"Stimulant Break" Necessary, Science or BroScience?

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    "Stimulant Break" Necessary, Science or BroScience?


    I repeatedly see threads talking about "Stim Breaks". People in these threads are always saying how your adrenal glands can be burned out if you stay on stimulants too long. Is this actually true?. What is the point of a stimulant break besides to lower tolerance so you can lower your dosage and save money by getting the effect from a lower dosage?. Why not just switch products or stimulant types?. Wouldn't this accomplish the same thing?. I mean I'm a lifelong coffee drinker. I don't cycle my coffee or take a break and start drinking decaf. Really I don't know any lifelong coffee drinker that does such a thing. The thought of it is absolutely ludicrous. Please put this "Stimulant Break" THEORY to bed, or prove that it absolutely without a doubt is necessary for continued health. Somehow I doubt that your adrenal glands can actually be "burned out".
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    Good post. Subbed to hear from the intellectual giants!!
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    Yep waiting to hear from Coop.
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    And Synapsian? I think that's his username.
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    subbed. I have no clue either way, but I usually cycle off stimmed pre's with non stim ones personally.

    I see where you're coming from with the coffee comparison; I drink a lot of it, too. I remember when I first started drinking it regularly I'd be off the walls. Now I can drink a big cup and immediately fall dead asleep. So maybe cycling is a good idea?
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    Subbed, I've been drinking pots of coffee since I was 8 and haven't stopped, maybe about time to cycle off....or not?
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    I think the whole point of a stim break is to just let your tolerance go back down so that when use is resumed the original desired affect will be attained once again... After a while some things just don't work as well due to tolerance... I don't know about burnt out receptors lol I think it's just a tolerance issue as with any other drug

    Edit cycling coffee lmao ;-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godstrength View Post
    Edit cycling coffee lmao ;-)
    lol my fault, didn't mean to make it sound like anyone should cycle coffee . just sayin the obvious, that too much of anything the body's tolerance dramatically increases
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjbruno View Post

    lol my fault, didn't mean to make it sound like anyone should cycle coffee . just sayin the obvious, that too much of anything the body's tolerance dramatically increases
    Nah it's cool bro I get you... I think it was referred to 3 x in the thread...... Just struck me as funny haha
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    Bump for Coopers review.
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    I may not know exactly what I'm talking about, so take what I come up with with a grain of salt.

    Stimulants either cause a release of catecholamines, inhibit their degradation, or both. Either way, taking any stim for a prolonged period will cause the receptors to grow less dense resulting in less effects at the same dose (tolerance). As far as I know the main catecholamines released are dopamine, noradrenaline, and adrenaline, most of which are released with common supplements. Switching to another stim may give you a slightly different experience (yohimbine vs ephedrine vs dmaa) but overall won't change the sensitivity to stims as much as stopping all intake as they mainly work through the same catecholamines.

    But yeah the "my adrenals are dead halp" thing is lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackWinging View Post
    I may not know exactly what I'm talking about, so take what I come up with with a grain of salt.

    Stimulants either cause a release of catecholamines, inhibit their degradation, or both. Either way, taking any stim for a prolonged period will cause the receptors to grow less dense resulting in less effects at the same dose (tolerance). As far as I know the main catecholamines released are dopamine, noradrenaline, and adrenaline, most of which are released with common supplements. Switching to another stim may give you a slightly different experience (yohimbine vs ephedrine vs dmaa) but overall won't change the sensitivity to stims as much as stopping all intake as they mainly work through the same catecholamines.

    But yeah the "my adrenals are dead halp" thing is lol.

    So the only real issue is tolerance than, just as I thought. I've seen some people post that prolonged use can damage your central nervous system, and "burn out" you adrenal glands, which personally I think is a load of crap. Less tolerance doesn't mean less effectiveness though, only in the sense that you will get less energy and less "side effects" from the same dose. In other words if its a fat burner containing several different types of stimulants you will still get the fat burning and thermo effects although you might not "feel" them. The problem with stimulant type products, is people think because they can't "feel it" means that it is no longer working. This is just not the case.

