The Obesity Epidemic

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    The director of the program is actually a friend of my sister inlaw. I will see if I can get her contact info and forward it to you.
    You are so hot to me right now
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  2. Pants=off
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post

    Do you object to the recent classification of obesity by the AMA?

    The inner optimist in me is actually excited about it. With obesity classified as a disease it could result on an emphasis being placed on nutritional counseling, food availability, exercise prescription, etc moving to the forefront. If obesity is a disease than it is affecting more than a third of the population! I would like to think this will make its way into medical schools and the doctors of the future will be looking more into nutrition and exercise interventions. The hospital I work at recently bought a gym and opened up a physician referred exercise program. We actually have doctors now writing scripts for patients to exercise and insurance is covering personal trainer sessions. If this trend spreads and becomes popular it will be amazing IMO. We have a focus now on bringing produce into inner cities now. I drive through Camden, NJ or Philadelphia, PA which are both big cities that have poverty and limited nutrition options and more and more frequently I am seeing neighborhood gardens, food co-ops, farmers markets, etc all popping up. I see this classification as a way to bring these issues to the forefront and am not really too taken aback by it.

    Sadly, I realize what this classification will actually do is open the doors even more on gastric bypass and weight loss drugs but hey it doesn't have to right? We will see
    I ****ing hate it. The last thing people these days need is another excuse for something happening to them. My number one pet peeve is a lack of accountability. This will open the door for more to say that it's not their fault when obesity is a lifestyle choice. It can be difficult to unlearn habits, but that is not an excuse for being 30+% BF.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  4. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I ****ing hate it. The last thing people these days need is another excuse for something happening to them. My number one pet peeve is a lack of accountability. This will open the door for more to say that it's not their fault when obesity is a lifestyle choice. It can be difficult to unlearn habits, but that is not an excuse for being 30+% BF.
    lol Rodja only learning some techniques for passion down the proper channel one day may find difference in making..Passion, nothing wrong with that, using it for making a spark for others to thinking on the way you do is a fine dodgy line.
    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

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  5. It's important to note the social institutions and overall rhetoric of our society when it comes addressing obesity. Think of how many people here, including myself, are likely labeled by the general community as lacking in intelligence or character. Ironically, it's usually not acceptable to say similar things as blatantly about those who disregard their health.

    It's an irrationally accepted cultural habit if ours. The supported "you are beautiful no matter what." Kind of mentality that only sounds nice to those who don't want to think about it too much- and that's the problem.

    It's too blunt or aggressive to openly tell someone that they should do something about there health, and because of this politically correct sort of idea, it will always be ok to counter the common aggression this community seems to have with obesity with "but I'm comfortable with myself and that's all that matters... Blah blah blah"

    We need to take the responsibility upon ourselves to not be such insecure puss pads about how we deal with the topic. If our society made.a more conscious effort, or any effort at all, to begin to be open about how ugly the combination of sloth and gluttony really can be- ESPECIALLY in terms of ones health, I guarantee there would be a change.

    But instead nobody ever speaks up when they see a parent give their overweight child candy, we never ask someone we know why they are doing that to themselves and we never say that it doesn't matter if your "fine with it" because that's bull****, and deep down, everyone knows it.

    With honesty and realism comes advocacy and knowledge. If we continue to live in la la land where it's ok to be a fat **** but if someone is elite within fitness they are CLEARLY VAIN or INSECURE or a DBAG we will never see change.


    My 2 cents.

    Edit note: regarding the bad foods argument.. It's just a byproduct of our skewed perception on the limits of what is ok in regards to detrimental health. If we remove the supportive discourse in regards to the obese and unhealthy, we eliminate demand, and the propensity of supplying horrible quality foods goes away.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    If something is easier obtained through a pill or surgery then why put in the hard work?
    Putting in hard work would have to mean someone admitting to accountability. It's much easier to say "I have a condition" and continue eating raw cookie dough until you have diabetes that's covered under health insurance than admit you have a problem that is nobody else's fault.
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  7. now i'm craving some cookie dough ice cream. d'oh!!

  8. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    That's part of the equation, but CNS resistance is the other part. It's a two-hit
    Can you explain what you mean by CNS resistance?
    E-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Every now and then, there's too much paper and not enough practical. Is everyone predisposed to being an athlete, no. However, there are very few people that are going to be predisposed to being truly obese and definitely not ~30+% of the domestic population. As with nearly everything, it boils down to accountability and desire. Much like losing a significant amount of weight, adding doesn't happen overnight and I find it very, very difficult to have any sympathy for someone that reaches a certain level of BF because it was their choice.

