Arginine Alpha Ketoglutarate or Arginine ethyl ester

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    Arginine Alpha Ketoglutarate or Arginine ethyl ester


    Anyone got any thoughts on which is the better?

    Does dosage differ between the two to be effective.


    Any thoughts please

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    Both work good. In theory you should have to dose AEE lower.

    White BLOOD = AEE / OEE
    White FLOOD = AAKG / OAKG

    O = Ornithine
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    Esterification (as in arginine ethyl ester, AEE) or bonding with alpha ketoglutarate (as in arginine alpha ketoglutarate, AAKG) would promote absorption, stability, and bioavailability. But beyond this, alpha ketoglutarate has many other properties that esterification would not deliver. In particular, with an alpha-ketoglutarate bond, one would obtain all the endothelial-lining-support and vasoldilation properties of arginine plus a number of cool benefits of alpha ketoglutarate (AKG), such as more arginine stability, bioavailability and absorption. Furthermore, alpha ketoglutarate will serve as a transport medium for arginine, making it directly available at the cellular levels for optimal synthesis. Beyond this, alpha ketoglutarate improves the endogenous production of of glutamine and glutamic acid, both important for muscle growth and for the immune system. AKG also binds to toxic ammonia in muscle cells, in the liver, and in the brain, thereby converting ammonia into glutamic acid, improving glutamine levels and assisting in elimination of toxic ammonia from the body. Lastly, as a Krebs Cycle intermediate, AKG improves VO2 Max and energy metabolism in muscle cells, and is consequently a potent ergogenic.

    Personally, I prefer the AAKG, not just because it is a more natural compound, but because it possesses several other important properties. More precisely, arginine bonded to any of the Krebs Cycle intermediate such as citrate, fumarate, malate, succinate, and alpha ketoglutarate, or compounds involved indirectly in the energy cycle, for instance, orotate, pyruvate, and so on, generally yields improved absorption, bioavailability, and potency.

    In terms of dosing, it may help to recall that plain arginine has the property that it's absorption through the intestines is limited, causing arginine to be rapidly degraded, leaving only small quantities to produce the typical arginine effects. This is why you need to consume relatively more base arginine to see any results. Esterification or bonding with alpha ketoglutarate overcomes the typical arginine limitations, ensuring that arginine absorbs optimally and is available for its ergogenic properties. So, you basically need less of arginine ethyl ester (about 3g per dose) or arginine alpha ketoglutarate, (about 3g per dose) compared to base arginine to produce better results than base arginine.
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    Strategicmove thanks for that .Very useful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Esterification (as in arginine ethyl ester, AEE) or bonding with alpha ketoglutarate (as in arginine alpha ketoglutarate, AAKG) would promote absorption, stability, and bioavailability. But beyond this, alpha ketoglutarate has many other properties that esterification would not deliver. In particular, with an alpha-ketoglutarate bond, one would obtain all the endothelial-lining-support and vasoldilation properties of arginine plus a number of cool benefits of alpha ketoglutarate (AKG), such as more arginine stability, bioavailability and absorption. Furthermore, alpha ketoglutarate will serve as a transport medium for arginine, making it directly available at the cellular levels for optimal synthesis. Beyond this, alpha ketoglutarate improves the endogenous production of of glutamine and glutamic acid, both important for muscle growth and for the immune system. AKG also binds to toxic ammonia in muscle cells, in the liver, and in the brain, thereby converting ammonia into glutamic acid, improving glutamine levels and assisting in elimination of toxic ammonia from the body. Lastly, as a Krebs Cycle intermediate, AKG improves VO2 Max and energy metabolism in muscle cells, and is consequently a potent ergogenic.

    Personally, I prefer the AAKG, not just because it is a more natural compound, but because it possesses several other important properties. More precisely, arginine bonded to any of the Krebs Cycle intermediate such as citrate, fumarate, malate, succinate, and alpha ketoglutarate, or compounds involved indirectly in the energy cycle, for instance, orotate, pyruvate, and so on, generally yields improved absorption, bioavailability, and potency.

