Best Joint/Tendon Supplement on the market?

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    Best Joint/Tendon Supplement on the market?


    Have a lot of problems with patellar tendonitis. First MRI just showed inflammation and now I'm getting a second after a cortisone shot did nothing. In the mean time what would you consider the best supplement for joint health, singular ingredient or comprehensive supplement? Looking to take something to help and be preventative in the future.

    I ice, use a rehband compression sleeve, foam roll, attend PT, and use ibuprofen at the moment as advised by the ortho but he had no idea on joint/tendon supplements and was wondering if any were worth while in some of the smarter individuals opinions. I have very limited knowledge in this area besides what the talking head of a doctor has told me for the last year while providing zero relief.

    I'm guessing my next step is synvisc or surgery in the near future after the MRI.

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    iForce Joint help is excellent. Cissus Quadrangularis one of the ingredients have been used to heal broken bones, help out with tendon,ligament problems. I always stayed away from those cortisone shots which they wanted to use on my AC Joint. Talk to your doctor about surgery options if it's needed.
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    I think fish oil is suppose to help with inflamation and joints. Sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. Though, I personally use fish oil and iForce Joint Help.
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    iForce's product may be best for your situation, as paractin is a cox-2 inhibitor (anti-inflammatory). I also love joint force
    http://pescience.com/
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingStrongE View Post
    iForce Joint help is excellent. Cissus Quadrangularis one of the ingredients have been used to heal broken bones, help out with tendon,ligament problems. I always stayed away from those cortisone shots which they wanted to use on my AC Joint. Talk to your doctor about surgery options if it's needed.
    Appreciate the suggestion I have used a bottle of Joint Help found it moderately effective. I think Synvisc will be my next step but surgery might be necessary since it has not responded to more conservative treatments. It is by far the most frustrating injury I have ever dealt with, it is starting to effect my quality of life and my job is as a crossfit instructor which my injury has prevented my from working out like I am accustomed to.

    Any problems with increasing the dosage on Joint Force to maybe 3 servings a day? 2 helped somewhat but not an appreciable amount.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LivingStrongE View Post
    iForce Joint help is excellent. Cissus Quadrangularis one of the ingredients have been used to heal broken bones, help out with tendon,ligament problems. I always stayed away from those cortisone shots which they wanted to use on my AC Joint. Talk to your doctor about surgery options if it's needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by xhrr View Post
    Appreciate the suggestion I have used a bottle of Joint Help found it moderately effective. I think Synvisc will be my next step but surgery might be necessary since it has not responded to more conservative treatments. It is by far the most frustrating injury I have ever dealt with, it is starting to effect my quality of life and my job is as a crossfit instructor which my injury has prevented my from working out like I am accustomed to.

    Any problems with increasing the dosage on Joint Force to maybe 3 servings a day? 2 helped somewhat but not an appreciable amount.
    COX-2 inhibitors have the potential for serious side effects...probably best to stick to the recommended dose
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    COX-2 inhibitors have the potential for serious side effects...probably best to stick to the recommended dose
    fair enough I guess bulk Cissus would be easier to add. For the curiosity in me what side effects? Same as nsaids?
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhrr View Post
    fair enough I guess bulk Cissus would be easier to add. For the curiosity in me what side effects? Same as nsaids?
    Cardiovascular effects (PGI2 I believe). See vioxx
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Cardiovascular effects (PGI2 I believe). See vioxx
    Thanks buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhrr View Post
    Thanks buddy
    Hey man, sorry to hear about all the issues you've been having with that, it doesn't sound like any fun at all... Check out our Formutech Flexible joint formula, it's MSM, chondroitin, glucosamine, hyaluronic acid, and cissus:

    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/f...-capsules.html


    Just tried PMing you, but the site is being weird. So sorry if you got like 5 of the same message...
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    Flexible joint formula by Formutech is plain amazing.
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    I've tried cissus, msm, celadrin, hyaluronic acid, and glucosamine & chondroitin all on solo runs and I must say cissus is by far the best and glucosamine and chondroitin would be second but after a while they don't work anymore. Cissus for the win
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    I realize joint help has been recommended but do you ice religiously? also I have had great success with castor oil packs on the affected joints. it really helps draw out the inflammation and seems to lubricate the joints. for me when the **** gets tough I use the 3 pronged attack!
    joint help/ ice (15 on 15 off as often as possible) and castor oil packs.
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    Sorry to hear about that.

    I been doing some research for a similar( runners knee) but less chronic issue I'm dealing with and have heard a lot of positive review/testimonials on E-pharms joint force. I'm hoping to try it soon if a few other thing don't work for me. Good luck let us know if anything ends up helping.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhrr View Post
    Have a lot of problems with patellar tendonitis. First MRI just showed inflammation and now I'm getting a second after a cortisone shot did nothing. In the mean time what would you consider the best supplement for joint health, singular ingredient or comprehensive supplement? Looking to take something to help and be preventative in the future.

