The Obesity Epidemic

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    The Obesity Epidemic


    I would like to discuss something with the great minds here within this section.

    Mods: this isnít about supplement science BUT can take scientific direction including studies etcÖ

    I was talking to Coop the other day about our passions in the healthcare field and I know that many of the people that frequent this section are in the same field. With that being said he got me all revved up on my passion for tackling obesity. Now, for me healthcare is my passion, I care immensely about the people in this world that are knowingly killing themselves. What I would like to do is open up some discussion on the views here of my fellow posters that are incredibly intelligent and also have an insurmountable appreciation and passion for health and fitness.

    Iím also going to be writing a paper on this so I may use some of your opinions or views as evidence, in which case, I would obviously ask for permission to do so.

    Here are some common thoughts that I frequently come across in regards to this subject depending on who I am talking to about it.

    1. Who cares let them die - Natural Selection.

    - While I have to admit at times you can become jaded and say if they donít care about themselves why should I? There are still those that do make radical changes for themselves and isnít just that one life worth it? Within the total care of that 1% does that not also span out to their direct family? Have you ever noticed that people that make such radical changes become even more fanatical about living a healthy lifestyle than people who were fit their whole lives?

    - On the other hand, look at the television show The Biggest Loser many of those
    contestants quickly slip back into the same routines as before the show.

    2. We have to limit their ability to kill themselves (Bloomberg).

    - This for me is an incredibly slippery slope. Is it ok to violate some civil liberties for the betterment of the lives of those that donít exactly care to better their current situations? (Please keep the conversation on track and try not to fall off into political views. Iím strictly talking about instilling laws that do not allow people to commit harm to themselves via unhealthy lifestyles i.e. diet, sedentary habits etcÖ)

    There are more I'm just strapped for time all of the sudden LOL

    Please feel free to elaborate on your ideas and thoughts as Iíd like to hopefully have quite a bit of discussion in the matter.

    What solutions are there and how would we go about making a change? Can we make a change? Can the healthcare system exclusively take a positive course of action to have a positive impact? Where does the change need to come from to have the most impact (think politics, schools, TV, healthcare providers, parentsÖ)?

    Iíll start the discussion off myself. The solution in my mind needs to be multifaceted utilizing not just one but multiple tools to effectively make a change. Not only is obesity a medical problem but it is also a psychological problem and within the psyche of the obese are a multitude of behavioral patterns that directly contribute back and forth to the obesity making it worse but then also having the psychological problems being worsened by the increase of weight. Thus, continuing to spiral on a downward slope with each causation increasing the other condition.

    Obesity and an unhealthy lifestyle is directly correlated with many significant medical conditions therefore if we were to be able to effectively shift the paradigm of Americans to not be so damn lazy we would be able to have an extremely vast, positive outcome on the health of many people. How would or could we go about that? In my opinion there is a way to tackle this and that is by as previously said utilizing multiple tools such as: medicine, public awareness (including children), diet consults, exercise regimens, follow ups, going over the psychological contributors to obesity and so on. However, how could all of this be done? I donít know about you guys but my personal physicianís assistant at my doctorís office usually spends a total of five minutes tops with me let alone a comprehensive evaluation going over such in depth measures.

    Anyways rant over. The floor is open for discussion and again mods (Josh, Coop) if this isnít an appropriate thread for this subforum my bad.
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    Interesting topic bro. My thoughts:


    I take a Bloomberg type approach. Look at harmful products like cigarettes. Cigarettes are taxed heavily and laws on smoking have stregnthened and tightened over the years. Now, the number of smokers compared to just 20 years ago has dramatically decreased. People look down on smoking, and society should look down at obesity.

    Fast food chains are becoming more and more prevalent, and unhealthy eating is a way of life now for many consumers. I like Bloomberg approach. I think setting food restrictions is the first step this country needs to implement to reverse the obesity trend.

    My .02
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    You make some good points. I think one thing that really needs I change no matter what if you want any type of impact has to do with poverty. We are one of the only backward countries in the world where our poor are over weight.

    It is much cheaper for a poor person to become fat and eat **** 24/7 than it is to eat fresh healthy meals and pay for a gym membership.

