DAA found useless in bodybuilders

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    DAA found useless in bodybuilders


    http://www.ergo-log.com/d-aspartic-a...ybuilders.html

    Very doubtful to increase enough test to get any anabolic/androgenic effects anyways

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ergo Log
    This is the question the researchers tried to answer by doing a 28-day long experiment with 20 recreational bodybuilders whose average age was 22.
    I wouldn't say useless. Personally I don't know why 20 somethings would ever need a boost in testosterone, maybe during PCT. I think people in that age group have plenty of natural testosterone and don't need AAS anyway. Study doesn't prove anything not already blatantly obvious. If you already have plenty of natural testosterone surging through your body, OTC test boosters won't do much of anything.
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    Major difference in LH, which typically is a good thing for T production.


    More LH = More T.

    Wish they would've tested E levels too, wondering if a significant amount of T would be aromatized to E with the increase in LH (to maintain balance)

    Because, if that's the case, DAA + AI = win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Major difference in LH, which typically is a good thing for T production.


    More LH = More T.

    Wish they would've tested E levels too, wondering if a significant amount of T would be aromatized to E with the increase in LH (to maintain balance)

    Because, if that's the case, DAA + AI = win.
    Still won't increase it enough to have any real physical appearance changes IMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by horizons View Post

    Still won't increase it enough to have any real physical appearance changes IMO
    I don't think anyone ever said it would.


    No natural hormone modulators will affect physique in any way IMO (except for water loss from AIs). The most would be mood/attitude changes, or libido boosts.

    But, most people typically use these products in PCT and that kind of effect on LH is exactly what one would want during a PCT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by horizons View Post
    Still won't increase it enough to have any real physical appearance changes IMO

    How do you know that? What is enough?
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    Might depend on the age group and ambient test levels prior to supplementation.Once you get into your 40's a T boost is a T boost, lol.
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    i've said for awhile that daa never gave gym results...no strength, body comp or aggression in the gym

    however if you can guarantee an increase in test during post cycle therapy with using daa, the price is cheap enough...so why not throw it in a post cycle therapy, i've also found that daa mixed with your favorite test booster is the way to really get results

    it's been awhile since i listened but i believe on muscle college radio that Ben Escro also said the DAA hype has gone too far
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    Like I said before, you young guys aren't gonna notice much from OTC test boosters. Just because it "doesn't work" for a certain age group doesn't mean it "doesn't work" at all. That's just ridiculous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by USPlabsRep View Post
    How do you know that? What is enough?
    That's true

    I'm very sceptical

    Oh I put on 4 kilos while on DAA but my diet was in check. It's probably 99% diet and 1% DAA

    I would like to see some better studies than what I posted though. I think anything like DAA in pct is helpful. Doesn't mean sh** though
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    When I take DAA I feel good in the gym.
    That might mean I lift harder.
    All I care about are the gains. More gains=more muscle.
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    Don't know why, but I feel like there will be a slow shift towards the opinion many of us have been flamed on over the years by calling out DAA. It was like calling someone's kid ugly. lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Don't know why, but I feel like there will be a slow shift towards the opinion many of us have been flamed on over the years by calling out DAA. It was like calling someone's kid ugly. lol
    Some people just have ugly kids.

    As to DAA, I understand that it is now recognized as having the greatest benefits to the older contingent, following natural T decline.

    For that reason, I will be using it in December - just to see fro myself.
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    Might be most useful in cases of reduced HPTA output. Perhaps in PCT with a combination of other things. Solo in a non HPTA affected state wouldn't be my first choice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Some people just have ugly kids.

    As to DAA, I understand that it is now recognized as having the greatest benefits to the older contingent, following natural T decline.

    For that reason, I will be using it in December - just to see fro myself.
    It is generally in the over 35, forums for those seeking TRT, and the >30 folks that are seeing that it really doesn't work all that well. In fact, many of us have found that it lowers test and increases e2. I think everyone needs to determine what works best for them when it comes to non script supplements, but in my opinion, DAA is worthless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Major difference in LH, which typically is a good thing for T production.


    More LH = More T.

    n.

    that increase in LH should have resulted in a much more profound increase in testosterone
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post

    that increase in LH should have resulted in a much more profound increase in testosterone
    How much more would you guess?


    I figured it should, not sure why it wouldn't have in the study.


    Don't have full text, but didn't this also use regular DAA as opposed to Na-DAA as well? How much difference do you think that would make?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    How much more would you guess?


    I figured it should, not sure why it wouldn't have in the study.


    Don't have full text, but didn't this also use regular DAA as opposed to Na-DAA as well? How much difference do you think that would make?
    All I know is the authors' conclusions are awful. They think DAA oxidase was elevated in response to prolonged supplementation, hence the lack of DAA effects at the 1-month mark. But there is a 3-month study showing T elevation, and there is no reason to believe that DAA-oxidase is downregulated in infertile men
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    I thought the general consensus was that test boosters in general were just fancy mood/libido enhancers with limited ability to help people with low test(Older people) build muscle. I've taken DAA before and enjoyed it, but had no impact on gains.
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    What did you enjoy about it without gains? I am just curious because more and more people I meet don't see any benefit, so I am genuinely curious what you took away from using it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    All I know is the authors' conclusions are awful. They think DAA oxidase was elevated in response to prolonged supplementation, hence the lack of DAA effects at the 1-month mark. But there is a 3-month study showing T elevation, and there is no reason to believe that DAA-oxidase is downregulated in infertile men
    the italian study was three months but they only tested testosterone for 12 days

    there is a 12 day study
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    All I know is the authors' conclusions are awful. They think DAA oxidase was elevated in response to prolonged supplementation, hence the lack of DAA effects at the 1-month mark. But there is a 3-month study showing T elevation, and there is no reason to believe that DAA-oxidase is downregulated in infertile men
    one of the reasons they concluded that was the blood levels of DAA not being very elevated at 30 days

