The Obesity Epidemic

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  1. From someone who use to be obese, I hate myself for not having enough sympathy or empathy towards them. Every time I get a little confidence, I get pushed back down and reminded that I once was fat and should remember how it feels. Maybe I don't feel bad for obese people because if I can do it so can they and feeling sorry will only give them an excuse to continue living like that. Some people change because they want to and some change because they're forced to. My friend is getting gastric bypass but never once attempted to work out.
    If I live every moment believing, then the chaos in my heart will be a beautiful thing.-
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by puccah8808 View Post
    From someone who use to be obese, I hate myself for not having enough sympathy or empathy towards them. Every time I get a little confidence, I get pushed back down and reminded that I once was fat and should remember how it feels. Maybe I don't feel bad for obese people because if I can do it so can they and feeling sorry will only give them an excuse to continue living like that. Some people change because they want to and some change because they're forced to. My friend is getting gastric bypass but never once attempted to work out.
    I commend anyone who has gone through that struggle and admire the courage that it must have taken to get to where you are now. For a lot of people that I have trained, just getting into a gym or going to a gym can produce massive amounts of anxiety and negative feelings about oneself. Quite a few of them REFUSED to go there without me. So for them to be able to take the first step and continue with it says a lot about a person's character. One thing about what you just said though is if you or anyone else can do it, there is no reason that someone should have an excuse not to.
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  3. What do you guys think about an incentive based program say from health insurance? Lets say for example blue cross blue shield says if you lose the weight and keep it off and maintain a healthy lifestyle we will send you a "bonus check" every 6 months you pass a physical exam or health exam of some sort.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by hardwork25 View Post
    What do you guys think about an incentive based program say from health insurance? Lets say for example blue cross blue shield says if you lose the weight and keep it off and maintain a healthy lifestyle we will send you a "bonus check" every 6 months you pass a physical exam or health exam of some sort.
    I thought there was going to be something similar. If you're overweight then your insurance goes up and if your a smoker and denies it, they won't cover you (major operation) because you lied on your yearly renewal saying you're healthy. I think it should be like life insurance, not everyone qualifies and if you lose more weight, your premium goes down.
    If I live every moment believing, then the chaos in my heart will be a beautiful thing.-
    I am in love, but not in love with someone or something, I am in love with my life. And for the first time, in a long time, everything is inspiring.-

  5. Just to throw one idea out there. Sorry if it has been said, I didnt read all the posts.

    I once had an idea to combat people making themselves obese through fast food. One of the major problems for many people that ive spoken to is that eating healthy is often very expensive. For example where I live a freshly made chicken sandwhich with lettus, carrot, capsicum, cucumber and light mayo would cost $8-$12. Throw in a drink (water) and its $11-$15. A cheese burger form Mcdonalds is $2

    While im not getting bogged down in details, I believe that in order to encourage people to eat healthier, a levy could be placed on unhealthy fast food chains, making the food more expensive. At the same time the government could use these taxes to subsidize healthy fast food-thus making it more appealing to people.

    Working out how to make it work would be somewhat difficult-it would be hard from the government to reimburse single shops to the point where they could make their food significantly cheaper. Perhaps it would only work with healthy food chains, such as subway, where they would qualify for the grant to subsidize their healthy food range.
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  6. My problem with the "Let them die" approach is that they do care about themselves and want to lose weight. Every single obese person in the world wants to lose weight (except for those with psychological disorders). Much like quitting a drug (i.e. smoking), efforts to lose weight are typically unsustainable and short-lived. Why?

    Because obesity is a disease. Most people who become obese actually have very little excuse...the often cited "slow metabolism" is incredibly rare, and indeed, the #1 reason people get obese is overeating. That's inexcusable and something that needs to be addressed by society. But that's not the topic of this discussion.

    Once you are obese, you do need help. Obesity is co-morbid with other issues at rates of virtually 100%: insulin resistance and leptin resistance. Obesity is often due to a dysfunctional hunger system; that is, the people eat to satisfy the mesolimbic reward system rather than physiological hunger.

    So let's say you try to lose weight. With all your leptin resistance, it's tough for you to "feel full." Now start taking bodyfat out of the equation as you drop a few pounds. You now have leptin resistance (demonstrated to be almost irreversible) coupled with less leptin release. To make matters worse, you start hyper-secreting ghrelin (largely irreversible), with amplitudes hundreds of percent greater than normal people. Your body essentially thinks you are starving physiologically, and you perceive it as such. So now you take a pre-existent dysfunctional reward system (pleasure eating) and add in extremely powerful physiological hunger signaling, and suddenly you realize that it's not so easy to just "put down the fork." When you are this hungry, you can't think about anything else. You need to eat and end this starvation.

