Ma Labs Vicaine (unsponsored log)

[Ricky10]

Not quite sure what took me so long to give this unique supplement a try, but the time is now!
I have been feeling a bit down in the dumps ever since summer came to a close, so I thought this would be a nice option for some mood enhancement from time to time.

I have relied quite heavily on stimulants for mood enhancement and motivation for close to 10 years...something like that anyway. That being said, I don't just look for a pill with a whopping 400mg dose of caffeine with some synephrine and call it good. What I really look for are products that offer a significant mood boost, more so than a big blast of energy. I also take 10-20mg of extended release dexedrine per day. Current top products I like for this purpose would be Performax Oxymax XT, Schizophrenic Psycho, Myokem Pyroxamine (very low caffeine content), and OL RE1GN if I were to include PWOs.

My favorites of the past are OG Detonate, DS Craze, and best of all...the Original Stimulant-X (words can't describe) Needless to say, we all know why...but were they good? Hell ya!

So Vicaine is an Opioid Stimulant Complex. Those who are not familiar with the product can take a look at it here...https://www.masupps.com/products/vicaine/
(use discount code AM20 for 20% off if you intend to buy)

Personally, I do not suffer from any chronic pain and I am not an abuser of opioids on a regular basis. However, If someone happens to offer me an Oxy at a party, I don't say no..

So does Vicaine have what it takes to impress me?


Mike Arnold

 

[Ricky10]

You'll have to wait to find out because that intro just took way too much out of me..

 

[Swindler]

I'm in...

 

[Godstrength]

Yes sir, I'm up in here.

 

[Ricky10]

Two nights ago, my first 1 pill dose was with 1 Oxymax XT, 1 scoop BloodShred War, and 1 scoop of the current Alphamine (I like the flavor). This is my typical cocktail when I first get out of bed or if I am getting ready for work (I work 12 hr night shifts). The addition of 1 Vicaine capsule did not go unnoticed. My mood was definitely better than usual, not in the least bit overstimulated, and I was very content. Since the first pill was so well tolerated, I took a second about an hour after the first and I did not particularly recall it hitting a different level, just more of the same which was very good! I proceeded to drive to work and social interaction was slightly awkward when I first arrived. I think I was just not used to the way I was feeling which was just a general feel good type of energy.

I never crashed, but approximately 1 Oxymax XT and 7 hours later, I took another Vicaine just to keep a good thing going....it did not disappoint. Mood was very high at this time and social interaction was extremely easy...I was saying things to people that I would not normally say, simply because I was so relaxed around them. Focus was also very strong...possibly a little too focused as some tasks like paperwork or computer documentation took me a bit longer than usual. Even still, I was easily able to set game plans and ultimately get my work done quite efficiently. The positive effects continued for the remainder of my shift and I fell asleep when I got home without any difficulty.

Overall, my first experience with Vicaine was very positive and I was already thinking about ordering more.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Thanks for the review, Ricky.

 

[ELROCK]

Oh I am for this! I love this stuff haha

 

[ELROCK]

Try to keep your Vicaine use to max 3x per week.

Next time try 2 caps at once in the morning.

 

[LeanEngineer]

Sweet! I'll get in on this!

 

[DWeaver]

Try to keep your Vicaine use to max 3x per week.

Next time try 2 caps at once in the morning.

Is this because of tolerance? Or what.

 

[rowz4broz]

3 caps works best for me

as said dont get hooked my friend

 

[ELROCK]

Is this because of tolerance? Or what.

I haven't noticed any tolerance with Vicaine, but I stick to 2-3x per week.

 

[ELROCK]

Vicaine lasts 4 hours for me. What about you guys?

 

[Ricky10]

So yesterday morning I took my morning Alphamine/BloodShred drink with 1 capsule of Vicaine and 1 capsule of OG Detonate (of which I only have 5 capsules left:06. Needless to say, I was looking for something special...honestly I can't remember it so I would say that was successful..

