Arzi75's Super Cissus RX Log
- 08-04-2007, 08:17 PM
Arzi75's Super Cissus RX Log
Here's some vital background:
The listings below are by no means in any particular order or do not constitute comprehensive listings of my recent, current, nor future supps.
Supps most recently used (in no particular order):
ALRI Jungle Warfare, ALRI BAM, USPLabs Anabolic Pump, USPLAbs PowerFULL, LG Product X Dermasize, MHP Leukidrol, LG Speed, LG Product X, SAN Attitude, LG Formadrol Extreme, BSN Axis-HT, FAST Burner, FAST Pump, Scitec ALC, Muscle-Tech Leukic, Muscle-Tech Hydroxycut, Leader L-Glutamine, Reflex BCAAs, SAN Vault, SAN Estrozap, SAN Endotest Pro, SAN Estrodex, Controlled Labs White Blood, Dymatize Trib-650, Dymatize Expand, Dymatize Z-Force ZMA, Interactive Nutrition Lean Gainer, Dymatize Mega Shake, Scitec Mass20, Scitec Attack, Leader N2 Extreme
Supps in regimen currently:
- vitamins (5-6 different products)
- essential fatty acids (EPA, DHA, ETA, ALA)
- non-essential fatty acids (GLA)
- antioxidant supps (5-6 different products)
- joint support supps: glucosamine, chondroitin acid, MSM
- other supps: Palo Alto Labs Reset-AD, Peak Performance Hyperfusion (a creatine mix), Scitec Creatine Puryvate, Nutrabolics Growth Factor (BCAAs), Fast BCAAs, Finnmax Beta-Alanine, Dymatize Liquid L-Carnitine, Weider Tribulus Terrestris, Leader Lecithin, Leader ZMA, USP Labs C2, EAS ThermoDynamX, EAS HMB, UFS L-Arginine, Twinlab L-Lysine, Finnmax Glycine, Universal GH Max, Force GH Stack, Scitec L-Glutamine, Nutrabolics CLENbutical, EAS CLA Pro, Leader CLA
Supps that I will start taking soon:
RPM, IGF-2, 6-OXO
Supps that I could start taking in the future:
11-OXO (or 3-AD)
The objective of this log:
I embarked on this log with two goals on my mind - to see how much can 1 bottle of Super Cissus RX help me with my joint health issues and would it be possible for me, in the future, to stick only to a single Cissus supp instead of the line-up of other joint support supps I'm currently taking daily. Furthermore, to see, if Super Cissus RX would be able to match or even outmatch some NSAIDs that I am currently forced to take almost daily (been on Diclofenac for years and currently taking Celecoxib almost daily because of my knee problems).
Requirements for a passing grade for Cissus:
Super Cissus RX (or, if many, the Cissus supps I'll take) must be able to to some extend replace at least the boatload of joint supps in my current supp regimen, or - preferably - to alleviate my condition so that I could finally cut the NSAIDs completely or at least to able to cut down on them markedly.
- 08-04-2007, 08:45 PM
I received the bottle of USPLabs Super Cissus RX (I ordered about a week ago) yesterday evening and couldn't help myself to try my very first dose of Cissus right away - took one in the evening and one just before bed time.
I have to say that - like many - I'm, too, prone to placebo effects - even though I know how stupid people come across when they gobble down a claimed miracle pill and within two or three minutes report a "life-changing" experience - even before the pill was probably even properly digested in their system.
I know that especially with products like Cissus, the results get better with time, so I would come off like a total idiot telling that right after the first dose my joints felt "incredibly better" - well, having said that my joints did actually feel incredibly well all evening after my fist dose (1 cap) of Super Cissus RX - I haven't been able to properly walk up a flight of stairs in a few months without wearing some orthopedic support on my right knee, or sometimes the left knee, too.
Hey, sometimes I have to have my full orthopedic gear on while just going about my daily chores around the house for Pete's sake - looking like I'd just been cast for Battle Star Galactica or something for crying out loud!
Any way, the first 2 caps of Cissus were downed yesterday with only good things to report - didn't feel any "sides" and my aching knees felt pretty good all evening even though the pain is usually at its worst in the evenings along with mornings.
So, so far, Super Cissus RX, two thumbs up! Thank you guys at USP Labs, I'm loving you already!
