Bulbine Natalenisis

[baxtecal]

Hey guys, i usually just read and dont post often but i plan to be more involved soon lol, but however, i have been hearing alot about Bulbine Natalensis for quite a while, and PowderCity emailed me (bulk powder company) emailed me saying they got more in, so i went to the page and it had an "Examine" tab to I clicked on it and it said "Bulbine Natalensis is a traditionally used aphrodisiac and Testosterone Booster in South and South-Eastern Africa; in rat studies, it appears to both be quite potent in increasing testosterone but also appears to damage organ function in a similar manner to a steroid cycle." as stated on Examine. com; I would like to know yalls input on this claim? thanks alot

 

[Young Gotti]

Hey guys, i usually just read and dont post often but i plan to be more involved soon lol, but however, i have been hearing alot about Bulbine Natalensis for quite a while, and PowderCity emailed me (bulk powder company) emailed me saying they got more in, so i went to the page and it had an "Examine" tab to I clicked on it and it said "Bulbine Natalensis is a traditionally used aphrodisiac and Testosterone Booster in South and South-Eastern Africa; in rat studies, it appears to both be quite potent in increasing testosterone but also appears to damage organ function in a similar manner to a steroid cycle." as stated on Examine. com; I would like to know yalls input on this claim? thanks alot

i really enjoy bulbine for test boosting properties, i really enjoy the changes it has on my body....but it has been shown to affect your liver so i'd always recommend to take similar liver products as if you were running a ph cycle

 

[mr.cooper69]

i really enjoy bulbine for test boosting properties, i really enjoy the changes it has on my body....but it has been shown to affect your liver so i'd always recommend to take similar liver products as if you were running a ph cycle

Incorrect. There is no effect on liver in human studies, only rodent

 

[Young Gotti]

Incorrect. There is no effect on liver in human studies, only rodent

i believe ben esgro tested it on himself and his liver values were affected, unless i misheard him, it's been awhile

i've seen tests on a human but only paid attention to the test and estrogen side of things

 

[mr.cooper69]

i believe ben esgro tested it on himself and his liver values were affected, unless i misheard him, it's been awhile

i've seen tests on a human but only paid attention to the test and estrogen side of things

There are actually no human tests on estrogen or testosterone. There's only a safety study and it showed no effect on liver or kidney values

 

[baxtecal]

thanks for the responses guys, seems to kinda still be up for debate

 

[The_Old_Guy]

That Safety Study was:

Acknowledgements

Supported in part by a research grant from Sports Nutrition Research, LTD (Franklin Square, NY).

from the Prolensis producer. Does it mean anything? Maybe, maybe not, but I use Liver Support whenever I use Bulbine. Not TUDCA, but the general stuff, just in case.

 

[mr.cooper69]

That Safety Study was:



from the Prolensis producer. Does it mean anything? Maybe, maybe not, but I use Liver Support whenever I use Bulbine. Not TUDCA, but the general stuff, just in case.

It doesn't mean anything. You can't really skew a safety study like you can with performance studies.

 

[SuppWithThat]

Out of all the alleged herbal test-boosters we've come across this is probably the most intriguing because of the sheer magnitude of the Testosterone increases seen in rats. I'd be curious to hear if anyone on this site has any personal experience with Bulbine Natalensis!

 

[mr.cooper69]

Out of all the alleged herbal test-boosters we've come across this is probably the most intriguing because of the sheer magnitude of the Testosterone increases seen in rats. I'd be curious to hear if anyone on this site has any personal experience with Bulbine Natalensis!

Relatively speaking, the magnitude is actually quite low. I'm not sure why it gets so much attention...marketing I guess. Tribulus alatus produces a 2200% increase in T in rats, for instance

 

[Young Gotti]

Out of all the alleged herbal test-boosters we've come across this is probably the most intriguing because of the sheer magnitude of the Testosterone increases seen in rats. I'd be curious to hear if anyone on this site has any personal experience with Bulbine Natalensis!

i'm a big fan of bulbine when i used it....one of the few test boosters in which i saw results in the gym and mirror, i got stronger and notice a nice leaning effect and my libido was through the roof...i know this doesn't verify a huge jump in test boosting but either way the results i saw were great

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I have Anacyclus, Bulbine, and Fadogia waiting after I finish my PH Cycle and PCT. Maybe I'll add T. Alatus too? I know from an economic standpoint, one should try each one separately and judge... but 8 week cycles with 4 weeks off...it would take a year. Glad to hear about your Bulbine experience, thanks.