What I do remember is taking 1 Vicaine capsule about 5 hrs later along with 1 scoop Excelsior and 1 scoop of Quake as I was driving to the gym for a workout. This experience turned out to be something hard to describe but after talking to Mike, we agreed that I was probably overstimulated. I felt slightly jittery, but not in a heart racing panic attack type of way. My mood was not that great as it was probably just too much, and I also felt off balance...as in I lost my balance a couple times. The opioid attributes of the product seemed to be evident for the first time as it felt like I was working out after taking a muscle relaxer (not that I have done that). Despite all this, I actually ended up having a great workout in terms of strength, so there was no decline there. I can see how this would be beneficial for people to take PWO that do suffer from chronic pain.

After my workout, I sat in the locker room as I usually do and had a small snack. It's also a good opportunity to check out all the 70+ year old men that walk back and forth in the locker room naked for no reason. So I proceeded to have a snack pack of Ritz cheese cracker sandwiches and I think it took me 10 minutes to eat the six cracker sandwiches. I have noticed that Vicaine reduces my appetite pretty significantly. At the same time, I was pretty hyper-focused and ended up staring at the locker in front of me, and of course the naked old men when they made their way back around.

Needless to say, I will not be taking this again with a fully dosed PWO, and I may not even use it at all for lifting sessions. This will require a bit more experimentation...so we shall see. Today I have decided will be a day off from taking Vicaine, the good news is that I don't feel like I am withdrawing from anything and I am not reaching for the bottle as if I need to take one.

 

[Ricky10]

Vicaine lasts 4 hours for me. What about you guys?

I can't really tell yet because I have only taken it 2 days under very different circumstances, and with different ancillary products. I am tempted to say it is a bit longer though....maybe six hours? I don't seem to experience a crash so that makes it a bit hard to tell so far..

 

[Godstrength]

So yesterday morning I took my morning Alphamine/BloodShred drink with 1 capsule of Vicaine and 1 capsule of OG Detonate (of which I only have 5 capsules left:06. Needless to say, I was looking for some something special...honestly I can't remember it so I would say that was successful..

What I do remember is taking 1 Vicaine capsule about 5 hrs later along with 1 scoop Excelsior and 1 scoop of Quake as I was driving to the gym for a workout. This experience turned out to be something hard to describe but after talking to Mike, we agreed that I was probably overstimulated. I felt slightly jittery, but not in a heart racing panic attack type of way. My mood was not that great as it was probably just too much, and I also felt off balance...as in I lost my balance a couple times. The opioid attributes of the product seemed to be evident for the first time as it felt like I was working out after taking a muscle relaxer (not that I have done that). Despite all this, I actually ended up having a great workout in terms of strength, so there was no decline there. I can see how this would be beneficial for people to take PWO that do suffer from chronic pain.

After my workout, I sat in the locker room as I usually do and had a small snack. It's also a good opportunity to check out all the 70+ year old men that walk back and forth in the locker room naked for no reason. So I proceeded to have a snack pack of Ritz cheese cracker sandwiches and I think it took me 10 minutes to eat the six cracker sandwiches. I have noticed that Vicaine reduces my appetite pretty significantly. At the same time, I was pretty hyper-focused and ended up staring at the locker in front of me, and of course the naked old men when they made their way back around.

Needless to say, I will not be taking this again with a fully dosed PWO, and I may not even use it at all for lifting sessions. This will require a bit more experimentation...so we shall see. Today I have decided will be a day off from taking Vicaine, the good news is that I don't feel like I am withdrawing from anything and I am not reaching for the bottle as if I need to take one.

LOL your a trip bro. Next time you take it Ricky try it first thing in the morning with just a strong cup of coffee at 2-3 caps. The Flmodifinil is funny because you don't really feel it but its strong. I think a little caffeine is fine to take with it but I wouldn't use other stims with it.

