Are you Natural?

[WMJA29]

People look at my picture and automatically assume that I take illegal performance enhancers. I have been natural all my life and have been studying about supplements since I was 14 years old. I've done research and seen natural herbs work better than synthetics in some studies. There is a lack of knowledge because people don't study.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

People look at my picture and automatically assume that I take illegal performance enhancers. I have been natural all my life and have been studying about supplements since I was 14 years old. I've done research and seen natural herbs work better than synthetics in some studies. There is a lack of knowledge because people don't study.

You're former NFL player Michael Ray Garvin?

 

[justhere4comm]

Welcome.

 

[Woody]

People look at my picture and automatically assume that I take illegal performance enhancers. I have been natural all my life and have been studying about supplements since I was 14 years old. I've done research and seen natural herbs work better than synthetics in some studies. There is a lack of knowledge because people don't study.

You're former NFL player Michael Ray Garvin?

 

[WMJA29]

Yes

 

[WMJA29]

I wanted to joint a forum to help change the fitness and athletic world. I recently had an interview with New England sports network about trying to get rid of illegal performance enhancers. I'm brining awareness about my supplement manual available on Amazon which teaches fitness experts and athletes how to be natural

Mod edit: There is NO advertising, linking, promoting in user profiles or signatures unless you are a sponsor.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Yes

Wow, it's great to have you here. I definitely agree that far too many people use AAS/PEDs long before they really should (high-schoolers, college kids, people just starting to workout, etc), even if they are deadset on using them at some time.

 

[hairygrandpa]

I wanted to joint a forum to help change the fitness and athletic world. I recently had an interview with New England sports network about trying to get rid of illegal performance enhancers. I'm brining awareness about my supplement manual available on Amazon which teaches fitness experts and athletes how to be natural

You mean THIS, right?

mod edit: There is NO advertising, linking, promoting in user profiles or signatures unless you are a sponsor.

 

[WMJA29]

Wow, it's great to have you here. I definitely agree that far too many people use AAS/PEDs long before they really should (high-schoolers, college kids, people just starting to workout, etc), even if they are deadset on using them at some time.

Thanks I appreciate it! Glad to be hear and help bring forth clinical and laboratory studies to help change the minds of people who are misinformed.

 

[WMJA29]

Yes

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Thanks I appreciate it! Glad to be hear and help bring forth clinical and laboratory studies to help change the minds of people who are misinformed.

Lots of us here, myself included, are big on studies and research on natural ingredients and supplements; it's good to have you here.

 

[Sparta12]

Pics with yourself and profile name or not you hehe

 

[Nac]

So, assuming this account is legit.

You havent used steroidz or anything of the like. And youve worked hard. Just to get that out of the way.

Now, you have great genetics. No doubt about that lol. Whether youve always had atheletic aesthetics, or maybe found putting on lean mass "easier" than Joe Average...the specifics are not important.

What makes me lol is that really, I dont see what youre doing as anything different than what a sponsored IFBB pro does, in principle.

An IFBB pro gets to stand on stage with the physique he has cos of the AAS, not cos of the protein of his sponsor.

Imagine an IFBB pro who claimed he has the physique he does because of his sponsors protein. We know thats bullsh1t.

Similiarly, any herbs/products/diets/etc you pimp have next to nothing to do with your own physique. Lets not pretend otherwise. Theres nothing particularly special about any product you claim to take compared to the genetics in your cells which manifest as your fantastic physique.

I lol because people will see you claim "drug free!!" and put a connection, that you perpetuate, between certain natural products you push and how you look. They wont realise that how you look is largely determined by genetics, and basic kcal/training principles.

It has jack to do with anything else. Unless AAS.

 

[WMJA29]

So, assuming this account is legit.

You havent used steroidz or anything of the like. And youve worked hard. Just to get that out of the way.

Now, you have great genetics. No doubt about that lol. Whether youve always had atheletic aesthetics, or maybe found putting on lean mass "easier" than Joe Average...the specifics are not important.

What makes me lol is that really, I dont see what youre doing as anything different than what a sponsored IFBB pro does, in principle.

An IFBB pro gets to stand on stage with the physique he has cos of the AAS, not cos of the protein of his sponsor.

Imagine an IFBB pro who claimed he has the physique he does because of his sponsors protein. We know thats bullsh1t.

