.8% Vitexin) 300 mg **
Vitamin B-6 (Pyridoxine HCL) 200 mg 10000%
Saw Palmetto Extract (Standardized to 45% Fatty Acids) 160 mg **
Celery Seed Extract (10:1) 75 mg **
Grape Seed Extract (95% Proanthocyanidins) 75 mg **
Policosanol 20 mg **
Zinc Gluconate 15 mg 100%


Cycle Support

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Red Yeast Rice 1200mg **
Silymarin (milk thistle extract) 1000mg **
NAC 1200mg **
Hawthron Bery 1000mg **
Saw Palmetto 300mg **
Policosonol 20mg **
Celery Seed Extract 150mg **
Nettle Root 250mg **
Idebenone 100mg **

Isn't this list based on 30 servings for CS and 60 for CA?

C-assist should be dosed at 8 caps which will give you 30 servings, the above is based on 4 caps for C-assist, right?

so the C-assist would look like this:

240 caps each serving is 4 caps, recommended dose on cycle is 8 caps which will provide the following:

CYCLE ASSIST

N-Acetyl-l-Cysteine 1500 mg **
Milk Thistle (Standardized to 80% Silymarin) 1000 mg **
Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B-5) 1000 mg
Hawthorn Berry Extract (Satndardized to 1.8% Vitexin) 600 mg **
Vitamin B-6 (Pyridoxine HCL) 400 mg
Saw Palmetto Extract (Standardized to 45% Fatty Acids) 320 mg **
Celery Seed Extract (10:1) 150 mg **
Grape Seed Extract (95% Proanthocyanidins) 150 mg **
Policosanol 40 mg **
Zinc Gluconate 30 mg

Do not hate if am wrong here :nutkick:

Cycle Support

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value

Red Yeast Rice 1200mg **
Silymarin (milk thistle extract) 1000mg **
NAC 1200mg **
Hawthron Bery 1000mg **
Saw Palmetto 300mg **
Policosonol 20mg **
Celery Seed Extract 150mg **
Nettle Root 250mg **
Idebenone 100mg **

 

[Riquee]

Cycle assist:head:
If you look there is a difference in the Hawthorn:duel: Your turn Pem!

Am I right MW ?

 

[amino89]

Both are solid products, personally I like to invest in the original innovators. Ex: X-Factor rather then > Hyper H. :duel: Of course take my opinion with a grain of salt due to my affiliation.

 

[MrBrightside]

Both are solid products, personally I like to invest in the original innovators. Ex: X-Factor rather then > Hyper H. :duel: Of course take my opinion with a grain of salt due to my affiliation.

X-Factor is a better value, anyway.

*Refrains from voting*

 

[futurepilot]

200-400mg of B-6 worries me, especially on a 4wk+ cycle

 

[CROWLER]

CYCLE ASSIST

N-Acetyl-l-Cysteine 1500 mg **
Milk Thistle (Standardized to 80% Silymarin) 1000 mg **
Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B-5) 1000 mg
Hawthorn Berry Extract (Satndardized to 1.8% Vitexin) 600 mg **
Vitamin B-6 (Pyridoxine HCL) 400 mg
Saw Palmetto Extract (Standardized to 45% Fatty Acids) 320 mg **
Celery Seed Extract (10:1) 150 mg **
Grape Seed Extract (95% Proanthocyanidins) 150 mg **
Policosanol 40 mg **
Zinc Gluconate 30 mg

Too much vitamin B6 can result in nerve damage to the arms and legs.

Several reports show neuropathy in people using less than 500 mg per day [1].

The Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine has established an upper tolerable
intake level (UL) for vitamin B6 of 100 mg per day for all adults


Check your supplements and see how much B6 it contains.


[1]. "As intake increases above the UL, the risk of adverse effects increases [1]."

1. Institute of Medicine. Food and Nutrition Board. Dietary Reference Intakes: Thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, vitamin B6, folate, vitamin B12, pantothenic acid, biotin, and choline.