 

[Ricky10]

LOL your a trip bro. Next time you take it Ricky try it first thing in the morning with just a strong cup of coffee at 2-3 caps. The Flmodifinil is funny because you don't really feel it but its strong. I think a little caffeine is fine to take with it but I wouldn't use other stims with it.

Yup, that is what Mike suggested. Just a bit of caffeine if desired..

 

[Cscott622]

Im in

 

[Ricky10]

The plan for tomorrow morning will be 2 caps at once upon waking, not sure what I am going to be adding yet for an additional caffeine source, but it will only be one as opposed to 3 various products like I have done with my prior experimention and my 1 cap dosage. I have not had any coffee in my house for over a year, so that is not an option right off tomorrow morning anyway. I have quite a variety of stims at this time, so it makes it hard to decide. I am thinking something on the lighter side like Myokem Pyroxamine, or OG PES Norcodrene...we shall see. I can tell you it won't be Scizophrenic Psycho...haha!

 

[rowz4broz]

brotha stop at dd and get yourself some good old pumpkin coffee :1244:

 

[ELROCK]

Yeah, dude just go with a coffee, shot of espresso or 150mg of caffeine powder. A Monster Ultra Zero may be more up your alley.

 

[Ricky10]

brotha stop at dd and get yourself some good old pumpkin coffee :1244:

Damn, I should have stopped and bought some coffee when I was out! I am more of a dark roast full bodied Starbucks kind of guy though. Mmmmm..

Yeah, dude just go with a coffee, shot of espresso or 150mg of caffeine powder. A Monster Ultra Zero may be more up your alley.

I essentially went with caffeine powder (the current Alphamine) which is only 125mg caffeine, and one Myokem Pyroxamine which only has 100mg caffeine. Hey...baby steps! I took this along with my 2 caps of Vicaine as I had planned, and I don't think at all that this combo was too much stimulation for me.

This stuff is no joke though and I felt really good. I realize this product is quite different, but 2 capsules certainly had more of a profound impact on my mood/psyche than OG Detonate, any dose of Adderall or Dexedrine I have ever taken, or Oxycodone. It's been so long since I have had Craze, but I would say it is also more powerful than that. OG Stim-X was more powerful in terms of how long it lasts, and it induced more euphoria as well as get up and go energy. 2 caps of Vicaine certainly has some respectable euphoric attributes, but I can be completely content just doing nothing after taking it...which isn't really a bad thing. It seems to hit serotonin and dopamine receptors to me, and apparently opioid..

Those who have not taken Vicaine may be curious about potential stim-D, and I am happy to report that this is not an issue at all, and I actually got really horny this morning. It truly seems like this would greatly enhance sexual pleasures. I have a fiancé, so I may just have to find someone I am interested in to test this out with...

So that was all I took for Vicaine today. I did go in for a workout about 5 hours later and had a full dosed PWO without any issues. The affects of Vicaine just kind of seemlessly faded away unnoticeably. While I was again not hungry at all post dosage of Vicaine, I came home from my workout with my appetite fully intact and had a box of macaroni and cheese as well as a whole rotisserie chicken.

While my experience on 2 Vicaine was quite nice, I don't necessarily think that I have to feel that fun. I seem to respond quite well to 1 capsule at a time for my purposes, so I will probably go with that for the time being. 1 capsule in the morning and 1 capsule in the afternoon, while also having skip days as recommended. I am pleasantly surprised at how potent these are, and I feel that the price is much more justified as a result.

 

[Ricky10]

Try to keep your Vicaine use to max 3x per week.

Well this seems to be true. Last night before work, I ended up taking 1 Vicaine with 1 Oxymax XT, along with Alphamine and 1 scoop of BS War (I know...I'm bad...just keeping it real though.) I figured I would go back up a bit with the stim consumption since I was only intending to take 2 pills total throughout my night. Honestly, I did not feel that much other than a feeling or calmness so I took another Vicaine before actually leaving for work and things definitely improved. I was actually looking forward to work on my drive in which rarely happens (like never), so that tells me that my mood was certainly lifted.