PS. Like my Reset-AD log, this is a non-sponsored log - I probably never would do a sponsored log as they always come off a little dubious to the good people reading them who aren't getting their supps for free!
"I took this pill and lost 25 lbs. in a second and me mom told me she couldn't tell me from David Hasselhoff no more..." JK
- 08-04-2007, 09:21 PM
By any chance did you play High School Football?
(may be a factor of knee pain)
GOOD LUCK and great start!
08-04-2007, 10:32 PM
Today was my second day on Super Cissus Rx. I took 3 caps today - one in the morning, one in the middle of the day and one in the evening - I was so busy all day that did have time to reflect on my knee pains today so much, but I'd say today was a day of slight to moderate soreness in my knees, other limbs being ok, except for my left shoulder which I think I sprained last week, but that pain is pronouncedly different from my usual knee or elbow aches.
I had been pondering long and hard about what dosage to go for for a couple of days now, but, today, after studying the directions on the label, I decided to settle for the 3 caps a day for now to guarantee me enough joint health benefits with a little added anabolic boost on the side. Probably go for the full anabolic benefits later.
Finding the right dosing wasn't the only issue I have been trying to delve into and read up on as my choice of the right Cissus supp - or more specifically finding the right extract - for me was an exceedingly difficult one - at the end, a close call between the USPLabs Super Cissus RX and the Palo Alto Labs Incarnate.
After a couple of posts on this forum and a couple of discussions that focused on the differences between the different extracts, I decided to go for the 10% extract as most agreed it has most joint healing protential of the extracts although e.g one personal testimony claimed that for joint support purposes "10%, 20%, 40% etc. Cissus - they are all equally good!"
So, my plan is actually to start dabbling with the different extracts ultimately and to - over time - find the % (extract) that would give me preferably the best of both worlds - the joint health benefits and the increases in anabolism (increased strength)/metabolism (fat-reduction).
I will use the 10% extract of the Super Cissus RX as a standalone for the first weeks to give my joint repair experience a head start, but later, I will either switch to a different extract or expand my experiment by starting to take a higer % extract along with my "low" 10% extract (Super Cissus RX).
By taking two different % extracts at the same time, it would be possible for me to better experience not only the claimed better joint support properties of the low % extract, but also the anabolic/fat burning properties of the higher % extracts.
So, after sticking to the 3 cap a day dose for a while, I'll either just bump my dosage up to 4 or incorporate another Cissus supp with a higher % extract (Incarnate) into my Cissus regimen to take that along side Super Cissus Rx.
So, to experience the optimum "therapeutic" joint and ligament healing properties along with a fuller spectrum of other Cissus health benefits - increased metabolism, cortisol suppression, and anabolic properties, plus other antioxidantal benefits, 3-4 Super Cissus Rx with 2-4 Incarnate would sound like a plan to me.
08-05-2007, 07:35 AM
In school we are forced - probably by law - only to ski in the winter or, to play the Finnish version of baseball called 'pesäpallo' in the summer every gym class.
Thanks, RoidRage!GOOD LUCK and great start!
08-05-2007, 03:52 PM
Well, today I woke up with my right knee pretty damn sore like for most of the days during the last 2-3 months. Also my left shoulder is still aching, plus the back condition that I have had for years seems to have flared up overnight.
So, despite my intention of refraining from any NSAIDs during my Cissus log (at least the first 30 days), I took one cap of Celebra to get me moving in the morning. Let's hope that this was the last day for a while that I needed to take one. Also, applied some muscle/joint pain gel to my left shoulder - the same stuff I usually apply to my knees and elbows and/or wrists. Helps to keep the inflammation there in check, I guess.
Any how, I adhered to the 3 caps of Super Cissus Rx today like yesterday - didn't feel anything negative, but can't say that my joints felt particularly good either.
Don't know why it is so, but some supps you just feel good about taking even though you not even sure are there even really working for you - Super Cissus Rx seems to be a supp like that for me. I can't tell for sure - at least at this juncture - how much it's really helping my joints to recover, but I just feel really positive about taking it - almost like it's some delicious treat that you can't wait to gobble down.
I have once run a cycle of pharmaceutical grade glucosamine and I remember distinctly my joints getting better during the 5 or 6 weeks I took that supp daily, but never particularly enjoyed or looked forward to taking those pills, though - with Super Cissus Rx I'm already thinking about ordering another bottle even though I just started my first!