2. Selhub J, Jacques PF, Bostom AG, D'Agostino RB, Wilson PW, Belanger AJ, O'Leary DH, Wolf PA, Scaefer EJ, Rosenberg IH. Association between plasma homocysteine concentrations and extracranial carotid-artery stenosis. N Engl J Med 1995; 332:286-291. [PubMed abstract]



CROWLER

 

[UTADAHOLIC]

i haven't used cycle assist. but im going to have to vote for it just because CS tastes so bad (no hate)... lol.

on my next methylated cycle, i am for sure going to go with cycle assist

 

[DAdams91982]

I guess no one realizes why AI does a powder. Maybe its cause to pack that amount of material into capsules makes it 8+ caps. Seriously... who wants to take 8 more caps?

Its a scoop and chase. No big deal. No respect for AI + Lake, who brought this to the industry. I guess I just dont understand the voting for something you havent used, but I guess that is just me.

Adams

 

[Riquee]

I guess no one realizes why AI does a powder. Maybe its cause to pack that amount of material into capsules makes it 8+ caps. Seriously... who wants to take 8 more caps?

Its a scoop and chase. No big deal. No respect for AI + Lake, who brought this to the industry. I guess I just dont understand the voting for something you havent used, but I guess that is just me.

Adams

Of course we all have our thoughts about this:

*I for one really like the capped formula for when I am away from home (work...)..was happy to see Life support but the price is way too high for on cycle use!
*I do think if a company has problems with another company, let them sort it out, we are just the cash machine who like to buy a product which delivers whitin our budget..
*The voting is not that strange, is it? I mean it's just a comparisson of the ingredient profile of a new almost similar to an already great product which is not capped and more expensive for many supp."junckies" (supp. junckie does not mean buyers of crap supp's
If one would thinks one of the 2 is the better, they ll share their why's and why nots :thumbsup:

BTW: congrats with Reverse, looking forward to try it. next voting poll will be Reverse/stoked lol.. that will be a voting poll about the results not the ingr. profile.

 

[DAdams91982]

Of course we all have our thoughts about this:

*I for one really like the capped formula for when I am away from home (work...)..was happy to see Life support but the price is way too high for on cycle use!
*I do think if a company has problems with another company, let them sort it out, we are just the cash machine who like to buy a product which delivers whitin our budget..
*The voting is not that strange, is it? I mean it's just a comparisson of the ingredient profile of a new almost similar to an already great product which is not capped and more expensive for many supp."junckies" (supp. junckie does not mean buyers of crap supp's
If one would thinks one of the 2 is the better, they ll share their why's and why nots :thumbsup:

BTW: congrats with Reverse, looking forward to try it. next voting poll will be Reverse/stoked lol.. that will be a voting poll about the results not the ingr. profile.

AI and IBE have their products aimed at two different audiences, and thus we are not competing. The chemist of IBE is the person that designed CS while working with AI. So we are a pretty tight knit bunch.

Though you do bring up a valid point, even this poll should be based on results. Thats why I have a problem with this poll, is that people are basing a vote for something they have not tried before. I have no doubt CEL has a good product, but voting for something you havent tried is backward a bit. This is just my opinion, and mine alone.

Adams

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Am I right MW ?

You are right bro:thumbsup:

 

[Riquee]

You are right bro:thumbsup:

thx Pem..:thumbsup:

Now the only thing that worries me is the high dose B6..I am looking into it before trying the new product. I know many highdose on B6 during cycles against prolactin issues..of course that does not mean high dose is ok..

The quiz continues..:lol:

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Riq, thanks for providing the proper comparison.


Both are great products IMO

 

[Usf97j4x4]

thx Pem..:thumbsup:

Now the only thing that worries me is the high dose B6..I am looking into it before trying the new product. I know many highdose on B6 during cycles against prolactin issues..of course that does not mean high dose is ok..

The quiz continues..:lol:

You should explore the relationship between dietary b6 intake and blood concentration levels. It might surprise you.

 

[stxnas]

I guess no one realizes why AI does a powder. Maybe its cause to pack that amount of material into capsules makes it 8+ caps. Seriously... who wants to take 8 more caps?