Similiarly, any herbs/products/diets/etc you pimp have next to nothing to do with your own physique. Lets not pretend otherwise. Theres nothing particularly special about any product you claim to take compared to the genetics in your cells which manifest as your fantastic physique.

I lol because people will see you claim "drug free!!" and put a connection, that you perpetuate, between certain products you push and how you look. They wont realise that how you look is largely determined by genetics, and basic kcal/training principles.

It has jack to do with anything else.

If you want to know my story and see my physique since I was 12 years old you can in my first book called World's Most Jacked Athlete. When I say I've been studying about supplements since I was 14 you will read the science behind my physique and strength. Genetics do play a part but what I'm talking about in my book is something different. How to make yourself into a universal athlete. I loved the movie Universal soldier with van damme and always strived to enhance myself naturally. Is it possible to make a universal athlete legally? Yes the research is there it's just you have to search for it. My 2 books on Amazon will help you see into my mind and the legit research that I have used for over 15 years. I've always looked at myself like a scientist in an athlete's body.

 

[WMJA29]

So, assuming this account is legit.

You havent used steroidz or anything of the like. And youve worked hard. Just to get that out of the way.

Now, you have great genetics. No doubt about that lol. Whether youve always had atheletic aesthetics, or maybe found putting on lean mass "easier" than Joe Average...the specifics are not important.

What makes me lol is that really, I dont see what youre doing as anything different than what a sponsored IFBB pro does, in principle.

An IFBB pro gets to stand on stage with the physique he has cos of the AAS, not cos of the protein of his sponsor.

Imagine an IFBB pro who claimed he has the physique he does because of his sponsors protein. We know thats bullsh1t.

Similiarly, any herbs/products/diets/etc you pimp have next to nothing to do with your own physique. Lets not pretend otherwise. Theres nothing particularly special about any product you claim to take compared to the genetics in your cells which manifest as your fantastic physique.

I lol because people will see you claim "drug free!!" and put a connection, that you perpetuate, between certain natural products you push and how you look. They wont realise that how you look is largely determined by genetics, and basic kcal/training principles.

It has jack to do with anything else. Unless AAS.

 

[Nac]

Well see, I think youre going about this all wrong. At least on this forum. The members here tend to be more discerning and skeptical.

Ive read your other posts in the anabolic section. Instead of alluding to studies and pimping your book, why not try establish some respect for your claims by discussing some of this science? Otherwise you sound like an evangelist spouting empty rhetoric.

 

[WMJA29]

Well see, I think youre going about this all wrong. At least on this forum. The members here tend to be more discerning and skeptical.

Ive read your other posts in the anabolic section. Instead of alluding to studies and pimping your book, why not try establish some respect for your claims by discussing some of this science? Otherwise you sound like an evangelist spouting empty rhetoric.

The purpose of the books are to enlighten readers about the research I have already done and the second books has a 20 page reference page with the clinical and laboratory studies to back them up. I'll give you a teaser. My supplement manual has a solution for concussions. The solution is triggering a more effective neurogenesis which is the creation of new neurons. Neurogenesis occurs because of the neurotrophic growth factors. It also controls apoptosis which is a programmed cell death. Usually this happens when humans are growing to balance out cells in the body.

I also talk about natural test boosters that can raise testosterone levels and decrease estrogen levels. In rat studies a herb mentioned in my book increased T levels up to 346% and reduced estrogen.

I also mention ecdysteroids which are plant and insect hormones. A study done at Rutgers university on the grip strength of mice showed that the plant steroids performed better than the synthetic testosterone by 3%.

That's all I will give but I have videos on YouTube and my website where im explaining some of this information. More information is in my books. You won't be disappointed bro.

 

[WMJA29]

Visit my website WMJA29.com and click on the 2nd video in the homepage. It will give you insight to what I'm trying to do.

 

[Nac]

It appears to me your presence here will be nothing more than superficial, which is unfortunate. Ho hum.

I also think we'd all agree that a herb which increases rat test is absolutely not going to determine the difference between Joe Average's physique and your own.

 

[WMJA29]

It appears to me your presence here will be nothing more than superficial, which is unfortunate. Ho hum.

I also think we'd all agree that a herb which increases rat test is absolutely not going to determine the difference between Joe Average's physique and your own.

A man who makes decisions off assumptions is a lost man. Also a man who answers a question before hearing the answer is a fool.

