re-considering tribulus supplementation

JudoJosh

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[h=1]Free serum testosterone level in male rats treated with Tribulus alatus extracts.[/h]
[h=3]Abstract[/h]

[h=4]OBJECTIVE:[/h]The present study was undertaken to investigate the effect of Tribulus alatus extracts on free serum testosterone in male rats.


[h=4]MATERIALS AND METHODS:[/h]Free serum testosterone level was measured in male rats treated with alcoholic extracts of the aerial part without fruits, fruits of Tribulus alatus and their fractions.


[h=4]RESULTS:[/h]All tested extracts showed significant increase in the level of free serum testosterone when compared to that of corresponding control, p < 0.05. Statistical comparison of all groups revealed that the maximum level was found in groups treated with chloroformic and ethanolic fractions of fruits extract.


[h=4]CONCLUSION:[/h]Tribulus alatus extract appears to possess aphrodisiac activity due to its androgen increasing property.
via the full text

mean free serum testosterone level among rats that were treated with 70 % alcoholic extracts of Tribulus alatus
El_Tantawy_ing_554_559_table_1.gif


mean free serum testosterone level among rats treated with different fractions of 70% alcoholic extracts of the part without fruits of T. alatus.
El_Tantawy_ing_554_559_table_2.gif


mean free serum testosterone level among of rats treated with different fractions of 70% alcoholic extracts of the fruits of T. alatus.
El_Tantawy_ing_554_559_table_3.gif


As you can see from the data above, perhaps there is something to tribulus after all. I know we have all tried a trib product in the past or have read on the boards people saying trib is worthless but perhaps we have just been using the wrong trib all this time. NOTE: The above is not the same tribulus you are used to seeing on the shelves, tribulus terrestris, but instead is tribulus alatus which may actually have some merit to its use.

So we have an in vivo experiment using rats showing an increase in free testosterone from 0.72 to max (21.3). In my opinion, t. alatus may be something worth looking into trying out.
 
frankz2

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For what its worth, this is why P6 is sold so heavily in GNC's. Any other products with more verified extracts of this ingredient?
 
money0351

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Im pretty sure cellucor's $100 test booster P6 (red) uses tribulus alatus as well as bovine placenta :p
 
money0351

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For what its worth, this is why P6 is sold so heavily in GNC's. Any other products with more verified extracts of this ingredient?
Ahhhh you beat me to it while I was typing haha. But it i also touted as being an HCG agonist as well as an estrogen blocker...
 
DAdams91982

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Ah, I see some info was leaked here. Analyzed is about to blow you up, both literally and figuratively with the highest quality, dosage researched Alatus you have ever seen, at the best Damn price you will see. Bar none get signed up on the Army at analyzedsupplements.com

Do it now... Then get to da choppa.
 
Driven2lift

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Ah, I see some info was leaked here. Analyzed is about to blow you up, both literally and figuratively with the highest quality, dosage researched Alatus you have ever seen, at the best Damn price you will see. Bar none get signed up on the Army at analyzedsupplements.com Do it now... Then get to da choppa.
No one said it was to be one of the Analyzed releases

We were thinking it

Now we know it ;)
 
DAdams91982

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I just wanted people to know the best is yet to come.

And I am reading on my phone... So skimming is a must.
 
LiveToLift

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Ah, I see some info was leaked here. Analyzed is about to blow you up, both literally and figuratively with the highest quality, dosage researched Alatus you have ever seen, at the best Damn price you will see. Bar none get signed up on the Army at analyzedsupplements.com Do it now... Then get to da choppa.
I just wanted people to know the best is yet to come. And I am reading on my phone... So skimming is a must.
Noted! By now everyone should be signed up! If not get to it!
 
JudoJosh

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So it looks like T. alatus contains steroidal saponins (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16631216) which may increase LH (according to some old references I found, specifically - Clinical trial of Tribestan. Experiment Med. 1982; 2-4) so this may be how alatus works to increase test BUT T. terrestris also contains saponins so there may be something else here with alatus that resulted in these results above.
 
JudoJosh

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No one said it was to be one of the Analyzed releases

We were thinking it

Now we know it ;)

I wasn't sure if I was allowed to say or not but I was told about a FEW upcoming analyzed releases so started searching to familiarize myself with the compounds and was pretty surprised with this one. Quite frankly when I was told Analyzed was releasing a tribulus product my initial reaction was, "WHY?!?!", but after they clarified it was not terrestris but something else I decided to give pubmed a search and see and I was pleasantly surprised. I am anxious to give this one a try myself. Can't wait!
 