Its a scoop and chase. No big deal. No respect for AI + Lake, who brought this to the industry. I guess I just dont understand the voting for something you havent used, but I guess that is just me.

Adams

I guess the older guys remember why Cycle Support was originally created...people were *****ing about how many pills they had to take throughout their cycles!

Both products are solid IMO and both have their own intrinsic values. Do your research and choose the one that you feel is best suited for your needs. If you ask me though, you already know what I will be suggesting.

I <3 LMD :lol:

 

[Usf97j4x4]

I guess the older guys remember why Cycle Support was originally created...people were *****ing about how many pills they had to take throughout their cycles!

Both products are solid IMO and both have their own intrinsic values. Do your research and choose the one that you feel is best suited for your needs. If you ask me though, you already know what I will be suggesting.

I <3 LMD :lol:

It does get ridiculous when you're popping 45 pills a day, lol

 

[Big BAMA]

I have to go with cycle support. I have used it too many times with good results to go against it.

 

[TommyTuffGuy]

Those are both good, what do you guys think of a very affordable SNS Liver Assist XT?

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Those are both good, what do you guys think of a very affordable SNS Liver Assist XT?

That is an awesome product... I am definitely going to try it on my next cycle.

 

[futurepilot]

You should explore the relationship between dietary b6 intake and blood concentration levels. It might surprise you.

What do you mean?

 

[Usf97j4x4]

What do you mean?

I was reading some studies that suggest that only a minor portion of dietary B6 actually makes it into your bloodstream but i'm still reading up to determine the %, etc. Getting side tracked by the political announcement today.

 

[stxnas]

She's kind of hot for an older lady :run:

 

[Usf97j4x4]

She's kind of hot for an older lady :run:

Shes a governor i'd like to.. GILF lol

Although she has a manly mandible.. kind of a man chin and jaw line.

 

[futurepilot]

I was reading some studies that suggest that only a minor portion of dietary B6 actually makes it into your bloodstream but i'm still reading up to determine the %, etc. Getting side tracked by the political announcement today.

If you find any studys that show B6 to be non-toxic at upper level dosages let me know.

And McCains running mate? I think it genius, but thats another thread...

 

[Usf97j4x4]

If you find any studys that show B6 to be non-toxic at upper level dosages let me know.

And McCains running mate? I think it genius, but thats another thread...

I've found a few so far but the dosages are higher than Cycle Assist. Always going to be some outliers at lower doses and some that megadose it with no problems... just like anything IMO. I am also looking into the timeframe... i.e. 30 days of use. The "typical" danger zone from studies i'm reading is 2,000 Mg per day.

FP, man come check my thread in the politics section right now.. good stuff.. i was surprised you arent there yet.

 

[Force of Green]

It's pretty cool of CEL to make a capped product with an amazing profile like that.

I've used Cycle Support to void the negatives of a pretty hefty cycle and it got the job done well. The taste of the PB flavor was quite good mixed with vanilla Oryx Goat Whey protein.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

It's pretty cool of CEL to make a capped product with an amazing profile like that.

I've used Cycle Support to void the negatives of a pretty hefty cycle and it got the job done well. The taste of the PB flavor was quite good mixed with vanilla Oryx Goat Whey protein.

We got lots of stuff coming out, stay tuned

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

It does get ridiculous when you're popping 45 pills a day, lol

Cannot argue that. I did not run Cycle Support on my 1st cycle and had a hard time remembering damn did I take this pillor was it that pill and how many times a day:thumbsup:

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Cannot argue that. I did not run Cycle Support on my 1st cycle and had a hard time remembering damn did I take this pillor was it that pill and how many times a day:thumbsup:

I have one of those old person rotary pill boxes LOL

 

[Ziquor]

Isn't this list based on 30 servings for CS and 60 for CA?

