"Stimulant Break" Necessary, Science or BroScience?

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    Basically you misread what I wrote. What I stated was when the adrenal glands a.) shut down totally and b.) don't produce enough cortisol and/or aldosterone it can occur. Actually two forms of it, maybe I should've defined it a little better as adrenal insufficiency (fatigue). Anyway everyone's body reacts to certain stims different than others which merits the fact as I stated in my post that I personally do take breaks from stimulant pre-workouts etc. Pure plan and simple too much of anything will cause sometime to occur. Yet, stims basically fool the adrenal glands to put out more adrenaline which eventually for long-term usage can lead one to dependence, as the adrenals down-regulate and function poorly without the use of a stimulant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by john A. View Post
    Basically you misread what I wrote. What I stated was when the adrenal glands a.) shut down totally and b.) don't produce enough cortisol and/or aldosterone it can occur. Actually two forms of it, maybe I should've defined it a little better as adrenal insufficiency (fatigue). Anyway everyone's body reacts to certain stims different than others which merits the fact as I stated in my post that I personally do take breaks from stimulant pre-workouts etc. Pure plan and simple too much of anything will cause sometime to occur. Yet, stims basically fool the adrenal glands to put out more adrenaline which eventually for long-term usage can lead one to dependence, as the adrenals down-regulate and function poorly without the use of a stimulant.
    And you would be totally wrong. Addison's disease is not caused by the inability of the adrenal glands to function. It causes the inability of the adrenal glands to function.
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    Quote Originally Posted by john A. View Post
    Hello Horizons, The answer to your question is yes taking 1 week off a month from taking a break from stimulants. What happens is the body becomes so immune to the stimulants from caffeine or caffeine containing pre-workouts that they essentially stop working due to the adrenal glands working overtime & the fact it can damage your adrenal glands by literally blowing them out. Also, if you need a product to get your adrenal glands back to normal a must look into product from CTDLABS is Adrenal Reset this will help your adrenal glands back to normal as well as build your immune system, cheers
    ^this post just blew out my adrenal glands
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    So the consensus seems to be that stimulants do not cause adrenal fatigue... But is adrenal fatigue an actual condition caused by other factors other than stimulant use?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post
    So the consensus seems to be that stimulants do not cause adrenal fatigue... But is adrenal fatigue an actual condition caused by other factors other than stimulant use?
    Correct, the main reason to cycle stimulants is to reduce tolerance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmanall View Post
    Correct, the main reason to cycle stimulants is to reduce tolerance.
    So what are these factors? Would help bring some clarity to the discussion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post
    So what are these factors? Would help bring some clarity to the discussion
    To quote coop:If you don't feel stims, it is due to peripheral receptor downregulation.

    So it'd seem tolerance is not depleting your body of something, causing adrenal fatigue or anything of that nature. It's your body building a tolerance to something it's exposed to on a regular basis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post
    So the consensus seems to be that stimulants do not cause adrenal fatigue... But is adrenal fatigue an actual condition caused by other factors other than stimulant use?
    Yea, the "other factor" has been mentioned about a hundred times in this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmanall View Post
    To quote coop:If you don't feel stims, it is due to peripheral receptor downregulation.

    So it'd seem tolerance is not depleting your body of something, causing adrenal fatigue or anything of that nature. It's your body building a tolerance to something it's exposed to on a regular basis.
    I don't think I have articlulated my point clearly enough... So I'll try again

    Quote Originally Posted by mmats View Post
    Yea, the "other factor" has been mentioned about a hundred times in this thread.
    Addisons disease was mentioned in this thread as a vary rare autoimmune disease that causes the adrenal gland to not function properly... So addisons disease does not corelate with the multitude of claims of people who say they have experienced adrenal fatigue... what I'm trying to ascertain is are there any other factors that are responasable for the symptoms thst people have labeled as adrenal fatigue... because Addison's is defitnalty not adrenal fatigue... People have claimed to have recovered from adrenal fatigue swiftly through the use of adaptogens, licorce extract, adrenal bovine etc... None of that sh*t could help treat addisons... So what are the proponents of the adrenal fatigue diagnosis, actually diagnosing? What are people who claimed to have suffered from adrenal fatigue actually experiencing?


    From the mayo clinic site:

    Proponents of the adrenal fatigue diagnosis claim this is a mild form of adrenal insufficiency caused by chronic stress. The unproven theory behind adrenal fatigue is that your adrenal glands are unable to keep pace with the demands of perpetual fight-or-flight arousal. As a result, they can't produce quite enough of the hormones you need to feel good. Existing blood tests, according to this theory, aren't sensitive enough to detect such a small decline in adrenal function but your body is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post
    I don't think I have articlulated my point clearly enough... So I'll try again



    Addisons disease was mentioned in this thread as a vary rare autoimmune disease that causes the adrenal gland to not function properly... So addisons disease does not corelate with the multitude of claims of people who say they have experienced adrenal fatigue... what I'm trying to ascertain is are there any other factors that are responasable for the symptoms thst people have labeled as adrenal fatigue... because Addison's is defitnalty not adrenal fatigue... People have claimed to have recovered from adrenal fatigue swiftly through the use of adaptogens, licorce extract, adrenal bovine etc... None of that sh*t could help treat addisons... So what are the proponents of the adrenal fatigue diagnosis, actually diagnosing? What are people who claimed to have suffered from adrenal fatigue actually experiencing?


