Verification of Proper Cycle

[bobbyv]

Hello everyone! I have been lurking through these forums on AM for about a month now, although just recently becoming a member. I believe I have searched every possible thread about Epistane and Havoc there is! Seeing as how Epi has been taken off the market, I want to start taking Havoc. My budget for this cycle is about $80-120. I am including Cycle Support, Havoc and Post Cycle Support in my budgeted cycle plan.

I have read a lot about liver support and I want to know if both cycle supports will 100% support my liver during and post cycle. Also, what is the deal with ph tests? Is this completely necessary? I plan on getting blood work done after my cycle to make sure my body isn’t falling apart on me from the inside out. This seems to be a common suggestion.

A little bit about me. I am 22 years old and have been lifting for 2 years now. I feel that I have hit a plateau and I want a boost. I feel that Havoc will help me get to where I want to be. I am 6’3”, 210lbs. My target goal is 235lbs within the next 18 months. Is this the right direction to go with Havoc? Am I taking all of the necessary steps with my cycle? All/any comments are appreciated! Thanks.

[MattMiller]

one thing...80 to 120 bucks is probablly not going to be enough unless you are getting all this stuff at an insane price. yes cycle support will be enough for a havoc cycle, you need to run it on cycle and in post cycle therapy which will cost you about 65 bucks just for that. you need to save up some money for this cycle cus you are going to need more money than that. while you are saving up you should go spend some time in the post cycle therapy forum cus you have some to learn. what are you planning on running for your post cycle therapy? look into serms's, AI's, test boosters etc. and maybe before you decide to get on cycle...try switching up your lifting routine, that is one of the main reasons people plateu at 22. your test levels should still be pretty high.

as for blood work, find a good doctor who will run the tests for you and if you dont have insurance be ready to pay for it.

[bobbyv]

k matt--

i went ahead and bought epethin-E because havoc and epi are impossible to get my hands on. i am going to run cycle support during my cycle and post cycle support after my cycle. i plan on pulsing every other day. any other suggestions or things to worry about?

[MattMiller]

k matt--

i went ahead and bought epethin-E because havoc and epi are impossible to get my hands on. i am going to run cycle support during my cycle and post cycle support after my cycle. i plan on pulsing every other day. any other suggestions or things to worry about?

yea what does your post cycle therapy look like? this would be a mojor concern if you dont have anything. if you dont have anything then start reading in the post cycle therapy forum. lots of good information there...i have to get back to work but there is a post cycle therapy thing that neoborn wrote up that is pretty good. if he doesnt come in and post it up for you i will when i get a chance to get back on the internet.

[bobbyv]

yea what does your post cycle therapy look like? this would be a mojor concern if you dont have anything. if you dont have anything then start reading in the post cycle therapy forum. lots of good information there...i have to get back to work but there is a post cycle therapy thing that neoborn wrote up that is pretty good. if he doesnt come in and post it up for you i will when i get a chance to get back on the internet.

I am running both of these products. They support the liver and the rest of the body during and after the cycle.

http://www.sbmuscle.com/index.asp?Pa...OD&ProdID=3415

http://www.sbmuscle.com/index.asp?Pa...OD&ProdID=3414

[MattMiller]

I am running both of these products. They support the liver and the rest of the body during and after the cycle.

http://www.sbmuscle.com/index.asp?Pa...OD&ProdID=3415

http://www.sbmuscle.com/index.asp?Pa...OD&ProdID=3414

ok well that is not gonna be enough for your post cycle therapy. your going to need to look into SERM's, AI's, test boosters and all that good stuff, sorry its taking me so long to get some responses to you, i still have not had time to look for that post neoborn had with the post cycle therapy information, once my girlfriend leaves me alone about the computer ill get on and find that post, it should be up in a couple hours. in the mean time go to the post cycle therapy section on this board and read. start looking at products like tormifene, nolvadex etc. for serms, diesel test, drive etc. for test boosters and 6 oxo etc for aromatase inhibitors.

[MattMiller]

this is what neoborn posted up, not sure if the links work or not though

1. Cycle Support

2. Post Cycle Support

3. Go see Dr.!

Or
Most Importantly!

No Excuses & No ***** ***: A Stupid People's Guide to PCT

SERM + P.C.T Guide

Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:

Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.

1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc

Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm

You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem

Example Nolva Dosing:
Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
Wk2: 20mg everyday
Wk3: 10mg everyday
Wk4: 10mg everyday

I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe.

3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - I have heard good things on the following: Dermacrine Sustain, Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

NON-Rx SERM + P.C.T Guide

1. Non Rx SERM - Post Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Dermacrine Sustain(Recommended)

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.

3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), Dermacrine Sustain, 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - I have heard good things on the following: Dermacrine Sustain, Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.

With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.

Things To Note

1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!

2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT


3. Know what gyno is and the symptoms of gyno: @@@ Gyno Questions - Please Read This First @@@ - Bodybuilding.com Forums

4. Real Gynomastia Before & After's:


5. Love your Liver!