I ended up taking 2 more Vicaine during the remainder of my shift and I truly felt kind of flat compared to how it had been hitting me with my prior experiences. It seems that I definitely need another day or two off at this point..

 

[Mike Arnold]

You know what I was thinking, Ricky? With the dosages and number of stims you take on a regular basis, I am wondering if you are experiencing some degree of adrenal burnout. It wouldn't be at all surprising considering your habits. Even caffeine alone can cause adrenal fatigue if someone takes too much, too often...and you are far beyond that...stacking multiple powerful stims, multiple times per day.

Just an observation.

 

[Ricky10]

You know what I was thinking, Ricky? With the dosages and number of stims you take on a regular basis, I am wondering if you are experiencing some degree of adrenal burnout. It wouldn't be at all surprising considering your habits. Even caffeine alone can cause adrenal fatigue if someone takes too much, too often...and you are far beyond that...stacking multiple powerful stims, multiple times per day.

Just an observation.

Oh, I hear ya! Then you have those who believe that adrenal fatigue/burnout does not exist. Apparently it is not scientifically proven. If it does exist, I probably have it to some degree for sure. I know I have a higher tolerance to stims/caffeine than most people, but I have seen others on this board that are way worse than me. The good sign is that I can still feel my stims...when they don't work anymore, you know you are in trouble. This actually happened to me with the Original Stim-X. I took it for 2 or 3 consecutive months and I was in summer college classes, lifting, jogging, partying non-stop, and definitely not sleeping enough. One morning the magic ended, and the pills stopped turning me into a machine. That was not fun to recover from, and it felt like adrenal burnout was exactly what was going on.

 

[Ricky10]

As far as Vicaine goes, I took like one day or night off and took it the past couple days. I will just talk about today as it is still fresh in my head.

Let's just say I woke up and had a moderate amount of stims (haha) and 1 Vicaine, as I am back to feeling that 1 pill dosing is quite effective. Though I can definitely see how 2 would be the sweet spot. So yeah, I was feeling in pretty good spirits this morning, motivated, horny, and looking forward to going into the gym just before noon. I took a lighter stim PWO and was feeling OK in the gym and then dosed another pill of Vicaine mid workout because I wanted to give it another shot during a workout. This did not particularly improve my mentality in the gym today either. I don't know, it just does not seem to be the thing for me during a lifting session.

The good news is that I had some errands to run after the gym and I found myself in a much better mood for doing those tasks, which I usually hate. You know, going to Walmart and a few other stores while battling the weekend crowds. It didn't phase me a bit, and I actually enjoyed doing some of these otherwise boring tasks. People did not annoy me nearly as much as they normally do either. Another example of the calmness and improved well being popping up again.

 

[ELROCK]

As far as Vicaine goes, I took like one day or night off and took it the past couple days. I will just talk about today as it is still fresh in my head.

Let's just say I woke up and had a moderate amount of stims (haha) and 1 Vicaine, as I am back to feeling that 1 pill dosing is quite effective. Though I can definitely see how 2 would be the sweet spot. So yeah, I was feeling in pretty good spirits this morning, motivated, horny, and looking forward to going into the gym just before noon. I took a lighter stim PWO and was feeling OK in the gym and then dosed another pill of Vicaine mid workout because I wanted to give it another shot during a workout. This did not particularly improve my mentality in the gym today either. I don't know, it just does not seem to be the thing for me during a lifting session.

The good news is that I had some errands to run after the gym and I found myself in a much better mood for doing those tasks, which I usually hate. You know, going to Walmart and a few other stores while battling the weekend crowds. It didn't phase me a bit, and I actually enjoyed doing some of these otherwise boring tasks. People did not annoy me nearly as much as they normally do either. Another example of the calmness and improved well being popping up again.