    From the mayo clinic site:

    Proponents of the adrenal fatigue diagnosis claim this is a mild form of adrenal insufficiency caused by chronic stress. The unproven theory behind adrenal fatigue is that your adrenal glands are unable to keep pace with the demands of perpetual fight-or-flight arousal. As a result, they can't produce quite enough of the hormones you need to feel good. Existing blood tests, according to this theory, aren't sensitive enough to detect such a small decline in adrenal function but your body is.
    You believe people on the internet who self diagnose themselves with adrenal fatigue and then cure it with adaptogens. That is neat
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    I see a ton of people on here and ask for medical advice instead of going to the doctor. What's even worse is people reply to them, telling them to self-medicate with supplements. I don't understand that. When I have a medical issue, the last place I want to ask questions is an internet message board.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post



    Addisons disease was mentioned in this thread as a vary rare autoimmune disease that causes the adrenal gland to not function properly... So addisons disease does not corelate with the multitude of claims of people who say they have experienced adrenal fatigue... what I'm trying to ascertain is are there any other factors that are responasable for the symptoms thst people have labeled as adrenal fatigue... because Addison's is defitnalty not adrenal fatigue... People have claimed to have recovered from adrenal fatigue swiftly through the use of adaptogens, licorce extract, adrenal bovine etc... None of that sh*t could help treat addisons... So what are the proponents of the adrenal fatigue diagnosis, actually diagnosing? What are people who claimed to have suffered from adrenal fatigue actually experiencing?
    The only thing I can think of is the acute stress/increased anxiety stimulants can cause to those who are stim sensitive is what people refer to as "adrenal fatigue". Doing a full .2mg/kg dose of yohimbine will give a good amount of people high anxiety, this combined with ordinary daily stress will surely give them a feeling of lethargy and irritability, and over a week would cause a significant amount of stress. I assume the help from adaptogens comes from lowering the perceived amount of stress they feel (which is generally heightened by the stims) and also the physical response to stress. This leads to people feeling normal, energized, happy, etc...
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    The .2mg/kg dose of yohimbine...Shouldn't that be spread out throughout the day instead of taken all at one time?.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    The .2mg/kg dose of yohimbine...Shouldn't that be spread out throughout the day instead of taken all at one time?.
    I've always used that as 1 dose. I'm about 100kg so I do 20mg along with 200mg of caffeine when I use it. I may do that 2-3 times a day if I know I'll be fasted, otherwise 1 morning dose.. Yohimbine loses its effect on me pretty fast, so I don't feel stimmed out after the first few days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmats View Post
    You believe people on the internet who self diagnose themselves with adrenal fatigue and then cure it with adaptogens. That is neat
    On the contrary... I do not believe the adrenal fatigue diagnosis... I am just relaying other peoples thoughts and experiences in order to get a deeper understanding of this matter

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I see a ton of people on here and ask for medical advice instead of going to the doctor. What's even worse is people reply to them, telling them to self-medicate with supplement s. I don't understand that. When I have a medical issue, the last place I want to ask questions is an internet message board.
    Couldn't agree more... but technically adrenal fatigue is not recognised by the medial community so this issue does not present itself in this case

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackWinging View Post
    The only thing I can think of is the acute stress/increased anxiety stimulants can cause to those who are stim sensitive is what people refer to as "adrenal fatigue". Doing a full .2mg/kg dose of yohimbine will give a good amount of people high anxiety, this combined with ordinary daily stress will surely give them a feeling of lethargy and irritability, and over a week would cause a significant amount of stress. I assume the help from adaptogens comes from lowering the perceived amount of stress they feel (which is generally heightened by the stims) and also the physical response to stress. This leads to people feeling normal, energized, happy, etc...
    Thanks for your input... So again you would say it boils down to an issue of tolerance but in this case individuals who are sensitive to stims... who probably would be better off without them
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    Quote Originally Posted by lronFist View Post
    ^this post just blew out my adrenal glands
    This is the real mechanism of adrenal fatigue. The adrenal glands get blown out of your body like an ejector seat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    This is the real mechanism of adrenal fatigue. The adrenal glands get blown out of your body like an ejector seat.
    Nah, its caused by the extreme stress of cooking shellfish.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mmats View Post
    Nah, its caused by the extreme stress of cooking shellfish.
    LOL
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    If adrenal fatigue is as bad or as common as some people pan it out to be here on AM then I should be the poster boy for it ( for the record it's being blown totally out of proportion ) and with that being said there are way way more stressors in life than just putting stimulants in your body that can cause these so called symptoms of adrenal fatigue.