C-assist should be dosed at 8 caps which will give you 30 servings, the above is based on 4 caps for C-assist, right?

so the C-assist would look like this:

240 caps each serving is 4 caps, recommended dose on cycle is 8 caps which will provide the following:

CYCLE ASSIST

N-Acetyl-l-Cysteine 1500 mg **
Milk Thistle (Standardized to 80% Silymarin) 1000 mg **
Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B-5) 1000 mg
Hawthorn Berry Extract (Satndardized to 1.8% Vitexin) 600 mg **
Vitamin B-6 (Pyridoxine HCL) 400 mg
Saw Palmetto Extract (Standardized to 45% Fatty Acids) 320 mg **
Celery Seed Extract (10:1) 150 mg **
Grape Seed Extract (95% Proanthocyanidins) 150 mg **
Policosanol 40 mg **
Zinc Gluconate 30 mg

Do not hate if am wrong here :nutkick:

Cycle Support

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value

Red Yeast Rice 1200mg **
Silymarin (milk thistle extract) 1000mg **
NAC 1200mg **
Hawthron Bery 1000mg **
Saw Palmetto 300mg **
Policosonol 20mg **
Celery Seed Extract 150mg **
Nettle Root 250mg **
Idebenone 100mg **

Ours is labeled at half the daily provided serving - so you are correct there sir. I've never seen any documented cases of health issues solely from Pyridoxine HCL with the exception of cases where it was used in doses from 2,000-6,000mg ED for months. Also AAS can lower B6 levels as the B6 will stop prolactin build-up and can help with acne. Both are great products with similar ingredient profiles :thumbsup: I'd make my decision on Hawthorn Extract as its benefits come from vitexin, along with cost. (Plus I may be a little bias)

 

[futurepilot]

There's never been any documented cases of health issues solely from Pyridoxine HCL with the exception of cases where it was used in doses from 2,000-6,000mg ED for months. Also AAS can lower B6 levels.

I think you may be overstating the safeness of B6.

The patients were taking 24 and 40 mg per day, respectively. Neurotoxic syndromes due to pyridoxine overdose have been described before in patients taking high-dose vitamin B.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16320661?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus


Neurological damage has been reported at extremely high intakes (in excess of 500 mg/d), and even more modest doses (50-100 mg/d) cannot be regarded as being without hazard.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2661220

 

[Ziquor]

I think you may be overstating the safeness of B6.

The patients were taking 24 and 40 mg per day, respectively. Neurotoxic syndromes due to pyridoxine overdose have been described before in patients taking high-dose vitamin B.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16320661?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus


Neurological damage has been reported at extremely high intakes (in excess of 500 mg/d), and even more modest doses (50-100 mg/d) cannot be regarded as being without hazard.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2661220

The study was pretty vague with males in their 60's with no mention of previous medical history. If you have any detailed clinical diagnoses stemming from sole B6 use I'd love to see them though. In young males on steroids the situation is much different. Many ingredients, including those in the two aforementioned polled supplements can be dangerous when used in the wrong situations.

 

[futurepilot]

If you have any detailed clinical diagnoses stemming from sole B6 use I'd love to see them though.

Burden of proof would be on you in this instance if you can find studies that show that it's not toxic i would be interested to see them.

I think Usf97j4x4 is looking for said studies also.

 

[LatSpread]

I voted for Cycle Support, I dont mind the taste and its a great value compared to Life Support, the capped version, or even to Cycle Assist.

When talking CS vs CA its not even close, LS vs CA would have been a more accurate title.

 

[Ziquor]

Burden of proof would be on you in this instance if you can find studies that show that it's not toxic i would be interested to see them.

I think Usf97j4x4 is looking for said studies also.

The DEA approved 500mg caps for sale long ago. In people with deficiency such as AAS cycles the benefits outweigh the risk, just as with RYR.

 

[futurepilot]

The DEA approved 500mg caps for sale long ago. In people with deficiency such as AAS cycles the benefits outweigh the risk, just as with RYR.

Wow, now were using the DEA as a reliable source of sound judgement? And do you mean FDA?

Im not trying to bash CEL, I feel its a reasonable query. I, along with many others, have read study after study that say that B6 is toxic, I would just like to be proven wrong, before I decide to take an excessive dose of B6 for an extended period of time, fair enough?

 

[Daminals]

I voted for Cycle Support, I dont mind the taste and its a great value compared to Life Support, the capped version, or even to Cycle Assist.

