Thought on Higher Importance of Sleep/Recovery Supplements

[propho]

So I've been thinking lately in regards to hitting my supplement regime differently..

Should there be higher importance/emphasis on sleep/recovery supplements over test boosting and/or preworkout supplements?

Preworkout supplements
- Taken later in the day would affect quality of sleep.
- Taken in the morning would not be required if quality of sleep has been improved/enhanced.

Test boosting supplements
- Can cause hormonal imbalances when coming off of them.

Sleep supplements
- Improved sleep should boost your body's natural production and also balance your hormones that includes lower cortisol levels.
- The body naturally uses the time you sleep to recover so why not aid it further in recovery by enhancing it.
- Higher GH released during sleep.
- Quicker muscle recovery.
- Reduction in body fat.

Recovery supplements
- Don't need to really go over these as it shouldn't be more than protein, amino's, and proper diet.

So rather than burning up money on Test Boosting and Preworkout supplements I'm thinking this budget should be used towards sleep and recovery supplements as I feel like these essentially are the opposite side of the spectrum and would benefit/work with your body's natural rhythm.

 

[alwaysfirst]

I think it a place for both but I do love a good sleep supp that puts me out the whole night!

 

[kissdadookie]

Lucky for you OP, sleep aids are probably one of the most inexpensive supplements you can buy. Currently I'm using Resurrect PM, then going to try out REM 8.0, then go back to Abyss Unparalleled for 2 bottles back to back.

Honestly, my money is still going to be on Abyss Unparalleled, the one bottle I finished a few weeks back totally readjusted my sleep pattern.

 

[Young Gotti]

i really enjoy quality sleep products....Lights Out has been something I've wanted to try since it's release

however i do have to say the other categories do have their place....if you can get a quality pre workout then you could really crush your workout or work harder than you may already work....thats important too right?

a good test booster could also have you feeling like a king inside and outside of the gym and thats usually an all day feeling that i personally enjoy

 

[McCrew530]

Keep in mind its not always the amount of sleep you get but the quality of sleep you get. A majority of those benefits that were mentioned are only achieved when you get into the deep stage of sleep known as REM or Rapid eye movement

Simply practicing good pre sleep habits can increase the quality of your sleep ten fold. Also making sure that your bed and pillow are correct for your body type is equally as important. Tossing and turning snap you out of your sleep cycle only for a moment but it can have a huge impact on the amount of time you stay in REM. Your body tosses and turns for two reasons too much pressure or not enough support. So making sure that you have an ideal sleep environment customized to your body is key. Sleep aids can help but only so much.

 

[propho]

True on the improved sleep from actual "hardware" which is something I've been wanting to upgrade myself..

My problem with preworkout's is the quick tolerance build up to them.. since I have minimal experience with sleep aid's is tolerance build up quick on these?

I know there are typical blends of melatonin, 5htp, and gaba supps that are supposed to aide with sleep but I guess what I'm leaning towards is more of the "new age" stuff that has been coming out involving peptides etc(I see Lights Out has humanofort in it though my knowledge on that is minimal). The upcoming Sleephoria from Evomuse also has some intriguing ingredients as well on top of the typical sleep aides.

So far I see the list of sleep aides that are outside of the standard mixture seem to be (in no order and I'm sure I've missed some):
iForce Lights Out
Evomuse Sleephoria
Nimbus Abyss Unparalleled
Antaeus Oneiromancer

I'm a bit weary of reviews now on a lot of sites because I feel like people are paid to post positive reviews across all of the major sites..

Any other input on people that have had continued success with some sleep aids/recovery products?

 

[Young Gotti]

True on the improved sleep from actual "hardware" which is something I've been wanting to upgrade myself..

My problem with preworkout's is the quick tolerance build up to them.. since I have minimal experience with sleep aid's is tolerance build up quick on these?

I know there are typical blends of melatonin, 5htp, and gaba supps that are supposed to aide with sleep but I guess what I'm leaning towards is more of the "new age" stuff that has been coming out involving peptides etc(I see Lights Out has humanofort in it though my knowledge on that is minimal). The upcoming Sleephoria from Evomuse also has some intriguing ingredients as well on top of the typical sleep aides.