    But people have lives! They have jobs, responsibilities, etc. We're not all on "The Biggest Loser" where we can just say "Screw it, I'm just gonna focus on absolutely nothing but weight loss for the next _________ months." Obesity is often seen in poorer neighborhoods, where such an attention to weight loss is definitely out of the question...and access to filling food is minimal.

    Cliffs:

    -Obesity has several physiological, not psychological, factors that "lock you in" for life. The most significant of which is neuroendocrine signaling.
    -Gastric bypass surgeries have an exceptional track record for obesity recovery not because they reduce stomach size, but because they resection almost the entire ghrelin-secreting part of the stomach, reducing perceived hunger.

  7. Darwin would not approve of this post

    Im not sure as to the extent of patient interaction you have but let me assure you, while most patients may say what they want, they hardly mean it.
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  8. What kills me is I don't often see coupons for meat, fruits or veggies rather mostly for pasta, chips, hamburger helper type things, soda, etc... And to add to what coop said in the poorer neighborhoods it is a lack of health knowledge from an early age that I believe sets them up for obesity later in life. How many moms send there kids to school with chips and soda or have a sh** selection of food in the cafeteria?
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by mtinsideout View Post
    What kills me is I don't often see coupons for meat, fruits or veggies rather mostly for pasta, chips, hamburger helper type things, soda, etc... And to add to what coop said in the poorer neighborhoods it is a lack of health knowledge from an early edge that I believe sets them up for obesity later in life. How many moms send there kids to school with chips and soda or have a sh** selection of food in the cafeteria?
    Sucks when you're trying to stretch out your last $20 and you see someone with a cart full of junk food at the beginning of the month. (Not that I'd eat that stuff anyways)
    If I live every moment believing, then the chaos in my heart will be a beautiful thing.-
    I am in love, but not in love with someone or something, I am in love with my life. And for the first time, in a long time, everything is inspiring.-

  10. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Darwin would not approve of this post

    Im not sure as to the extent of patient interaction you have but let me assure you, while most patients may say what they want, they hardly mean it.
    Their discipline is obviously lacking (that's how they got here in the first place), but if you take anyone and put them in an obese person's shoes, most will fail to lose weight. The small percent that succeeds are health concious folk like those who populate this forum...and let me assure you, this makes up virtually none of the patients I've seen

  11. I read most of the posts and lots of great ideas and thoughts.

    Ill try to offer another side as well since i didnt see any of the posts hit on this.

    I am in the military, Marine Corps specifically and most who know about the Marine Corps or know of others who have been in, know that we PT a pretty good amount. Ranging from cross fit workouts to running 5+ miles three times a week. We have weight and body composition standards that we must adhere to and physical fitness standards. If we do not adhere to these weight standards we get put on a weight control program.

    Since we have these standards, if they are not complied with, your career can be and will be affected. In my mind you would think this would be enough to ensure Marines would remain in good physical condition. Unfortunately this is not the case as many Marines remain out of shape.

    This seems to go hand in hand with the old saying, "You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink the water".

    While i think America does need to take necessary steps to try and work on the issue of obesity and help people lead healthier lives, it also requires leg work on behalf of the person themselves. This is a lot of times, where the problem lies.

    Like others have stated we live in a society where everyone is so used to comfort and lazy. Everyone wants a magic pill or potion that will do the trick. Well this obviously isnt the case. People must put in hard work and effort and they just arent accustomed to that.

    So while i agree with healthcare insurance providers providing incentives and food stamps only being for healthy foods or alternatives it still falls on the individual. Noone can make someone do something they dont want to do. Even if they do want to lose weight its a hard and long road for most and this in itself will deter a lot of people regardless of incentives provided.
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Their discipline is obviously lacking (that's how they got here in the first place), but if you take anyone and put them in an obese person's shoes, most will fail to lose weight. The small percent that succeeds are health concious folk like those who populate this forum...and let me assure you, this makes up virtually none of the patients I've seen
    Your outlook is admirable and I imagine that quality is going to make you an outstanding physician. I wise I could be that optimistic and compassionate but I guess 7 years in an emergency room has sucked all the empathy out of me. I am all for teaching and helping but I have absolutely no desire to interact with individuals who dont want to learn or refuse to take action and from my experience this makes up most of the patients I interact with on a daily basis in the ER.
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  13. The world def needs to limit if not out right get rid of all fast food chains. Also limiting the amount of processed foods. Money should be spent elsewhere such as on areas of growing fresh food and healthy living environments for our meat sources. It is possible to get this now but at a higher price. I believe people that dont care to take care of themselves should be made to. Their disregard to their own health most of the time lands them into getting medical and disability payments from our money. People need to be informed how heath is essential for life at younger age. Starting with what they eat in school. In the us many schools are packed with vending machines. The schools are paid from the state per child per for each meal which i believe i read was somewhere around $0.57/ child on average. Most states dont have a nutritional guideline but rather a guideline stating they must have a meat source, a veggie, and a fruit. All of which usually is processed or comes from a can. We pay more to feed convicts and prison than we do for children to eat in school. I dont blame the schools but rater the states you can only do so much with $0.57. I could go on and on but here i have broke down my basic thoughts on changing obesity. Looking forward to reading everyones views on this topic.

