Phosphatidic acid for strength and size

Page 1 of 7 1236 ... Last
  1. Senior Member
    ZiR RED's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,529
    Rep Power
    297849
    Level
    43
    Lv. Percent
    42.17%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Phosphatidic acid for strength and size


    Efficacy of phosphatidic acid ingestion on lean body mass, muscle thickness and strength gains in resistance-trained men.

    Hoffman JR, Stout JR, Williams DR, Wells AJ, Fragala MS, Mangine GT, Gonzalez AM, Emerson NS, McCormack WP, Scanlon TC, Purpura M, Jaeger R.
    Abstract

    ABSTRACT:

    BACKGROUND: Phosphatidic acid (PA) has been reported to activate the mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) signaling pathway and is thought to enhance the anabolic effects of resistance training. The purpose of this pilot study was to examine if oral phosphatidic acid administration can enhance strength, muscle thickness and lean tissue accruement during an 8-week resistance training program.
    METHODS:

    Sixteen resistance-trained men were randomly assigned to a group that either consumed 750 mg of PA (n = 7, 23.1 +/- 4.4 y; 176.7 +/- 6.7 cm; 86.5 +/- 21.2 kg) or a placebo (PL, n = 9, 22.5 +/- 2.0 y; 179.8 +/- 5.4 cm; 89.4 +/- 13.6 kg) group. During each testing session subjects were assessed for strength (one repetition maximum [1-RM] bench press and squat) and body composition. Muscle thickness and pennation angle were also measured in the vastus lateralis of the subject's dominant leg.
    RESULTS:

    Subjects ingesting PA demonstrated a 12.7% increase in squat strength and a 2.6% increase in LBM, while subjects consuming PL showed a 9.3% improvement in squat strength and a 0.1% change in LBM. Although parametric analysis was unable to demonstrate significant differences, magnitude based inferences indicated that the Delta change in 1-RM squat showed a likely benefit from PA on increasing lower body strength and a very likely benefit for increasing lean body mass (LBM).
    CONCLUSIONS:

    Results of this study suggest that a combination of a daily 750 mg PA ingestion, combined with a 4-day per week resistance training program for 8-weeks appears to have a likely benefit on strength improvement, and a very likely benefit on lean tissue accruement in young, resistance trained individuals
    I haven't looked into the mechanisms yet. Though I am curious.

  2. On my grind
    3clipseGT's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  182 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    9,995
    Rep Power
    1142345
    Level
    70
    Lv. Percent
    24.79%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Very interesting ZR.
    E-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns
  3. New Member
    rambofireball's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    289
    Rep Power
    12240
    Level
    15
    Lv. Percent
    13.38%

    260% increase in mass gains? Count me in. I'll have to research this later, this the only study you know of?
    My parents created my body, in which I create my mind. I will honor them, by developing both to their utmost potential.
    •   
       

  4. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,223
    Rep Power
    963204
    Level
    92
    Lv. Percent
    36.56%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by rambofireball View Post
    260% increase in mass gains? Count me in. I'll have to research this later, this the only study you know of?
    2.6%.

    FT:
    http://www.jissn.com/content/pdf/1550-2783-9-47.pdf
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  5. New Member
    rambofireball's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    289
    Rep Power
    12240
    Level
    15
    Lv. Percent
    13.38%

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    The controls had a 0.1% increase over the course of the study, the PA group had a 2.6% increase. At face value that would lead me to believe the PA group had a 260% increase in mass accrual than the control, no?
    My parents created my body, in which I create my mind. I will honor them, by developing both to their utmost potential.
  6. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,223
    Rep Power
    963204
    Level
    92
    Lv. Percent
    36.56%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by rambofireball View Post
    The controls had a 0.1% increase over the course of the study, the PA group had a 2.6% increase. At face value that would lead me to believe the PA group had a 260% increase in mass accrual than the control, no?
    That would be 2600% more than control (2.6/.1).

    At first, I was curious as to why it seemed to work so much better for squat strength than bench strength, but I figured it out once I looked at the training template: there's barely any lat training and it's so late in the session that the intensity would not be there. Plus, they only used cable-based lifts instead of free-weights and/or BW.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  7. New Member
    rambofireball's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    289
    Rep Power
    12240
    Level
    15
    Lv. Percent
    13.38%

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    That would be 2600% more than control (2.6/.1).