    I came in here expecting a hard line against obesity being classified as a disease and found almost the opposite with "reasoning" as to how fault may not lie within the individual. I look at it much like making weight for a competition in which you have to drop 10+% of your relative weight. You chose to get that far above and it's going to take that much more effort to get to where you need to be. However, with enough sacrifice, effort, and determination, you'll make it.
    Not the intention I was making, nor was it Coops (if I read correctly); Getting obese is generally the fault of the individual, that so much they must understand but staying obese and losing weight once obese is influenced by a plethora of factors (which we were discussing). Lets head back 40 odd years ago and look at Obese statistics then; they knew much less than what we do now yet now we are fatter than ever. Are you saying that people 40+ years ago knew how to combat obesity in a more effective manner? Are you saying that we lack motivation now whereas 40+ years ago we were fully motivated?

    Unfortunately this is not the case. People are getting fatter because of the bigger picture problems and are staying fatter because they do not understand the physiological consequence of getting fat in the first place.

    I understand where you are coming from, but 30%+ of the population in NZ and the USA are deemed obese; can you honestly just say that it is up to them to fix that?
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    Are you saying that people 40+ years ago knew how to combat obesity in a more effective manner? Are you saying that we lack motivation now whereas 40+ years ago we were fully motivated?

    Unfortunately this is not the case. People are getting fatter because of the bigger picture problems and are staying fatter because they do not understand the physiological consequence of getting fat in the first place.

    I understand where you are coming from, but 30%+ of the population in NZ and the USA are deemed obese; can you honestly just say that it is up to them to fix that?
    The problem today is not lack of knowing the problems with obesity. How can someone not know that they are unhealthy? That thought is hard for me to grasp.

    You've touched on the problem perfectly in previous posts Jiigzz and unfortunately in general it all boils down to laziness. If you look at the cultural shifts from the industrial revolution jobs have went from those of a physical nature to the exact opposite. A large percentage of the population is much more sedentary in their professional lives. The problem with this is that they don't try to accommodate for the lack of physical exercise. ****, quite a few people don't want to even walk anywhere anymore.

    The problem at hand is the mindsets of today's people so how do we shift the cultural trend of convenience, technology, a pill for everything and encourage healthy and fit living? It has to be handled on all fronts. We're talking shifting the paradigm of large populations. In my mind it can be done through education like others have said but it has to be a coordinated effort.

    -Education of the youth to impact future generations

    -Returning physical education in elementary schools. Getting kids active again

    -Overcoming lack of exercise due to convenience factors such as transportation. We'll never get people to stop driving to work. I live an hour away from work lol wouldn't happen BUT I walk everywhere else, the grocery store, morning walks/runs to wake up etc

    -Helping to support companies that are bringing out healthier food choices. Showing an increase in demand. SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FARMERS MARKETS.

    -Healthcare professionals being proactive about helping their overweight patients turn it around by like Josh's hospital prescribing exercise instead of a pill offering healthy eating measures etc. Not only giving this as a route of treatment but also helping to instill upon them a sense of pride in their healthy living.

    -Politics; yes, this is controversial and I don't know the best measures to go about it but without consequences people aren't likely to change.

    There needs to be a movement with people like us at the forefront brainstorming and then taking action. Essentially that's what this thread is about. We're healthcare professionals, personal trainers, teachers, parents, family members, friends and so on. I don't know of any politicians on here, well at least any that would admit it lol but the basic underlying message here is movements have to start somewhere.
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    -Education of the youth to impact future generations-Returning physical education in elementary schools. Getting kids active again-Overcoming lack of exercise due to convenience factors such as transportation. We'll never get people to stop driving to work. I live an hour away from work lol wouldn't happen BUT I walk everywhere else, the grocery store, morning walks/runs to wake up etc-Helping to support companies that are bringing out healthier food choices. Showing an increase in demand. SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FARMERS MARKETS.-Healthcare professionals being proactive about helping their overweight patients turn it around by like Josh's hospital prescribing exercise instead of a pill offering healthy eating measures etc. Not only giving this as a route of treatment but also helping to instill upon them a sense of pride in their healthy living.-Politics; yes, this is controversial and I don't know the best measures to go about it but without consequences people aren't likely to change. There needs to be a movement with people like us at the forefront brainstorming and then taking action. Essentially that's what this thread is about
    Lol this is what I was saying in my posts.. but it doesn't quite boil down to laziness, it boils down to general discourse of american society that allows laziness in regards to health...Edit: ... which is likely perpetuated by lack of political interference in controlling corporatist efforts in maximizing profit and creating crap products that we all love and buy. Its the rampaging monster of broken capitalism that allows companies to afford lobbying and prevent and legislation akin to the actions of monsanto, perdue, tyson, cargill, adm, and more.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    The problem today is not lack of knowing the problems with obesity. How can someone not know that they are unhealthy? That thought is hard for me to grasp.