    I really want to make it clear that I am aware that you can't completely generalize as there are a million variables out there. I'm just picking one big one.
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    ^^

    thats because our welfare system is so frikkin stupid. families get upwards of $700/month in food stamps
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    Real quick

    1. To some extent yes. I believe we have a duty to educate but we cant really force anyone nor should we. If they refuse to listen or are simply uninterested/lazy then oh well.

    2. Kinda the same as above. This is Darwinian selection. Unless you are referring to euthanasia and in that case I dont see then as assisted suicides, I see them as ones freedom of choice about the manner of their imminent death.

    This is hardly a science based discussion but I have no problem leaving it here. Maybe the level of discourse will be able to remain civil and rational and not turn into a conspiracy rant like all the other threads on this kind of topic.

    P.S I am emailling you back tonight. Sorry I take so long in my responses
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    The problem with obesity is that there is no one cause; it is a muti-faceted issue that involves many aspects of life. It can be argued that Humans have an evolutionary-derived and genetically-primed need for regular physical activity and that the built environment we currently inhabit makes it easier for us to drive/ sit than it does for us to move. Some studies link sedentary behavior to obesity whereas others state that it is just a correlation, not causation.

    If you look at it from an adaption point of view; --> humans had adapted to movement and we are built to move (Active transport) whereas now we move a lot less and it is affecting us. Is this causation? Doubtful. Is it part of the puzzle? I would say yes. Then you have other things like prevalence of fast food; physiological and psychological confounders, and lack of education.

    People need education and to take control of their life but on top of that, people need to be brutally honest with people they love. Rather than say, "you are fine just the way you are", tell them that "they are big and need to deal with it". It might sound harsh, but them being aware of the implications of being overweight and obese will be far more rewarding to them.

    Unfortunately there is no one cause and therefore no one approach.
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    Fuking excellent point jiggz! I actually have a paper on a similar theory. Let me see if I can attach it
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Reminds me of the 'Thrifty Gene Hypothesis" in which it was speculated that the body had adapted to periods of starvation (assumingly rife in earlier eras) and had developed a propensity to store energy in preparation for times of starvation. But now in this 'land of plenty' the gene prepares the body for a period of starvation that never comes.

    Interesting hypothesis although IIFC the theory had collapsed and there was no real basis behind it.
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    All issues in life come back to ideals, ethics, order, conditioning, etc. All these values have been discussed, dissected, appreciated, what have you, by many philosophers from the beginning of time. Hence historical figures such as Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Machiavelli, Locke, Hobbes, to name a few popular individuals, are highly respected/regarded and their works will forever be relevant during human existence.

    The first issue in this world is that we are overpopulated; the infinite other issues follow from there.

    Back on topic, as Jiigzz mentioned above there are infinite factors at play; one being pride/attitude of obese individuals of their state. I don't even want to continue this can be discussed for years as many of the philosophers did in their time.

    For now all we can do is enjoy ourselves, history will repeat itself from diseases to revolutions/wars to natural disasters and so on. Our human race just follows a circle that leads nowhere, we are as useless as can be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy View Post

    For now all we can do is enjoy ourselves, history will repeat itself from diseases to revolutions/wars to natural disasters and so on. Our human race just follows a circle that leads nowhere, we are as useless as can be.
    That is a horrible outlook to have. If your purpose isnt to further understand and learn, to do, to help lessen the suffering of others... then what is it? To have fun? Are you 16?
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    It seems that I loosely have the same thoughts as quite a few people in this thread and thank you all for commenting.
    @Jiigzz we're pretty much saying the same things.

    A few additional points that I often think about. While obviously "natural selection" is at play. However, with the lack of bettering the situation aren't we only making it worse? Within the same thought, if we don't essentially do something the problem will only to continue to get worse as seen with the emerging "epidemic" now. Bad habits passed on through the generations which will eventually make us the minority. Have any of you seen Idiocracy?

    The problem isn't that we can't figure out what the problem is if that makes sense. We know what the problem is - laziness. Americans have come to be so accustomed to not having to exercise or even walk to do anything.

    What about mainstream media? Popular figures in the media are saying how proud they are to be bigger. Does fat Amy ring a bell for anyone? Obviously that influences many people to fall in line with that way of thinking instead of seeing it as a problem.

    I realize that we can't force people to better themselves against their will but is there no way to influence even a minority of people?