    If I'm wrong about this, please someone prove it with actual factual scientific evidence. None of that, "Brah, you need to drop all stims and cycle off or your adrenals will stop working!".
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    Won't burn out your adrenals, but tolerance does become an issue.
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    What if your taking a break from AAS and during your off period or pct you use pre workouts , the whole reason I use pre workouts after cycles is because during my cycle I plateau and I have to raise my aas to very high dosages to start seeing things grow . So would taking pre workouts during my off time ruin my AAS sensitivity or would it have nothing to do with it , and when I get back on cycle Ill start seeing good gains again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    The problem with stimulant type products, is people think because they can't "feel it" means that it is no longer working.
    Usually that is exactly what it means, in the sense that you are no longer above your baseline due to downregulation. More tolerance = less effectiveness. After a time of being on the same dose, it becomes counterproductive and you are supplementing just to be “normal”.
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    Would tend to agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Won't burn out your adrenals, but tolerance does become an issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmats View Post
    Usually that is exactly what it means, in the sense that you are no longer above your baseline due to downregulation. More tolerance = less effectiveness. After a time of being on the same dose, it becomes counterproductive and you are supplementing just to be “normal”.

    I don't agree. The energy can still be there, even if you don't "feel it". Just because you don't "feel it" doesn't mean its not working. What most people "feel" when they first start taking a stimulant are side effects from stimulants. Jitters, "tunnel vision". Once those effects wear off though, it doesn't mean the product stopped working. For instance someone can take a pre-workout, and say I didn't "feel anything" from it. Yet, for some reason they seem to have increased reps and decreased rest between sets, yet because they felt no increase in heart, jitters, or what they themselves believe what "energy" feels like they think the product doesn't work. Or they could feel those symptoms the first couple times they try the product, but after a week or two no longer feel those symptoms and think the product stopped working, time for a break, because my body "got used to it". Yet they are still getting the increased reps and decreased rest time.
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    Subbed for more info as well. But my .02 is it is good to take a break from time to time because of the tolerance. Even with the coffee example, it's just not good for you if you're putting down three pots a day to feel "normal" as you used to with two cups of coffee. Same thing applies to PWO's. If you're taking 4 scoops to get some energy when the reccommended usage is 2 scoops than it might be time to take a step back for a short bit. Too much caffeine can be very bad for you, especially with high BP so a break should be taken if your tolerance is that high. That's not to mention cost either, if you're up to 4 scoops for example, that tub of PWO won't be lasting you very long and is no longer cost effective. Just my .02 and looking forward to more info on the topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I don't agree. The energy can still be there, even if you don't "feel it". Just because you don't "feel it" doesn't mean its not working. What most people "feel" when they first start taking a stimulant are side effects from stimulants. Jitters, "tunnel vision". Once those effects wear off though, it doesn't mean the product stopped working. For instance someone can take a pre-workout, and say I didn't "feel anything" from it. Yet, for some reason they seem to have increased reps and decreased rest between sets, yet because they felt no increase in heart, jitters, or what they themselves believe what "energy" feels like they think the product doesn't work. Or they could feel those symptoms the first couple times they try the product, but after a week or two no longer feel those symptoms and think the product stopped working, time for a break, because my body "got used to it". Yet they are still getting the increased reps and decreased rest time.
    I cant speak for what other people may or may not "feel", and your scenario is proof of nothing because its completely subjective.

    Downregulation is proven. If you are consistently dosing something like caffeine, youre going to end up at a point where you no longer get benefits, and are supplementing just to hit your baseline. That is, unless you up the dosage.
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    Have any of the recent ingredients in the newer stimulants and fat burners been studied, as far as tolerance build up and long term use effects?.
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    From what I've read/experienced the effects some stimulants have are retained while the amount of perceived energy is lowered. So, taking 20mg of yohimbine will basically do the same for fat loss from the first to last dose of a cycle, but you won't feel the same amount of energy because you've become too used to it. While you won't need to cycle it for it to work, it would be beneficial for extra energy.

    You will get tolerance after prolonged use but they will still generally have the same effects without you feeling the energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmats View Post
    I cant speak for what other people may or may not "feel", and your scenario is proof of nothing because its completely subjective.

    Downregulation is proven. If you are consistently dosing something like caffeine, youre going to end up at a point where you no longer get benefits, and are supplementing just to hit your baseline. That is, unless you up the dosage.