    You've touched on the problem perfectly in previous posts Jiigzz and unfortunately in general it all boils down to laziness. If you look at the cultural shifts from the industrial revolution jobs have went from those of a physical nature to the exact opposite. A large percentage of the population is much more sedentary in their professional lives. The problem with this is that they don't try to accommodate for the lack of physical exercise. ****, quite a few people don't want to even walk anywhere anymore.

    The problem at hand is the mindsets of today's people so how do we shift the cultural trend of convenience, technology, a pill for everything and encourage healthy and fit living? It has to be handled on all fronts. We're talking shifting the paradigm of large populations. In my mind it can be done through education like others have said but it has to be a coordinated effort.

    -Education of the youth to impact future generations

    -Returning physical education in elementary schools. Getting kids active again

    -Overcoming lack of exercise due to convenience factors such as transportation. We'll never get people to stop driving to work. I live an hour away from work lol wouldn't happen BUT I walk everywhere else, the grocery store, morning walks/runs to wake up etc

    -Helping to support companies that are bringing out healthier food choices. Showing an increase in demand. SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FARMERS MARKETS.

    -Healthcare professionals being proactive about helping their overweight patients turn it around by like Josh's hospital prescribing exercise instead of a pill offering healthy eating measures etc. Not only giving this as a route of treatment but also helping to instill upon them a sense of pride in their healthy living.

    -Politics; yes, this is controversial and I don't know the best measures to go about it but without consequences people aren't likely to change.

    There needs to be a movement with people like us at the forefront brainstorming and then taking action. Essentially that's what this thread is about. We're healthcare professionals, personal trainers, teachers, parents, family members, friends and so on. I don't know of any politicians on here, well at least any that would admit it lol but the basic underlying message here is movements have to start somewhere.
    Exactly. Laziness is a huge issue given that jobs have shifted from active to sedentary for the most part. When a person spends all day at a desk, commutes to and from work in traffic for 30 mins +, the last thing on the typical persons mind is exercise. Sitting all day is exhausting. It is a conscious effort to prevent this and become active.
    That is why i'm all for physical activity interventions in the workplace; make people move more because they are incapable of moving and motivating themselves themselves. My point is not to place the onus solely on them, but rather incorporate the workplace and other social dimensions to tackle the problem; after-all their lack of motivation and subsequent obesity is costing ME money (Healthcare is government funded). I would rather some of my money go into improving the workplace culture than be spent on some lazy person with no desire to workout.

    We know that obesity costs the government billions as a result of the cost of their healthcare; once the issues cause heart disease, diabetes, disability and illness (to the point of not be able to work); this is when their laziness ends up costing me money. My taxes pay for their laziness and to fix their problems (we have a system called ACC which pays for people who cant work due to ilness, disability etc. which is tax payer funded).

    These reasons are why I would rather not just place the onus on them and allow them to live as they are, as it ends up costing me money that could better be spent elsewhere.

    I know the US functions differently; but i'm speaking from the perspective I know.
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  13. How about we shift the topic a tad

    Do we even know the cause of obesity? Do we subscribe to the gluttony and sloth hypothesis?
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  14. In regards to the sloth hypothesis

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...0503#abstract0

    Measurements of TEE among Hadza hunter-gatherers challenge the view that Western lifestyles result in abnormally low energy expenditure, and that decreased energy expenditure is a primary cause of obesity in developed countries.
    This seems to fall in line with my understanding of how much energy expenditure actually plays into weight loss - see: How much of an impact does cardio and/or weightlifting have on weight loss?