"Another reason rodents are used as models in medical testing is that their genetic, biological and behavior characteristics closely resemble those of humans, and many symptoms of human conditions can be replicated in mice and rats. "Rats and mice are mammals that share many processes with humans and are appropriate for use to answer many research questions," said Jenny Haliski, a representative for the National Institutes of Health (NIH) Office of Laboratory Animal Welfare"

 

[muscleupcrohn]

A man who makes decisions off assumptions is a lost man. Also a man who answers a question before hearing the answer is a fool.

"Another reason rodents are used as models in medical testing is that their genetic, biological and behavior characteristics closely resemble those of humans, and many symptoms of human conditions can be replicated in mice and rats. "Rats and mice are mammals that share many processes with humans and are appropriate for use to answer many research questions," said Jenny Haliski, a representative for the National Institutes of Health (NIH) Office of Laboratory Animal Welfare"

Yes, but there are many ingredients that look like absolute miracles in rodent studies, but just don't pan out in humans.

Lots of us here are quite knowledgeable and passionate about supplements, so can be a bit wary about someone coming in and trying to sell us their knowledge. Perhaps you could get our interest or help cement your knowledge by giving us some sort of excerpt about a stack you like for a certain purpose/goal; you mentioned concussions and test boosting already. You're in amazing shape, but you know that doesn't inherently make you an expert on supplements, although you very well could be an expert, so some people would like to hear some things you have to say to get a better gauge of what you know before paying money for something.

 

[WMJA29]

Yes, but there are many ingredients that look like absolute miracles in rodent studies, but just don't pan out in humans.

Lots of us here are quite knowledgeable and passionate about supplements, so can be a bit wary about someone coming in and trying to sell us their knowledge. Perhaps you could get our interest or help cement your knowledge by giving us some sort of excerpt about a stack you like for a certain purpose/goal; you mentioned concussions and test boosting already. You're in amazing shape, but you know that doesn't inherently make you an expert on supplements, although you very well could be an expert, so some people would like to hear some things you have to say to get a better gauge of what you know before paying money for something.

Ok. Understandable. Reasons why some products don't work for people.
1. Law of individual differences. Everyone metabolizes supplements differently. Some can be a hyper or hypo metabolism. Some people will need a higher dosage in order to see a benefit. Some people can see a benefit off a lower dosage.
2. Gut flora can be an issue for some people being backed up and have more bad bacteria than good. Average human being has over 700 toxins in the body some called xenoestrogens. This is especially bad for men because it acts like estrogen in the body.
3. Quality ingredients. Some products are not premium material or not standardized meaning an Extract formula which is more effective. Bioavailability can also be an issue for people not seeing results.
All of these factors need to be taken into consideration when someone is taking a supplement. All supplements work it's just finding out the issue to why it's not effective in some human beings.
They have DNA testing called pharmacogenomics which take a buccal swab to test the DNA and find out which drugs are effective for that person. I believe there is also DNA testing for vitamins and minerals just not all supplements.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Ok. Understandable. Reasons why some products don't work for people.
1. Law of individual differences. Everyone metabolizes supplements differently. Some can be a hyper or hypo metabolism. Some people will need a higher dosage in order to see a benefit. Some people can see a benefit off a lower dosage.
2. Gut flora can be an issue for some people being backed up and have more bad bacteria than good. Average human being has over 700 toxins in the body some called xenoestrogens. This is especially bad for men because it acts like estrogen in the body.
3. Quality ingredients. Some products are not premium material or not standardized meaning an Extract formula which is more effective. Bioavailability can also be an issue for people not seeing results.
All of these factors need to be taken into consideration when someone is taking a supplement. All supplements work it's just finding out the issue to why it's not effective in some human beings.
They have DNA testing called pharmacogenomics which take a buccal swab to test the DNA and find out which drugs are effective for that person. I believe there is also DNA testing for vitamins and minerals just not all supplements.

Not all supplements work, at least in any practical or relevant sense with respect to other options that are cheaper and/or more effective. For example, CEE has been shown to be essentially useless; its less effective than creatine monohydrate, and more expensive.

I think some of us would like an example of a stack or combination of ingredients that you'd recommend for some purpose, or tell us something that worked well for you that's not very common or well known. People here tend to be pretty well informed, so it may take a little more than usual to get our interest, especially if you want us to buy something; make us want to hear more and buy your books.