    At first, I was curious as to why it seemed to work so much better for squat strength than bench strength, but I figured it out once I looked at the training template: there's barely any lat training and it's so late in the session that the intensity would not be there. Plus, they only used cable-based lifts instead of free-weights and/or BW.
    Lol, I just realized this and was about to post it myself. 26x=2600%, not 260%, My bad.

    And, I think you may have misread about the exercises used in the study, according to this table free weights and bodweight were used.

    Table 2 Eight-Week Resistance Training Protocol
    Monday/Thursday Tuesday/Friday
    Exercise Sets/Reps (RM) Exercise Sets/Reps (RM)
    Bench Press* 1,4 x 10 – 12 Squats* 1,4 x 10 – 12
    Incline DB Press 3 x 10 - 12 Lunge/Front squat 3 x 10 - 12
    Seated Shoulder Press* 1,4 x 10 – 12 Leg Curl 3 x 10 - 12
    Upright rows 3 x 10 - 12 Knee Extension 3 x 10 - 12
    Lateral raises 3 x 10 - 12 Calf Raises 3 x 10 - 12
    Shrugs 3 x 10 - 12 Lat Pulldown 4 x 10 - 12
    Triceps pushdown 3 x 10 - 12 Seated Row 4 x 10 - 12
    Triceps extension 3 x 10 - 12 EZ Bar Curl 3 x 10 - 12
    Situps 3 x 25 Dumbbell Curls 3 x 10 - 12
    Situps 3 x 25
    My parents created my body, in which I create my mind. I will honor them, by developing both to their utmost potential.
  8. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,223
    Rep Power
    963204
    Level
    92
    Lv. Percent
    36.56%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by rambofireball View Post
    Lol, I just realized this and was about to post it myself. 26x=2600%, not 260%, My bad.

    And, I think you may have misread about the exercises used in the study, according to this table free weights and bodweight were used.

    Table 2 Eight-Week Resistance Training Protocol
    Monday/Thursday Tuesday/Friday
    Exercise Sets/Reps (RM) Exercise Sets/Reps (RM)
    Bench Press* 1,4 x 10 – 12 Squats* 1,4 x 10 – 12
    Incline DB Press 3 x 10 - 12 Lunge/Front squat 3 x 10 - 12
    Seated Shoulder Press* 1,4 x 10 – 12 Leg Curl 3 x 10 - 12
    Upright rows 3 x 10 - 12 Knee Extension 3 x 10 - 12
    Lateral raises 3 x 10 - 12 Calf Raises 3 x 10 - 12
    Shrugs 3 x 10 - 12 Lat Pulldown 4 x 10 - 12
    Triceps pushdown 3 x 10 - 12 Seated Row 4 x 10 - 12
    Triceps extension 3 x 10 - 12 EZ Bar Curl 3 x 10 - 12
    Situps 3 x 25 Dumbbell Curls 3 x 10 - 12
    Situps 3 x 25
    I was speaking specifically about the lat training (or lack thereof).
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  9. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,531
    Rep Power
    6135551
    Level
    96
    Lv. Percent
    75.48%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by rambofireball View Post
    The controls had a 0.1% increase over the course of the study, the PA group had a 2.6% increase. At face value that would lead me to believe the PA group had a 260% increase in mass accrual than the control, no?
    Not a good comparison. A 0.1% increase in LBM over 8 weeks is pathetic.
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
  10. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,531
    Rep Power
    6135551
    Level
    96
    Lv. Percent
    75.48%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Btw, the whole phenomenon of improved squat/lower body strength vs bench/upper body strength is also observed with betaine anhydrous. I wonder if these compounds have an increased propensity for delivery/storage in tissues of the lower body.
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
  11. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,531
    Rep Power
    6135551
    Level
    96
    Lv. Percent
    75.48%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Goddamn it, the study had competing interests. This may very well mean nothing at all, but still...I thought ergogenic aids were finally getting some unbiased love!
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
  12. Pro Virili Parte
    JudoJosh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Age
    29
    Posts
    8,920
    Rep Power
    2465729
    Level
    79
    Lv. Percent
    61.98%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Goddamn it, the study had competing interests. This may very well mean nothing at all, but still...I thought ergogenic aids were finally getting some unbiased love!
    http://www.google.com/patents/US20120141448