So far I see the list of sleep aides that are outside of the standard mixture seem to be (in no order and I'm sure I've missed some):
iForce Lights Out
Evomuse Sleephoria
Nimbus Abyss Unparalleled
Antaeus Oneiromancer

I'm a bit weary of reviews now on a lot of sites because I feel like people are paid to post positive reviews across all of the major sites..

Any other input on people that have had continued success with some sleep aids/recovery products?

for someone who has tried a bunch of sleep aids...i can say yes, on most of them you build a tolerance after awhile, personally what i've been doing lately is using the sleep aids during the week when i have to wake up for work and not on the weekends...thats why i'm so intrigued to try Lights Out, it doesn't have just the same ingredients as a bunch of the other sleep aids...but i do love 5 htp

i would be careful though as some of the hgh products i've tried actually keep me up at night...while others knock me out

 

[kissdadookie]

for someone who has tried a bunch of sleep aids...i can say yes, on most of them you build a tolerance after awhile, personally what i've been doing lately is using the sleep aids during the week when i have to wake up for work and not on the weekends...thats why i'm so intrigued to try Lights Out, it doesn't have just the same ingredients as a bunch of the other sleep aids...but i do love 5 htp

i would be careful though as some of the hgh products i've tried actually keep me up at night...while others knock me out

You should give Abyss a shot. It kind of works the complete opposite of most sleep aids. The effects accumulate and builds up rather than diminish with continued use.

 

[Young Gotti]

You should give Abyss a shot. It kind of works the complete opposite of most sleep aids. The effects accumulate and builds up rather than diminish with continued use.

i try and stay away from gaba, thats one of the ingredients that keeps me awake

 

[kissdadookie]

i try and stay away from gaba, thats one of the ingredients that keeps me awake

It's only 200mg's of it in Abyss I think, but then again, I do not know how it is with people that are kept awake by GABA

 

[Young Gotti]

It's only 200mg's of it in Abyss I think, but then again, I do not know how it is with people that are kept awake by GABA

thats true, the stuff that really kept me away was 600mg's

it's awful, i get tired but can't sleep and i get like a thermo effect sort of

 

[kissdadookie]

thats true, the stuff that really kept me away was 600mg's

it's awful, i get tired but can't sleep and i get like a thermo effect sort of

Interesting, GABA at higher dosages at first just gave me some heavy breathing initially. Then that kind of resided.

 

[propho]

Oddly, a lot of people said they sleep well with ZMA and that **** keeps me awake :| I fear it..

 

[alwaysfirst]

I like 2-3g GABA
Powerfull is pretty good also
I tried Somatomax and slept great on that but it's pretty expensive

 

[Young Gotti]

I like 2-3g GABA
Powerfull is pretty good also
I tried Somatomax and slept great on that but it's pretty expensive

kept me awake as well, not really sure why but i didn't get good sleep

thats why i'm looking at lights out, doesn't look like anything that will keep me awake, looks better for recovery than most otc sleep products too

 

[alwaysfirst]

kept me awake as well, not really sure why but i didn't get good sleep

thats why i'm looking at lights out, doesn't look like anything that will keep me awake, looks better for recovery than most otc sleep products too

I had a couple of supps that did that to me also. Lights Out looks good but try Somatomax when you get a chance, it's the best I ever tried!

 

[booneman77]

I haven't tried many sleep aids but I have used some gda's at bed time and found that these were a huuuggggeee benefit to me sleeping faster and through the night. A nice side effect to their true purpose. Glycophase in particular has had the best pre bed impact for me

 

[rob112]

Can we maybe get some hypothesis on the cause of some sleep products having a stimulatory effect?

 

[LivingStrongE]

Mod edit: This is not a section to get your "mentions"

 

[veaderko]

Mod edit: This is not a section to get your "mentions"

 

[mr.cooper69]

The GH benefits from sleep aids are actually quite negligible for recovery, but sleep aids still considerably improved CNS recovery, which causes increases in strength and increased preparedness for your next session. For me, when I'm sleep-deprived, there's a night and day difference in my workout performance, 24-hour mood, appetite, etc. Sleep will be a major focus of the medical field in coming years

 

[alwaysfirst]

The GH benefits from sleep aids are actually quite negligible for recovery, but sleep aids still considerably improved CNS recovery, which causes increases in strength and increased preparedness for your next session. For me, when I'm sleep-deprived, there's a night and day difference in my workout performance, 24-hour mood, appetite, etc. Sleep will be a major focus of the medical field in coming years

I'm the same, I can't function at all without proper sleep. If I don't have a good night of sleep I make sure I take a sleep aid the next night so I can get back on track.