    However they didnt do any earlier blood draws to compare against. the study design was flawed in that respect
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    What did you enjoy about it without gains? I am just curious because more and more people I meet don't see any benefit, so I am genuinely curious what you took away from using it.
    i'm not a huge fan of DAA as a standalone but it does increase libido a bit and could give a sense of well being....but nothing really that translates into the gym
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    What did you enjoy about it without gains? I am just curious because more and more people I meet don't see any benefit, so I am genuinely curious what you took away from using it.
    People like it because of the mood lift and mild energy boost it gives
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    People like it because of the mood lift and mild energy boost it gives
    I like it because when I use it I progress quicker. Normally I use during a 5x5 training cycle and I add weight more often
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    I think its funny how people just ignore coops and arnolds posts on the matter. Also if you read the article they were using free form DAA and not sodium or the chelated version. Wouldn't that make a huge difference or am I crazy for thinking that?!!!?!!!!
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    My dad who is in his 50s has been using DAA and erase for three month stretches and over the past year has lost 20+ lbs, and received a lot of strength and muscle gains. Granted he does manual labor and is in the gym 4 days a week with a solid diet but that simple addition has helped him immensely and with out TRT which his doc wont prescribe to him.
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    I like it because of the increased libido, mood, faster strength gains, and faster muscle gains. It also allows me to keep my strength while I cut calories. It's night and day as far as strength gains go, between being off it and being on it. I really don't consider myself a bodybuilder, but it's definitely not useless to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I like it because of the increased libido, mood, faster strength gains, and faster muscle gains. It also allows me to keep my strength while I cut calories. It's night and day as far as strength gains go, between being off it and being on it.
    My dad says there is a night and day difference in the month of two that he takes off. Mr. Arnold may have an answer to this would it be ok to stay on DAA and erase year round for a guy in his 50s or would there be adverse effects?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    When I take DAA I feel good in the gym.
    That might mean I lift harder.
    All I care about are the gains. More gains=more muscle.
    Placebo...
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmanall View Post
    I thought the general consensus was that test boosters in general were just fancy mood/libido enhancers with limited ability to help people with low test(Older people) build muscle. I've taken DAA before and enjoyed it, but had no impact on gains.
    Shouldn't have too much to do with body building then?
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    My dad says there is a night and day difference in the month of two that he takes off. Mr. Arnold may have an answer to this would it be ok to stay on DAA and erase year round for a guy in his 50s or would there be adverse effects?
    Might be suitable for long use for older people?
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    Quote Originally Posted by horizons View Post

    Placebo...
    Ok horizons we get it you hate DAA lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by horizons View Post

    Placebo...
    Caffeine must be placebo too then right? I get a boost from that.
    I think I know my body well enough to determine if a supplement is working for me or not lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    It is generally in the over 35, forums for those seeking TRT, and the >30 folks that are seeing that it really doesn't work all that well. In fact, many of us have found that it lowers test and increases e2. I think everyone needs to determine what works best for them when it comes to non script supplements, but in my opinion, DAA is worthless.
    Wow, I am 46 and love DAA - it allows me to lift like I was 25 - I would not have 1/2 the muscle I have right now without it. I seem to get lasting gains (small, but still gains) each cycle. Just MOP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakerwil View Post
    Wow, I am 46 and love DAA - it allows me to lift like I was 25 - I would not have 1/2 the muscle I have right now without it. I seem to get lasting gains (small, but still gains) each cycle. Just MOP.

    41 here and I agree. Like I said in my previous post, it's like night day, the difference in gains between when I cycle on DAA and when I'm off of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by horizons View Post
    Shouldn't have too much to do with body building then?
    Well it's ingrained in bodybuilding because it raises test, and laymen like to think that fluctuations within normal ranges will have have "steroid" like results. Might be useful to older males and is cheap enough to test out, in fact I bought a tub for my dad to test out. I used it a couple times, felt enough difference in mood to justify the cost every now and then. If younger people see gains from it I'd chalk it up to placebo, but if using it makes them feel they can add a little more weight to their lifts more power to them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    41 here and I agree. Like I said in my previous post, it's like night day, the difference in gains between when I cycle on DAA and when I'm off of it.
    Do You use it with an AI?
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    Do You use it with an AI?

    Depends what product I use. Lately I've been cycling on and off Test Powder. So in that case, yes. I've used PP TCF-1, TestForce 2, a few others I can't recall the names of. I first used the nutraplanet bulk powder when it was first introduced, loved daa ever since. I think it was 2010. With bulk stuff I never added anything to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    I think its funny how people just ignore coops and arnolds posts on the matter. Also if you read the article they were using free form DAA and not sodium or the chelated version. Wouldn't that make a huge difference or am I crazy for thinking that?!!!?!!!!
    Its possible
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