    In terms of dosing, it may help to recall that plain arginine has the property that it's absorption through the intestines is limited, causing arginine to be rapidly degraded, leaving only small quantities to produce the typical arginine effects. This is why you need to consume relatively more base arginine to see any results. Esterification or bonding with alpha ketoglutarate overcomes the typical arginine limitations, ensuring that arginine absorbs optimally and is available for its ergogenic properties. So, you basically need less of arginine ethyl ester (about 3g per dose) or arginine alpha ketoglutarate, (about 3g per dose) compared to base arginine to produce better results than base arginine.
    Great post (reps)
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Esterification (as in arginine ethyl ester, AEE) or bonding with alpha ketoglutarate (as in arginine alpha ketoglutarate, AAKG) would promote absorption, stability, and bioavailability. But beyond this, alpha ketoglutarate has many other properties that esterification would not deliver. In particular, with an alpha-ketoglutarate bond, one would obtain all the endothelial-lining-support and vasoldilation properties of arginine plus a number of cool benefits of alpha ketoglutarate (AKG), such as more arginine stability, bioavailability and absorption. Furthermore, alpha ketoglutarate will serve as a transport medium for arginine, making it directly available at the cellular levels for optimal synthesis. Beyond this, alpha ketoglutarate improves the endogenous production of of glutamine and glutamic acid, both important for muscle growth and for the immune system. AKG also binds to toxic ammonia in muscle cells, in the liver, and in the brain, thereby converting ammonia into glutamic acid, improving glutamine levels and assisting in elimination of toxic ammonia from the body. Lastly, as a Krebs Cycle intermediate, AKG improves VO2 Max and energy metabolism in muscle cells, and is consequently a potent ergogenic.

    Personally, I prefer the AAKG, not just because it is a more natural compound, but because it possesses several other important properties. More precisely, arginine bonded to any of the Krebs Cycle intermediate such as citrate, fumarate, malate, succinate, and alpha ketoglutarate, or compounds involved indirectly in the energy cycle, for instance, orotate, pyruvate, and so on, generally yields improved absorption, bioavailability, and potency.

    In terms of dosing, it may help to recall that plain arginine has the property that it's absorption through the intestines is limited, causing arginine to be rapidly degraded, leaving only small quantities to produce the typical arginine effects. This is why you need to consume relatively more base arginine to see any results. Esterification or bonding with alpha ketoglutarate overcomes the typical arginine limitations, ensuring that arginine absorbs optimally and is available for its ergogenic properties. So, you basically need less of arginine ethyl ester (about 3g per dose) or arginine alpha ketoglutarate, (about 3g per dose) compared to base arginine to produce better results than base arginine.
    Great post! !!!!
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    Why has no one ever thought about doing this witb Taurine or have they?
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    and di arginine malate ???
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    If you plan on taking the powder straight or non-capped, then one thing to note is that AAKG has virtually no taste, I have heard AEE tastes pretty bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOYFORDOLET View Post
    I have heard AEE tastes pretty bad.
    that's putting it lightly... I'm trying to finish off 100g right now & it's killing me! Anybody out there, does this compare to yellow gold?
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Esterification (as in arginine ethyl ester, AEE) or bonding with alpha ketoglutarate (as in arginine alpha ketoglutarate, AAKG) would promote absorption, stability, and bioavailability. But beyond this, alpha ketoglutarate has many other properties that esterification would not deliver. In particular, with an alpha-ketoglutarate bond, one would obtain all the endothelial-lining-support and vasoldilation properties of arginine plus a number of cool benefits of alpha ketoglutarate (AKG), such as more arginine stability, bioavailability and absorption. Furthermore, alpha ketoglutarate will serve as a transport medium for arginine, making it directly available at the cellular levels for optimal synthesis. Beyond this, alpha ketoglutarate improves the endogenous production of of glutamine and glutamic acid, both important for muscle growth and for the immune system. AKG also binds to toxic ammonia in muscle cells, in the liver, and in the brain, thereby converting ammonia into glutamic acid, improving glutamine levels and assisting in elimination of toxic ammonia from the body. Lastly, as a Krebs Cycle intermediate, AKG improves VO2 Max and energy metabolism in muscle cells, and is consequently a potent ergogenic.