When talking CS vs CA its not even close, LS vs CA would have been a more accurate title.

Doesn't make sense. With both these supps you get a month supply and the daily doses are about the same but CA is $14 cheaper FTW :head:

 

[LatSpread]

Doesn't make sense. With both these supps you get a month supply and the daily doses are about the same but CA is $14 cheaper FTW :head:

my bad I was misled in the comparison by that damn "amount per serving....2 servings provide" on the Cycle Support bottle. Looks like CEL's product really is the way to go, repped for clearing that one up for me, I'll have to give CEL my business the next go round.

 

[Ziquor]

Wow, now were using the DEA as a reliable source of sound judgement? And do you mean FDA?

Im not trying to bash CEL, I feel its a reasonable query. I, along with many others, have read study after study that say that B6 is toxic, I would just like to be proven wrong, before I decide to take an excessive dose of B6 for an extended period of time, fair enough?

Understood, everything's toxic at some point.

Can you get too much B6? Yes, but you have to really work at it. Doses of more than 1,000 milligrams a day for more than 90 days can cause tingling, numbness, or burning in the fingers and toes.

<-- This is in regular individuals with normal homocysteine levels as those with elevated homocysteine levels would have an even higher threshold.

 

[Ziquor]

Wow, now were using the DEA as a reliable source of sound judgement? And do you mean FDA?

Im not trying to bash CEL, I feel its a reasonable query. I, along with many others, have read study after study that say that B6 is toxic, I would just like to be proven wrong, before I decide to take an excessive dose of B6 for an extended period of time, fair enough?

I wouldn't recommend someone who's not taking steroids to take higher levels of Vitamin B6. However Anabolic / Androgenic steroids increase homocysteine levels which in turn can cause a plethora of severe issues including hardening of the arteries / atherosclerosis which leads to a greatly increased risk of stoke and heart disease. Vitamin B6 in higher dosed (500-1,500mg per day) has shown to effectively decrease and normalize homocysteine levels and it’s been safely used in numerous individuals with elevated homocysteine levels.

Again I would recommend it for those not taking AAS but for those who are On a cycle or have elevated homocysteine levels due to schizophrenia or other disorders which can increase homocysteine, it can be safely used and it can also have a tremendous amount of health benefits for these aforementioned individuals. Below is a study where it was safely and effectively used to normalize homocysteine at 1,200mg per day. I’d say if it still makes you uncomfortable to try Cycle Support as I mentioned both are great products :thumbsup:


High-dose vitamin B6 decreases homocysteine serum ...[Clin Neuropharmacol. 2007 Jan-Feb] - PubMed Result

 

[futurepilot]

Again I would recommend it for those not taking AAS but for those who are On a cycle or have elevated homocysteine levels due to schizophrenia or other disorders which can increase homocysteine, it can be safely used and it can also have a tremendous amount of health benefits for these aforementioned individuals. Below is a study where it was safely and effectively used to normalize homocysteine at 1,200mg per day. I’d say if it still makes you uncomfortable to try Cycle Support as I mentioned both are great products :thumbsup:


High-dose vitamin B6 decreases homocysteine serum ...[Clin Neuropharmacol. 2007 Jan-Feb] - PubMed Result

"High doses of vitamin B6 lead to a decrease in Hcy serum level in male patients with schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder."

I would like to use Cycle Assist, I'm just trying to get you guys to do my research for me:thumbsup: It's cheaper that CS and I like taking pills.

I'm just wary of any sort of nerve damage, in my chosen profession i couldn't afford it.

 

[rabican]

any updates on studies that prove futurepilot wrong?

??...so i assume taking a b-complex + CA would be a BAD idea??

 

[rabican]

The DEA approved 500mg caps for sale long ago. In people with deficiency such as AAS cycles the benefits outweigh the risk, just as with RYR.

fda?...but AI offers a RYR free version, you guys could possibly do the same or lower the dosage and add some idlebone

 

[Chub]

I'd go for cycle support. I HATE the taste of the peanut butter but it does come in half the dose capped (life support) which is great for PCT