    Not sure how much of an impact they had on it though. It still looks like there still is some ergogenic potential for it IMO
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
  13. New Member
    rambofireball's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    289
    Rep Power
    12240
    Level
    15
    Lv. Percent
    13.38%

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I was speaking specifically about the lat training (or lack thereof).
    Yeah, that does seem like some bad study design to have one of the main markers of efficacy be placed on something which is not effectively controlled for.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Not a good comparison. A 0.1% increase in LBM over 8 weeks is pathetic.
    I agree, it's nothing to boast about, but isn't the fact that the PA group followed the same program and had 26 times the growth an indication of it's effectiveness? (Not considering the possibility of bias/poor study design)
    My parents created my body, in which I create my mind. I will honor them, by developing both to their utmost potential.
  14. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,531
    Rep Power
    6135551
    Level
    96
    Lv. Percent
    75.48%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by rambofireball View Post
    I agree, it's nothing to boast about, but isn't the fact that the PA group followed the same program and had 26 times the growth an indication of it's effectiveness? (Not considering the possibility of bias/poor study design)
    In my opinion, no. Gaining 0.1% LBM in 8 weeks is pretty anomalous. For an 180 lb male at 15% BF, that means he would gain 0.15 lbs of LBM in 2 months (or less than 1 lbm of LBM gain in a YEAR). Idk what they fed the control group, but something they were doing was wrong.
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
  15. New Member
    rambofireball's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    289
    Rep Power
    12240
    Level
    15
    Lv. Percent
    13.38%

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    In my opinion, no. Gaining 0.1% LBM in 8 weeks is pretty anomalous. For an 180 lb male at 15% BF, that means he would gain 0.15 lbs of LBM in 2 months (or less than 1 lbm of LBM gain in a YEAR). Idk what they fed the control group, but something they were doing was wrong.
    Yeah that really doesn't seem right. You thinking it's foul play?
    My parents created my body, in which I create my mind. I will honor them, by developing both to their utmost potential.
  16. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,531
    Rep Power
    6135551
    Level
    96
    Lv. Percent
    75.48%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by rambofireball View Post
    Yeah that really doesn't seem right. You thinking it's foul play?
    Highly doubtful. JISSN isn't a joke of a journal either (at least, relative to some other journals that publish supplement studies). That said, I'd usually chalk it up to genetics and sample size, but 0.1% is too low even for someone with **** genetics. And there weren't significant changes in bodyweight x group x time, so it looks like the placebo group basically just got fat. I really don't have a good answer for you. A 2.6% increase of LBM in 8 weeks is pretty hefty though.
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
  17. New Member
    rambofireball's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    289
    Rep Power
    12240
    Level
    15
    Lv. Percent
    13.38%

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Highly doubtful. JISSN isn't a joke of a journal either (at least, relative to some other journals that publish supplement studies). That said, I'd usually chalk it up to genetics and sample size, but 0.1% is too low even for someone with **** genetics. And there weren't significant changes in bodyweight x group x time, so it looks like the placebo group basically just got fat. I really don't have a good answer for you. A 2.6% increase of LBM in 8 weeks is pretty hefty though.
    No worries man. Beyond everything you mentioned above, it is a pretty tiny participant number as well, which adds more potential for wonky results.

    Regardless, I'll be super interested to see how people like it once it's released by someone.
    My parents created my body, in which I create my mind. I will honor them, by developing both to their utmost potential.
  18. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    46
    Posts
    31,843
    Rep Power
    768803
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    23.22%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    In my opinion, no. Gaining 0.1% LBM in 8 weeks is pretty anomalous. For an 180 lb male at 15% BF, that means he would gain 0.15 lbs of LBM in 2 months (or less than 1 lbm of LBM gain in a YEAR). Idk what they fed the control group, but something they were doing was wrong.
    Hmm is that right? was it LBM or muscle by dexxa? I mean in the 200lb 15%, sure you'd say 170lbs is LBM, but muscle is probably only what 45? still .1% sucks.