    I agree with you on this. I'm just questioning other benefits besides energy, and whether or not long term use is actually dangerous, or could there actually be some benefits of continued use as long as you don't consistently raise the dosage. Like with the pre-workout enhanced. I've seen reports of people that say they have been using it for over a month straight with no need to increase dosage. Still the same energy at the same dosage. Also what about all the non stimulant type ingredients included in fat burner and pre-workouts?. I just have these questions in my head is all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackWinging View Post
    From what I've read/experienced the effects some stimulants have are retained while the amount of perceived energy is lowered. So, taking 20mg of yohimbine will basically do the same for fat loss from the first to last dose of a cycle, but you won't feel the same amount of energy because you've become too used to it. While you won't need to cycle it for it to work, it would be beneficial for extra energy.

    You will get tolerance after prolonged use but they will still generally have the same effects without you feeling the energy.

    That's one of the things that I've been trying to say/establish in this thread.
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    Stim breaks are virtually pointless to me and my lifestyle. The benefits of stimulants (like caffeine) largely outweigh the negatives when used at reasonable doses and there should be no reason for someone to stop using them unless they are experiencing adverse effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post
    Stim breaks are virtually pointless to me and my lifestyle. The benefits of stimulants (like caffeine) largely outweigh the negatives when used at reasonable doses and there should be no reason for someone to stop using them unless they are experiencing adverse effects.

    Thank you so much!. Appreciate your input in here!
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    Adrenal fatigue is not real. Stim breaks don't make sense, people drink multiple cups of coffee a day and they're fine. I think its pointless. However I take a day off of caffeine here and there but I see no point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I don't agree. The energy can still be there, even if you don't "feel it". Just because you don't "feel it" doesn't mean its not working. What most people "feel" when they first start taking a stimulant are side effects from stimulants. Jitters, "tunnel vision". Once those effects wear off though, it doesn't mean the product stopped working. For instance someone can take a pre-workout, and say I didn't "feel anything" from it. Yet, for some reason they seem to have increased reps and decreased rest between sets, yet because they felt no increase in heart, jitters, or what they themselves believe what "energy" feels like they think the product doesn't work. Or they could feel those symptoms the first couple times they try the product, but after a week or two no longer feel those symptoms and think the product stopped working, time for a break, because my body "got used to it". Yet they are still getting the increased reps and decreased rest time.
    What he is saying is actually correct. When you take caffeine, the body upregulates certain enzymes whose job it is to deactivate caffeine. Over time, you need more caffeine to elicit the same effect because of this upregulation.
    Similarly, the body upregulates central adenosine receptors and so caffeine literally decreases in potency. Thus making you need more to continue to reap the effects of Caffeine. When you decrease your dose, you enter caffeine withdrawal which includes headaches etc until adenosine receptors return to baseline.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I agree with you on this. I'm just questioning other benefits besides energy, and whether or not long term use is actually dangerous, or could there actually be some benefits of continued use as long as you don't consistently raise the dosage. Like with the pre-workout enhanced. I've seen reports of people that say they have been using it for over a month straight with no need to increase dosage. Still the same energy at the same dosage. Also what about all the non stimulant type ingredients included in fat burner and pre-workouts?. I just have these questions in my head is all.
    Oh I see, yes the other effects of caffeine can still be reaped regardless of the energy hit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    What he is saying is actually correct. When you take caffeine, the body upregulates certain enzymes whose job it is to deactivate caffeine. Over time, you need more caffeine to elicit the same effect because of this upregulation.
    Similarly, the body upregulates central adenosine receptors and so caffeine literally decreases in potency. Thus making you need more to continue to reap the effects of Caffeine. When you decrease your dose, you enter caffeine withdrawal which includes headaches etc until adenosine receptors return to baseline.
    Do we have any idea how long a break we need to return to baseline? I essentially hit heavy stims during the week and try to stay relatively stim free during the weekend when I'm not working.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post
    Stim breaks are virtually pointless to me and my lifestyle. The benefits of stimulants (like caffeine) largely outweigh the negatives when used at reasonable doses and there should be no reason for someone to stop using them unless they are experiencing adverse effects.

    Yep!
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatMoar View Post
    Adrenal fatigue is not real. Stim breaks don't make sense, people drink multiple cups of coffee a day and they're fine. I think its pointless. However I take a day off of caffeine here and there but I see no point.

