Cutting Log - Innovate Hellfire and Muscle Gelz Androhard

[TatrsArsenal7]

Hello!

So I used to be a way more active member of this community about 7-8 years ago, but as I progressed through my studies, my time dedicated here obviously fell by the wayside, so much so that I even forgot my old credentials used to access the account. No worries, start anew.

Onto the topic at hand. So I will begin a cutting cycle in the next week or so and have amalgamated a list of products that I will be using, on top of my normal daily supplements. I'd appreciate any input or perspectives and so I will lay out what I have planned. Ultimately my goal is to drop as close to 170 as possible in the next 8 weeks. Currently I fluctuate between 187-190 depending on water and calorie intake.

List of supplements I currently take daily

-BCAA+EAA
-Creatine (5g+)
-Cissus Quadrangularis (Innovapharm's Superior Cissus)
-Cistanche Tubulosa (bulk powder)
-Butea Superba (bulk powder)

I take Cissus for my left knee. I've had two surgeries on that side to this point in my life. The first was a meniscal repair with some ACL clean-up and the second was a double meniscectomy with more ACL work, along with some arthritic calcium deposits under my knee cap (I play soccer, and refuse to stop). Superior Cissus is my go to. I used to use USP's Cissus Rx, then went on to some bulk cissus, and finally settled on InnovaPharm's iteration. Kills pain well and has helped a ton in my overall recovery. I can generally lift and do plyo with no issues and without the use of my brace, thanks in part to this product. Also, not that it's relevant to this cut, but the Superior Cissus works wonders on canine joints as well. My arthritic brindle boxer is moving like a champ again.

List of cutting tools

-Innovative's Hellfire Eph 150 (2/day)
-Muscle Gelz Andro Hard (6-8 pumps/day)
-Team 6 Alpha Yohimbine (Rauwolscine) (2/day)

I got myself from about 195 down to 187 just dieting and exercise over the last month and a half, but I want to kick it up another notch. I've never used Hellfire before and have read a lot of decent reviews on it, so I've decided to give it a shot. I've had decent success with ECA (generally bronkaid+caffiene pill+baby aspirin), but wanted something different this time. I like the potential mood elevation with Hellfire and I tend to react pretty well to PEA so we'll see how it goes.

Never used Andro Hard but I'm a big DHT fan. I repsonded quite well to Superdrol and Epistane in the past but didn't want the full blown suppression that may accompany. Probably start out at 200mg/day in split doses and work up to 300-400. I'm cautious about ramping though as I don't really want to put on any weight. Love to preserve every bit of muscle I have, but I'm not really looking to add much if any at all and it seems by the logs I've dug through that people start putting weight back on at around 8 pumps/day (albeit quality muscle gain).

Don't really feel the need to expand on Rauwolscine. Pretty much speaks for itself.

As for lifting history, I've lifted on and off for 15 years but have been getting back into the gym much more frequently as of late and so I wanted to take advantage in every way I could. Paramount to supplementation though was diet and re-establishment of good exercise habits. That's what created the initial 8 lb weight loss. I don't want the supplements to do all the work, but I've been stalling out and could use the extra kick.

Calories will sit between 1500-1800/day and as close to a 40/40/20 (Carbs/fat/pro) split as possible.

Have Nolva and formestane on hand for PCT if necessary. Androsterone seems to be mild on, if not beneficial, for lipid profiles, so not too concerned there, but I have red yeast rice and celery seed extract for Cholesterol/BP if necessary.

I'll update log every day or other day. It helps me stay focused on the task at hand. Hope to see some follow along.

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

Started the log late.

Currently on Day 3 of Androhard/Hellfire/Rauwolscine. Weighed in on Day 1 (Tuesday) at 191.6....this was after a weekend of gorging on carbs.

Lifted legs on Tuesday; light cardio with a soccer ball yesterday; lifted upper body and did light cardio after lifting today. Weighed in this morning at 188.1 lbs.

I'll be getting my BF composition tested at Fresno State here soon. I know the guys who run the human performance lab and one has agreed to let me test and re-test after the cycle for free. They have both hydrostatic weighing and bod pod as measuring tools.

Given it is currently day 3 my initial impressions are as follows:

Hellfire - ridiculous energy. Comparable/better to what I got from ye ole classic ECA. Mood enhancement is noticeable. No need to bump to 3/day at this point. I wouldn't sleep.

Rauwolscine - no noticeable stim effect but seems to increase mood and thermo-effect (at least perception thereof). Little kick for libido too.