    I ice, use a rehband compression sleeve, foam roll, attend PT, and use ibuprofen at the moment as advised by the ortho but he had no idea on joint/tendon supplements and was wondering if any were worth while in some of the smarter individuals opinions. I have very limited knowledge in this area besides what the talking head of a doctor has told me for the last year while providing zero relief.

    I'm guessing my next step is synvisc or surgery in the near future after the MRI.
    I would play it safe and just stick with MSM ,choindroiton and glucosamine.Get them in bulk powder form or buy them at a 1/2 price sale at Rite Aid or CVS,get the store brands.That'll save you at least $30 a month.

    MSM at around 8 grams a day will probably do you the most good out of all 3.

    I'd also get some Carlson's fish oil,take a tablespoon 2x a day with meals..It's a bit expensive but worth it as fish oil oxidizes much too easily.

    Cissus has conflicting studies on it and it also lowers cortisol,which in itself can cause joint pain and discomfort.
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    The ultimate Joint/Tendon Stack would be Cissus, AX's Athletic Joint Repair, and Fishoil...but I would say the thing you need to do ASAP is seek out an ART(Active Release Therapy) practitioner, schedule 4 appointments, and go from there! Seriously, I thought I was gonna have to have surgery to repair a torn bicep tendon, nothing helped, then I was turned on to ART, after 5 sessions I was 100%, and Im still in disbelief of the magic that was done to my arm in such a short period of time!
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    Since there is a copious amount of products being pushed (in this thread and others in the Advanced Discussion sub-forum), can we look at the literature for specific compounds?

    Coop, are you fine with that?

    To begin, let's take a look at these compounds since most have been mentioned in above products:

    Cissus
    MSM
    Egg Shell Membrane
    UC-II
    Celadrin
    EvoMuse
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    I've already read some of Coops posts about Cissus, Id def love to hear his take on those last 4 ingredients!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    I would play it safe and just stick with MSM ,choindroiton and glucosamine.Get them in bulk powder form or buy them at a 1/2 price sale at Rite Aid or CVS,get the store brands.That'll save you at least $30 a month.

    MSM at around 8 grams a day will probably do you the most good out of all 3.

    I'd also get some Carlson's fish oil,take a tablespoon 2x a day with meals..It's a bit expensive but worth it as fish oil oxidizes much too easily.

    Cissus has conflicting studies on it and it also lowers cortisol,which in itself can cause joint pain and discomfort.
    The level that Cissus lowers cortisol is very minimal ~ not enough to cause joint pain

    Quote Originally Posted by domore View Post
    Since there is a copious amount of products being pushed (in this thread and others in the Advanced Discussion sub-forum), can we look at the literature for specific compounds?

    Coop, are you fine with that?

    To begin, let's take a look at these compounds since most have been mentioned in above products:

    Cissus
    MSM
    Egg Shell Membrane
    UC-II
    Celadrin
    I like eggshell membrane a lot ~Great ingredient
    Celadrin in the topical form is also great but not orally

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    Quote Originally Posted by NADDANME View Post
    Sorry to hear about that.

    I been doing some research for a similar( runners knee) but less chronic issue I'm dealing with and have heard a lot of positive review/testimonials on E-pharms joint force. I'm hoping to try it soon if a few other thing don't work for me. Good luck let us know if anything ends up helping.
    Just finished a bottle of JF I have used 2 so far to no avail. I had high hopes for it too, MRI follow up is Thursday so hopefully I'll have some answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    I would play it safe and just stick with MSM ,choindroiton and glucosamine.Get them in bulk powder form or buy them at a 1/2 price sale at Rite Aid or CVS,get the store brands.That'll save you at least $30 a month.

    MSM at around 8 grams a day will probably do you the most good out of all 3.

    I'd also get some Carlson's fish oil,take a tablespoon 2x a day with meals..It's a bit expensive but worth it as fish oil oxidizes much too easily.

    Cissus has conflicting studies on it and it also lowers cortisol,which in itself can cause joint pain and discomfort.
    I've heard of buying MSM in bulk and mega dosing. Is there any negative side effects to a high dosage of MSM not really something I have delved into?

    Quote Originally Posted by gymratluke View Post
    The ultimate Joint/Tendon Stack would be Cissus, AX's Athletic Joint Repair, and Fishoil...but I would say the thing you need to do ASAP is seek out an ART(Active Release Therapy) practitioner, schedule 4 appointments, and go from there! Seriously, I thought I was gonna have to have surgery to repair a torn bicep tendon, nothing helped, then I was turned on to ART, after 5 sessions I was 100%, and Im still in disbelief of the magic that was done to my arm in such a short period of time!
    Will have to look into this ART, appreciate the suggestion.
    Quote Originally Posted by gymratluke View Post
    I've already read some of Coops posts about Cissus, Id def love to hear his take on those last 4 ingredients!
    Quote Originally Posted by domore View Post
    Since there is a copious amount of products being pushed (in this thread and others in the Advanced Discussion sub-forum), can we look at the literature for specific compounds?