    Agreed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Do we have any idea how long a break we need to return to baseline? I essentially hit heavy stims during the week and try to stay relatively stim free during the weekend when I'm not working.
    Actually, I just read that adenosine receptors may not be the cause for tolerance.. I was basing it off these: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6298543; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3003486 however this study found that adenosine receptors were not the culprit for tolerance: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1846425

    It is possible to prevent tolerance by keeping the dosage low, however (i.e. a cup of coffee a day can continue to elicit its effects indefinitely).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Actually, I just read that adenosine receptors may not be the cause for tolerance.. I was basing it off these: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6298543; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3003486 however this study found that adenosine receptors were not the culprit for tolerance: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1846425

    It is possible to prevent tolerance by keeping the dosage low, however (i.e. a cup of coffee a day can continue to elicit its effects indefinitely).
    Doesn't work for me as well as my weekday doses (depending on what I'm running) may be pretty high. I frequently run E/C stack with some breaks, but even on those breaks from E/C I'll use something like Dexaprine, Alphamine, Thermogum, etc Pretty much take weekends off as I said.
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    have to listen to the joe rogan experience podcast w/ dave asprey....the first time he was on, he says adrenal fatigue does happen from coffee, but it's not from the stimulants in the coffee, it's the way it's processed and shipped, the coffee gets mold on it which is actually the factor for the adrenal fatigue and few other things

    he actually sells a coffee that he claims is processed and never had the mold on it.....if thats true for all stimulants or for the caffeine in most supplements, i'm not sure but i tend to buy into what the guy is saying, my friend bought his coffee and described it as a different type of "high"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    have to listen to the joe rogan experience podcast w/ dave asprey....the first time he was on, he says adrenal fatigue does happen from coffee, but it's not from the stimulants in the coffee, it's the way it's processed and shipped, the coffee gets mold on it which is actually the factor for the adrenal fatigue and few other things

    he actually sells a coffee that he claims is processed and never had the mold on it.....if thats true for all stimulants or for the caffeine in most supplements, i'm not sure but i tend to buy into what the guy is saying, my friend bought his coffee and described it as a different type of "high"

    I'll listen to Synapsin and Mr.Cooper69, thanks. They have brains. I don't know about Joe Rogan.....I just never thought of that guy as "Smart".
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I'll listen to Synapsin and Mr.Cooper69, thanks. They have brains. I don't know about Joe Rogan.....I just never thought of that guy as "Smart".
    ehh suite yourself....but it's not joe rogan making the claims, it's dave asprey
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    have to listen to the joe rogan experience podcast w/ dave asprey....the first time he was on, he says adrenal fatigue does happen from coffee, but it's not from the stimulants in the coffee, it's the way it's processed and shipped, the coffee gets mold on it which is actually the factor for the adrenal fatigue and few other things

    he actually sells a coffee that he claims is processed and never had the mold on it.....if thats true for all stimulants or for the caffeine in most supplements, i'm not sure but i tend to buy into what the guy is saying, my friend bought his coffee and described it as a different type of "high"
    Dave Asprey is a ****ing fool Im sorry to inform you. His coffee mold theory is utterly retarded. Even Rogan was very skeptical of him in later JRE podcasts (after he had time to do research and not just take Asprey at his word).

    The guy is an IT professional turned salesperson. He has many claims and most are without supporting evidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmats View Post
    Dave Asprey is a ****ing fool Im sorry to inform you. His coffee mold theory is utterly retarded. Even Rogan was very skeptical of him in later JRE podcasts (after he had time to do research and not just take Asprey at his word).
    Joe Rogan questions everything (see what i did there?) but at the end of the day joe still sells dave's coffee on his site. Most of the second podcast was questioning dave about other things dave talked about and not about the coffee though. Either way Dave isn't the only one who talked about mold on coffee beans, its just the easiest way for someone to access some of the information
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    Joe Rogan questions everything (see what i did there?) but at the end of the day joe still sells dave's coffee on his site. Most of the second podcast was questioning dave about other things dave talked about and not about the coffee though. Either way Dave isn't the only one who talked about mold on coffee beans, its just the easiest way for someone to access some of the information
    Well that is disappointing that Joe promotes that crap still. Though I guess I shouldnt expect much more from Joe than entertainment anyways.

    Dave Asprey just irks me. Here is an excerpt from his website - "You don’t like the taste of bad coffee for the same reason you don’t like the taste of gasoline: your body is telling you it’s toxic." I guess this is the extent of scientific method for Dave. Taste good = good for you , taste bad = bad for you. I picture Dave in a cave wielding a club as he says that. I wonder what Dave's theory is on stim breaks.
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