But like I said, at this point, not 100% sure if for the next bottle of Cissus I should opt for the higher % extract (like Incarnate), or just buy more of the 10% extract and perhaps try doubling my dosage i.e. bump the dose up to 6 caps of Super Cissus Rx a day. (With the Incarnate, my Super Cissus Rx dosage would most likely remain at the moderate 3 caps a day.)
08-06-2007, 08:13 PM
Today was a difficult day - not sure if it is the left shoulder that has been really sore for a week or so or whether the hours spent on the computer working from home are starting to take their toll on my posture, but both my shoulders feel now almost equally sore and my neck is so stiff currently that I can barely turn my head.
Like that is not enough discomfort, my knees have been aching steadily all day long, luckily the left knee only very subtly. Took 3 caps of Super Cissus Rx though, but also a handful of other joint supps along with a couple of caps of NSAID (diclofenac). I just wish I had some orphenadrine (Norflex) still left, would have readily taken that for the stiffness of my neck.
Any how, the BIG surprise came when I hit the gym - I had decided that no matter what I was going to have a delt workout despite my stiff neck and aching shoulders (the left being much more sore) tonight, but while on a recumbent exercise bike doing my warmup I decided that a delt day today was a no-go.
Well, for some reason, I decided that as my shoulder was aching, I couldn't probably do any upper-body exercises, so I decided to skip in my schedule to my next scheduled work-out which was the quads - the funny thing being that the ONLY body part that is hurting even worse than my shoulder is my knees. So, it didn't sound like a very good trade-off.
I do not know if the Cissus truly is working wonders on my joints beneath the achings that I'm still experiencing, but for the first time in about 3 or 4 months I was able to go almost 100% on my leg presses! Can you imagine that.
I am not very strong and I seldom go for sets of less than 5 reps - I consider a set of 5 reps to be my max - but to give you a picture of the situation - without mentioning the exact poundages - I usually have around 8 big plates plus a couple of smaller ones on my leg press (for my 5-6 reps max), but today I was able to go for 10 big plates for 8 reps!
Not my best ever, but an excellent result for me taking into the consideration that I have been only able to go 80% at the max on all my squats and leg presses for the last three or so months.
So, was it just a very lucky incident or is the Super Cissus Rx really healing up my ligaments and also giving me an extra anabolic boost in my strength or am I just reporting another placebo effect? YOU be the judge, guys!
08-08-2007, 08:20 PM
Took 3 caps of Super Cissus Rx and although I had a gruelling leg workout yesterday, I noticed to my surprise, that my knees were not all busted - just the usual soreness in the right knee while the left was perhaps slightly more sore than usual. But only slightly.
I hit the gym for the delt workout I was forced to skip yesterday as my shoulder hurt that bad - my shoulder felt better, and even though energy-wise not a particularly great workout, I managed to do some shoulder presses and dumbbell flies which felt good!
Did take one Diclofenac in the morning to ease my shoulder pain, plus some pain gel, but did not take any other NSAIDs today.
08-08-2007, 08:45 PM
Today was day 6. Good news is that my shoulder feels actually a lot better despite having the delt workout yesterday evening. On the other hand, my knees feel more sore today.
Today hit the gym for a quick triceps workout - once again energy-wise didn't feel so good, but was able to do some close-grip bench presses and dips, plus a few triceps extensions on a cable machine - strentgh-wise actually did not fare as bad I had expected.
Now my right elbow feels a bit sore - I usually don't get away doing dips with my elbows not hurting afterwards. And I'm not usually even doing weighted dips. Today I was lucky enough to be able to perform dips as some times my elbow (usually the right elbow) hurts so bad that doing dips is a no-go to begin with, and I'm talking about doing dips without weigths - can't even recall when was the last time I was able to do weighted dips! Probably never.
Took 3 caps of Super Cissus Rx and no NSAIDs today, which is great - I have been taking them for so long almost daily that even a single day without having to take them feels good!
Super Cissus Rx - keep up the good work!
08-09-2007, 11:02 AM
08-10-2007, 07:00 PM
08-11-2007, 09:18 AM
A total down day today - did not sleep so well, woke up kinda late and had all my joints aching like crazy all day.