Synapsin

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Nice thread. Thermolife was the first company to use trib alatus in a supplement I believe.
 
JudoJosh

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Nice thread. Thermolife was the first company to use trib alatus in a supplement I believe.
yup I believe so. In T-BOL. I think Purus used it in a product before as well and then there is Cellucor C6 that uses it too.

However, I do think Analyzed will be the first to release it as a standalone product that is not a part of a formulation and should be available at a very competitive price. ;)
 
Synapsin

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yup I believe so. In T-BOL. I think Purus used it in a product before as well and then there is Cellucor C6 that uses it too.

However, I do think Analyzed will be the first to release it as a standalone product that is not a part of a formulation and should be available at a very competitive price. ;)
Indeed, which I look forward to :)
 
ELROCK

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yup I believe so. In T-BOL. I think Purus used it in a product before as well and then there is Cellucor C6 that uses it too.

However, I do think Analyzed will be the first to release it as a standalone product that is not a part of a formulation and should be available at a very competitive price. ;)
I have used it in Premium Powders Test Infusion which has a prob blend of bulbine, tongkat ali, DAA calcium chelated, etc.
 

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So it looks like T. alatus contains steroidal saponins (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16631216) which may increase LH (according to some old references I found, specifically - Clinical trial of Tribestan. Experiment Med. 1982; 2-4) so this may be how alatus works to increase test BUT T. terrestris also contains saponins so there may be something else here with alatus that resulted in these results above.
I think the bigger variable with trib is probably not the type of trib being used but what they have been extracting/standardizing for. Like the alatus has more of certain saponins that are the ones with the desired effect(s), but that doesn't necessarily mean that terrestris doesn't have the saponins we want.

That's the problem with these plant extracts, majority of times we have no idea which company is using which raws which are standardized for XYZ.
 
Royd The Noyd

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Not sure why this is in the advanced discussion forum in 2014. Study is old. In a terrible journal. There is nothing exciting or new on tribulus t/a.

"A survey concerning the secondary metabolites of genus Tribulus showed that steroidal saponins are the typical constituents of the genus, and in particular of T. terrestris (14). Saponins have been implicated as possible bioactive agent responsible for the aphrodisiac effect in Tribulus terrestris extract (11). These saponins were found to increase the levels of testosterone and luteinizing hormone (15).
It was reported that Tribulus alatus contained steroidal saponins (8), which might contribute to increasing endogenous testosterone levels by raising the level of luteinizing hormones (LH) as reported for saponins isolated from T. terrestris (15).
In the present study, the significant increase in the level of free serum testosterone is an indication of the aphrodisiac potential of Tribulus alatus extract."

_____

J Hum Kinet, 2014 vol. 41 pp. 99-105
Insights into Supplements with Tribulus Terrestris used by Athletes
Pokrywka, A; Obmiski, Z; Malczewska-Lenczowska, J; Fijaek, Z; Turek-Lepa, E; Grucza, R
Herbal and nutritional supplements are more and more popular in the western population. One of them is an extract of an exotic plant, named Tribulus terrestris (TT). TT is a component of several supplements that are available over-the-counter and widely recommended, generally as enhancers of human vitality. TT is touted as a testosterone booster and remedy for impaired erectile function; therefore, it is targeted at physically active men, including male athletes. Based on the scientific literature describing the results of clinical trials, this review attempted to verify information on marketing TT with particular reference to the needs of athletes. It was found that there are few reliable data on the usefulness of TT in competitive sport. In humans, a TT extract used alone without additional components does not improve androgenic status or physical performance among athletes. The results of a few studies have showed that the combination of TT with other pharmacological components increases testosterone levels, but it was not discovered which components of the mixture contributed to that effect. TT contains several organic compounds including alkaloids and steroidal glycosides, of which pharmacological action in humans is not completely explained. One anti-doping study reported an incident with a TT supplement contaminated by a banned steroid. Toxicological studies regarding TT have been carried out on animals only, however, one accidental poisoning of a man was described. The Australian Institute of Sport does not recommend athletes' usage of TT. So far, the published data concerning TT do not provide strong evidence for either usefulness or safe usage in sport.