    T-bone nailed it with the first post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post
    IExisting blood tests, according to this theory, aren't sensitive enough to detect such a small decline in adrenal function — but your body is.
    That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I'll listen to Synapsin and Mr.Cooper69, thanks. They have brains. I don't know about Joe Rogan.....I just never thought of that guy as "Smart".
    Can't really believe everything Joe Rogan says, some of his guests and some of the things Rogan says clearly demonstrate that they are off their rockers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Can't really believe everything Joe Rogan says, some of his guests and some of the things Rogan says clearly demonstrate that they are off their rockers.
    Wait wut? are you saying Joe Rogan is not the go to guy for science backed radio.....my world will never be the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post
    Wait wut? are you saying Joe Rogan is not the go to guy for science backed radio.....my world will never be the same.
    Bwah ha ha ha. I consider him a pseudo-science-hippie tbh.
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    If I was making a list of terms that get misused the most on exercise forums, "adrenal fatigue" would probably only be topped by "synergy" and "overtraining"
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    Quote Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    If I was making a list of terms that get misused the most on exercise forums, "adrenal fatigue" would probably only be topped by "synergy" and "overtraining"

    "Compound"
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    "Compound"
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    Quote Originally Posted by john A. View Post
    Hello Horizons, The answer to your question is yes taking 1 week off a month from taking a break from stimulants. What happens is the body becomes so immune to the stimulants from caffeine or caffeine containing pre-workouts that they essentially stop working due to the adrenal glands working overtime & the fact it can damage your adrenal glands by literally blowing them out. Also, if you need a product to get your adrenal glands back to normal a must look into product from CTDLABS is Adrenal Reset this will help your adrenal glands back to normal as well as build your immune system, cheers
    Thanks for clearing everything up literally?
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    Cool thread, except the adrenal fatigue rubbish.
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    I didn't think adrenal fatigue was real until I started napping 2 hours after taking 2 scoops of alphamine, or 1 hour after 25mg ephedrine recently on my 5 month non-stop use of stims

    Have a hard time coming to terms with napping after such powerful stims to just be 'tolerance' related
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMachineX View Post
    Cool thread, except the adrenal fatigue rubbish.
    It's not rubbish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by whyteboi View Post
    I didn't think adrenal fatigue was real until I started napping 2 hours after taking 2 scoops of alphamine, or 1 hour after 25mg ephedrine recently on my 5 month non-stop use of stims Have a hard time coming to terms with napping after such powerful stims to just be 'tolerance' related
    Same here. I thought it was BS until I experienced it. Couple months off stims and I'm back in business.
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    Quote Originally Posted by suthernmuscle View Post

    Same here. I thought it was BS until I experienced it. Couple months of stims and I'm back in business.
    Are those the only symptoms you had?
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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    Are those the only symptoms you had?
    Symptoms were exhaustion at end of day, sleeplessness, hangover like headaches in the morning. I would drink a Monster and feel tired 30 minutes later. I simply felt awful. So I stared weaning off the caffeine, and voila, I started feeling better.

    So adrenal fatigue is a hoax? Well tell me how someone can drink two Monsters in 15 minutes and be taking a nap an hour later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by suthernmuscle View Post
    Symptoms were exhaustion at end of day, sleeplessness, hangover like headaches in the morning. I would drink a Monster and feel tired 30 minutes later. I simply felt awful. So I stared weaning off the caffeine, and voila, I started feeling better.

    So adrenal fatigue is a hoax? Well tell me how someone can drink two Monsters in 15 minutes and be taking a nap an hour later.
    By upregulation of CYP enzymes and depletion of various NTs plus downregulation of DA receptors. Not because of adrenal fatigue, which is known as Addison's disease. Read the whole thread
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    isnt there some long term negative effects of long term stimulant use?



    also anyone feel like mentaly slow once the preworkout wears off?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronAsylum View Post
    isnt there some long term negative effects of long term stimulant use? also anyone feel like mentaly slow once the preworkout wears off?
    I think it depends on what we call the "stimulant". If talking caffeine then I think the answer is really no. People have been drinking coffee forever. But couple in the other ingredients and sweeteners and then the answer gets a little more complicated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    By upregulation of CYP enzymes and depletion of various NTs plus downregulation of DA receptors. Not because of adrenal fatigue, which is known as Addison's disease. Read the whole thread
    Sorry, thought I did.
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    Mr. Cooper, Would taking tyrosine or anything else help prevent any of those things you first mentioned?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMachineX View Post
    Mr. Cooper, Would taking tyrosine or anything else help prevent any of those things you first mentioned?
    Only in the case of chronic use of a releasing agent, i.e.amphetamine. Not caffeine
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    Gotcha, thanks.
  

  
 

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