    Or was it meant to be a maintenance diet? I only glanced at it
  19. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,531
    Rep Power
    6135551
    Level
    96
    Lv. Percent
    75.48%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Hmm is that right? was it LBM or muscle by dexxa? I mean in the 200lb 15%, sure you'd say 170lbs is LBM, but muscle is probably only what 45? still .1% sucks.Or was it meant to be a maintenance diet? I only glanced at it
    It says LBM.Upon closer inspection, the PL group basically gained no LBM OR fat mass. The PA group gained no real fat mass but had the 2.6% rise in LBM. So it would follow that the PA group was eating above maintenance
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
  20. New Member
    mmats's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    44
    Rep Power
    2225
    Level
    6
    Lv. Percent
    65.14%

    It was just proven bioavailable in humans - http://www.jissn.com/content/10/S1/P22

    Now when are we going to see some supplements available? Chemi Nutra still has it listed as "coming soon"
  21. Diamond Member
    mr.cooper69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    10,531
    Rep Power
    6135551
    Level
    96
    Lv. Percent
    75.48%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    We already knew it was bioavailable, how else would the effects of the initial study be observed? It's under patent right now and basically only the patent holders want to sell it...licensing not available
    http://pescience.com/
    http://selectprotein.com/
    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
  22. New Member
    mmats's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    44
    Rep Power
    2225
    Level
    6
    Lv. Percent
    65.14%

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    We already knew it was bioavailable, how else would the effects of the initial study be observed? It's under patent right now and basically only the patent holders want to sell it...licensing not available
    Layne mentioned just a few months ago that he still had concerns of the bioavailability (maybe because of competing interests from the initial study). Some articles I read before led me to believe it had possibly already been licensed out, but maybe they were just worded poorly. Im still waiting on a response from Chemi Nutra.
  23. New Member
    mmats's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    44
    Rep Power
    2225
    Level
    6
    Lv. Percent
    65.14%

    Response from Chemi Nutra -

    Thanks for reaching out regarding Mediator® Phosphatidic Acid (PA).

    At this point Mediator® is not currently available to the commercial market. However, a customer that is using it in a finished product should be releasing their product very soon; likely by the New Year.

    Best regards,
  24. Senior Member
    De__eB's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  169 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,025
    Rep Power
    1731969
    Level
    56
    Lv. Percent
    93.1%
    Achievements Posting ProActivity Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    We already knew it was bioavailable, how else would the effects of the initial study be observed? It's under patent right now and basically only the patent holders want to sell it...licensing not available
    The patent is being butchered pretty heavily in review.

    Claims 4-5, 10-24, and 27 have already been cancelled by Chemi-nutra.

    Claims 1-3, 6-9, 25-26, 28-36 (all of the rest) are still rejected in the 3rd revision and subsequent non-final rejection of the patent.

    SNS Representative - DeeB@seriousnutritionsolutions .com
  25. Board Sponsor
    flightposite's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,960
    Rep Power
    361031
    Level
    43
    Lv. Percent
    95.08%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Looks like biotest is planing a release.
    Athletic Xtreme Team REP
    http://www.AthleticX.net/
    AXHOLE BY NATURE
  26. Professional Member
    Geoforce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,890
    Rep Power
    1188974
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    41.24%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by flightposite View Post
    Looks like biotest is planing a release.
    Yeah, Biotest is bringing it out this month. At probably only 200 dollar markup!
    EvoMuse Products Rep

    PM me with any questions!
  27. Board Sponsor
    flightposite's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,960
    Rep Power
    361031
    Level
    43
    Lv. Percent
    95.08%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce

    Yeah, Biotest is bringing it out this month. At probably only 200 dollar markup!
    Lmao. Yeah for auto ship only hahaha
    Athletic Xtreme Team REP
    http://www.AthleticX.net/
    AXHOLE BY NATURE
  28. New Member
    mmats's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    44
    Rep Power
    2225
    Level
    6
    Lv. Percent
    65.14%
  29. New Member
    mmats's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    44
    Rep Power
    2225
    Level
    6
    Lv. Percent
    65.14%

    lol $65 for 20 servings...

    anyone take the plunge?
  30. Professional Member
    Geoforce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,890
    Rep Power
    1188974
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    41.24%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by mmats View Post
    lol $65 for 20 servings...

    anyone take the plunge?
    I haven't read the article yet but I'm sure it's a micro encapsulated patent pending liquicap delivery system designed to immediately deliver phosphatic acid right to the muscles. And I'm sure some really strong guys have mentioned that it has dropped bodyfat and/or increased muscle mass at a rate they never thought was possible.

