"Stimulant Break" Necessary, Science or BroScience?

[T-Bone]

Have any of the recent ingredients in the newer stimulants and fat burners been studied, as far as tolerance build up and long term use effects?.

[BlackWinging]

From what I've read/experienced the effects some stimulants have are retained while the amount of perceived energy is lowered. So, taking 20mg of yohimbine will basically do the same for fat loss from the first to last dose of a cycle, but you won't feel the same amount of energy because you've become too used to it. While you won't need to cycle it for it to work, it would be beneficial for extra energy.

You will get tolerance after prolonged use but they will still generally have the same effects without you feeling the energy.

[T-Bone]

I cant speak for what other people may or may not "feel", and your scenario is proof of nothing because its completely subjective.

Downregulation is proven. If you are consistently dosing something like caffeine, youre going to end up at a point where you no longer get benefits, and are supplementing just to hit your baseline. That is, unless you up the dosage.

I agree with you on this. I'm just questioning other benefits besides energy, and whether or not long term use is actually dangerous, or could there actually be some benefits of continued use as long as you don't consistently raise the dosage. Like with the pre-workout enhanced. I've seen reports of people that say they have been using it for over a month straight with no need to increase dosage. Still the same energy at the same dosage. Also what about all the non stimulant type ingredients included in fat burner and pre-workouts?. I just have these questions in my head is all.

[T-Bone]

From what I've read/experienced the effects some stimulants have are retained while the amount of perceived energy is lowered. So, taking 20mg of yohimbine will basically do the same for fat loss from the first to last dose of a cycle, but you won't feel the same amount of energy because you've become too used to it. While you won't need to cycle it for it to work, it would be beneficial for extra energy.

You will get tolerance after prolonged use but they will still generally have the same effects without you feeling the energy.

That's one of the things that I've been trying to say/establish in this thread.

[Synapsin]

Stim breaks are virtually pointless to me and my lifestyle. The benefits of stimulants (like caffeine) largely outweigh the negatives when used at reasonable doses and there should be no reason for someone to stop using them unless they are experiencing adverse effects.

[T-Bone]

Stim breaks are virtually pointless to me and my lifestyle. The benefits of stimulants (like caffeine) largely outweigh the negatives when used at reasonable doses and there should be no reason for someone to stop using them unless they are experiencing adverse effects.

Thank you so much!. Appreciate your input in here!

[EatMoar]

Adrenal fatigue is not real. Stim breaks don't make sense, people drink multiple cups of coffee a day and they're fine. I think its pointless. However I take a day off of caffeine here and there but I see no point.

[Jiigzz]

I don't agree. The energy can still be there, even if you don't "feel it". Just because you don't "feel it" doesn't mean its not working. What most people "feel" when they first start taking a stimulant are side effects from stimulants. Jitters, "tunnel vision". Once those effects wear off though, it doesn't mean the product stopped working. For instance someone can take a pre-workout, and say I didn't "feel anything" from it. Yet, for some reason they seem to have increased reps and decreased rest between sets, yet because they felt no increase in heart, jitters, or what they themselves believe what "energy" feels like they think the product doesn't work. Or they could feel those symptoms the first couple times they try the product, but after a week or two no longer feel those symptoms and think the product stopped working, time for a break, because my body "got used to it". Yet they are still getting the increased reps and decreased rest time.

What he is saying is actually correct. When you take caffeine, the body upregulates certain enzymes whose job it is to deactivate caffeine. Over time, you need more caffeine to elicit the same effect because of this upregulation.
Similarly, the body upregulates central adenosine receptors and so caffeine literally decreases in potency. Thus making you need more to continue to reap the effects of Caffeine. When you decrease your dose, you enter caffeine withdrawal which includes headaches etc until adenosine receptors return to baseline.

[Jiigzz]

I agree with you on this. I'm just questioning other benefits besides energy, and whether or not long term use is actually dangerous, or could there actually be some benefits of continued use as long as you don't consistently raise the dosage. Like with the pre-workout enhanced. I've seen reports of people that say they have been using it for over a month straight with no need to increase dosage. Still the same energy at the same dosage. Also what about all the non stimulant type ingredients included in fat burner and pre-workouts?. I just have these questions in my head is all.

Oh I see, yes the other effects of caffeine can still be reaped regardless of the energy hit.

[Geoforce]

What he is saying is actually correct. When you take caffeine, the body upregulates certain enzymes whose job it is to deactivate caffeine. Over time, you need more caffeine to elicit the same effect because of this upregulation.
Similarly, the body upregulates central adenosine receptors and so caffeine literally decreases in potency. Thus making you need more to continue to reap the effects of Caffeine. When you decrease your dose, you enter caffeine withdrawal which includes headaches etc until adenosine receptors return to baseline.

Do we have any idea how long a break we need to return to baseline? I essentially hit heavy stims during the week and try to stay relatively stim free during the weekend when I'm not working.

[T-Bone]

Stim breaks are virtually pointless to me and my lifestyle. The benefits of stimulants (like caffeine) largely outweigh the negatives when used at reasonable doses and there should be no reason for someone to stop using them unless they are experiencing adverse effects.