    Personally, I prefer the AAKG, not just because it is a more natural compound, but because it possesses several other important properties. More precisely, arginine bonded to any of the Krebs Cycle intermediate such as citrate, fumarate, malate, succinate, and alpha ketoglutarate, or compounds involved indirectly in the energy cycle, for instance, orotate, pyruvate, and so on, generally yields improved absorption, bioavailability, and potency.

    In terms of dosing, it may help to recall that plain arginine has the property that it's absorption through the intestines is limited, causing arginine to be rapidly degraded, leaving only small quantities to produce the typical arginine effects. This is why you need to consume relatively more base arginine to see any results. Esterification or bonding with alpha ketoglutarate overcomes the typical arginine limitations, ensuring that arginine absorbs optimally and is available for its ergogenic properties. So, you basically need less of arginine ethyl ester (about 3g per dose) or arginine alpha ketoglutarate, (about 3g per dose) compared to base arginine to produce better results than base arginine.
    Posts like this make me love this guy....great post man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    Why has no one ever thought about doing this witb Taurine or have they?
    I use both in my preWO shake, 5g Taurine and 4g AAKG, along with other bulk supps from NP.

    Great post StrategicMove
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    I'm thankful you found my contribution useful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Esterification (as in arginine ethyl ester, AEE) or bonding with alpha ketoglutarate (as in arginine alpha ketoglutarate, AAKG) would promote absorption, stability, and bioavailability. But beyond this, alpha ketoglutarate has many other properties that esterification would not deliver. In particular, with an alpha-ketoglutarate bond, one would obtain all the endothelial-lining-support and vasoldilation properties of arginine plus a number of cool benefits of alpha ketoglutarate (AKG), such as more arginine stability, bioavailability and absorption. Furthermore, alpha ketoglutarate will serve as a transport medium for arginine, making it directly available at the cellular levels for optimal synthesis. Beyond this, alpha ketoglutarate improves the endogenous production of of glutamine and glutamic acid, both important for muscle growth and for the immune system. AKG also binds to toxic ammonia in muscle cells, in the liver, and in the brain, thereby converting ammonia into glutamic acid, improving glutamine levels and assisting in elimination of toxic ammonia from the body. Lastly, as a Krebs Cycle intermediate, AKG improves VO2 Max and energy metabolism in muscle cells, and is consequently a potent ergogenic.

    Personally, I prefer the AAKG, not just because it is a more natural compound, but because it possesses several other important properties. More precisely, arginine bonded to any of the Krebs Cycle intermediate such as citrate, fumarate, malate, succinate, and alpha ketoglutarate, or compounds involved indirectly in the energy cycle, for instance, orotate, pyruvate, and so on, generally yields improved absorption, bioavailability, and potency.

    In terms of dosing, it may help to recall that plain arginine has the property that it's absorption through the intestines is limited, causing arginine to be rapidly degraded, leaving only small quantities to produce the typical arginine effects. This is why you need to consume relatively more base arginine to see any results. Esterification or bonding with alpha ketoglutarate overcomes the typical arginine limitations, ensuring that arginine absorbs optimally and is available for its ergogenic properties. So, you basically need less of arginine ethyl ester (about 3g per dose) or arginine alpha ketoglutarate, (about 3g per dose) compared to base arginine to produce better results than base arginine.
    If I ever become half as smart/knowledgable as Strategic, I'll die a happy man!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjo View Post
    If I ever become half as smart/knowledgable as Strategic, I'll die a happy man!
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    Question/Comment:

    I have taken AKG in a powder form as well as AEE in a capsule. I took these on separate occasions, but both times with SP250 (pre workout). With both of these I used the product to completion. I noticed the AEE (from SNI labs) gave me incredible pumps (over the SP250's typical pump) while the AKG powder (from Olympia labs, I believe) did not affect me.

    Has anyone else had a similar experience? Does a reason exist for this?

    I do realize that the amount (mg/g) is a huge factor in determining this. I belive they were comparable doses. However I am actually going to the store to get more AEE in minutes so I can confirm this later.

    The above information is very persuasive towards AKG, and it seems very credible. But with cash being tight I don't want to waste money. I also know the AEE, from SNI at least provides me the desired effect.

    -Alex
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    Di-Arginine malate?
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