    I hate the way they market everything, but in a way I tip my hat to them as misleading genuises. A lot of the people on that site lick up everything they say as gospel. Many people on that site would buy it if it was 20 servings for 125 dollars.
    EvoMuse Products Rep

    PM me with any questions!
  31. Senior Member
    De__eB's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  169 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,025
    Rep Power
    1731969
    Level
    56
    Lv. Percent
    93.1%
    Achievements Posting ProActivity Pro

    The ingredient is really expensive FWIW and it looks like T-Nation is licensing it from Chemi-Nutra.
    SNS Representative - DeeB@seriousnutritionsolutions .com
  32. New Member
    MultiVitamin's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    474
    Rep Power
    652274
    Level
    37
    Lv. Percent
    94.42%

    Would really love to take the plunge is my funds would allow me..
    BPS Rep
    DISCLAIMER: The above post is my personal opinion and does not represent the official position of any company or entity. It does not constitute medical advice.
  33. Advanced Member
    BigGame84's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    772
    Rep Power
    330885
    Level
    32
    Lv. Percent
    22.21%
    Achievements Activity Pro

    Got a discount so bought 3 bottles. Will be stacking with Analyzed Supplements Leucine tabs. Let the fun begin...
  34. New Member
    MultiVitamin's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    474
    Rep Power
    652274
    Level
    37
    Lv. Percent
    94.42%

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGame84 View Post
    Got a discount so bought 3 bottles. Will be stacking with Analyzed Supplements Leucine tabs. Let the fun begin...
    You should run a log (or post link if you already are)
    BPS Rep
    DISCLAIMER: The above post is my personal opinion and does not represent the official position of any company or entity. It does not constitute medical advice.
  35. Senior Member
    HATEFULone's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,514
    Rep Power
    5860
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    8.43%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by mmats View Post
    lol $65 for 20 servings...

    anyone take the plunge?
    Test p is like $10 a vial, $30 at the most. What ever happened to supplements that worked? M1T was laced with Dbol at one point and it was cheap.
  36. Advanced Member
    todd muelheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    548
    Rep Power
    516289
    Level
    34
    Lv. Percent
    7.03%
    Achievements Activity Pro

    Subbed
  37. Professional Member
    Geoforce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,890
    Rep Power
    1188974
    Level
    58
    Lv. Percent
    41.24%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGame84 View Post
    Got a discount so bought 3 bottles. Will be stacking with Analyzed Supplements Leucine tabs. Let the fun begin...
    Would definitely like your feedback. T-nation has so many people who won't talk negatively about them no matter what. Really hope you have a good run. Let us know.
    EvoMuse Products Rep

    PM me with any questions!
  38. Advanced Member
    todd muelheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    548
    Rep Power
    516289
    Level
    34
    Lv. Percent
    7.03%
    Achievements Activity Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    Would definitely like your feedback. T-nation has so many people who won't talk negatively about them no matter what. Really hope you have a good run. Let us know.
    It's not that dissimilar to one of the companies on this board...no offense to them, but they pretty much can do no wrong no matter what. Tnation is also highly, highly moderated as well so we don't even get to see the negative. I'm eager to see feedback on this.
  39. Advanced Member
    BigGame84's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    772
    Rep Power
    330885
    Level
    32
    Lv. Percent
    22.21%
    Achievements Activity Pro

    I probably won't do a log because I'd be too lazy at doing it. But I will report back what I experience when I can. I figured Leucine tabs would be ideal to stack with this. The human study and research is the reason why I decided to take the plunge.
  40. Senior Member
    The Engineer's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  160 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,200
    Rep Power
    409546
    Level
    38
    Lv. Percent
    26.03%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    PA + ARA maybe?
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Your meal plan for elite strength and size!
    By tashygirl in forum Nutrition / Health
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-15-2012, 06:52 PM
  2. SRS SUMMER CYCLE, FOR STRENGTH AND SIZE
    By lyfespan in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-25-2010, 02:46 PM
  3. Best Supplement for strength and size(NATURALLY!!)
    By SHaneA655 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 01-06-2009, 12:33 AM
  4. cycle help, for strength, not size!!
    By powerman12345 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-24-2007, 01:27 PM
  5. Anabolics for Strength and Endurance
    By Doomsday in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 04-11-2006, 06:17 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in