 

[totalpackage]

Out of all the alleged herbal test-boosters we've come across this is probably the most intriguing because of the sheer magnitude of the Testosterone increases seen in rats. I'd be curious to hear if anyone on this site has any personal experience with Bulbine Natalensis!

I've run a few cycles of Bulbine and really enjoy the effects and I've used it no longer than 6 weeks at a time and I
highly recommend SNS Bulbine because it's pure Bulbine in a effective 1 cap dose. I did a full review on it so check it
out in the review section and once again SNS does a quality version of it at a good $.

 

[baxtecal]

I've run a few cycles of Bulbine and really enjoy the effects and I've used it no longer than 6 weeks at a time and I highly recommend SNS Bulbine because it's pure Bulbine in a effective 1 cap dose. I did a full review on it so check it out in the review section and once again SNS does a quality version of it at a good $.

Awsome! I'm looking forward to the effects. I just started the Iron Stack by ironchampusa, and I'm on day 2 and my libido is already through the roof! It's awsome. And I through in some t-force

 

[Young Gotti]

Awsome! I'm looking forward to the effects. I just started the Iron Stack by ironchampusa, and I'm on day 2 and my libido is already through the roof! It's awsome. And I through in some t-force

yeah that stuff will have you humping your doggs leg rather than the other way around

 

[ucheoma]

question if I may. One I have asked before but not had a response. Has anyone has labs done before/after taking bulbine. All Ive seen in terms of results is the now too often spun 347% figure which of course applies to rodents. happy if anyone can share or pint be to some human lab results.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I haven't seen any. Most people won't spend $100 on bloodwork, to see what a $20 supplement will do.

 

[Synapsin]

question if I may. One I have asked before but not had a response. Has anyone has labs done before/after taking bulbine. All Ive seen in terms of results is the now too often spun 347% figure which of course applies to rodents. happy if anyone can share or pint be to some human lab results.

I have never seen blood work for this.

 

[ucheoma]

Disagree. Overgeneralisation. Have found lab results for plenty of test boosters on the web, but can find anything on Prolensis.

I haven't seen any. Most people won't spend $100 on bloodwork, to see what a $20 supplement will do.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

How about you take it, and get blood-work done then?

 

[ucheoma]

Based on hard experience of falling for the hype on products that don't deliver, I now stick with products that I can find hard data on to justify spending money on these. I now go with tried and tested. Not a new adopter!!: One of such negative experience was spending nearly £50 on Phytoserms 347 (Prolensis brand) when Bulbine was the next big thing 3 or 4 years ago, I used the recommended dose, no more no less. Ran labs, no increase whatsoever which is why I am keen to find any hard data by other users of Prolelensis to verify my experience

Also, the idea that its not worth spending $100 to test a $20 product is is a bit of a false equation. Firstly, majority of decent test boosters (not AI) generally retail for $30 upwards, not $20. Secondly users will not run these one off. They will tend to stick with a favourite test booster and run these regularly or continuously over a period of time. Over time expenditure on an item will accumulate without any hard data as to whether this test booster actually boosts test and effects felt are not just placebo. Others will tend to swing back and forth between different products following the hype/mentions without knowing what actually works for them (based on test data) and sticking to these.

Long term it makes economic sense to invest a but of money on testing, to make sure you're not throwing money down the drain

 

[The_Old_Guy]

The Prolensis brand Bulbine I bought retails for $22 where I live. Since that was the exact compound you were asking about - I think my statement of "no one will spend $100 on bloods, for a $20 dollar supplement" - is accurate. Especially since you can't find any blood-work online for that exact $20 compund

Hey, I'm with you. I think 90% of supplements are bunk. $30 Billion a year get's raked in by the supp industry - they are a marketing machine. I like science too, I'm an examine.com disciple. But being my age, with my socio-economic standing - if something is cheap enough, I may run it as a "why not" supp if it's claims aren't too out there. Also, for us old timers, even if a compound doesn't raise testosterone, but it *does* raise other things - we're still happy! LOL I totally understand young guys demanding anabolic actions though - 100%.