Yep!

[T-Bone]

Adrenal fatigue is not real. Stim breaks don't make sense, people drink multiple cups of coffee a day and they're fine. I think its pointless. However I take a day off of caffeine here and there but I see no point.

Agreed.

[Jiigzz]

Do we have any idea how long a break we need to return to baseline? I essentially hit heavy stims during the week and try to stay relatively stim free during the weekend when I'm not working.

Actually, I just read that adenosine receptors may not be the cause for tolerance.. I was basing it off these: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6298543; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3003486 however this study found that adenosine receptors were not the culprit for tolerance: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1846425

It is possible to prevent tolerance by keeping the dosage low, however (i.e. a cup of coffee a day can continue to elicit its effects indefinitely).

[Geoforce]

Actually, I just read that adenosine receptors may not be the cause for tolerance.. I was basing it off these: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6298543; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3003486 however this study found that adenosine receptors were not the culprit for tolerance: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1846425

It is possible to prevent tolerance by keeping the dosage low, however (i.e. a cup of coffee a day can continue to elicit its effects indefinitely).

Doesn't work for me as well as my weekday doses (depending on what I'm running) may be pretty high. I frequently run E/C stack with some breaks, but even on those breaks from E/C I'll use something like Dexaprine, Alphamine, Thermogum, etc Pretty much take weekends off as I said.

[Young Gotti]

have to listen to the joe rogan experience podcast w/ dave asprey....the first time he was on, he says adrenal fatigue does happen from coffee, but it's not from the stimulants in the coffee, it's the way it's processed and shipped, the coffee gets mold on it which is actually the factor for the adrenal fatigue and few other things

he actually sells a coffee that he claims is processed and never had the mold on it.....if thats true for all stimulants or for the caffeine in most supplements, i'm not sure but i tend to buy into what the guy is saying, my friend bought his coffee and described it as a different type of "high"

[T-Bone]

have to listen to the joe rogan experience podcast w/ dave asprey....the first time he was on, he says adrenal fatigue does happen from coffee, but it's not from the stimulants in the coffee, it's the way it's processed and shipped, the coffee gets mold on it which is actually the factor for the adrenal fatigue and few other things

he actually sells a coffee that he claims is processed and never had the mold on it.....if thats true for all stimulants or for the caffeine in most supplements, i'm not sure but i tend to buy into what the guy is saying, my friend bought his coffee and described it as a different type of "high"

I'll listen to Synapsin and Mr.Cooper69, thanks. They have brains. I don't know about Joe Rogan.....I just never thought of that guy as "Smart".

[Young Gotti]

I'll listen to Synapsin and Mr.Cooper69, thanks. They have brains. I don't know about Joe Rogan.....I just never thought of that guy as "Smart".

ehh suite yourself....but it's not joe rogan making the claims, it's dave asprey

[mmats]

have to listen to the joe rogan experience podcast w/ dave asprey....the first time he was on, he says adrenal fatigue does happen from coffee, but it's not from the stimulants in the coffee, it's the way it's processed and shipped, the coffee gets mold on it which is actually the factor for the adrenal fatigue and few other things

he actually sells a coffee that he claims is processed and never had the mold on it.....if thats true for all stimulants or for the caffeine in most supplements, i'm not sure but i tend to buy into what the guy is saying, my friend bought his coffee and described it as a different type of "high"

Dave Asprey is a ****ing fool Im sorry to inform you. His coffee mold theory is utterly retarded. Even Rogan was very skeptical of him in later JRE podcasts (after he had time to do research and not just take Asprey at his word).

The guy is an IT professional turned salesperson. He has many claims and most are without supporting evidence.

[Young Gotti]

Dave Asprey is a ****ing fool Im sorry to inform you. His coffee mold theory is utterly retarded. Even Rogan was very skeptical of him in later JRE podcasts (after he had time to do research and not just take Asprey at his word).

Joe Rogan questions everything (see what i did there?) but at the end of the day joe still sells dave's coffee on his site. Most of the second podcast was questioning dave about other things dave talked about and not about the coffee though. Either way Dave isn't the only one who talked about mold on coffee beans, its just the easiest way for someone to access some of the information

[mmats]

Joe Rogan questions everything (see what i did there?) but at the end of the day joe still sells dave's coffee on his site. Most of the second podcast was questioning dave about other things dave talked about and not about the coffee though. Either way Dave isn't the only one who talked about mold on coffee beans, its just the easiest way for someone to access some of the information

Well that is disappointing that Joe promotes that crap still. Though I guess I shouldnt expect much more from Joe than entertainment anyways.

Dave Asprey just irks me. Here is an excerpt from his website - "You don’t like the taste of bad coffee for the same reason you don’t like the taste of gasoline: your body is telling you it’s toxic." I guess this is the extent of scientific method for Dave. Taste good = good for you , taste bad = bad for you. I picture Dave in a cave wielding a club as he says that. I wonder what Dave's theory is on stim breaks.