Androhard - Only day three but impressed thus far. Not greasy and consistent with every pump. It dries very quickly and has no smell. From a physiological standpoint I notice my workouts are much sweatier, skin feels tighter, and muscles feel harder. My temper rises quick, but generally I'm also in a great mood. This could be either the PEA in hellfire or DHT...or both. Libido has also seen a slight kick. I'm also more aggressive in bed with the old lady. Generally I feel fairly calm unless I need too. Confidence may be kicking in. Today's lifting session produced most pronounced pump effects seen to this point.

As for application - I'm applying to the inside of biceps and on my sack (studies indicate a greater efficacy for absorption on scrotal skin) twice a day for a total of 6 pumps.

 

[LeanEngineer]

In on this!

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

Thanks for coming along! Hope the information proves useful for more than just myself...or entertaining at least haha.

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

*Quick update*

Weighed in this morning (Day 4) at 187.4 lbs. Today will likely be a rest day. Worked out 4 separate times in the last 3 days, and I have a game tomorrow.

To this point I'm down 4.2 lbs in 4 days. Clearly some water weight is at play but diet has been far more contained, although it isn't easy. Can't say I'm not pleased though. My Achilles heel has been eating late at night and I've almost cut that out completely, but working out more and the added DHT is starting to kick in, so hunger is being driven up. If I MUST have something I've been taking half a scoop of protein, 1 TBSP of peanut butter and 8-10 oz. milk. During the day self-control is higher, especially with the Hellfire.

Starting Weight: 191.6 lbs
Current Weight: 187.4 lbs
ΔW: 4.2lbs

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

*Quick Update

Today is day 7. I don't have my current weight but I'm sure there was some fluctuation, especially after Saturday. About an hour to hour and a half after soccer games I crave carbs like crazy. I was good all day until later that night - when I blew through a sh*tload of food. I stayed up late and ate a few more times than I want. Sunday I was back on track. Lifted legs today and did light cardio this evening. I felt great most of the time. Think the androsterone is kicking in harder. I've definitely noticed a slightly shorter temper and I'm horny basically all the time. I'll push on with 6 pumps/day for the time being but I have a feeling ill bump it to 9 pumps (3 pumps, 3 times, daily). No issues with application sites or the lotion itself.

Side note - Nuts look/feel a little bigger, which may be attributable to applying on the scrotum itself. Not a bad thing. I'll weigh in tomorrow morning and re-update.

 

[TexasLifter89]

In, participating in a cut myself.What was your old username?

Have you looked into mega dosing 7 keto dhea for later down the road?

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

Honestly not 100% positive on the name. I think it was KTatro7 or KMTatro72 or something along those lines. I didn't dig very hard haha.

I have considered it, and still am, just have never done it. Have you had success with it?

 

[TexasLifter89]

Honestly not 100% positive on the name. I think it was KTatro7 or KMTatro72 or something along those lines. I didn't dig very hard haha.

I have considered it, and still am, just have never done it. Have you had success with it?

I have not, but I have enough to run ~200-400mg for about 6 weeks. Just waiting on the right time to start it. There are a few transdermal 7keto logs going on right now, waiting to watch results a bit first.

 

[Dfwjag]

I'm in

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

*Update*

OK, sorry about going AWOL for a couple days. Work has been a fuc*king tornado. Anyways. I was able to weigh in this afternoon and had BIA (Bioelectrical Impedance Analysis) done. Not the same as hydrostatic weighing or Bod Pod, but it'll give me a rough estimate for now. Weighed in this afternoon at 186.8. This is good, because I know it flexed upwards over the weekend. Not to mention this weigh-in was middle afternoon with sweats/underwear on, so true weight is probably a bit lower. Attached is the pic of the analysis printed off from the scale. Obviously some of the figures will be pretty inaccurate (particularly metabolic age and degree of obesity) because the scale still uses a BMI calculation for certain figures.

Hellfire to this point: Energy still incredible, especially at 2/day. I basically just keep going all day. Appetite is low during the day and mood is great. Still have a bit of trouble eating late, and I think this is partially due to hunger increases through the adrosterone coupled with the Hellfire dying off.

Rauwolscine - doing it's job. Makes workouts sweatier and blood flow a bit better

AndroHard - I'm so tempted to bump the dose to 9 pumps/day (300mgs) because I'm enjoying it so much, but as mentioned in an earlier post, people started seeing slight weight gain at 8-12 pumps/day and that isn't quite what I'm going for. I don't want a recomp, so much as a direct cut while preserving muscle. Strength/endurance is going up in every lift, aggression is up but controllable, and libido is kickin pretty good. Recovery is speeding up. Usually DOMS doesn't peak for 36 hours in me. By the 36 hour mark I basically feel totally recovered. Skin is getting tighter and greater definition is appearing (starting to get serratus muscles in view again). I've had two separate people tell me I look like I've lost weight and am leaner in the last 4 days, so it's working. Sleep has been fantastic too. Dunno if this is because of the workouts, DHT, or both, but I'll take it.