    Coop, are you fine with that?

    To begin, let's take a look at these compounds since most have been mentioned in above products:

    Cissus
    MSM
    Egg Shell Membrane
    UC-II
    Celadrin
    Yes and tell us more about the ingredient you claim to blow Cissus away that will be released in the near future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    I would play it safe and just stick with MSM ,choindroiton and glucosamine.Get them in bulk powder form or buy them at a 1/2 price sale at Rite Aid or CVS,get the store brands.That'll save you at least $30 a month.

    MSM at around 8 grams a day will probably do you the most good out of all 3.

    I'd also get some Carlson's fish oil,take a tablespoon 2x a day with meals..It's a bit expensive but worth it as fish oil oxidizes much too easily.

    Cissus has conflicting studies on it and it also lowers cortisol,which in itself can cause joint pain and discomfort.
    MSM needn't be dosed so high.

    Any triglyceride fish oil is protected from oxidation.

    Cissus does not have a single study showing it reduces cortisol. It is a glucocorticoid antagonist in bone tissue, which means that it reduces resorption and helps bones heal.

    Conversely, glucosamine and chondroitin have no good data demonstrating efficacy. This is the science section, meaning we are seeking to provide evidence-based suggestions, not the exact opposite.
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    Quote Originally Posted by domore View Post
    Since there is a copious amount of products being pushed (in this thread and others in the Advanced Discussion sub-forum), can we look at the literature for specific compounds?

    Coop, are you fine with that?

    To begin, let's take a look at these compounds since most have been mentioned in above products:

    Cissus
    MSM
    Egg Shell Membrane
    UC-II
    Celadrin
    Mike's post is spot on for celadrin and biovaflex. MSM has decent data too...it even reduces soreness considerably. Haven't looked much into UC-II.

    Even though this is the science section, I will recommend a product: Antaeus Achilles. One ingredient in particular has awesome data where longterm use is concerned
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    What about curcumin?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    What about curcumin?
    I wouldn't recommend it for joint issues. It's best for gut inflammation like IBS
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Mike's post is spot on for celadrin and biovaflex. MSM has decent data too...it even reduces soreness considerably. Haven't looked much into UC-II.

    Even though this is the science section, I will recommend a product: Antaeus Achilles. One ingredient in particular has awesome data where longterm use is concerned
    Which ingredient would that be??? Are you suggesting if someone wants a good Cissus product to go with this product in particular?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymratluke View Post
    Which ingredient would that be??? Are you suggesting if someone wants a good Cissus product to go with this product in particular?
    No, SNS or USPlabs cissus if cissus is what you want. Achilles has other unique tendon boosters. More of a tendon than joint supplement
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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post

    The level that Cissus lowers cortisol is very minimal ~ not enough to cause joint pain

    I like eggshell membrane a lot ~Great ingredient
    Celadrin in the topical form is also great but not orally
    Thanks, Mike.

    What is the composition of eggshell membrane?

    What data has shown that topical Celadrin is superior?

    (At work, so I don't have the time to research)

    If I remember correctly, you've used these two compounds previously.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    Mike's post is spot on for celadrin and biovaflex. MSM has decent data too...it even reduces soreness considerably. Haven't looked much into UC-II.

    Even though this is the science section, I will recommend a product: Antaeus Achilles. One ingredient in particular has awesome data where longterm use is concerned
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post

    No, SNS or USPlabs cissus if cissus is what you want. Achilles has other unique tendon boosters. More of a tendon than joint supplement
    What are the compounds' exclusivity to tendons?

    Let's take a look at the shoulder capsule and humeral articulation. For someone who experiences shoulder dislocations, the compounds in Achilles should be promising since the joint itself is protected from displacement by the tendons that surround it?

    Lastly, does any data show growth versus preventative properties (i.e., cissus, albeit in bones, versus glucosamine)?
    EvoMuse
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    .....
    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    The level that Cissus lowers cortisol is very minimal ~ not enough to cause joint pain
    What makes you say that?
    Cissus certainly lowered my corrosion levels enough to induce joint pain and lethargy.both of which are inducituve that it lowers corrosion significantly.