  14. For all those that think the state should limit or eliminate "X" from our diet (be it fast food, soda, or whatever) let me remind you what the FDAs position is on protein intake, fat intake and dietary cholesterol intake. This is not the states role nor should it be. The lack the agility to keep current and have too many compounding interest (specifically agriculture industry). Would you want a law that limited steak size? Egg sale? How about banning of butter and only allowing margarine?

    I know it sounds good (ban mcdonalds or limit soda) but these actions dont even compare to the effectiveness of behavioral modification and the key to this is having an educated and scientifically literate society. You want people to make the conscious decision to reach for broccoli over the fritos, not have them reach for broccoli because fritos arent an option.
    PESCIENCE.COM

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  15. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I guess 7 years in an emergency room has sucked all the empathy out of me..
    I am sorry this has happened for you Josh and I wish it was not happening especially if for the beginning it was there and now gone...especially too if for you are enthusiastic for helping with much empathy for others with it now all sucked away. It is something one of the very important things as human beings it is to hold to.
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    For all those that think the state should limit or eliminate "X" from our diet (be it fast food, soda, or whatever) let me remind you what the FDAs position is on protein intake, fat intake and dietary cholesterol intake. This is not the states role nor should it be. The lack the agility to keep current and have too many compounding interest (specifically agriculture industry). Would you want a law that limited steak size? Egg sale? How about banning of butter and only allowing margarine?
    What would eliminating unnecessary foods and empty calories have to do with restricting portion sizes for good foods? Nothing is wrong with a good burger but like any product if people cant use it responsibly they shouldn't have the option to use it.

  17. I dont think banning mcdonalds or any of the fast food chains is going to help solve this issue. On top of that i will indulge at times at some of these places and dont want that choice taken away.

    Where there is a will there is a way, so even if you ban mcdonalds or any other fast food chain, people will still find ways to push themselves into obesity or sustain it.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT View Post
    I dont think banning mcdonalds or any of the fast food chains is going to help solve this issue. On top of that i will indulge at times at some of these places and dont want that choice taken away.

    Where there is a will there is a way, so even if you ban mcdonalds or any other fast food chain, people will still find ways to push themselves into obesity or sustain it.
    I agree, I also like to indulge in some taco bell or white castle from time to time. I was watching a documentary on some guy who was eating healthy stuff but just way to much of it lol. He ate like 6 cans of tuna and 12 apples in one sitting as a regular meal without any issue and I see that as pretty healthful food just not in that quantity.
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  19. The mcdouble is the most bountiful and nutritious food in human history

    http://m.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/o...ZJ50x1KMCyGfTJ

    Are you sure you want others making the decision as to what is or isnt healthy for you?
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    The mcdouble is the most bountiful and nutritious food in human history

    http://m.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/o...ZJ50x1KMCyGfTJ

    Are you sure you want others making the decision as to what is or isnt healthy for you?
    Wow! Crazy! I've never had one..
    If I live every moment believing, then the chaos in my heart will be a beautiful thing.-
    I am in love, but not in love with someone or something, I am in love with my life. And for the first time, in a long time, everything is inspiring.-

