Best Joint/Tendon Supplement on the market?
- 08-19-2013, 02:44 PM
To many deleted posts- I dont know who said what. Ha
- 08-19-2013, 02:58 PM
iForcehas done more for my chronic elbow tendonitis than any other joint product on the market. Although for immediate relief I do like , while Joint Help keeps it away. is a very nice addition as well for the anti-inflammatory effects.
Last edited by laneanders; 08-19-2013 at 03:06 PM. Reason: Looked like posts were deleted, apparently I'm just crazy.
- 08-19-2013, 03:01 PM
Perhaps I'm missing something, but as a mod in this section, I don't see a single deleted post in this threadhttp://pescience.com/
The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
08-19-2013, 03:32 PM
It should read read as cortisol and not corrosion.
Cissus does in fact lower cortisol levels.There have been lengthy threads on this over on mindandmuscle and I'm quite sure that doing a query on Pubmed would indicate my statement to be true.
08-19-2013, 03:37 PM
08-19-2013, 03:41 PM
The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
08-19-2013, 03:44 PM
Regardless I wouldnt use Cissus for any other purpose than joint/tendon issues. If I need a cortisol product I will go with Reduce xt and if I need a fat burning product then I will choose a product which the primarily function is fat burning
08-19-2013, 04:00 PM
I did note that the original poster would see the most out of MSM as that is the big player of the 3.
It has been a while since I've looked into the research on cissus but I strongly remember USPLabs hyping it us something that lowered cortisol,good for bones tec...not that USPLabs does not have a liberal take on promoting their line.....Groan.
I did a search on Pubmed under and you are correct,I found nothing.My recollection was based on LLiorh's coments in this thread,which mirrors my experience with cissus.Call it n=1 (or n=2) but there is some interesting science driven discussion to be read here:
08-19-2013, 04:00 PM
08-19-2013, 04:14 PM
As I have said,I have conceded that I was mistaken.
I have posted a link to multiple studies on cissus.
The one hit that I got off of Pubmed for cissus + cortisol was an abstract (with free full text) showing that cissus has some anti-histamine properties,which would not be good for the FED state as anti-histamines tend to increase hunger.
I saw no mention of cortisol anywhere in the full text so as I said in my last post,I have conceded your point and I was simply mistaken.
I found your tone to be condescending and honestly,kind of dick-ish but my hat is off to you for your tenacity and willingness to participate in intelligent discussion.
One last bit of "anecdotal feedback" ...hehehe....regarding MSM.Marc McDougal of FitPort,published authour who knows his stuff,has stated that higher dosages of MSM can be used while rehabbing from an injury and such dosages are at least quadruple the amounts usually used.As you also noted,it plays a big part in relieving soreness,which in turn will allow one to hasten recovery through being able to exercise (rehab,that is) more frequently.
08-20-2013, 09:22 AM
Is it possible to stimulate cartilage growth (for the lack of a better word)? Medical procedures and/or supplementation? Have any legitimate compounds shown this ability?
08-20-2013, 09:32 AM
Follow me on my log to life and lift: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/229476-mtinsideouts-log-life.html
08-20-2013, 03:37 PM
08-20-2013, 07:06 PM
About 6 years ago I had elbow tendonitis for about 9 months so I know your pain and frustration
08-21-2013, 08:26 PM
08-21-2013, 08:37 PM
Solgar® No 7
Solgar® No 7 is the next generation alternative after glucosamine that increases mobility, flexibility and range of motion in sensitive joints.*
The Solgar® No 7 Difference
- Advanced Bio-Active Nutrients
- Targeted Mediators Balance and Temper Joint Enzymes*
- Enables Joint’s Natural Ability to Flex and Cushion*
- Increases Mobility and Range of Motion*
- Shows Improvement in Joint Comfort within 7 Days*
**Daily Value (DV) not established
Serving Size: 1 Vegetable Capsule
Amount Per Serving %DV Vitamin C
(as Ester-C®, calcium ascorbate)
100 mg 167% 5-Loxin Advanced™
(Boswellia serrata Extract [resin])
100 mg ** Turmeric Root 4:1 Extract
(Curcuma longa) (equivalent to 200 mg of root)
50 mg ** UC-II® Standardized Cartilage
(providing 10 mg Undenatured Type II Collagen)
40 mg ** White Willow Bark 5:1 Extract
(Salix alba [bark]) (equivalent to 175 mg of bark)
35 mg ** Ginger Root 4:1 Extract
(Zingiber officinale) (equivalent to 140 mg of root)
35 mg ** Pepper Spice Complex
Cayenne Powder (Capsicum annuum [fruit]), Bioperine®
(Black Pepper Extract (Piper nigrum [fruit])
27 mg **
Vegetable Cellulose, Silica, Vegetable Magnesium Stearate.
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If you are pregnant, nursing, taking any medication or have a medical condition, please consult your healthcare practitioner before taking any dietary supplement. Avoid this product if you are allergic to aspirin. Discontinue use and consult your doctor if any adverse reactions occur. Not intended for use by persons under the age of 18. Keep out of reach of children. Store at room temperature. Do not use if outer bottle seal is missing or damaged.
*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.
"To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey
Brotato's bark brings shakes to the pups in the yard
10-10-2013, 10:15 AM
I put my daughter on Flexible Joint Formula after her second ACL surgery for several months straight. It made a big difference with the stiffness and soreness - especially the night and day after PT. The graft they used the second go round was the patellar tendon. She will from time to get flair ups with/or around her patellar so she starts taking Flexible again and it seems to clear things up.