Starting Weight: 191.6 lbs
Current Weight: 186.8 lbs
ΔW: 4.8lbs

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

*Update (Day 11)*

Weighed in this morning at 185.0. I have been more controlled in my diet the last few nights and although I haven't been as active as I would have liked this week, I'm still pleasantly surprised and happy with my results thus far. I have a game tomorrow but will probably get some light cardio in early afternoon.

Starting Weight: 191.6 lbs
Current Weight: 185.0 lbs
ΔW: 6.6 lbs

 

[CorpKiller]

Enjoying this log.

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

Enjoying this log.

Thank you, my friend! Glad to have you along!

 

[CorpKiller]

How’s the hairline while on Androhard?

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

How’s the hairline while on Androhard?

Honestly, I haven't noticed anything negative. Males in my family naturally have fairly thin hair, and mine has been receding for a couple years, but I keep it short. If anything, I've noticed a decrease in shedding. Completely anecdotal though.

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

*Update*

Had a game Saturday. Played the entire game with no sub (roughly 80 minutes). Legs already good to go. The andro is amazing in regards to recovery. No weigh in today. I have to slow myself down in that regard. I tend to obsess over the number, and while it is important, what's more important is the image in the mirror and the way my clothes fit.

Energy is still very consistently there whenever I need it. Overall strength, endurance, recovery, and aggression are all up while weight and bf% is going down.

I'm probably going to see if I can't accelerate the process a little bit by jumping to 3 pumps 3x daily (totaling 300mls andro). If it results in the scales tipping the other way I'll drop it down to 6 pumps again.

 

[CorpKiller]

Do you think it’s the Androhard helping you to drop the fat, or the low calorie diet?

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

Do you think it’s the Androhard helping you to drop the fat, or the low calorie diet?

The literature would suggest both the supplements and the deficit are creating the fat loss. I believe DHT increases cAMP levels, thereby increasing fat mobilization and utilization. DHT also clearly has anabolic properties, which tends to also have secondary effects on reducing fat levels in the body. In animal studies, DHT in adipose tissue played a role in inhibiting lipid synthesis as well as promoted several pathways that lead to apoptosis (cell death) of adipocytes. Whether this is true in human models remains to be seen, from what I understand.

The Hellfire should also play a large role in metabolism, either by increasing cAMP or epinephrine levels in the body (effectively stimulating the fight or flight response) which will increase fat metabolism.

So to answer your question: probably both. I will say, from an anecdotal and personal standpoint, calorie reduction by itself (in regards to me) has not acted this quickly in the past, so I have to believe that they are indeed creating a more positive response than diet alone. Placebo effect is quite powerful though, so who really knows haha.

 

[CorpKiller]

Awesome! Glad it’s working for you, and thanks for the knowledge.

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

*Update (Day 17)*

Weighed in this morning. Scale said 183.4 lbs. Happy with that. Getting better still at controlling the hunger at night. Weekends still tend to set me back a little but even with that I'm averaging about a .5 lb drop/day.

Workouts are brutal but good. Strength is still going up. I recover quick and get sweaty fast. Energy feels amazing still and mood is generally on point. Libido effects are nice. Wife seems to enjoy that particular aspect. I've been trying 9 pumps/day recently on the andro and am still dropping so I'm satisfied with that. Had a couple more people say something about me losing weight. That always feels good.

Starting Weight: 191.6 lbs
Current Weight: 183.4 lbs
ΔW: 8.2 lbs

 

[Meatballs]

*Update (Day 17)*

Weighed in this morning. Scale said 183.4 lbs. Happy with that. Getting better still at controlling the hunger at night. Weekends still tend to set me back a little but even with that I'm averaging about a .5 lb drop/day.

Workouts are brutal but good. Strength is still going up. I recover quick and get sweaty fast. Energy feels amazing still and mood is generally on point. Libido effects are nice. Wife seems to enjoy that particular aspect. I've been trying 9 pumps/day recently on the andro and am still dropping so I'm satisfied with that. Had a couple more people say something about me losing weight. That always feels good.

Starting Weight: 191.6 lbs
Current Weight: 183.4 lbs
ΔW: 8.2 lbs

How did it turn out?

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

How did it turn out?

Apologies for the layoff! But I'll fill in as quickly as I can before I get back to work.