 

[Islander73]

Completely agree about supps needing human trials done before I will try. The only supps that have ever worked for me all had good decent human trials. Any that didn't have human trials did little to nothing for me except lighten my wallet.

 

[Cjg]

Islander which were some that actually had human trials that worked for you?

 

[Islander73]

Creatine monohydrate
Phosphatidic acid (soya lecithin)
Beta alanine
arachidonic acid

These are in order from most effective to least effective in my opinion.

 

[alwaysfirst]

Relatively speaking, the magnitude is actually quite low. I'm not sure why it gets so much attention...marketing I guess. Tribulus alatus produces a 2200% increase in T in rats, for instance

What's the increase in humans with Tribulus alatus, is it worth it?

 

[Synapsin]

What's the increase in humans with Tribulus alatus, is it worth it?

As far as I am aware, not ever examined in humans.

 

[alwaysfirst]

As far as I am aware, not ever examined in humans.

Interesting that some company's sell products with it without even testing it on humans..?

 

[Synapsin]

Interesting that some company's sell products with it without even testing it on humans..?

More than 50% of products don't have studies done on humans, that is beside the point.

 

[Islander73]

More than 50% don't help increase performance. Strange correlation

 

[ucheoma]

More than 50% of products don't have studies done on humans, that is beside the point.

What exactly is the point. Isn't it about products that work in humans (as opposed to rodents)? Or are customers expected to shell out money on the basis of hyped claims solely based on animal studies? More fool us if so!

 

[Synapsin]

More than 50% don't help increase performance. Strange correlation

Generally just going by correlation is a poor method

What exactly is the point. Isn't it about products that work in humans (as opposed to rodents)? Or are customers expected to shell out money on the basis of hyped claims solely based on animal studies? More fool us if so!

Most research on ingredients is in animals; that is how research begins. Most products that work in rodents will work in humans. There are of course notable exceptions. What people don't understand is clinical research is expensive, hence the lack of studies in humans for most things, however deserving of funding an experiment may be. Most ingredients are sold because consumers want them. Nobody is forcing consumers to buy a product. If you are not interested in a product, it is your prerogative. AS sells Tribulus Alatus because it is something that was requested by consumers. We do not use it in any of our formulas, it is a stand alone item.

 

[ucheoma]

Generally just going by correlation is a poor method

Most research on ingredients is in animals; that is how research begins. Most products that work in rodents will work in humans. There are of course notable exceptions. What people don't understand is clinical research is expensive, hence the lack of studies in humans for most things, however deserving of funding an experiment may be. Most ingredients are sold because consumers want them. Nobody is forcing consumers to buy a product. If you are not interested in a product, it is your prerogative. AS sells Tribulus Alatus because it is something that was requested by consumers. We do not use it in any of our formulas, it is a stand alone item.

Complete overgeneralisation to say most products that work in rodents work in humans. Less than 20% of pharmaceutical products gain FDA approval following human clinical trials. What is your evidence for saying most products tested via animal studies also work in humans?

Someone mentioned over 2000% increase in rats test levels but you admitted there had been no human studies to verify this effect in humans. How then do you jump to this deduction when you don't know the human effects for the products you sell?

Ii's a bit cynical to say customers want a product therefore we give them what they want? Your marketing blurb says "Reported and studied effects of Tribulus Alatus are an increase in free testosterone and potent aphrodisiac properties" We know from your post above that there have been no human studies so this is potentially misleading as your blurb doesn't explain this claim is based on animal studies (I'm assuming there were more than one)

Wouldn't you have the slightest interest in knowing whether your product justifies its marketing hype. Does it actually boost test or not? If yes, by what levels 5, 10, 2000%? I would want to know if I were marketing it. But maybe I'm being naïve. We're not talking massive clinical double-blind studies. You could run before and afters on five to ten people and that would give a good indication as far as I'm concerned

 

[alwaysfirst]

Complete overgeneralisation to say most products that work in rodents work in humans. Less than 20% of pharmaceutical products gain FDA approval following human clinical trials. What is your evidence for saying most products tested via animal studies also work in humans?