"So far, trustworthy studies on expected TT properties are still insufficient. Neychev and Mitev (2005) found that neither a daily lower (10 mg/kg) nor a higher dose of TT (20 mg/kg) taken orally had an effect on blood testosterone, androstenedione or luteinizing hormone following a 4 week period of supplementation. Van Eeenoo et al. (2000) reported no changes in blood testosterone and LH following a 5 day period of supplementation of TT (750 mg/day), and an unchanged urinary testosterone level to the epitestosterone ratio. Likewise, other studies conducted among athletes did not confirm the beneficial effect of supplementation of TT on physical performance. Resistance-trained men who received a daily dose of TT amounting to 3.2 mg/kg during an 8-week training period did not improve their results of bench and leg press, mood states, body mass and composition did not change (Antonio et al., 2000). A higher TT daily dosage (450 mg/day) taken by rugby players over a 5 week training period also did not cause changes in strength, body composition and the urinary testosterone/epitestosterone ratio (Rogerson et al., 7). In contrast to these data, there are two studies confirming beneficial effects after treatment with pharmaceutical products containing TT and other components. After 20 day supplementation with the dietary supplement “Tribulus” anaerobic and alactic muscular power and blood testosterone significantly increased among youth men (Milasius et al., 2009). The other placebo-controlled double- blind experiment conducted among older men with formerly impaired erectile function and lowered blood total (8.0 nmol/L) and free (0.19 nmol/L) testosterone levels showed very high effectiveness of a preparation containing TT. This product, named “Tradamixina”, being a composition of TT, Alga Eckonia, D-glucosamine and N-acetyl- glucosamine, administered every day, throughout a 2 month period, improved libido and elevated the testosterone fractions to the average levels of 23.3 and 0.42 nmol/l, respectively (Iacono et al., 2012). It should be stressed, however, that in both experiments, there was no certainty which component(s) of those products caused the biological advantages, and whether TT contributed to those effects."
 

kisaj

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yup I believe so. In T-BOL. I think Purus used it in a product before as well and then there is Cellucor C6 that uses it too.

However, I do think Analyzed will be the first to release it as a standalone product that is not a part of a formulation and should be available at a very competitive price. ;)
That would be the key because there are a lot of products available that contain Alatus as part of a blend. How much is actually in them- who knows? How much is needed to work in humans-who knows?
 
JudoJosh

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Not sure why this is in the advanced discussion forum in 2014. Study is old. In a terrible journal. There is nothing exciting or new on tribulus t/a.
A thread discussing possible mechanisms behind a specific compound along with citations... seemed more appropriate here in advanced discussion as opposed to the main supplement forum amidst the "Take x bro I took it once and got swole!!!" threads
 

kisaj

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Old or not, sure seems like a relevant topic for this forum.
 

z28spd

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no test BOOSTING ingredient is going to get anyone swole lol. Waste of $ if that's what you are looking for from it.
 

kisaj

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Most people understand that by now, but there is a big difference in total and free test in terms of energy, libido, sleep, mood, and muscle building. There are many benefits to increasing free test other than getting "swole".
 
ELROCK

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Most people understand that by now, but there is a big difference in total and free test in terms of energy, libido, sleep, mood, and muscle building. There are many benefits to increasing free test other than getting "swole".
^exactly and its potential ability to increase free T and LH is really what sparks interest.
 
JeremyNG25

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Ah, I see some info was leaked here. Analyzed is about to blow you up, both literally and figuratively with the highest quality, dosage researched Alatus you have ever seen, at the best Damn price you will see. Bar none get signed up on the Army at analyzedsupplements.com

Do it now... Then get to da choppa.
When are you coming out with this!? Dates please?
 
DAdams91982

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no test BOOSTING ingredient is going to get anyone swole lol. Waste of $ if that's what you are looking for from it.
Test boosters aren't going to give steroid gains, no. But they certainly assist with protein turn over, slight edge in strength, and more gym focused energy.

A group such as those on AM are for the most part dialed in a put in the effort and supplements such as this or others around here only complement the hard work to gain an edge.
 
thebigt

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Test boosters aren't going to give steroid gains, no. But they certainly assist with protein turn over, slight edge in strength, and more gym focused energy.