    How can you influence a large population to cook meals instead of relying on fast food? How can you get people to get outdoors and exercise?

    I had a pt one time that had just been admitted to help her lose weight because she was morbidly obese. When we were packing her up for transport she pulled out a king size snickers bar and proceeded to consume the whole thing in three bites. People like this may be so far gone they can't be helped but can they?

    What sort of actions can be taken to help with education? What can be done?

    As stated in the OP it has to be hit from every possible angle. Where do we start? Maybe its not a direct personal problem now but there is a good chance it soon will be.
    @JudoJosh Jiigzz made it somewhat scientific and don't worry about the email bro.
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    I woukd say the problem is not really laziness it is being uninformed combined with the idea that you can intuit knowledge and have a general mistrust in science. Being scientifically literate would do tons for society as a whole but here in the states you often run into this mindset which has a fear and distrust in science. We are being surpassed by most other prominent countries and it is not for a lack of will or want but a lack of knowledge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy View Post
    All issues in life come back to ideals, ethics, order, conditioning, etc. All these values have been discussed, dissected, appreciated, what have you, by many philosophers from the beginning of time. Hence historical figures such as Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Machiavelli, Locke, Hobbes, to name a few popular individuals, are highly respected/regarded and their works will forever be relevant during human existence.

    The first issue in this world is that we are overpopulated; the infinite other issues follow from there.

    Back on topic, as Jiigzz mentioned above there are infinite factors at play; one being pride/attitude of obese individuals of their state. I don't even want to continue this can be discussed for years as many of the philosophers did in their time.

    For now all we can do is enjoy ourselves, history will repeat itself from diseases to revolutions/wars to natural disasters and so on. Our human race just follows a circle that leads nowhere, we are as useless as can be.
    That's one way to look at it I suppose and you're entitled to that either way I appreciate the feedback. I prefer to think that we as people can have positive impacts on the lives of others and strive for that.

    I also choose to believe that humans can achieve many of great things and that our history has proven no less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I woukd say the problem is not really laziness it is being uninformed combined with the idea that you can intuit knowledge and have a general mistrust in science. Being scientifically literate would do tons for society as a whole but here in the states you often run into this mindset which has a fear and distrust in science. We are being surpassed by most other prominent countries and it is not for a lack of will or want but a lack of knowledge.
    So you think its more of an awareness thing? How would knowledge of science contribute to fix the problem? Would it have to be that in depth?

    I would have to argue your point though. How in this day in age can anyone not have been, through some outlet, educated on the negative health effects of obesity?

    In regards to education are we talking impoverished areas? Do schools not educate on health in lower class communities?

    In my opinion and what I've seen in patients is that you can outright tell people they are morbidly obese and that they are going to die if they don't change and they don't. I just can't fathom that they are unaware of their situation. I think they are aware but lack the drive to fix it. The courage to make a change.
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    Science is much more than knowledge. One doesnt need to understand the insulin pathway or cellular signaling and all that. Science is a way of thinking.Critical and skeptical thinking. People are skeptical of the wrong things, ask the wrong questions and mostly rely on what is intuitively obvious to them. It results in superstition and pseudoscience running rampant while medicine is largely disregarded. If more people just had a basic understanding of the scientific process and implemented it more often, we would be far better off, not only on the obesity front but many many more. Instead we belittle intelligence because it makes us feel inferior. We have 24hr news networks that dont reports news and instead tell us how we should feel about insignificant details and events.
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    The big problem is, is that we are entering a technological era; were the biggest and best things happen inside, not out. Look at a typical persons living area; nice wallpaper, a big flat screen TV, some form of entertainment station (DVD, Blue Ray, Xbox etc etc), nice couches and so on and so forth. We have spent years perfecting the inside of our houses and thus, are drawn to the comfort of them.

    If you can buy anything you want, form relationships (Facebook, AM and other online communities) within the comfort of your own house, the need to leave diminishes and thus getting people to move outdoors when everything they need is indoors is somewhat a hard task. This is a huge boundary.