Maybe this is just a bad case of DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) from my day 4 leg workout where I after a long hiatus of refraining from heavier weights on my leg day due to my joint problems went almost 100% on leg presses (I usually alternate between squat and leg presses on my quad days) - on hindsight, probably wasn't the wisest to go that hard on the quads due to knee condition.
So, had to resort to some NSAIDs and a LOT of pain gel to get me through the day.
Took my Cissus at the usual 3 caps a day, but I've been contemplating cutting back to 2 as the only gripe I have with Cissus is that I heard it can cause elevated estrogen levels - I have been struggling with gyno since I was 5 or so - I can def notice my estro levels being on the rise as I'm def noticing some gyno after a long period of having no gyno flare-up.
08-11-2007, 09:25 AM
On the subject of gyno - the gyno problem is one of the reasons I have been using AIs pretty heavily during the last year and a half - helped to get my gyno in check for sure, but now I'm afraid that the extensive and prolonged use of these AIs is really the main reason why I'm currently undergoing so many joint problems.
Been off the AIs for two months or so now (with the exception of taking some JW about a month ago), but contemplating taking some now to alleviate the gyno.
If you look at my list at the top of this thread of supps previously used, you can see that during the last year or so I've gone through already quite a few AIs - SAN Attitude, SAN Estrozap, SAN Estrodex, LG Formadrol Extreme etc. which is not wise, but like I said the AIs have been the only way I have ever been able to get my gyno in check.
08-11-2007, 09:33 AM
On the subject of DOMS, I just recently learned from two different sources that Cissus seems to alleviate DOMS and speed up recovery - I sure would like to see that happening for me, too - as noted in the post for day 6, I often get Very Delayed Onset MS. I don't know why this is, but often the day after the workout is not the worst muscle soreness (or apparently joint soreness) wise, but the second or even the third day.
This is a bummer as e.g. after a heavy-duty upper body part workout, I sometimes need to take two or sometimes even three days off of the gym just to be able to do another upper body part.
Although recently I have been able to stick to my current approximately 2 days on, one day off regimen with pretty good consistency. (I'm training usually only one body part a day currently.)
08-11-2007, 09:51 AM
Another down day in a row - did not sleep so well, felt extremely tired all day, had my right knee hurting like crazy - barely was able to walk without any orthopedic support on. Took the 3 caps of cissus, but also - for the first time this week, I think, some Celebra (Celecoxib) plus, once again, basically ended up lathering myself all over with different types of pain gel.
Like this wasn't enough trouble, I had to go to help a friend moving to Helsinki to move from about 100 miles away - at around 11 p.m. (they didn't get a U-Haul until around 6 p.m.).
Did not have time to hit the gym, obviously, but with my knees hurting so bad, probably would not have bothered any ways.
Let's hope day 9 turns out a little better i.e. that at least have the time to hit the gym for a quick biceps workout, which is actually my least favorite body part to hit, believe it or not!
08-11-2007, 10:31 AM
08-11-2007, 06:47 PM
Had that removal yesterday - I did not go to bed until around 4 a.m. or so but as it was Saturday, slept late. When I woke up, took all of my supps as usual and noticed - much to my surprise - that - despite all the moving during the wee hours - my joints did not hurt that much, which felt great.
Decided to hit the gym around 4.30 p.m. for the biceps workout, but after a few warmup sets decided to change my plans - my arms (muscles, not joints) were too sore from hauling the removal boxes all night that a biceps workout was going to be a no-go, so I opted to do hams instead.
Well, did some stiff-legged deadlifts etc. hammy exercises but noticed that the going up and down the stairs with heavy removal boxes in your lap had kind of worn out my legs and lower back, too, so not a particularly great workout.
Anyhow, the real bad news - later in the evening I noticed my right knee starting to ache BIG time - I checked my knee only to find out that I definitely have some water on my knee.
Took some Celecoxib, but not sure if it will help that fluid go away. Hopefully the fluid will go away, otherwise I might have to go see a doc about this.
08-12-2007, 06:17 PM
Today woke up with only one thing on my mind - how is my knee feeling - is it still hurting as bad as yesterday after the ham workout and has the fluid in it gone down.