A group such as those on AM are for the most part dialed in a put in the effort and supplements such as this or others around here only complement the hard work to gain an edge.
plus mood motivation and libido. people often forget how important the mental role is.
 
Royd The Noyd

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Test boosters aren't going to give steroid gains, no. But they certainly assist with protein turn over, slight edge in strength, and more gym focused energy.
Stu Phillips would disagree.

J. Appl. Physiol., 2012 vol. 112(11) pp. 1805-13
Sex-based comparisons of myofibrillar protein synthesis after resistance exercise in the fed state
West, DW; Burd, NA; Churchward-Venne, TA; Camera, DM; Mitchell, CJ; Baker, SK; Hawley, JA; Coffey, VG; Phillips, SM
We made sex-based comparisons of rates of myofibrillar protein synthesis (MPS) and anabolic signaling after a single bout of high-intensity resistance exercise. Eight men (20 ± 10 yr, BMI = 24.3 ± 2.4) and eight women (22 ± 1.8 yr, BMI = 23.0 ± 1.9) underwent primed constant infusions of l-[ring-(13)C(6)]phenylalanine on consecutive days with serial muscle biopsies. Biopsies were taken from the vastus lateralis at rest and 1, 3, 5, 24, 26, and 28 h after exercise. Twenty-five grams of whey protein was ingested immediately and 26 h after exercise. We also measured exercise-induced serum testosterone because it is purported to contribute to increases in myofibrillar protein synthesis (MPS) postexercise and its absence has been hypothesized to attenuate adaptative responses to resistance exercise in women. The exercise-induced area under the testosterone curve was 45-fold greater in men than women in the early (1 h) recovery period following exercise (P < 0.001). MPS was elevated similarly in men and women (2.3- and 2.7-fold, respectively) 1-5 h postexercise and after protein ingestion following 24 h recovery. Phosphorylation of mTOR(Ser2448) was elevated to a greater extent in men than women acutely after exercise (P = 0.003), whereas increased phosphorylation of p70S6K1(Thr389) was not different between sexes. Androgen receptor content was greater in men (main effect for sex, P = 0.049). Atrogin-1 mRNA abundance was decreased after 5 h recovery in both men and women (P < 0.001), and MuRF-1 expression was elevated in men after protein ingestion following 24 h recovery (P = 0.003). These results demonstrate minor sex-based differences in signaling responses and no difference in the MPS response to resistance exercise in the fed state. Interestingly, our data demonstrate that exercise-induced increases in MPS are dissociated from postexercise testosteronemia and that stimulation of MPS occurs effectively with low systemic testosterone concentrations in women.

_____

And....

J. Physiol. (Lond.), 2009 vol. 587(Pt 21) pp. 5239-47

Resistance exercise-induced increases in putative anabolic hormones do not enhance muscle protein synthesis or intracellular signalling in young men
West, DW; Kujbida, GW; Moore, DR; Atherton, P; Burd, NA; Padzik, JP; De Lisio, M; Tang, JE; Parise, G; Rennie, MJ; Baker, SK; Phillips, SM
We aimed to determine whether exercise-induced elevations in systemic concentration of testosterone, growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) enhanced post-exercise myofibrillar protein synthesis (MPS) and phosphorylation of signalling proteins important in regulating mRNA translation. Eight young men (20 +/- 1.1 years, BMI = 26 +/- 3.5 kg m(-2)) completed two exercise protocols designed to maintain basal hormone concentrations (low hormone, LH) or elicit increases in endogenous hormones (high hormone, HH). In the LH protocol, participants performed a bout of unilateral resistance exercise with the elbow flexors. The HH protocol consisted of the same elbow flexor exercise with the contralateral arm followed immediately by high-volume leg resistance exercise. Participants consumed 25 g of protein after arm exercise to maximize MPS. Muscle biopsies and blood samples were taken as appropriate. There were no changes in serum testosterone, GH or IGF-1 after the LH protocol, whereas there were marked elevations after HH (testosterone, P < 0.001; GH, P < 0.001; IGF-1, P < 0.05). Exercise stimulated a rise in MPS in the biceps brachii (rest = 0.040 +/- 0.007, LH = 0.071 +/- 0.008, HH = 0.064 +/- 0.014% h(-1); P < 0.05) with no effect of elevated hormones (P = 0.72). Phosphorylation of the 70 kDa S6 protein kinase (p70S6K) also increased post-exercise (P < 0.05) with no differences between conditions. We conclude that the transient increases in endogenous purportedly anabolic hormones do not enhance fed-state anabolic signalling or MPS following resistance exercise. Local mechanisms are likely to be of predominant importance for the post-exercise increase in MPS.
 