    There are so many aspects and so many theories but unfortunately not very many answers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    That is a horrible outlook to have. If your purpose isnt to further understand and learn, to do, to help lessen the suffering of others... then what is it? To have fun? Are you 16?
    I am 22 and have been disciplined for most of my life by my parents and more importantly myself. After many years of study, work, training and alike I cannot seem to notice a difference from myself who has done so much over the years to an individual who slept, partied, had intercourse and basically lived day to day. This is merely a comparative statement as opposed to implying that life is best lived by partying, drugs, etc. I personally have no interest in any of these but it bewilders me when the latter individual is respected in the same light or even greater than the former in many circumstances. The past is also forgotten in many instances, everybody is forgiven but how about the just who have lived most of their lives being fair?

    This matter again is too philosophical to 'chat' about, Just vs Unjust who is the happier individual? This has been brought up many times in the past by philosophers and while the Just shall live the 'better' life it usually takes sacrifice and patience.

    As for me my outlook is not yet set in stone as I am still young; I am a lover of truth and reality, thus philosophy is very dear to me and with time I shall start writing in areas of interest. Through thought and discipline among other factors my intelligence is relatively high and have become a loner in a sense that I avoid 'small talk' confrontations. The completion of my BCom/BEco degree is near even though my interest in such a field is minimal, however it will provide a job opportunity for possible career paths. Not to forget my physical build is genuinely good, eventually it will be great. Essentially I have worked my butt off and will continue to do so.

    To lessen the suffering of others is again too much of a fantasy than a reality. Take charities as an example, if I pay $10 a child will have food for 10 days but what about the 11th day, will they starve? Now consider tradesmen are sent to the third world countries, they build them a town, houses, sustainable food sources and so on. Now they can survive on their own without any more interaction from me and you. It is all about building a foundation and then the rest will fall into place. However that is not what many want, as these people will start to grow and eventually retaliate, which is only one issue.

    Thus the end result is to enjoy life while we can with whom we love, what we love to do, where we love to go, and on. Otherwise, well there really is no otherwise; one can attempt for change in various aspects yet the majority is reluctant to do so. And hence progress is not made as progress is never wanted to be made, we all rather sit on our ass, drink, do drugs and have a good time. Actions speak louder than words, actions do speak louder than words. Oh they do.
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    i think one potential fix is to limit the things you can with food stamps to heatlhy choices, and no soda, candy, etc. i know there has been some talk of doing this. obviously there would be a huge backlash if this was attempted, so i don't know how realistic it is.
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    Subbed to read later. Something that I deal with daily in some of my work.
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    I have read that the processed junk foods in supermarkets and strategically placed at eye level. Also all the healthy stuff is in the outer sides of the store. The crap is located in the middle of the store. The processed carbs...All that stuff. Also processed carbohydrates are extremely inexpensive to produce. You should also look at the marketing for junk food and fast food...Its a huge business. So its definitely easy and cheap to be a fat ass.
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    You guys ever see the 06 movie Idiocracy?




    Give it a watch. It might be off topic but that's the movie that comes to mind when thinking about unhealthy obese people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I have read that the processed junk foods in supermarkets and strategically placed at eye level. Also all the healthy stuff is in the outer sides of the store. The crap is located in the middle of the store. The processed carbs...All that stuff. Also processed carbohydrates are extremely inexpensive to produce. You should also look at the marketing for junk food and fast food...Its a huge business. So its definitely easy and cheap to be a fat ass.
    Usually it is the supermarkets "best sellers" that are placed at eye level, or the items that attract the most attention for impulsive buys. In most typical situations (relevant to NZ), fruit and veges are at the entrance to the store and household "basics" (bread, milk, cheese etc.) are placed at the opposite ends of the store so you have to walk past 1000000 other items to get there.

    They don't really have an agenda to make you fat, but rather make you purchase more of the things you do not need.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Usually it is the supermarkets "best sellers" that are placed at eye level, or the items that attract the most attention for impulsive buys. In most typical situations (relevant to NZ), fruit and veges are at the entrance to the store and household "basics" (bread, milk, cheese etc.) are placed at the opposite ends of the store so you have to walk past 1000000 other items to get there.

    They don't really have an agenda to make you fat, but rather make you purchase more of the things you do not need.
    Right? Have you ever noticed that the amount of actual whole foods could easily fit into a convenience store, like a gas station convenience store? You have produce, meat, milk cheeses, eggs etc and then the remaining 24 aisles are processed garbage.