Someone mentioned over 2000% increase in rats test levels but you admitted there had been no human studies to verify this effect in humans. How then do you jump to this deduction when you don't know the human effects for the products you sell?

Ii's a bit cynical to say customers want a product therefore we give them what they want? Your marketing blurb says "Reported and studied effects of Tribulus Alatus are an increase in free testosterone and potent aphrodisiac properties" We know from your post above that there have been no human studies so this is potentially misleading as your blurb doesn't explain this claim is based on animal studies (I'm assuming there were more than one)

Wouldn't you have the slightest interest in knowing whether your product justifies its marketing hype. Does it actually boost test or not? If yes, by what levels 5, 10, 2000%? I would want to know if I were marketing it. But maybe I'm being naïve. We're not talking massive clinical double-blind studies. You could run before and afters on five to ten people and that would give a good indication as far as I'm concerned

One of the best posts I ever read on AM!

 

[Islander73]

Agreed

 

[Synapsin]

Complete overgeneralisation to say most products that work in rodents work in humans. Less than 20% of pharmaceutical products gain FDA approval following human clinical trials. What is your evidence for saying most products tested via animal studies also work in humans?

Complete generalization? Your factoid regarding the FDA makes absolutely 0 sense. What does the number of drugs gaining FDA approval after human clinical trials have to do with anything? Drugs don't receive FDA approval for a variety of reasons other than efficacy (big factor is side effects). That is a classic red herring; correlation is a very poor method to plead your case. Most products that work in animals work in humans because of basic biology. Did I say they work to the same degree? No, I did not. Did I say there were exceptions to this? Yes I did. You can try to nitpick my post all you want, but my points still stand, regardless of your (flawed) post. I have zero vested interest in bulbine.

Wouldn't you have the slightest interest in knowing whether your product justifies its marketing hype. Does it actually boost test or not? If yes, by what levels 5, 10, 2000%? I would want to know if I were marketing it. But maybe I'm being naïve. We're not talking massive clinical double-blind studies. You could run before and afters on five to ten people and that would give a good indication as far as I'm concerned

Again, that is not how research works at all. We actually do test our products at PES in house, but we do not make claims based on internal research, just independent research. I have zero control of what AS sells but like I said, it is sold due to demand. FYI, it would be pointless to run a study ourselves due to obvious bias, not to mention it would be very expensive to pay for a study done by others. A sample size of 5-10 people has huge issues due to power, and you would not even be able to run a bonferroni correction. I do research for a living, but it is obvious you do not. I have already said what I wanted to say about this topic.

 

[alwaysfirst]

FYI, it would be pointless to run a study ourselves due to obvious bias, not to mention it would be very expensive to pay for a study.

It's very expensive to buy your untested products also...

 

[ucheoma]

For someone that purports to do research for a living you've made some absurd claims not least that most products which work in animals work in humans. I ask you for evidence but you sidestepped this and instead attempt to argue some sort of biological determinism as to why products should work in both. This is a mere hypothesis not evidence and im sure as a 'researcher' you know the difference?

My point about FDA approvals is this forms prima facie evidence that products which work in animals dont work in humans most times. Most of these will have undergone animal testing.

How you can attempt to explain this away as being due to 'other considerations' mystifies me.You're telling me safety does not form part of animal testing considerations? Exactly what do you define as "working" and produce some solid evidence to back this up before throwing out such bogus assertions.

If you've done internal research on your own prouducts there are no rules ot regulations preventing you from publishing. We're not idiots. As long as you make it clear this is internally carried out and the methodology then caveat emptor.

Lastly, a piece of advice. Don't fight other people's battles. Your post was construed as being one from an AS rep defending their T Alatus product. their reps or anyone else that actually uses trib alatus may be better placed to answer related questions.

After all is said and done we're none the wiser as to whether bulbine or trib alatus actually work in humans which is the main bone of contention.

 

[mattikus]

Edit: nvrmnd, not gonna get caught up in this pointless debate

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

It's very expensive to buy your untested products also...

like it was said.. no one is forcing you to buy them.
you get what you pay for. if you like buying pixie dusted supps that don't work well feel free to continue.

serious delusion in this thread.
cliffs:
guy asks question
guy tries to answer question..
another guy corrects answer to og question...
new questions arise..
sh]T storm insues.


why is it that I was able to understand and follow everything synapsin said yet I only have a couple yrs at a community college? cmon people really?