As of this point, I am done running the Hellfire and Rauwolscine, and am coasting on the rest of the androhard. I think I still have about a third or quarter of the bottle left and am still running 6-9 pumps a day. I will come back and detail the time I've been absent either tonight or tomorrow morning. Life has just been kind of a whirlwind recently, but I did weigh in this morning and am still working my way down.

Starting Weight: 191.6 lbs
Current Weight: 176.2 lbs
ΔW: 15.4 lbs

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

Was able to weigh in today using the same BIA machine as before. Since that original weigh in I have dropped 11 pounds and about 3% body fat. Not too bad.

 

[Meatballs]

Damn bro that’s pretty impressive !

So did the Andro Hard keep you strong during this cut?

 

[TatrsArsenal7]

Damn bro that’s pretty impressive !

So did the Andro Hard keep you strong during this cut?

From what I can tell, absolutely. My strength has gone up in all major lifts in the last two months, while my weight has dropped. In all likelihood, at least some of the weight loss has probably come from muscles, but judging by the mirror and the weight I am putting up you wouldn't be able to tell. Since having run out of the Hellfire and rauwolscine, I have noticed a dip in energy throughout the day, but nothing unbearable.

My diet throughout the whole process has been much improved in comparison to just before starting, but by no means perfect. I'm now used to consuming less throughout the day. I don't get as hungry in general unless I have a particularly tedious workout. I do still get cravings at night, and if anything limited my weight loss to this point in this cut, it would probably be that.

Libido is still kicking pretty good. Joints still feel pretty good, although I've had some nagging tendonitis in my right shoulder for the last couple weeks. It doesn't usually hinder my lifts that much but I've had to dial back the upper body work to give it a bit more time to heal. My legs are as strong as they've been since I've had my second knee surgery. Regarding my knees, they've been holding up great. I haven't been measuring long jumps but I use evenly spaced lines when I do them as part of my plyo exercise and can tell I'm jumping further. When i started doing plyo again and trying to lose weight, I was also doing box jumps at 36 inches. I'm now at 42 inches. My cardio has improved on the soccer field, which is likely a function of my weight loss as well as my legs increased resistance to fatigue. Because my legs don't fatigue as quickly, I'm experiencing less knee problems/instability in my surgery knee. My hamstrings are noticeably bigger and stronger, which helps accommodate for the fact that my left knee has <50% of a typical adult ACL.

In the end I'm still not where I want to be yet, but I'm much closer. Luckily I'm still riding out the Androhard bottle, which is seemingly never-ending haha. To be fair I've also only been running 6 or at most 9 pumps a day.

I did weigh in again this morning. Still dropping weight, despite no Hellfire or Rauwolscine.

Starting Weight: 191.6 lbs
Current Weight: 174.4 lbs
ΔW: 17.2 lbs

 

[AndroRage]

Sounds good, I liked the product too. Yet to try it on cut though

 

[Sbdhhi]

Started the log late.

Currently on Day 3 of Androhard/Hellfire/Rauwolscine. Weighed in on Day 1 (Tuesday) at 191.6....this was after a weekend of gorging on carbs.

Lifted legs on Tuesday; light cardio with a soccer ball yesterday; lifted upper body and did light cardio after lifting today. Weighed in this morning at 188.1 lbs.

I'll be getting my BF composition tested at Fresno State here soon. I know the guys who run the human performance lab and one has agreed to let me test and re-test after the cycle for free. They have both hydrostatic weighing and bod pod as measuring tools.

Given it is currently day 3 my initial impressions are as follows:

Hellfire - ridiculous energy. Comparable/better to what I got from ye ole classic ECA. Mood enhancement is noticeable. No need to bump to 3/day at this point. I wouldn't sleep.

Rauwolscine - no noticeable stim effect but seems to increase mood and thermo-effect (at least perception thereof). Little kick for libido too.

Androhard - Only day three but impressed thus far. Not greasy and consistent with every pump. It dries very quickly and has no smell. From a physiological standpoint I notice my workouts are much sweatier, skin feels tighter, and muscles feel harder. My temper rises quick, but generally I'm also in a great mood. This could be either the PEA in hellfire or DHT...or both. Libido has also seen a slight kick. I'm also more aggressive in bed with the old lady. Generally I feel fairly calm unless I need too. Confidence may be kicking in. Today's lifting session produced most pronounced pump effects seen to this point.

As for application - I'm applying to the inside of biceps and on my sack (studies indicate a greater efficacy for absorption on scrotal skin) twice a day for a total of 6 pumps.

For the andro hard are you using it morning and night (3 pumps morning and 3 pumps at night)? whats the recommended if you're trying to have minimal suppression?