 

[rob112]

Can we maybe get some hypothesis on the cause of some sleep products having a stimulatory effect?

Heeeeyyyyyooooo


In case anyone with an idea missed this.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Heeeeyyyyyooooo


In case anyone with an idea missed this.

Which product? If it has l-dopa, it's self-explanatory

 

[rob112]

Which product? If it has l-dopa, it's self-explanatory

I am an idiot on the mucana...I get it from Valarian too though.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I am an idiot on the mucana...I get it from Valarian too though.

It's tough to say...do they keep you up right away or do you wake up in the middle of the night and have trouble going back into restful sleep?

 

[rob112]

It's tough to say...do they keep you up right away or do you wake up in the middle of the night and have trouble going back into restful sleep?

It's more if I don't fall asleep quickly after taking. It's like there is a point where I take a sleep aid and if I'm not asleep in a half hour it keeps me up. Zzquil seems to be the exception so far.

 

[mcc23]

If I take any L-Dopa past 5pm, it takes me about an hour to an hour and a half to fall asleep..

Thats with ZMA and L-tryp

 

[cdiblasi]

It's more if I don't fall asleep quickly after taking. It's like there is a point where I take a sleep aid and if I'm not asleep in a half hour it keeps me up. Zzquil seems to be the exception so far.

The active ingredient in Zzquil is just diphenhydramine which is Benadryl.

A good night's sleep has so many positive benefits across the board and is usually neglected by many. Practicing good sleep habits and getting an adequate amount of sleep will be more beneficial to well-being, your workouts, and gains than most supplements on the market you take. With that said, sleep aids are not a cure-all with the fact that you should practice good sleep habits (google them if unaware), but they will help you fall asleep as well as get more restful sleep. I respond pretty well personally to valerian and melatonin and any supplements containing them (such as Oneiromancer) and they can really enhance many aspects of your life.

 

[propho]

Yup... That's kind of where I was trying to go by starting this thread..

Am I correct in saying taking melatonin regularly is bad in that your body won't naturally produce enough of it afterward?

 

[McCrew530]

Does any one on here regularly take unisom? I have found that to be one of the better non habit forming OTC sleep aids on the market

 

[kissdadookie]

Does any one on here regularly take unisom? I have found that to be one of the better non habit forming OTC sleep aids on the market

Nope, but Abyss Unparalleled I believe is non-habit forming. The stuff actually gets better the longer you use it which IMO must be the complete opposite of habit forming

As an aside, I've been using REM 8.0 for a few days (maybe a week now? forgot when I started taking the stuff), it's friggin strong. Very good chance you will get a hung over feeling when you wake up the first few times you use the stuff. Definitely start with half a scoop to assess your tolerance (I'm nonsensical and went with the full scoop personally the first time, I figured that I've used GABA and mucuna at relatively potent doses for awhile that my tolerances should be ok). The hung over feeling has started to tame down a fair bit though. Very effective product, if you need something to knock you out, this is a good product to try.

 

[booneman77]

Nope, but Abyss Unparalleled I believe is non-habit forming. The stuff actually gets better the longer you use it which IMO must be the complete opposite of habit forming

I believe this is what one would call addiction ha

 

[cdiblasi]

Am I correct in saying taking melatonin regularly is bad in that your body won't naturally produce enough of it afterward?

Good question. As far as I know, at this time, there aren't any studies to show whether this is true or not. I, for one, would not take melatonin or any product containing melatonin for extended periods (more than 1-2 months) without some break.

Does any one on here regularly take unisom? I have found that to be one of the better non habit forming OTC sleep aids on the market

There are two different possible drugs Unisom can contain based on the formulation, and one of those two drugs is diphenhydramine, which, once again, is just Benadryl.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Melatonin has been shown to be non-habit forming in 6 months trials. In fact, users get sensitized to its effects with continuous use

 

[saggy321]

I've used a sleep monitoring app on my phone for a few weeks and the factor that contributed most to a higher proportion of deeper sleep was sleep hygiene. So for example going to bed at the same time, having a relaxing bath before bed and not watching any TV or using the PC at least an hour before bed. Simple I know, but try following a somewhat rigid routine for a few days and you will see improvements.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I've used a sleep monitoring app on my phone for a few weeks and the factor that contributed most to a higher proportion of deeper sleep was sleep hygiene. So for example going to bed at the same time, having a relaxing bath before bed and not watching any TV or using the PC at least an hour before bed. Simple I know, but try following a somewhat rigid routine for a few days and you will see improvements.