I slept ok, but woke up a couple of times during the night just to notice that my knee was unusually sore - so, woke up just before noon and to my surprise the knee did not look that bad. It hurt like crazy still, though.
Did not take Cissus during the day, but had to take 2 caps of Diclofenac to get me going as I had to hit Ikea to shop for some kitchen chairs.
So, felt pretty bummed out all day, but once I hit the gym for my biceps workout finally, after the trip to Ikea, I felt a definite change for better in my mood despite my aching knees. I'm actually doing a Reset-A.D. log concurrently and for writing that log I have spent a lot of time on keeping track of my overall feelings of well-being and energy levels - today I felt a remarkable difference in my energy levels and drive during the workout - I could have gone on for hours despite my hurtings, I felt so good!
Geez, I felt like 15 again!
Not sure though, whether that was more due to my taking Cissus for the last 9 days or for my taking Reset-A.D for the last four weeks.
08-13-2007, 10:49 AM
08-13-2007, 06:56 PM
Hmmm, I wonder how come I never feel them being so structurally sound nowadays!
I think the whole issue has to do more or less with my estrogen levels - I think at one point my estrogen levels were too high - had no problems with my joints back then - but after taking some AIs for a couple of months on end with no breaks, the joint pains started big time. Also noticed a definite drop in libido.
So kind of suspecting that my joint pains are more or less related to my estrogen levels being too low from all the AIs I ended up taking.
08-14-2007, 08:59 AM
Today got my test results back - I had done some labs some two weeks ago - just a couple of days before starting to take Cissus - because of my estro concerns and also to rule out any rheumatoid ailment.
My basic blood panel looked okay, but my lipid profile was a little out of whack as my HDL was a little too low.
All the rheumatoid markers like RF (Rheumatoid Factor) were ok, so luckily no need to worry about any rheumatic disease.
But the one thing that was worrying was that my estrogen is actually currently way out of whack - way too low. So, at least no need to conjecture why my joints are aching so crazy and probably no need to fret about Cissus elevating my estrogen any more (if Cissus ever does that) - heck, I think I need all the possible estrogen elevation that I can get just to get my estrogen back to normal.
With all these health issues revolting around in my head, did not have the energy to worry about taking my supps today, but took one Cissus in the evening along with some other supps. Plus, once again some Celecoxib for the knee.
08-14-2007, 06:52 PM
Today I went to see my doc - or actually went and tried to get an appointment with my GP - did not turn out so well as it turned out he was on vacation, so I did not get a doc's appointment untill the first week of September.
We've got free health care in Finland, which is great, but the down side is that you can't tell your doc when you want to see him or her - you have to take what they offer. Well, if you are not paying for it, you can't complain, right.
I think the fluid in my knee has gone down a little, but the aching was actually worse today than yesterday, also the knee cap feels oddly "loose". I hope I have not torn some ligament or anything like that. Well, I guess I need to wait the two weeks till my doctor's appointment.
Anyhow, took two caps of Reset-A.D today with some glucosamine, MSM, chondroitin acid and Diclofenac and Celecoxib. Apart from my knee, the joint pains elsewhere are tolerable, even slightly diminished, but like I said, at the moment I find it a little hard to concentrate on telling which is the cause of which ailment and which supp is helping with which ailment as I'm still forced to taking so many diff supps for my joints, plus the other stuff and still seem to have so many ailments and, especially, because of this situation in my right knee which basically just started couple of days back on Saturday after the removal.
Also, still have the concerns about my estrogen levels overshadowing the joint issues, so have a lot of issues to solve here. Let's hope Cissus will help to contribute to the healing of my problems more than exacerbating them by i.e. messing up my hormone levels even more.
08-16-2007, 06:56 AM
Today took 3 caps of Cissus, some glucosamine, MSM, and chondroitin acid, plus one cap of Celecoxib.
The fluid in my right knee has def gone done and the right knee feels just a tad better - on the other hand, today my left knee felt more sore than usual.
Hit the gym for a pec workout only to notice that both of my shoulders felt kind of sore, too - I have had some problems with my right shoulder previously, and somehow sprained my left one two or so weeks ago - they both felt better - till I started doing some bench presses.
Got through the workout with about the number of sets I had in my mind before hitting the gym, but strentgh-wise it was not any where near as good as even my average chest workouts usually.