  21. For people like us that do eat healthy regularly going to a fast food joint occasionally is fine. My point being these places are adding to the problem of obesity which is the topic not whether fit and healthy people enjoy it. But i agree i personally would not like to see them go away but im trying to look at it from the other side. They make it to easy for someone to just stop and get fast food with a mcdonalds or wendys on every corner apposed going home and cooking a healthy meal. In the stone age food was scares and when the human body has more then in needs its told to put on fat incase of famine. The food that was ate was high in nutrition and low in calories. The problem today is our food such as fast food is low in nutrition and high in calories. People eat and eat but unlike then the famine never comes.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Your outlook is admirable and I imagine that quality is going to make you an outstanding physician. I wise I could be that optimistic and compassionate but I guess 7 years in an emergency room has sucked all the empathy out of me. I am all for teaching and helping but I have absolutely no desire to interact with individuals who dont want to learn or refuse to take action and from my experience this makes up most of the patients I interact with on a daily basis in the ER.
    It's easy to become jaded in the emergency room for sure. Unfortunately, you see the same people that continually make the same mistakes night after night.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I know it sounds good (ban mcdonalds or limit soda) but these actions dont even compare to the effectiveness of behavioral modification and the key to this is having an educated and scientifically literate society. You want people to make the conscious decision to reach for broccoli over the fritos, not have them reach for broccoli because fritos arent an option.
    Definitely but what are some actual viable ways to have an educated and scientifically literate society? Ideally that would be best no doubt but the logistics seem to make it not very realistic. Not only is there resistance trying to educate people on healthy living but could you imagine the resistance from people when you try and force critical and objective thinking on them? This would boil down to the very same reason your empathy, after being in the ER for 7 years has gone down - people don't give a ****.

    Using politics for obesity control measures is a last resort as seen with Bloomberg in NY. Obesity finally reached a point that some sort of law had to be initiated to slow the rate of people killing themselves. Well, since it hasn't been passed and probably won't, someone needed to attempt to do something. So while it may be the less favorable way to make an impact it may also be the most viable. Although, like you said we don't want the government controlling what we eat.

    I'm not at all for big government or government having any involvement in our day-to-day lives but the problem doesn't seem to be fixable when left up to the individuals themselves. It will eventually worsen and when it does the obese will not only be affecting themselves but the healthcare system as a whole. When this happens everyone will be affected to some degree. Maybe then people will be more apt to try and make a change.
    The Physique Biochemist
    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  23. Government intervention may be needed, but I don't believe it comes in the form of restricting or eliminating foods; it may perhaps come from reducing accessibility (we don't need 100+ McD stores in a 10 block radius). I like the idea of taxing certain foods and placing levies on others however this is open to interpretation. In our current society, fats would get hit the hardest which is not what you want. Also, where would the taxation end? Would it involve all fast food? Sushi and Salads included? Or would it just target foods the FDA considers to be the problem? i.e. McDs or B.K? Would this tax also stem to burger buns and meat patties available in supermarkets?

    The problem with this kind of tax is that it hurts the very people it is trying to protect. For instance, if a sandwich costs $6 to make and a cheeseburger costs $2 and you taxed the cheeseburger +20% and used that to reduce the tax on the Sandwich by -20% then you end up with a cheeseburger costing $2.40 and a sandwich costing 4.80. This still makes the cheeseburger a cheaper option but will just hurt the people who still cannot afford the more expensive food in the pocket. It will essentially just become a 20% food increase for them.

    Again, the issue isn't simply the prevalence of fast food joints. NZ has much less Mcd's or other fast food outlets than the US per capita, however the 2nd highest obesity rates. We have banned Ronald MCDonald from advertising on TV and fast food is no longer advertised during childrens TV watching hours (unless it is advertising McD's fruit bags and Salads) yet still we continue to get fat. Malls now have more "healthier" options and tend to have only 1 fast food chain, yet people still opt for fast food over the healthier options; why is that?

    I believe the issue stems far beyond simply 'overeating' but rather encompasses our current lifestyles. It involves societal, political, nutritional and our workplaces and preferred modes of transport.
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  24. PESCIENCE.COM

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  25. I saw that man... boooooo!!!
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    Biochemistry Major
    Your Physique AND Credentials Should Back Up Your Position

  26. I had a feeling that would happen; people dislike it when they feel like decisions are being made for them, even if they are in their best interest.

    NZ is currently (I heard it today on the radio) trying to introduce a "bad fat" tax which I will place a submission against it lol.
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  27. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    This turns my stomach. I hate seeing people drink super size energy drinks or tons of sodas a day.
    If I live every moment believing, then the chaos in my heart will be a beautiful thing.-
    I am in love, but not in love with someone or something, I am in love with my life. And for the first time, in a long time, everything is inspiring.-

  28. I do remember when I was young, early 80's and they didn't have such huge portions at restaurants. What was normal back then would be considered a "child size" portion today or be on the kids menus of today.

  29. I've got to tell you guys what disgusts me the most. Those "reality" shows based on how much some fat ass can stuff down their gullet. People try to call "competitive eating" a sport when all it is gluttony. People sit there and cheer for these fatties. It's just nasty.
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