Yeah, I don't use it pre-workout (that's what cheap pres are for). I use this mainly for work. I do use like it too when I have a bunch of errands to do. It can make boring tasks more enjoyable for sure.

 

[Ricky10]

Update:
I must admit I have not been doing so well with taking days off, but there have been contributing circumstances. The day after my prior post, I lost power for 5 days due to a storm. That does not often happen to us here in Maine, and it had me quite pissed off as time went on. The first few days, I took one or two caps per day and I was less annoyed with the inconveniences and frustrations that come with power loss. I then had to go to work the next few nights and have averaged about 3 caps per night shift. It made cleaning up for work in hideously cold water by candle and flash light a little more tolerable and less frustrating. Essentially I turned to Vicaine to make myself feel better in not so fun circumstances....it worked. Of note, I did find myself having slight memory issues at work...such as forgetting names of people that I indirectly work with but certainly should readily remember.

So now I have possibly put myself into a position where withdrawal symptoms from tianeptine could be an issue. I will probably take 1 cap per day for a day or two (wean) and then take some time off. Hopeful that things go smoothly..

 

[ELROCK]

Sounds more like a possible unwanted side effect, but not withdrawal.

I noticed some memory issues when taking tianeptine sodium and sulphate solo but never with Vicaine for some reason.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Update:
I must admit I have not been doing so well with taking days off, but there have been contributing circumstances. The day after my prior post, I lost power for 5 days due to a storm. That does not often happen to us here in Maine, and it had me quite pissed off as time went on. The first few days, I took one or two caps per day and I was less annoyed with the inconveniences and frustrations that come with power loss. I then had to go to work the next few nights and have averaged about 3 caps per night shift. It made cleaning up for work in hideously cold water by candle and flash light a little more tolerable and less frustrating. Essentially I turned to Vicaine to make myself feel better in not so fun circumstances....it worked. Of note, I did find myself having slight memory issues at work...such as forgetting names of people that I indirectly work with but certainly should readily remember.

So now I have possibly put myself into a position where withdrawal symptoms from tianeptine could be an issue. I will probably take 1 cap per day for a day or two (wean) and then take some time off. Hopeful that things go smoothly..

You won't have any withdrawal. Tons of people have used 2-3 caps every day for 5-6 weeks and ALL of them publicly posted that they had zero withdrawal. The only time it really becomes an issue is when someone starts using it multiple times daily at a higher dose...because then they drastically increase the amount of time the compound is active in their system. Once daily use only allows tianeptine to stay active for a few hours.

Even the research shows that once daily use doesn't cause withdrawal...but all the people that start using high doses multiple times daily will experience withdrawal after extended use. You'll be fine.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Sounds more like a possible unwanted side effect, but not withdrawal.

I noticed some memory issues when taking tianeptine sodium and sulphate solo but never with Vicaine for some reason.

That's because Vicaine contains a bunch of nootropic compounds shown to enhance cognituve function, such as sunifiram, flmodafinil, choline, caffeine, teacrine, etc.

 

[Ricky10]

You won't have any withdrawal. Tons of people have used 2-3 caps every day for 5-6 weeks and ALL of them publicly posted that they had zero withdrawal. The only time it really becomes an issue is when someone starts using it multiple times daily at a higher dose...because then they drastically increase the amount of time the compound is active in their system. Once daily use only allows tianeptine to stay active for a few hours.

Even the research shows that once daily use doesn't cause withdrawal...but all the people that start using high doses multiple times daily will experience withdrawal after extended use. You'll be fine.

Thanks...that is good to know!
I was reading that people should not go over 12.5mg dosed 3 times a day of tianeptine...so that kind of freaked me out. People were talking about withdrawal symptoms of anxiety...but they did not specify how long they were taking it.