Anyhow, I felt kind of elated that at least the fluid in my right knee had gone down, although my right patella still feels oddly "loose".
08-16-2007, 04:56 PM
Today took 4 caps of Cissus. The first time during this log, I think, that I have tried dosing 4 a day.
Oddly, my left knee has been more sore than my right knee since yesterday, even though my right knee has been acting out markedly during the last weeks culminating in my getting some fluid in it last weekend.
Did visit the gym for a quick light cardio session - can't do regular sedantary exercise bike - ever - but the recumbent (or reclining) exercise bike works ok, and so does most elliptical trainers, but running is currently out of the question. While stretching, I noticed that both of my shoulders were still a little sore, but felt better than yesterday.
Took my glucosamine along with my current regular chondroitin acid + MSM -combo, but no NSAIDs today - I think I would have gone for one cap of Celecoxib, but I did not because I ran out of Celecoxib yesterday.
08-17-2007, 04:48 PM
Today was a second day in a row that I did not take any NSAIDs - took only 4 caps of Cissus - one in the morning, two during the day and one in the evening, plus a little (1000mg) of Glucosamine.
Partly because I am still out of Celecoxib - I do have another prescription (Meloxicam) for which I haven't found time to pick some up, yet - but also in part because today my achings overall were relatively tolerable - had both of my knees aching a bit, but that's just about it.
Although I'm about halfway through my bottle of Super Cissus Rx, I'm already thinking about ordering some more - just not completely sure which brand (or % extract) to opt for.
08-19-2007, 10:53 AM
Today picked up the Meloxicam as I had run out of Celecoxib a couple of days back. Still had some Diclofenac though, but lately has opted for Celecoxib for the knee pains (Diclofenac was originally prescribed to me because of back pains I used to have for years).
So, today took one pill of Meloxicam to see if it would help - with Celecoxib I almost immediately noticed some alleviation in the pain after taking in a cap or two - with Meloxicam (this was the first time I have tried this particular NSAID which is supposed to be very similar to Celecoxib) I did not notice anything remarkable at least right after consuming the first cap.
Took 3 caps of Cissus, but have been contemplating going back down to 2 caps, because of my hormones seem to be all out of whack (my estrogen is totally out of whack and both my test and cortisol level seem to border on the lower end of the gamut, too) as I have read that Cissus might mess up with either your test or estro levels.
On the other hand, like i said in a post a couple of days ago, either way if it is true that Cissus raises your test, estro or both (raises estro for that joint support benefit or raises test for the increased anabolic effects), I actually might benefit from taking Cissus in getting some boost in my estro and test levels that currently are kind of low-ish.
Also it has been said that Cissus is quite effective in cortisol control, so if my cortisol levels were kind of borderline low, too, I'm not sure how much more suppression I want to see in that area either.
So, because I do not know for sure how Cissus affects your different hormones and their levels, I think I will cease to pursue any anabolic benefits from Super Cissus Rx i.e. going to doses of 4 caps or even higher for the time being, but rather go back to the 2 caps a day to get solely the therapeutic (joint support) benefits Cissus can offer without risking messing up my hormone levels any more than what they already are - out of whack.
08-21-2007, 02:07 PM
Today ran out of all of my other joint supps - glucosamine, MSM and chondroitin acid, so compensated for that by taking 3 caps of Cissus instead of the 2 caps I was thinking about returning to.
Did hit the gym for a soulder workout, which was ok - my left soulder has not been feeling so sore anymore although my neck was stiff that doing delt exercises wasn't all fun and games.
Did not take any NSAIDs as I'm still out of Celecoxib and the Meloxicam I picked up yesterday did not seem to work well enough.
08-21-2007, 02:25 PM
Today was a typical Monday - not much to report - took 2 caps of Cissus and 1 cap of Meloxicam. Still out of glucosamine and chondroitin acid.
Pickep up some new cold gel yesterday that contains MSM - rubbed that all over. The knees are still hurting, but probably a little better than yesterday.
Did not go to the gym as it was my off-day.
09-11-2007, 05:33 AM
I'm taking 3 caps of super cissus a day
Rebound Reloaded & AcTivate to minimize estrogen and raise natty test.
You're saying you heard that Cissus might raise estrogen, and the two products might be cancelling eachother out?
Someone chime in
09-11-2007, 08:43 AM