    Awareness definitely comes to mind but awareness on a different level. Not only do we need to educate on why it's important to be healthy and seek some form of exercise but we also need to make better food choices. Better food choices as in what we purchase and the companies we support. I've had discussions with land owners etc from different areas and asked them why they opt for grain fed rather than grass. Money was obviously the number one answer but then it seemed there was also a lack of demand.

    It's important to support companies that try and have natural lines. With increased demand companies and agriculture will follow suit.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I have read that the processed junk foods in supermarkets and strategically placed at eye level. Also all the healthy stuff is in the outer sides of the store. The crap is located in the middle of the store. The processed carbs...All that stuff. Also processed carbohydrates are extremely inexpensive to produce. You should also look at the marketing for junk food and fast food...Its a huge business. So its definitely easy and cheap to be a fat ass.
    So would mitigating advertisements for junk/fast food have a positive outcome in your opinion? That would be something that could be lobbied for in congress. Comparing obesity to cigarettes as someone did earlier might be a possible way to start having changes in what is allowed to be advertised?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    You guys ever see the 06 movie Idiocracy?




    Give it a watch. It might be off topic but that's the movie that comes to mind when thinking about unhealthy obese people.
    Yep and I said the same thing in one of my previous posts as well. It's dramatized obviously but unfortunately it may not be that far off. If those of us who care are the minority now what happens in 100 years???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Right? Have you ever noticed that the amount of actual whole foods could easily fit into a convenience store, like a gas station convenience store? You have produce, meat, milk cheeses, eggs etc and then the remaining 24 aisles are processed garbage.

    Awareness definitely comes to mind but awareness on a different level. Not only do we need to educate on why it's important to be healthy and seek some form of exercise but we also need to make better food choices. Better food choices as in what we purchase and the companies we support. I've had discussions with land owners etc from different areas and asked them why they opt for grain fed rather than grass. Money was obviously the number one answer but then it seemed there was also a lack of demand.
    If supermarkets had little demand for processed foods, they wouldn't stock it (unless suppliers have massive pull). In NZ, we have two major supermarket companies and because of the Duopoly, suppliers have little say in what goes on. Supermarkets here have so much power that they can dictate prices and other things quite easily. I don't know how relevant this is to the US though.

    There are huge political boundaries to taxing junk food/ processed food and often some products blur the distinction between what is considered 'healthy' and 'unhealthy'. Remember that health foods and unhealthy foods are dependent on the knowledge of the buyer (subjective rather than objective). For instance, White Rice vs. Brown Rice or distinction between Cereals.

    NZ debated on whether or not to increase taxes on Sugary drinks but Coke jumped up and down stating that there are no links between sugar and obesity (which is true) and that how could you tax Coke but not Orange Juice which are both comprised of sugar (again true).

    This is why awareness makes a much more valuable and powerful tool than trying to introduce political measures IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    If supermarkets had little demand for processed foods, they wouldn't stock it (unless suppliers have massive pull). In NZ, we have two major supermarket companies and because of the Duopoly, suppliers have little say in what goes on. Supermarkets here have so much power that they can dictate prices and other things quite easily. I don't know how relevant this is to the US though.

    There are huge political boundaries to taxing junk food/ processed food and often some products blur the distinction between what is considered 'healthy' and 'unhealthy'. Remember that health foods and unhealthy foods are dependent on the knowledge of the buyer (subjective rather than objective). For instance, White Rice vs. Brown Rice or distinction between Cereals.

    NZ debated on whether or not to increase taxes on Sugary drinks but Coke jumped up and down stating that there are no links between sugar and obesity (which is true) and that how could you tax Coke but not Orange Juice which are both comprised of sugar (again true).

    This is why awareness makes a much more valuable and powerful tool than trying to introduce political measures IMO.
    Awareness being the far more powerful tool I am in complete agreement with you. However, what happens when people don't care for awareness? I'm sure you are but are you familiar with Bloomberg's large soda ban?

    http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/20...d-study-obese/

    This was a result of the rising obesity problem. I find it incredibly hard to believe that people are unaware of how to live healthy lifestyles.
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    I believe as a society we have to make obesity and how it is viewed similar to cigarettes. Yes heavy taxation has played a roll in the decline of cigarettes and their use, but I believe their is a general belief among society as a whole that smoking cigarettes is socially gross and unacceptable.

