ma70's Iron Legion Invictus Log (Unsponsored)

ma70

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Summer is pretty busy so I definitely will not be able to be as detailed as I usually like to be. This ingredient is pretty old after doing a lot of research, and since it's backed by both CEL and Iron Legion (as well as a LOT of anecdote) I am sure it will be effective. Either way, I'm very sensitive to both estro and cortisol sides (almost every AI/cortisol control I've tried roasts my joints easily). Doing some research on PHF, etc. I am told that this doesn't really crush cortisol and it is supposed to just negate the negative effects of cortisol according to Patrick Arnold (don't quote me on this for sure), so I chose this instead of all the other options out there (not that there is anything wrong with them, but I don't need my cortisol dropped). I find unsponsored logs with minimal stacking to be the best on giving actual information on supplements, especially ones that aren't currently popular and used by many people, so hopefully this log can help people on the fence, etc.

My supplement "stack" for this log will be the following:

SNS Caffeine (200mg)
SNS Creatine (5g)
Vitamin D3 + K2
Fish Oil (6g for this log, I usually run this at 2-3g)
EvoMuse Gut Health
Iron Legion Invictus (1 mL)

I will be doing a Texas Method style of working out as it's just the program I have currently been doing for now and I'm sticking to it to see any changes. I'll comment on effects on sleep, mood, fat/weight loss, joints, etc.

Maintenance Calories (specifically on a 3 day/week program): ~2900-3100
Caloric Aim (every day, no carb cycling or anything special): ~2300 calories, will adjust if weight loss is too quick
Current Weight: 202.8
BF: No idea. In good lighting on a normal day I can see my top 4 abs easily.

My diet style is mostly the same thing every day. Sweet Potatoes/White Rice, Chicken Breast, Lean Beef, Broccoli, and protein shakes (PES Select/MyProtein). I follow intermittent fasting (12/12) in which I am fasted when I workout, and my interval is usually between when I workout and 12 hours later.

IronLegion

Today starts my first dose. I am doing some fasted cardio because the gym is closed today. I will be dosing 1mL in the mornings post-workout (or just in the morning) on my upper chest/shoulders/clavicle/neck region.

BOTTLE 1 FINAL REVIEW:
Okay, I've already rambled on in the thread enough so first, we will start with lists.

PROS:
- After 1.5 weeks, I've had the best sleep of my life. This is superior to the old sleep stack combo I had which consisted of 100mg L-Theanine, 500mg Relora, and 100mg 5-HTP
- Feelings of relaxation (sort of absent minded kind of feeling)
- Possible body composition improvements
- Impulse/hunger control while in a decent deficit

CONS:
- Lethargy. As expected of DHEA/DHEA metabolites, a person who's "relatively young" (26) should generally feel lethargy from these kinds of compounds
- Acne. At first, I thought this may have been in my head until I realized there are some bits of info that say that while this may lower total test, it increases the amount of free test. Getting acne on my chest and back are very rare. Even random pimples on my legs.

I went down from around 202 to 196 in 3.5 weeks (the bottle lasted 24ish days). Combined with the fact that my diet was not 100% on point on weekends and the fact that I still managed to get some good strength progression out of the Texas Method, this is pretty nice. I recommend this for people who have a lot of visceral fat, or for people with low diet control in regards to cravings. I wouldn't call this appetite suppression....but it just makes me think less about the "good foods" I am missing out on. I've tried intermittent fasting (which I still do) and eating lots of veggies with lots of water, but this supplement definitely made the difference in regards to next level hunger/craving control.
 

ma70

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Today's workout went normal as expected. Nothing to really notice in terms of anything, other than the fact that I peed a lot of water out yesterday and now I am sitting at 198.8. It's only been a day, so well.....there's nothing to see yet.
 

ma70

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I have only been on this for 3 days at standard dosage, but one thing I may notice is that my appetite is GREATLY decreased. This is obvious to me because I'm naturally always a hungry person, even eating at maintenance. I'm eating below maintenance and not feeling hungry, which is NOT normal at all. Is it Invictus? Maybe, maybe not. Also, I'm peeing a lot. It seems a lot of supplements I try these days make me pee, haha.
 