    So is a lack of physical activity the cause for obesity?
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  15. I will tell you from talking to the wife who did day care work for years, a lot of kids who are "whiners" get fed excessively by their parents. I don't know how much that affects later years, but interesting idea none the less.
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    In regards to the sloth hypothesis

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...0503#abstract0

    This seems to fall in line with my understanding of how much energy expenditure actually plays into weight loss - see: How much of an impact does cardio and/or weightlifting have on weight loss?

    So is a lack of physical activity the cause for obesity?
    Exercise itself is only about ~5% of total daily energy expenditure (Exercise being planned workouts); NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis- everything from fidgeting, standing and moving etc.) contributes much more depending on level of activity. So weight lifting and cardio will play a very minor role independent of increasing NEAT.
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  17. I don't think anyone opposes the use of preventative medicine to prevent obesity. What we're discussing is what to do with the massive amount of the population that is obese

  18. slaughter them and eat their delicious fatty flesh?

  19. There is no one size fits all solution. There are just too many variables to just claim that everyone that is obese is just too lazy to exercise. Sure there may be some people like that but not everyone.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    There is no one size fits all solution. There are just too many variables to just claim that everyone that is obese is just too lazy to exercise. Sure there may be some people like that but not everyone.
    Precisely this. I'm guessing everyone has that friend/knows someone who can literally eat anything they want and not put on a pound. For every person in that situation we generally know someone who busts their ass constantly with mediocre results. Those predetermined genetic factors coupled with the lack of control we all have during our initial upbringing and it is definitely more complicated than "fat people are lazy and make bad decisions."

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    Exercise itself is only about ~5% of total daily energy expenditure (Exercise being planned workouts); NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis- everything from fidgeting, standing and moving etc.) contributes much more depending on level of activity. So weight lifting and cardio will play a very minor role independent of increasing NEAT.
    Uhm, average BMR of males, lets be nice and say its 3000 kcals. Your telling me exercise only burns 150 calories? Perhaps I'm not understanding, but in my opinion, exercise like resistance training burns about 400 calories, my intake is 3000 CUTTING and my BMR is usually around 32-3300 so that's like 12% of my BMRs energy...

    So in the conditions in the most favor of what your saying, exercise is about 15% of ones NEAT... Which to me, makes me think being active has a lot to do with it- let alone the metabolic effects likes protein synthesis, triggering hormone synthesis etc. increasing ones BMR by 15% a day is more effective then stacking ECA with Clen lol (10% + 3%)

    But like I said, if I misunderstood pls explain (srs)
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by AdonisBelt View Post
    Uhm, average BMR of males, lets be nice and say its 3000 kcals. Your telling me exercise only burns 150 calories? Perhaps I'm not understanding, but in my opinion, exercise like resistance training burns about 400 calories, my intake is 3000 CUTTING and my BMR is usually around 32-3300 so that's like 12% of my BMRs energy...

    So in the conditions in the most favor of what your saying, exercise is about 15% of ones NEAT... Which to me, makes me think being active has a lot to do with it- let alone the metabolic effects likes protein synthesis, triggering hormone synthesis etc. increasing ones BMR by 15% a day is more effective then stacking ECA with Clen lol (10% + 3%)

    But like I said, if I misunderstood pls explain (srs)
    For one, you are n=1. I know Olympic runners who burn quadruple + on this amount, again we are talking the majority, not the minority. When you consider population data, you must view it as a whole, not as if everyone replicates your energy expenditure. Energy expenditure including NEAT and Exercise can be as low as 15% (according to McArdle and Katch).

    secondly, TDEE of males is ~3000, their BMR isn't normally this high
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  23. I wish people read through the entire thread sometimes before they posted lol......

    30% of the population is obese according to BMI. How can we treat a "disease" if we can't actually measure it accurately?

    There is huge huge debate on if even obesity meets the criteria to be classified as a disease. Classifying it as such does allow for a lot more funding and research, but on the flip side most of that research will go into a pill that can be sold. Coincidence???

  24. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I don't think anyone opposes the use of preventative medicine to prevent obesity. What we're discussing is what to do with the massive amount of the population that is obese
    Answer:

    Economics.

  25. Regarding more physical activity in the work place: IIRC there are A LOT of companies in Japan that have mandatory calisthenics workouts before they begin work for the day..


    edit note: It's China, not Japan. But nonetheless this would be a step in the right direction..

    Beijing workers shape up for return of compulsory exercises | World news | theguardian.com
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