10-10-2013, 10:19 AM
10-10-2013, 11:31 PM
I use NeoCell Type I and III collagen and it definitely makes a difference in both my joints and skin. You have to take it on an empty stomach though.
10-11-2013, 01:10 AM
10-11-2013, 02:31 PM
I'll pretend that wasn't directed at me...whippersnapper! My joints get a fair amount of abuse from 20 years of lifting and basically walking/hiking for a living. Here's some of the studies that turned me on to collagen. After a week or two of use, I noticed I was sleeping more comfortably without the usual aches and pains and with continued use I just feel less rickety.
10-12-2013, 08:16 PM
10-13-2013, 01:57 PM
10-15-2013, 12:52 AM
Thanks for posting that study.I was at CVS a couple days ago and happened upon a bottle of I picked up bulk powder Neo cell branded type 1 & 3 collagen for $17.
250+ grams seemed like a low enough price point to give it a shot for a few months,10 grams a day would be alright.I'm fairly sure that online bulk providers would have it cheaper.
On the other hand.....I just saw this.
I have only read the abstract of this study below,haven't looked at the full text yet,but it doesn't look promising for oral collagen supplementation via bovine sources to be of any real merit in humans.
10-15-2013, 12:37 PM
Great post though I am somewhat suspicious of this statement in the abstract;
"To investigate the metabolism of human femoral OA cartilage, explants were obtained during knee replacement surgery. Collagen synthesis of explants as modulated by 0-10 mg/ml collagen hydrolysates was determined using a novel dual radiolabeling procedure. Proteoglycans, NO, PGE(2), MMP-1, -3, -13, TIMP-1, collagen type II, and cell viability were determined in explant cultures."
Not having any familiarity with their "novel dual radio labeling procedure" is my first concern..ie is it an established method for measuring collagen synthesis or is this its trial run? Secondly, they don't outline how collagen was supplemented and what those protocols were so that makes me wonder how well they controlled for variables. From what I've read and done myself, taking the collagen on an empty stomach is critical to absorption/effectiveness.
Also, you can find NeoCell for about $10 a tub online...so at least it's a cheap experiment.
Like a lot of people on this site, I've learned to take both the science and the anecdotal reports with a grain of salt. For this supplement, there are some decent indications in the literature to support its use, but there is always negative data. On the anecdotal end, I like to treat large numbers of customer reviews as a potential data point. 1200+ reviews on one site alone averaging 4.5 out of 5 stars would seem to be relevant on some level.
IMO, a supplement of this nature is going to vary widely in its effectiveness in our particular demographic. You're either collagen deficient/old/rickety or you are not so that will have some bearing on it's effectiveness, perceived or otherwise.
10-22-2013, 09:06 PM
Late to the party. I am surprised that that xhrr didn't have any success with JointForce. I have used it with great success with similar issues. When you used it did you use it twice per day and did you wrap it with plastic as directed. That truly does help with its effectiveness.
We do have the science to back it up. The active ingredients in JointForce
Zingerone - A potent anti inflamatory Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor activa... [J Med Food. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI
Beta-Androstenetriol 3-Acetate (DHEA Metabolite
Antiglucocorticoid function of andr... [Psychoneuroendocrinology. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI
Topical effects of N-acetyl-L-hydroxyproline on ceramide synthesis and alleviation of pruritus
Adenosine, an endogenous anti-inflamma... [J Appl Physiol (1985). 1994] - PubMed - NCBI
Efficacy of methylsulfonylmethane ... [BMC Complement Altern Med. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI
Anti-inflammatory effects of exogenous uridine in an animal model of lung inflammation. - Abstract - Europe PubMed Central
I don't think you'll find a more potent stack of anti inflammatories in one product.
It offers immediate relief(the Menthol and Zingerone) as well as the ability to help heal the injury via its anti inflammatory action through continued use
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Better one ugly truth than a million pretty lies
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11-02-2013, 12:44 PM
Looks like I'm late to the party as well. I have a ton of experience on this topic. I had severe patellar tendonitis in college, which eventually led to a full tear. This first time I tore the tendon was playing football... then a year later after some intense rehab and getting back to 90% strength I tore it almost to the day playing basketball. Whatever you do... do not do any more cortisone injections. I had four over the course of two years, and I believe that this is what ultimately led to the first tear. None of the joint/tendon supplements listed above will do anything for tendonitis in your patella tendon, I know, I've used all of them. For while the only thing that would help were good old fashioned ice and rest. However, I have found a few things that have help me recover from both tears, and I'm back to about 95% capacity athletically. The first is platelet injections. They are about $500 per shot, but it's amazing the relief they can provide on your tendonitis. After my first shot I went from moderate/severe pain, to no pain whatsoever. You may only need one depending on how bad your knee currently is. The second are plasma injections. These are much more expensive (2k-3k) but have much longer lasting effects than the platelet injections. The great thing about both these options, is that you are using your own compounds from your body to heal... not some foreign concoction filtered in a lab. The only other option to achieve "actual" tendon regeneration is growth hormone. Not the oral growth hormone crap either, only the injectable will work. Other than that all these joint supplements do nothing for patellar tendonitis, they are meant to lubricate joints... not tendon repair. What you currently have are hundreds of little microtears in your tendon that cause the tendonitis. Rest and ice are first and foremost... but if you're stubborn like me please avoid the cortisone, and look into platelet, or plasma injection.
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