I think I recall somebody on the AM boards stating that they bought bulk tianeptine and experienced withdrawal symptoms from that, but never had any issues with Vicaine. Is there something in Vicaine that offsets or prevents this?

 

[Godstrength]

I've used it daily (the pm version) and didnt have any issues.

 

[Ricky10]

I've used it daily (the pm version) and didnt have any issues.

Cool...good to know!

 

[Godstrength]

Cool...good to know!

Yeah man, honestly had more issues when I stopped taking kratom

 

[Ricky10]

Yeah man, honestly had more issues when I stopped taking kratom

Haha...
Well I just happened to get picked to log a Kratom product as well. Not sure when that starts

 

[muree]

really good log.. have been interested in this product.. subbed

 

[Ricky10]

really good log.. have been interested in this product.. subbed

Thank you, I am glad to see that there is some interest in my experience and the product..

 

[Mike Arnold]

Thanks...that is good to know!
I was reading that people should not go over 12.5mg dosed 3 times a day of tianeptine...so that kind of freaked me out. People were talking about withdrawal symptoms of anxiety...but they did not specify how long they were taking it.

I think I recall somebody on the AM boards stating that they bought bulk tianeptine and experienced withdrawal symptoms from that, but never had any issues with Vicaine. Is there something in Vicaine that offsets or prevents this?

Without knowing how much tianeptine this person was using...and how often, its impossible to make a comparison. The bottom line is that if someone takes a high enough dose multiple times daily, they will have problems. Once daily doesn't keep the compound active long enough to cause any sort of significant withdrawal...unless the dose is very high.

Vicaine has built-in limitations (in terms of total tianeptine dose) because of its stimulant content. Someone can only take so much before they get stimmed out, so it kind if takes care of itself in that regard.

Vicaine PM doesn't contain stims, but it does contain anti-dependence compounds, which have been clinically proven to prevent tolerance and dependence, while further boosting effectiveness.

 

[contact13]

I made an order yesterday and noticed the status as "on hold". Is this normal for orders in que or is the product not available?

 

[Mike Arnold]

I made an order yesterday and noticed the status as "on hold". Is this normal for orders in que or is the product not available?

Orders aren't processed over the weekend, but I'm sure it has been processed and shipped by now.

 

[contact13]

Orders aren't processed over the weekend, but I'm sure it has been processed and shipped by now.

Thank you for promptly answering my question. I very rarely try a new supplement company however you are producing a unique product line that may serve an important role in my training. I wanted to offer some feedback on the user experience with your web site and ordering process. Your payment service would not expect any payment except e-check. Again, something I never do. After accepting my payment I was sent an email stating my status as " on hold". This was initially confusing and required clarification. Now, my status is "complete". What does "complete" mean? Does that mean shipped? These my seem like minor issues but play a huge role in customer experience and trust. After spending hard earned money people want to KNOW the exact status of their order with little no ambiguity.

 

[Godstrength]

Thank you for promptly answering my question. I very rarely try a new supplement company however you are producing a unique product line that may serve an important role in my training. I wanted to offer some feedback on the user experience with your web site and ordering process. Your payment service would not expect any payment except e-check. Again, something I never do. After accepting my payment I was sent an email stating my status as " on hold". This was initially confusing and required clarification. Now, my status is "complete". What does "complete" mean? Does that mean shipped? These my seem like minor issues but play a huge role in customer experience and trust. After spending hard earned money people want to KNOW the exact status of their order with little no ambiguity.

The website accepted my card for payment with no problem.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Thank you for promptly answering my question. I very rarely try a new supplement company however you are producing a unique product line that may serve an important role in my training. I wanted to offer some feedback on the user experience with your web site and ordering process. Your payment service would not expect any payment except e-check. Again, something I never do. After accepting my payment I was sent an email stating my status as " on hold". This was initially confusing and required clarification. Now, my status is "complete". What does "complete" mean? Does that mean shipped? These my seem like minor issues but play a huge role in customer experience and trust. After spending hard earned money people want to KNOW the exact status of their order with little no ambiguity.