    ....
    I like eggshell membrane a lot ~Great ingredient
    Celadrin in the topical form is also great but not orally
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    .....
    1. What the hell is corrosion levels? 2. This is anecdotal feedback.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    .....
    Did you even read my post? Cissus doesn't reduce cortisol, lmfao.
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    To many deleted posts- I dont know who said what. Ha

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    iForce Joint Help has done more for my chronic elbow tendonitis than any other joint product on the market. Although for immediate relief I do like Joint Force, while Joint Help keeps it away. Fish Oil is a very nice addition as well for the anti-inflammatory effects.
    Last edited by laneanders; 08-19-2013 at 03:06 PM. Reason: Looked like posts were deleted, apparently I'm just crazy.
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    Perhaps I'm missing something, but as a mod in this section, I don't see a single deleted post in this thread
    http://pescience.com/
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhrr View Post
    1. What the hell is corrosion levels? 2. This is anecdotal feedback.
    Sorry,I was posting on my cell....auto select is a PITA.

    It should read read as cortisol and not corrosion.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Did you even read my post? Cissus doesn't reduce cortisol, lmfao.
    Yes,I read your post.

    Cissus does in fact lower cortisol levels.There have been lengthy threads on this over on mindandmuscle and I'm quite sure that doing a query on Pubmed would indicate my statement to be true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Perhaps I'm missing something, but as a mod in this section, I don't see a single deleted post in this thread
    Colibs post at 1:12pm and then your post that followed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    Sorry,I was posting on my cell....auto select is a PITA.

    It should read read as cortisol and not corrosion.



    Yes,I read your post.

    Cissus does in fact lower cortisol levels.There have been lengthy threads on this over on mindandmuscle and I'm quite sure that doing a query on Pubmed would indicate my statement to be true.
    This is laughable..you are making a statement and think we'll just leave it at that. "Cissus does lower cortisol, trust me, someone said it on a forum!" No evidence exists, and I've read everything there is to read about cissus. This is your chance to prove me wrong and post a study. *silence*
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    Regardless I wouldnt use Cissus for any other purpose than joint/tendon issues. If I need a cortisol product I will go with Reduce xt and if I need a fat burning product then I will choose a product which the primarily function is fat burning

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    MSM needn't be dosed so high.

    Any triglyceride fish oil is protected from oxidation.

    Cissus does not have a single study showing it reduces cortisol. It is a glucocorticoid antagonist in bone tissue, which means that it reduces resorption and helps bones heal.

    Conversely, glucosamine and chondroitin have no good data demonstrating efficacy. This is the science section, meaning we are seeking to provide evidence-based suggestions, not the exact opposite.
    If you look over the meta analysis studies on glocosamine and choindroiton they,overall,indicate that the two are of some benefit and show promise.In the same breath,quite a few studies on either compound showed negligible results although I belive there is enough evidence to warrant their usage in athletes.

    I did note that the original poster would see the most out of MSM as that is the big player of the 3.

    It has been a while since I've looked into the research on cissus but I strongly remember USPLabs hyping it us something that lowered cortisol,good for bones tec...not that USPLabs does not have a liberal take on promoting their line.....Groan.

    I did a search on Pubmed under and you are correct,I found nothing.My recollection was based on LLiorh's coments in this thread,which mirrors my experience with cissus.Call it n=1 (or n=2) but there is some interesting science driven discussion to be read here:

    http://mindandmuscle.net/forum/21763...abolc-syndrome
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Cissus does not have a single study showing it reduces cortisol. It is a glucocorticoid antagonist in bone tissue, which means that it reduces resorption and helps bones heal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    Sorry,I was posting on my cell....auto select is a PITA.

    It should read read as cortisol and not corrosion.



    Yes,I read your post.

    Cissus does in fact lower cortisol levels.There have been lengthy threads on this over on mindandmuscle and I'm quite sure that doing a query on Pubmed would indicate my statement to be true.
    I knew what you meant I was giving you a hard time but that is still just somebodies anecdotal feedback, he does not actually know if it lowered his cortisol levels as he is only speculating. Read the quoted post above yours.
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    As I have said,I have conceded that I was mistaken.

    I have posted a link to multiple studies on cissus.

    The one hit that I got off of Pubmed for cissus + cortisol was an abstract (with free full text) showing that cissus has some anti-histamine properties,which would not be good for the FED state as anti-histamines tend to increase hunger.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...laris+cortisol

    I saw no mention of cortisol anywhere in the full text so as I said in my last post,I have conceded your point and I was simply mistaken.



    I found your tone to be condescending and honestly,kind of dick-ish but my hat is off to you for your tenacity and willingness to participate in intelligent discussion.

    One last bit of "anecdotal feedback" ...hehehe....regarding MSM.Marc McDougal of FitPort,published authour who knows his stuff,has stated that higher dosages of MSM can be used while rehabbing from an injury and such dosages are at least quadruple the amounts usually used.As you also noted,it plays a big part in relieving soreness,which in turn will allow one to hasten recovery through being able to exercise (rehab,that is) more frequently.

    Cheers,mate.
  

  
 

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