DAdams91982

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plus mood motivation and libido. people often forget how important the mental role is.
I most definitely agree. My mental status is the biggest factor in my workouts. When I am down, my lifts suffer in a drastic way, and my workout is always shorter. The other way around and I can lift the world and never feel like leaving.
 

kisaj

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Which is why I would always recommend a tongkat product.
 

De__eB

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Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Rats are not humans.

Oh, did I mention...Rats are not humans?
 
thebigt

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I most definitely agree. My mental status is the biggest factor in my workouts. When I am down, my lifts suffer in a drastic way, and my workout is always shorter. The other way around and I can lift the world and never feel like leaving.
going along with this, it wasn't until i got older that i understood the meaning of the saying "the brain is the largest sex organ". improving mental mood and focus is hard to prove or disprove with scientific studies, but test boosters definately give me an edge!!!
 
rochabp

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Anyone have human studies of TT? I stopped being a rat when the supplement companies were taking all my money, but i am interested in this product to cycle with DAA+Sarcosine
 
thebigt

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Anyone have human studies of TT? I stopped being a rat when the supplement companies were taking all my money, but i am interested in this product to cycle with DAA+Sarcosine
daa + sarcosine sounds very interesting....are you going to reduce doses of daa?
 
rochabp

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daa + sarcosine sounds very interesting....are you going to reduce doses of daa?
hell no... 130g DAA+100g sarcosine mix that sh*t up and take 6 grams=loads for days

Sometimes when i lift and in the middle of a set i get flashbacks of the chinese beauty i boned about a weeks ago (great tits)...It doesnt make me pop a boner it just gives me motivation and drive, i find this phenomenon very interesting maybe im just a horn dog or maybe this stuff rocks...

BTW when i hit that i was going strong for 3 hours in bed
 
rochabp

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actually sorry for hijack im probably not going to buy TT ill just buy some more of my current stack why fix it if aint broken right?
 
frankz2

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Don't have exact sources as I'm on mobile but I'm pretty sure most research these days is showing TT supplementation ineffective. Maybe somebody can provide specifics. I think this thread was more about TA which had shown more recent promise.
 
Royd The Noyd

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Anyone have human studies of TT? I stopped being a rat when the supplement companies were taking all my money, but i am interested in this product to cycle with DAA+Sarcosine
Don't have exact sources as I'm on mobile but I'm pretty sure most research these days is showing TT supplementation ineffective. Maybe somebody can provide specifics. I think this thread was more about TA which had shown more recent promise.
Read thread

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4626861
 
frankz2

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Read it a few days ago and your post slipped my mind during the response so thanks. I've also come to appreciate your research first posting style. However, I'm curious if, personally, you think theres a chance at a difference between the two (alatus/terrestris) or they are just lumped together as it appears they are extracted for similar saponins.
 
Royd The Noyd

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Read it a few days ago and your post slipped my mind during the response so thanks. I've also come to appreciate your research first posting style. However, I'm curious if, personally, you think theres a chance at a difference between the two (alatus/terrestris) or they are just lumped together as it appears they are extracted for similar saponins.
They are similar enough to make me believe there isn't a huge difference between the two. However there is very little research (especially in decent journals) on alatus so it's more of an unknown. Still there are like 300 better things to spend your money on.
 
frankz2

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They are similar enough to make me believe there isn't a huge difference between the two. However there is very little research (especially in decent journals) on alatus so it's more of an unknown. Still there are like 300 better things to spend your money on.
Definitely agree and hadn't planned on it. Far more intriguing prospects for dropping some pounds (from the wallet). Appreciate the thoughts.
 
Jiigzz

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Most people understand that by now, but there is a big difference in total and free test in terms of energy, libido, sleep, mood, and muscle building. There are many benefits to increasing free test other than getting "swole".
This.

Boost free T and your life will change
 

USPlabsRep

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no test BOOSTING ingredient is going to get anyone swole lol. Waste of $ if that's what you are looking for from it.
with everything on the market i agree…that will soon change.

Problem is not increasing test. Problem is inhibiting negative feedback loop...
 

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