 

[mattikus]

Guess I'm not staying out of this.

Ripper-My thoughts exactly.

Has this forum become bbdotcom? That " best post ever on AM" is very mislead. And gotta love the mob mentality. Advanced this is not.

Synapsin was one of the few that actually knew what he was talking about in this thread.

You want published human trials on all your supplements? Yeah that would be great. And I want a frikkin unicorn. Gimme a break.

Looks like a lot of throwing around big words and trying to sound smart in this thread. Lol

But I could just be making an overgeneralisation

 

[alwaysfirst]

like it was said.. no one is forcing you to buy them.
you get what you pay for. if you like buying pixie dusted supps that don't work well feel free continue

Or just spend you hard earned money on supplements that actually have real studies on them?

You must think that's a better idea even with your "community collage" schooling?

 

[alwaysfirst]

Guess I'm not staying out of this.

Ripper-My thoughts exactly.

Has this forum become bbdotcom? That " best post ever on AM" is very mislead. And gotta love the mob mentality. Advanced this is not.

Synapsin was one of the few that actually knew what he was talking about in this thread.

You want published human trials on all your supplements? Yeah that would be great. And I want a frikkin unicorn. Gimme a break.

Looks like a lot of throwing around big words and trying to sound smart in this thread. Lol

But I could just be making an overgeneralisation

This forum have become a place for a bunch of reps promoting their products (untested in some cases) instead of honest opinions.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

If you want to increase your promoting, checkout SuperSuppXYZ. There are tons of logs showing it increases promoting by 76% in Platypus'

 

[ucheoma]

That customers should deign to demand hard data or proof a supp actually works before parting with their hard earned cash.How misguided and silly! You ought to be able to sift the wheat from the chaff just from the colour of the packaging or being able to detect the pixie dust with a magnifying glass. Better still go somewhere else if you dont believe us and stop asking for proof youre never going to get Get real!!

 

[Canes325]

That customers should deign to demand hard data or proof a supp actually works before parting with their hard earned cash.How misguided and silly! You ought to be able to sift the wheat from the chaff just from the colour of the packaging or being able to detect the pixie dust with a magnifying glass. Better still go somewhere else if you dont believe us and stop asking for proof youre never going to get Get real!!

Funding all these trials and doing all the research isn't cheap. What do you think that will do to the cost of the product? Increase it 20%,30%, 50%? Maybe more who knows. That's why it pays being an educated consumer, you can make educate chances on purchasing a product you may or may not like.

 

[ucheoma]

What precisely do you mean by 'educated customer'? In my book an educated customer evaluates a product based on facts, research and data not bro science and anecdote. It's a bit hypocritical to excuse the lack of data on cost when companies are happy to make unverified marketing claims and reap profits from products which in reality don't come any where near the claims made

Funding all these trials and doing all the research isn't cheap. What do you think that will do to the cost of the product? Increase it 20%,30%, 50%? Maybe more who knows. That's why it pays being an educated consumer, you can make educate chances on purchasing a product you may or may not like.

 

[Canes325]

What precisely do you mean by 'educated customer'? In my book an educated customer evaluates a product based on facts, research and data not bro science and anecdote. It's a bit hypocritical to excuse the lack of data on cost when companies are happy to make unverified marketing claims and reap profits from products which in reality don't come any where near the claims made

An educated consumer in my opinion is exactly what you stated. Also purchasing a product based on effective ingredients at effective dosages. Unfortunately as you stated a lot of ingredients don't have the research and human studies backing effectiveness. So we only have studies on animals to go off of. I think anecdotal evidence unfortunately is one of the better indicators on product effectiveness. As we both know companies would rather spend money on marketing than studies. If one were to only purchase products that had scientific research/human studies the pool of potential products would be small. It's unfortunate but it's what we got. Also yes, I think it's a damn shame when companies prey on the uninformed and in educated base on outlandish claims of product effectiveness

My apologies if this came of as jumbled and incoherent as I'm typing from my phone lol.

ETA- my viewpoint on this is more pertaining to sports nutrition/weightloss supplements. I think the general health and wellness aspect of supplementation is more credible.