Did you find that app to be accurate? I'm considering grabbing it

 

[mcc23]

Did you find that app to be accurate? I'm considering grabbing it

If you have an Android device, Sleep Bot is solid.

 

[JudoJosh]

Sleep is for the weak

 

[rob112]

Sleep is for the weak

Bears sleep all winter and they are pretty bad ass...

 

[smoker145]

Sleep is for the weak

I can't stay asleep for more than 3-4 hours at a time. Majority of the time I get Around 6 hours of sleep. Sometimes a lot less, sometimes more.

I agree with your statement thou. Yea I may be tired and fall asleep in my classes and not have energy at work, but that doesn't stop me from moving heavy weight for me

 

[saggy321]

Did you find that app to be accurate? I'm considering grabbing it

My sister uses one for the iPhone and says its not great. I use one on the Android called 'sleep for android' and it's very good. It could be the combination of ultra sensitive motion sensors in the S4 and a better app. The graphs and stats on it a pretty good - would be right up your street!

 

[broons]

I'd be interested to know if there are any supplements that can mitigate some of the side effects of working third shift, besides the obvious melatonin. I don't really have trouble falling asleep but no matter how much sleep I get, I'm always tired. My biggest problem is waking up. I literally have four alarms at my bedside and one is a sonic boom and there are days I don't hear any of them.

And then on the weekend's of course, to have a normal social life I have to pretty much flip flop my schedule, which is equivalent to jet lag all weekend. So if there were any supplements that would help mitigate any of that, that would be awesome.

 

[smoker145]

I'd be interested to know if there are any supplements that can mitigate some of the side effects of working third shift, besides the obvious melatonin. I don't really have trouble falling asleep but no matter how much sleep I get, I'm always tired. My biggest problem is waking up. I literally have four alarms at my bedside and one is a sonic boom and there are days I don't hear any of them.

And then on the weekend's of course, to have a normal social life I have to pretty much flip flop my schedule, which is equivalent to jet lag all weekend. So if there were any supplements that would help mitigate any of that, that would be awesome.

If your always tired you could be b12 deficient. Could get tested for it

 

[mcc23]

If your always tired you could be b12 deficient. Could get tested for it

That's one of a million potential culprits for the given symptoms

 

[BlackWinging]

I'd be interested to know if there are any supplements that can mitigate some of the side effects of working third shift, besides the obvious melatonin. I don't really have trouble falling asleep but no matter how much sleep I get, I'm always tired. My biggest problem is waking up. I literally have four alarms at my bedside and one is a sonic boom and there are days I don't hear any of them.

And then on the weekend's of course, to have a normal social life I have to pretty much flip flop my schedule, which is equivalent to jet lag all weekend. So if there were any supplements that would help mitigate any of that, that would be awesome.

It sounds like the quality of your sleep is the problem, and the only supplements I know of to increase sleep quality work through GABA. Using supplements such as valerian root with lemon balm or my personal favorite l-theanine could potentially work well for you, but I'd suggest trying for yourself. Using these could make it harder to wake up in the morning, but have you feeling more rested at the same time, so experimentation is necessary to find your own sweet spot.

Adrafinil/modafinil would be good for the weekend. They basically allow you to stay awake for an extra couple hours without feeling tired and aren't a classical stimulant like caffeine. Only downsides are tolerance, heavy use of adrafinil can increase liver enzymes, and modafinil is expensive from India or you have to get a prescription for having shift work disorder.

 

[smoker145]

That's one of a million potential culprits for the given symptoms

One down. 999,999 to go

 

[mcc23]

One down. 999,999 to go

Fair enough. However a succinct thorough blood panel work up could help eliminate more possibilities. Also he could look at what he's eating for potential food intolerances.

 

[smoker145]

Fair enough. However a succinct thorough blood panel work up could help eliminate more possibilities. Also he could look at what he's eating for potential food intolerances.

I agree.