Phosphatidic Acid - New Study 5+lbs in LBM
- 06-25-2014, 09:13 AM
Phosphatidic Acid - New Study 5+lbs in LBM
Soy PA = profit (in vitro)
Phosphatidic acid enhances mTOR signaling and resistance exercise induced hypertrophy.
Nutr Metab (Lond). 2014;11:29
Authors: Joy JM, Gundermann DM, Lowery RP, Jäger R, McCleary SA, Purpura M, Roberts MD, Wilson SM, Hornberger TA, Wilson JM
INTRODUCTION: The lipid messenger phosphatidic acid (PA) plays a critical role in the stimulation of mTOR signaling. However, the mechanism by which PA stimulates mTOR is currently unknown. Therefore, the purpose of this study was to compare the effects of various PA precursors and phospholipids on their ability to stimulate mTOR signaling and its ability to augment resistance training-induced changes in body composition and performance.
METHODS: In phase one, C2C12 myoblasts cells were stimulated with different phospholipids and phospholipid precursors derived from soy and egg sources. The ratio of phosphorylated p70 (P-p70-389) to total p70 was then used as readout for mTOR signaling. In phase two, resistance trained subjects (n = 28, 21 ± 3 years, 77 ± 4 kg, 176 ± 9 cm) consumed either 750 mg PA daily or placebo and each took part in an 8 week periodized resistance training program.
RESULTS: In phase one, soy-phosphatidylserine, soy-Lyso-PA, egg-PA, and soy-PA stimulated mTOR signaling, and the effects of soy-PA (+636%) were significantly greater than egg-PA (+221%). In phase two, PA significantly increased lean body mass (+2.4 kg), cross sectional area (+1.0 cm), and leg press strength (+51.9 kg) over placebo.
CONCLUSION: PA significantly activates mTOR and significantly improved responses in skeletal muscle hypertrophy, lean body mass, and maximal strength to resistance exercise.
- 06-25-2014, 12:42 PM
Dude, you're so late to the game, I posted this like weeks ago :P
- 06-25-2014, 12:55 PM
06-25-2014, 01:06 PM
06-25-2014, 02:28 PM
06-25-2014, 02:33 PM
So when the provisional copy of the study was released a few weeks ago, Dr. Stout posted a link to it on the other site.
06-25-2014, 02:51 PM
06-25-2014, 02:56 PM
I think this says a lot about the credibility of Wilson and his lab, seeing how the patent for PA that Chemi Nutra filed had a heavy inclusion in the patent for PA's use on sedentary and muscle wasting populations, unfortunately for Chemi Nutra, for PA to be effective it needs to be present whilst one actually exercises thus this would effectively strike out relevant use for sedentary and bed ridden populations.
Let's also not forget that the studies that have recently been popularized coming out of Wilson's lab has essentially been his lab replicating the work of earlier studies (Kraemer's study for HMB-Ca, Hoffman's study for PA, and the Baylor study for ArA). The big change though is that Wilson is working with far more controls for variables and usually with more taxing training protocols (at least the HMB study uses a very taxing training protocol).
If anything, Wilson's lab has been validating earlier work on HMB, PA, and ArA. What you're asking for is for someone to do another study to validate a study which validated another study. LoL. Which is fine and dandy but we can just do this validation thing forever basically. :P
06-25-2014, 02:59 PM
06-25-2014, 03:02 PM
06-25-2014, 03:03 PM
06-25-2014, 03:04 PM
06-25-2014, 03:11 PM
Also, let's be honest here, you brought up wanting to see other labs replicate Wilson's lab results under the context that these are somehow the first time positive results were shown with these ingredients, but the fact is that Wilson's lab has mostly been replicating results of earlier research coming out of other labs.
So regardless if you were implying the aforementioned first point or the second point or even both, it's pretty nonsensical if you think about it.
06-25-2014, 03:14 PM
06-25-2014, 03:15 PM
06-25-2014, 03:25 PM
1) Implying that Wilson's study needs to be replicated in order to validate it as if this was some new finding even though what his lab has done for PA, HMB, and ArA have been replicating earlier studies from other labs?
2) Implying that Wilson's lab is somehow fibbing data just to show positive results, this which would make absolutely no sense because then why would they not fib data for the PA study done on sedentary people? You have clearly stated that you've done a whole show on the patent, so you should be intimately familiar with the fact that the patent places more emphasis on PA being of benefit to muscle wasting situations (basically as a treatment or part of treatment for individuals with serious health issues causing them to be prone to muscle wasting). Let's not forget that the company is Chemi-Nutra here, they are not exactly as invested in sports nutrition as they are in the longevity market.
3) Both 1 and 2.
Right now it's like you're going with option 3 there but then you're also not committing to it. Oh well.
If anything, the studies coming out of Wilson's lab has laid everything out for any other lab to be able to try to replicate, and the guy has been very responsive if one was to e-mail him and what not. It would be mighty stupid to start making stuff up AND making it so easy for another lab to try to replicate your work.
06-25-2014, 03:34 PM
Back on track though, I think the PS also hydrolyzes to LPA which extracellular PA is theorized to possibly be doing as well, this should act on ERK which should then eventually signal mTOR.
I'm not a chemist or biochemist or anything of the sort, but is it possible to supplement with LPA if LPA is what is ultimately the trigger for the cascade here? Or is it a case where LPA will never make it into circulation through oral administration or that we don't have a source for LPA.
06-26-2014, 11:43 PM
06-26-2014, 11:54 PM
It reminded me of an article I wrote last year though. And even a year ago I mention the quality of the labs producing the research. But I guess I'm a hater...
06-27-2014, 03:55 AM
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