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ma70

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Today was the recovery day of the Texas Method, so you can guess that it was an easy workout with no hiccups. No joint issues, and nothing weird yet. My appetite just isn't what it used to be, and I'm pretty happy about that. Not sure if there's supposed to be an appetite suppressing effect with this particular compound.
 
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ma70

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Weighed in at 199.8 this morning. Not sure of any actual fat loss yet, and right now it seems like my water weight is fluctuating a lot. It hasn't even been a week yet, so I don't expect my "diet" or the supplement to actually show massive amounts of fat loss or anything like that.

Some random notes are it's harder for me to wake up, which means I'm having very restful sleep as a result of cortisol being reduced. Also random, but my acne is acting up, but this can be coincidence. Joints feel normal for now, and I'm definitely sensitive to low cortisol sides so we can see what's going on pretty quickly.
 

ma70

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Today was Intensity day of the Texas Method. Nailed all 3 PR's (Squat, Deadlift, Overhead Press). As expected on a cut, it looks like I should be stalling in about 1-2 weeks so I'm going to try and regulate the Monday volume to make sure I don't. Nothing else to comment on. Joints are still feeling strong, fat loss isn't noticeable yet (but it's only been 4 days, so who's expecting anything? haha)
 

ma70

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Did some overeating this weekend which probably set me back ever so slightly, but I took advantage of it by killing "Volume" day. All the lifts were performed pretty well and I'll be eating right for the rest of the week. No new side effects.
 

ma70

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Waking up at 198.6 today. Starting to feel more tired/lethargic throughout the days but this is probably due to the caloric deficit rather than the supplement. The "acne" issue was just temporary and probably had nothing to do with Invictus, and my joints still feel pretty normal. Today is the recovery workout for the Texas Method, so it's an easy day today.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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I noticed lethargy on invictus too and i was able to conclude it was invictus however it makes sense.. it reduces cortisol, cortisol is whats responsible for waking us up in the morning and keeping us up. Makes sense! However the leaning invictus gave me was to die for and i said fook it im not dropping it. So here's my suggestion. Split the dose into a half or quarters. I switched to .5ml after my work outs (I work out in am) and .5 ml pre bed. I've noticed deeper sleep, substantially less lethargy, enhanced leaning with dosing pre bed and not sure if it correlates but just an overall calmness which started once half dosing was put into action.
 

ma70

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I noticed lethargy on invictus too and i was able to conclude it was invictus however it makes sense.. it reduces cortisol, cortisol is whats responsible for waking us up in the morning and keeping us up. Makes sense! However the leaning invictus gave me was to die for and i said fook it im not dropping it. So here's my suggestion. Split the dose into a half or quarters. I switched to .5ml after my work outs (I work out in am) and .5 ml pre bed. I've noticed deeper sleep, substantially less lethargy, enhanced leaning with dosing pre bed and not sure if it correlates but just an overall calmness which started once half dosing was put into action.
I also workout in the morning and I use 1mL dose post-workout. I'm aware that if I dose it pre-bed it will definitely help me get better sleep, although to sleep might be "too" good and make it hard to wake up so early.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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I also workout in the morning and I use 1mL dose post-workout. I'm aware that if I dose it pre-bed it will definitely help me get better sleep, although to sleep might be "too" good and make it hard to wake up so early.
I would dose .5ml after work out and .5ml 4-6 hours later the full 1ml dose at once could be whats doing it. .5ml is strong as is can't imagine take a full ML in the morning i'd have no energy.
 