    Cigarettes 15-20 years ago were commonplace and not frowned upon. Now when I see someone smoking I can't believe that someone actually still smokes in 2013. No one I know smokes and when we are out and see someone that does we all feel the same way about that person.

    My point being that until as a society we believe obesity to be "wrong" and just not what you do then it will continue.

    I think education, taxation on goods that are unhealthy, and a shift in how we as a society view obesity are all healthy steps to this epidemic.

    Anyways hope that makes sense I've spent 16hrs working today and should be sleeping. Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post

    Awareness being the far more powerful tool I am in complete agreement with you. However, what happens when people don't care for awareness? I'm sure you are but are you familiar with Bloomberg's large soda ban?

    http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/20...d-study-obese/

    This was a result of the rising obesity problem. I find it incredibly hard to believe that people are unaware of how to live healthy lifestyles.


    I don't think it's that people are unaware that it's not good for them but no one is there next to them saying "dude you're really going to consume 44oz of Mountain Dew? That's nasty."

    As a society we aren't frowning on people that make those decisions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Awareness being the far more powerful tool I am in complete agreement with you. However, what happens when people don't care for awareness? I'm sure you are but are you familiar with Bloomberg's large soda ban?

    http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/20...d-study-obese/

    This was a result of the rising obesity problem. I find it incredibly hard to believe that people are unaware of how to live healthy lifestyles.
    I like the idea of banning/ discontinuing the use of Supersize sodas; NZ follows the US in many respects but i'm glad they didn't follow suit in this regard.

    Workplaces also have a role to play to combat obesity. There are links between obesity and decreased productivity and increased strain on healthcare and also increases in absenteeism and presenteeism; if you can get people to be more active in the workplace (by way of encouraged physical activity breaks and making things less accessible (moving the printer further away etc.)) then you can help bring down obesity rates by this means alone.

    Such a complex topic lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post
    ^^

    thats because our welfare system is so frikkin stupid. families get upwards of $700/month in food stamps
    My friend gets 1000 in foodstamp a month and tries to sell what she can't use to my other friend.
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    From someone who use to be obese, I hate myself for not having enough sympathy or empathy towards them. Every time I get a little confidence, I get pushed back down and reminded that I once was fat and should remember how it feels. Maybe I don't feel bad for obese people because if I can do it so can they and feeling sorry will only give them an excuse to continue living like that. Some people change because they want to and some change because they're forced to. My friend is getting gastric bypass but never once attempted to work out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by puccah8808 View Post
    From someone who use to be obese, I hate myself for not having enough sympathy or empathy towards them. Every time I get a little confidence, I get pushed back down and reminded that I once was fat and should remember how it feels. Maybe I don't feel bad for obese people because if I can do it so can they and feeling sorry will only give them an excuse to continue living like that. Some people change because they want to and some change because they're forced to. My friend is getting gastric bypass but never once attempted to work out.
    I commend anyone who has gone through that struggle and admire the courage that it must have taken to get to where you are now. For a lot of people that I have trained, just getting into a gym or going to a gym can produce massive amounts of anxiety and negative feelings about oneself. Quite a few of them REFUSED to go there without me. So for them to be able to take the first step and continue with it says a lot about a person's character. One thing about what you just said though is if you or anyone else can do it, there is no reason that someone should have an excuse not to.
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    What do you guys think about an incentive based program say from health insurance? Lets say for example blue cross blue shield says if you lose the weight and keep it off and maintain a healthy lifestyle we will send you a "bonus check" every 6 months you pass a physical exam or health exam of some sort.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post
    What do you guys think about an incentive based program say from health insurance? Lets say for example blue cross blue shield says if you lose the weight and keep it off and maintain a healthy lifestyle we will send you a "bonus check" every 6 months you pass a physical exam or health exam of some sort.
    I thought there was going to be something similar. If you're overweight then your insurance goes up and if your a smoker and denies it, they won't cover you (major operation) because you lied on your yearly renewal saying you're healthy. I think it should be like life insurance, not everyone qualifies and if you lose more weight, your premium goes down.
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    Just to throw one idea out there. Sorry if it has been said, I didnt read all the posts.