 

[WMJA29]

Not all supplements work, at least in any practical or relevant sense with respect to other options that are cheaper and/or more effective. For example, CEE has been shown to be essentially useless; its less effective than creatine monohydrate, and more expensive.

I think some of us would like an example of a stack or combination of ingredients that you'd recommend for some purpose, or tell us something that worked well for you that's not very common or well known. People here tend to be pretty well informed, so it may take a little more than usual to get our interest, especially if you want us to buy something; make us want to hear more and buy your books.

Creatine is not useless and in the study what were they looking for? See I've looked at actual research and some of them are flawed. Years ago Media came out and stated that multi vitamins are ineffective. When you look at the actual study they used 3 yes 3 compounds. Vitamin b12 Vitamin C and Selenium and called it a multi vitamin. Also they used a low dosage and poor quality. This study was determined to fail because the scientists were very biased. Now any micro or macro nutrient is effective and it was created for a purpose. What you are saying is the bioavailability of that creatine. Creatine is effective and works it's just the way they made the CEE which wasn't as effective or bioavailable as Creatine monohydrate.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Creatine is not useless and in the study what were they looking for? See I've looked at actual research and some of them are flawed. Years ago Media came out and stated that multi vitamins are ineffective. When you look at the actual study they used 3 yes 3 compounds. Vitamin b12 Vitamin C and Selenium and called it a multi vitamin. Also they used a low dosage and poor quality. This study was determined to fail because the scientists were very biased. Now any micro or macro nutrient is effective and it was created for a purpose. What you are saying is the bioavailability of that creatine. Creatine is effective and works it's just the way they made the CEE which wasn't as effective or bioavailable as Creatine monohydrate.

I wasn't saying that creatine wasn't effective, just CEE; monohydrate is great, although I suppose you can lump them both under the umbrella of creatine supplements, of which only some will be effective. On a similar note, arginine isn't very good on its own, but Arginine Silicate Inisitol (Nitroigine) is more effective, and so are arginine peptides, but citrulline is better than arginine for many of us athletes, and, similarly, citrulline peptides seem to be better than arginine peptides, so while most supplements can work or be useful by improving them, increasing absorption/bioavailability/etc, not all of them are worth using if there are better options out there at the same price, or similarly effective options at a cheaper price.

I do enjoy this discussion though.

Care to give any examples of lesser-known ingredients you have had success with yourself? Give us something that really makes us want to buy your books.

 

[WMJA29]

I wasn't saying that creatine wasn't effective, just CEE; monohydrate is great, although I suppose you can lump them both under the umbrella of creatine supplements, of which only some will be effective. On a similar note, arginine isn't very good on its own, but Arginine Silicate Inisitol (Nitroigine) is more effective, and so are arginine peptides, but citrulline is better than arginine for many of us athletes, and, similarly, citrulline peptides seem to be better than arginine peptides, so while most supplements can work or be useful by improving them, increasing absorption/bioavailability/etc, not all of them are worth using if there are better options out there at the same price, or similarly effective options at a cheaper price.

I do enjoy this discussion though.

Care to give any examples of lesser-known ingredients you have had success with yourself? Give us something that really makes us want to buy your books.

Awesome now we are on the same page ?

 

[WMJA29]

Awesome now we are on the same page ?

I'll post some pages from my book.

 

[WMJA29]

I wasn't saying that creatine wasn't effective, just CEE; monohydrate is great, although I suppose you can lump them both under the umbrella of creatine supplements, of which only some will be effective. On a similar note, arginine isn't very good on its own, but Arginine Silicate Inisitol (Nitroigine) is more effective, and so are arginine peptides, but citrulline is better than arginine for many of us athletes, and, similarly, citrulline peptides seem to be better than arginine peptides, so while most supplements can work or be useful by improving them, increasing absorption/bioavailability/etc, not all of them are worth using if there are better options out there at the same price, or similarly effective options at a cheaper price.

I do enjoy this discussion though.

Care to give any examples of lesser-known ingredients you have had success with yourself? Give us something that really makes us want to buy your books.