ma70

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I would dose .5ml after work out and .5ml 4-6 hours later the full 1ml dose at once could be whats doing it. .5ml is strong as is can't imagine take a full ML in the morning i'd have no energy.
Yeah, it's mostly for convenience. I may play with the dosing a bit soon.
 
paul56778

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I would dose .5ml after work out and .5ml 4-6 hours later the full 1ml dose at once could be whats doing it. .5ml is strong as is can't imagine take a full ML in the morning i'd have no energy.
I do half a ml in the AM either 7 or 9 and other in night at 9-10pm pre bed, 0.5ml split, i find this is working well, no tiredness or lethargy.
 

ma70

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Noticing really, really deep sleep and lethargy. I haven't had sleep this good in a long time (compared to my old sleep stack of Relora+L-Theanine+5-HTP)
 

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I also noticed good leaning out and really good sleep which is unusual for me. I had a good mental focus as well and was able to stick to my cutting diet very well on invictus. I am an a.m workout person and took .5 ml post workout and then again at 6 p.m. Great product!
 
IronLegion

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Noticing really, really deep sleep and lethargy. I haven't had sleep this good in a long time (compared to my old sleep stack of Relora+L-Theanine+5-HTP)
I was a huge fan of Relora and Ashwagandha...but, nothing has touched the effects I've seen from Invictus.
 

ma70

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I also noticed good leaning out and really good sleep which is unusual for me. I had a good mental focus as well and was able to stick to my cutting diet very well on invictus. I am an a.m workout person and took .5 ml post workout and then again at 6 p.m. Great product!
Yeah, a "side effect" from Invictus is my hunger/craving control is....well......controlled. I'm not gonna say I'm noticing ridiculous fat loss like some of the other loggers were, but maybe I have less visceral fat than them, or maybe my idea of "crazy fat loss" is different from theirs. I am definitely leaning out, but I attribute this to diet mostly. We'll see as time goes on. It's pretty obvious to me this ingredient is fairly effective, but this is not a miracle supplement (I mean....none are)
 

ma70

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Diet has been on point for this week. Exactly 1 week ago I was 199.8 and today I am 198.8. Doing a slow and steady deficit and hoping that Invictus helps with body comp more. Although on Saturday and Sunday of last week my diet was off by a bit where I feel like I ate at maintenance or higher than that. So something tells me this current calorie deficit I have been in might have caused 1.5-2 lbs of fat loss per week as I originally expected, but I still have a social life so it's not easy to be 100% on diet 24/7. Today will be intensity day which I will comment on later if I have gotten weaker or not.

The best part of this diet is I have no cravings, great sleep, and so far, I've been recovering well too.
 

ma70

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Ok so I just finished progression/intensity day and nailed all of them. Also, on a side note, I just want to talk about random theory with Invictus. As far as I've also noticed (which is no longer in my head) is that my body seems to run hotter. I remember someone saying that 7-keto and b-AET convert back and forth with each other, and I know that 7-keto is thermogenic in a caloric deficit so this sort of makes sense. No negative cortisol sides for now though. Joints still feel solid at 1mL daily.
 
paul56778

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My knees have started getting tender and sore just walking up stairs.
 

ma70

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This is day 19
I believe I'm around a week behind you. I do notice that while my joints don't hurt, I am more sore after workouts and I am accustomed to high frequency for the most part (I used to Bench/Squat/Deadlift and other stuff 3x a week). Not sure how to explain this so I'll probably go read up more on Cortisol and it's reactions.

I was 198.2 even in a fed state/full stomach yesterday, but I ended up having cravings and ate a Chicken Parm sandwich from my favorite italian place near me. I woke up this morning at 199.2. Glycogen/water of course, but I'm being honest with the log. Thankfully this "cheat" was only ~1k cals, instead of the full blown cheats I've done in the past. Invictus is helping me control that part well.
 

ma70

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Research shows that cortisol does effect hunger/cravings. I've never managed to use a Cortisol controller this long to notice the benefits (because of the joint discomfort it caused me). Some shameless copy/pasting here because I'm too lazy to type it out myself.