    I once had an idea to combat people making themselves obese through fast food. One of the major problems for many people that ive spoken to is that eating healthy is often very expensive. For example where I live a freshly made chicken sandwhich with lettus, carrot, capsicum, cucumber and light mayo would cost $8-$12. Throw in a drink (water) and its $11-$15. A cheese burger form Mcdonalds is $2

    While im not getting bogged down in details, I believe that in order to encourage people to eat healthier, a levy could be placed on unhealthy fast food chains, making the food more expensive. At the same time the government could use these taxes to subsidize healthy fast food-thus making it more appealing to people.

    Working out how to make it work would be somewhat difficult-it would be hard from the government to reimburse single shops to the point where they could make their food significantly cheaper. Perhaps it would only work with healthy food chains, such as subway, where they would qualify for the grant to subsidize their healthy food range.
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    My problem with the "Let them die" approach is that they do care about themselves and want to lose weight. Every single obese person in the world wants to lose weight (except for those with psychological disorders). Much like quitting a drug (i.e. smoking), efforts to lose weight are typically unsustainable and short-lived. Why?

    Because obesity is a disease. Most people who become obese actually have very little excuse...the often cited "slow metabolism" is incredibly rare, and indeed, the #1 reason people get obese is overeating. That's inexcusable and something that needs to be addressed by society. But that's not the topic of this discussion.

    Once you are obese, you do need help. Obesity is co-morbid with other issues at rates of virtually 100%: insulin resistance and leptin resistance. Obesity is often due to a dysfunctional hunger system; that is, the people eat to satisfy the mesolimbic reward system rather than physiological hunger.

    So let's say you try to lose weight. With all your leptin resistance, it's tough for you to "feel full." Now start taking bodyfat out of the equation as you drop a few pounds. You now have leptin resistance (demonstrated to be almost irreversible) coupled with less leptin release. To make matters worse, you start hyper-secreting ghrelin (largely irreversible), with amplitudes hundreds of percent greater than normal people. Your body essentially thinks you are starving physiologically, and you perceive it as such. So now you take a pre-existent dysfunctional reward system (pleasure eating) and add in extremely powerful physiological hunger signaling, and suddenly you realize that it's not so easy to just "put down the fork." When you are this hungry, you can't think about anything else. You need to eat and end this starvation.

    But people have lives! They have jobs, responsibilities, etc. We're not all on "The Biggest Loser" where we can just say "Screw it, I'm just gonna focus on absolutely nothing but weight loss for the next _________ months." Obesity is often seen in poorer neighborhoods, where such an attention to weight loss is definitely out of the question...and access to filling food is minimal.

    Cliffs:

    -Obesity has several physiological, not psychological, factors that "lock you in" for life. The most significant of which is neuroendocrine signaling.
    -Gastric bypass surgeries have an exceptional track record for obesity recovery not because they reduce stomach size, but because they resection almost the entire ghrelin-secreting part of the stomach, reducing perceived hunger.
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    Darwin would not approve of this post

    Im not sure as to the extent of patient interaction you have but let me assure you, while most patients may say what they want, they hardly mean it.
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    What kills me is I don't often see coupons for meat, fruits or veggies rather mostly for pasta, chips, hamburger helper type things, soda, etc... And to add to what coop said in the poorer neighborhoods it is a lack of health knowledge from an early age that I believe sets them up for obesity later in life. How many moms send there kids to school with chips and soda or have a sh** selection of food in the cafeteria?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtinsideout View Post
    What kills me is I don't often see coupons for meat, fruits or veggies rather mostly for pasta, chips, hamburger helper type things, soda, etc... And to add to what coop said in the poorer neighborhoods it is a lack of health knowledge from an early edge that I believe sets them up for obesity later in life. How many moms send there kids to school with chips and soda or have a sh** selection of food in the cafeteria?
    Sucks when you're trying to stretch out your last $20 and you see someone with a cart full of junk food at the beginning of the month. (Not that I'd eat that stuff anyways)
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Darwin would not approve of this post

    Im not sure as to the extent of patient interaction you have but let me assure you, while most patients may say what they want, they hardly mean it.
    Their discipline is obviously lacking (that's how they got here in the first place), but if you take anyone and put them in an obese person's shoes, most will fail to lose weight. The small percent that succeeds are health concious folk like those who populate this forum...and let me assure you, this makes up virtually none of the patients I've seen
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