 

[WMJA29]

 

[WMJA29]

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Cool. I actually use boswellia (standardized for AKBA) and bromelain, and they both have a good amount of research on them:

Take bromelain for example:

Bromelain accounts for many therapeutic benefits like the treatment of angina pectoris, bronchitis, sinusitis, surgical trauma, and thrombophlebitis, debridement of wounds, and enhanced absorption of drugs, particularly antibiotics. It also relieves osteoarthritis, diarrhea, and various cardiovascular disorders. Bromelain also possesses some anticancerous activities and promotes apoptotic cell death.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3529416/

We conclude that bromelain may be effective in ameliorating physical symptoms and improving general well-being in otherwise healthy adults suffering from mild knee pain in a dose-dependant manner.

[ur]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12587686[/url]

Based on this study, 600 GDU bromelain given once daily in acute tendon injury at a dosage of 7 mg/kg promoted healing by stimulating tenocyte proliferation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20623610

This trial documents that the proteolytic pineapple enzyme Bromelain-POS is widely used in the treatment of young children diagnosed with acute sinusitis in Germany and that the use of proteolytic enzymes can benefit such patients.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15796206

I've been thinking of picking up some curcumin (with enhanced absorption) as well, so thanks for reminding me it's time for me to stock up on some of these things, haha (edit: just picked up some 5-Loxin Boswellia, Bromelain, and Curcumin).

 

[gannicus419]

I personally think anabolic steroids are demonized in our culture. And the detrimental effects are blown out of proportion. Growing up I used to think that steroids would ruin your hormones/body forever.
Now I know better. If your educated and don't abuse it. It can be run very safely.
*Brb going to inject some deca. *

 

[BlackTiger22]

this thread is lit

 

[Rad83]

Naturals and fitness enthusiasts of all types are bombarded and fed up with; "Natural, safe herbs, etc." sold at GNC, VS...that will give them 'steroid like gains'

 

[corsaking]

The purpose of the books are to enlighten readers about the research I have already done and the second books has a 20 page reference page with the clinical and laboratory studies to back them up. I'll give you a teaser. My supplement manual has a solution for concussions. The solution is triggering a more effective neurogenesis which is the creation of new neurons. Neurogenesis occurs because of the neurotrophic growth factors. It also controls apoptosis which is a programmed cell death. Usually this happens when humans are growing to balance out cells in the body.

I also talk about natural test boosters that can raise testosterone levels and decrease estrogen levels. In rat studies a herb mentioned in my book increased T levels up to 346% and reduced estrogen.

I also mention ecdysteroids which are plant and insect hormones. A study done at Rutgers university on the grip strength of mice showed that the plant steroids performed better than the synthetic testosterone by 3%.

That's all I will give but I have videos on YouTube and my website where im explaining some of this information. More information is in my books. You won't be disappointed bro.

sounds very much like a commercial

 

[Fasted]

If this thread is the conduit to great discussion, then awesome. If it's an ad, boo. Either way, there's been some great discussion already and I hope the self advertising stays at bay.

I'm not against people using steroids, but people lying about it is ruining the fitness world. There's naturally jacked dudes who can't convince folks they aren't juicing, and dudes using roids and still looking like crap. Too much misinformation.

I think the point earlier about gut flora is a good one. You can have all the best nutrients, but if your body isn't absorbing them they all are for naught.

Anyways, interesting thread so far. Subscwibed.

 

[Gorgoroth]

Subbed.

 

[Stray_Cat]

The purpose of the books are to enlighten readers about the research I have already done.

Gem of a thread and welcome aboard.
I've been researching supps/aas/herbs, both in published form, and as an (unwitting guinea pig-like many of us) since 2002. Really difficult to find well laid out interconnected information in a condensed form, and harder to figure out why a supplement didn't work for me. From what I've read on this thread and excerpts of your book, there are great answers, covering almost every base (might be more bases lol). Great way to educate on other effective means of achieving physical goals, within limits, other than aas (not always appropriate). Looking forward to reading more of your insights.

 

[pulsefit]

Most of us know about ecdys, boswella, and bromelain. Some of the better joint supplements that help with inflammation have boswella and turmeric at good doses with something to help absorption. What sort of doses did u take that you found effective?

I personally have not had great luck with any natural test boosters besides libido. I do like ashwaghanda but that's more on the anti e side. Only way to prove things is with bloods and I've done that and they've all done squat for me.

Now I'm 42 with crappy test levels my only choice was to go with doctors prescribed trt. It has worked wonders. I don't see a problem with peds if they're monitored and done right. It's the bros taking huge doses sometimes 10x more than what a doc would prescribe.