We take credit cards and debit cards. The vast majority of our orders are from credit cards. However, you have to enter your name in ALL CAPS or it won't go through. A pop-up does appear if you don't do this...unless you have pop-ups disabled. However we cannot change this, as it is a requirement of the merchant account...and as you probably know, getting merchant account for these kind of products is not easy...so we are fortunate just to have one.

The "on hold" part just means the payment hasn't been processed yet. When it says "complete" it means it has been. As soon as it is completed it is shipped. All orders are processed the same day orders are placed, unless it is after the office has closed, at which point it would be processed the next day. If you order on the weekend, the order will be processed Monday morning.

We haven't had a single person say they never received their product...or that they lost their money. People always get what they pay for.

 

[contact13]

Excellent and timely response! Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Ricky10]

After learning that withdrawal should not be a concern at reasonable doses, I have been much less motivated to take days off. After looking through my log, it appears that the last day I took off was 10/23. The good news is that most days that I have off from work, I just take a capsule in the morning, and then usually another in the afternoon. On work nights, I have averaged between 3-4 spaced out thru the evening, beginning with one pill while getting ready for work. Yesterday, I only took one capsule in the morning.

The morning dose, even at one capsule has been my favorite time to take this. It just really puts me in a better mind set at the start of my day, or night in those cases when I am on a work stretch. Yes, I do still take it with a stim cocktail, it has not been as much though as when I first started...usually 1 scoop of Alphamine (crystal light version), and 1 capsule OxyMax XT is common. I don't consider that too bad in the stims department.

One new side effect I have noticed so far is an increase in jaw clenching, which I am proned to anyway. I do feel there is still some negative influence on memory, including certain things like names, and recall of concepts. Maybe this is due to me not taking the recommended days off. The good news is that I have not had anymore instances of feeling off balance...not that it was all that concerning. I don't mind taking a little tumble every now and then, it usually results in a good laugh as well as a little hit of adrenaline. Sometimes I just throw myself down a small flight of stairs for these natural mood boosting benefits. Now I know that I have the Vicaine available if I determine that I have any residual pain.

I have another bottle on the way, so I guess it is safe to say that I am happy with the product. Within the next few days, I will begin logging a Kratom product which could run as short as 3-4 days depending on my required dosage of the product to achieve the desired affects. I will definitely have to dose them separately in order to feel the true affects of the Kratom, and if it turns out to be super effective/potent, I will use this as an opportunity to not use Vicaine at all. I get the impression it would not be wise to take them both at anything close to full doses.

 

[muree]

"I do feel there is still some negative influence on memory, including certain things like names, and recall of concepts."

have you experienced symptoms like the above before taking this product?

 

[Ricky10]

"I do feel there is still some negative influence on memory, including certain things like names, and recall of concepts."

have you experienced symptoms like the above before taking this product?

Yes, somewhat. I have just noticed it occurring more frequently since starting this.

 

[Mike Arnold]

"I do feel there is still some negative influence on memory, including certain things like names, and recall of concepts."

have you experienced symptoms like the above before taking this product?

Remember, there are also a lot of people (most) that notice IMPROVED cognitive function with Vicaine. This is not surprising, as it contains multiple powerful nootropics like sunifiram (1000X more potent than piracetam), fluorinated modafinil, theacrine, and caffeine, all of which have been shown to improve cognitive function/performance. Dozens of people have publicly posted that they have noticed these effects when using Vicaine (many of which are right here on this board), and places like Reddit have 100's of people (who have use the compounds in Vicaine both separately and together) saying they have experienced the same thing. Of course, there is also plenty of clinical research demonstrating this as well.

Certainly, I trust Ricky10 would never lie about his experience, but he is the first person (possibly the 2nd) I have heard say this out of the 150+ Vicaine reviews posted so far. Furthermore, there is zero clinical evidence to suggest these compounds can directly cause negative effects on cognitive function.

However, there is one possible way that Vicaine could cause this. This is acetylcholine depletion. I include a choline source in Vicaine in order to prevent this, but it is possible that Ricky10 could need more choline than the average person, as there are literally dozens of reasons why someone could be experiencing an acetylcholine deficiency. This potential side effects is only temporary and easily rectified, but before we get to the solution, let's look at what causes it in the first place in a little more detail.

Basically, acetylcholine is like gasoline for the brain, which helps power its cognitive processes. If acetylcholine production runs low, cognitive performance decreases. Acetylcholine depletion can be accompanied by fogginess, headache, difficulty thinking, and overall cognitive impairment. Nootropics in general (such as sunifiram, noopept, phenylpiracetam, etc), due to their ability to enhance cognitive function, directly increase the brains's acetylcholine requirements.

This is not a problem as long a sufficient acetylcholine is present, but if levels run low, decreased cognitive performance ensues. There are two ways to deal with this.
One, the individual can stop using nootropics for a period of time (about a week), in order to give the body time to replenish its acetylcholine levels, or he/she can supplement with additional choline (it's very inexpensive as long as the novel choline sources, such as CDP choline or Alpha GPC, are avoided) . Choline is what the body uses to make acetylcholine, so by supplementing with this natural substance the brain is provided with adequate substrate for acetylcholine production. As a result, any nootropics used are able to work to their full capacity without depleting acetylcholine stores, thereby allowing cognitive function to remain enhanced long-term. Because of this, most experts or those knowledgeable in the area of nootropics recommend that nootropics always be combined with supplemental choline.

As mentioned previously, Vicaine does contain choline (a fairly large amount), and as we can see from the 150+ posted reviews, it is generally more than sufficient for keeping people from experiencing acetylcholine deficiency. However, in Rick10's case it may not be enough. What factors might be to blame is impossible to say, but there are many reasons as to why someone could experience a deficiency of this important neurotransmitter.

I can find no other mechanism through which it would even be possible for a product such as Vicaine to cause a decrease in cognitive performance, especially being that many of the compounds it contains were specifically created to improve cognitive performance.

 

[Ricky10]

I have continued to not completely have a day off, as I have been having at least one pill a day, and I cracked open my second bottle last night. When I did my couple days of experimentation with Kratom, I did not dose them close to each other...even though I know I would have been fine. I seem to have become a bit desensitized to the the product. The “wow factor” of the first few days or week is not there, but I still get an unmistakable mood lift out of just one pill. I am sure that if I moved up to dosing 2-3 capsules at one time....I would be saying “wow” again, but I don’t really want to go there at this time. Working in some skip days could surely be advantageous, it will be most difficult for me to pass up on taking the morning dose, I really enjoy that one!

Of note, I did more experimentation taking 1 capsule concurrently with my PWO, and this has turned into a positive experience. I feel that it gives me more ability to focus on my mission in the gym, as I am better able to block out things that bother me in my life. Sometimes I can feel a bit anxious (not due to stims) or not motivated to go the gym, just because my mind will be stuck on one or two things that are bothering the shyt out of me and draining my energy. This helps me with that for sure! I have also not experienced any negative side effects when stacking this with my PWO, like I was in the beginning.

I am also better able to block out all the idiots in my gym as a result of the increased tunnel vision. My ability to pretend they don’t exist is enhanced. Inhibitions are also lowered, so you know that tool that leaves his cell phone on the floor where anyone can step on it? I am coming real close to accidentally landing a foot right on it and just keep walking. I have also found myself having no problem giving a look of disgust, while shaking my head to the 70+ crowd that does naked calisthenics in the locker room and open communal shower. It’s not that these things bother me more than usual, I just feel a decrease in social anxiety, and therefore a bit more likey to be expressive in one way or another.