There are two things required for fat loss – a calorie deficit and hormonal balance. Cortisol impacts hormonal balance, but it also impacts calories. Cortisol impacts several hormones responsible for hunger and cravings. These include leptin, insulin, and neuropeptide Y (NPY).

The command and control center of your metabolism is an area of the brain called the hypothalamus. This is the center of your metabolic sensor/thermostat. This area needs to "hear" the signals being sent by peripheral hormones like leptin and insulin, both of which shut down hunger in normal circumstances. Chronically elevated cortisol levels cause irritation in the hypothalamus leading to downregulation of hormone receptors inducing hormone resistance.

Imagine walking into a room with a strong odor and covering your nose and mouth, only to realize later you can no longer smell the odor. This is what cortisol does to the brain. It muffles its satiety sensing mechanism. This makes it far less likely you will feel satisfied from meals and far more likely you'll eat more at current and future meals.
Cortisol & Cravings

Cortisol is also involved in cravings. By mechanisms not fully understood, cortisol along with other stress hormones (i.e. the catecholamines), increases desire for more palatable, calorie dense foods. It does this while simultaneously shutting off the goal oriented centers of the brain and ramping up the reward centers of the brain. This is a bad combo if you want to stick to your diet. In other words, there's a reason we want a triple decker boo-boo burger when we're stressed rather than the chicken and broccoli already prepared in the refrigerator. Cortisol may be part of that reason.
I double checked the article with other sources and it sounds like it adds up. This is why dieting has been much easier on my end, and no joint discomfort is a mega plus. Maybe later on in the run it might show up, but for now, it's not as bad as when I used Reduce XT (NOT saying it is a bad product, I'm just a wimp. Most AIs and Cort Reducers destroy my joints instantly) for whatever reason that is.
 

ma70

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Danes

So I don't have to keep you updated via PM, LOL.
 

ma70

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The lethargy is nuts on this for me. I really may consider splitting this dosage. As for other news, body comp seems to be benefitting considering the small amount of weight I am dropping weekly, but this may be due to water manipulation so we'll see at the end how things go. I plan on running Invictus for 8 weeks as long as it doesn't kill my joints.
 
nostrum420

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The lethargy is nuts on this for me. I really may consider splitting this dosage. As for other news, body comp seems to be benefitting considering the small amount of weight I am dropping weekly, but this may be due to water manipulation so we'll see at the end how things go. I plan on running Invictus for 8 weeks as long as it doesn't kill my joints.
Try splitting the doses, I bet it will help.
 
nostrum420

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It's sort of funny. I'm lethargic but I also feel extremely relaxed (think "Office Space" relaxed).
OMG, I can't wait until mine shows up!
 

ma70

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OMG, I can't wait until mine shows up!
Careful though. I feel like people see me and are starting to think I don't care about anything, especially at my job. It's sort of funny, but I'm just really...REALLY relaxed.

On a side note, body comp is looking good. I'll comment on actual weight vs fat loss for Friday's weigh in. I don't like weighing myself too often. Also, workouts have been going well and the Texas Method progression is going well. Keeping strength on a cut is very important to me so I'm enjoying this. Not hitting any PRs or anything, but that's fine with me.
 
nostrum420

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Careful though. I feel like people see me and are starting to think I don't care about anything, especially at my job. It's sort of funny, but I'm just really...REALLY relaxed.

On a side note, body comp is looking good. I'll comment on actual weight vs fat loss for Friday's weigh in. I don't like weighing myself too often. Also, workouts have been going well and the Texas Method progression is going well. Keeping strength on a cut is very important to me so I'm enjoying this. Not hitting any PRs or anything, but that's fine with me.
I'm a new dad, first kid.... I could use a more "go with the flow" attitude. I'm used to having a little more control over my own life.
 

ma70

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I'm a new dad, first kid.... I could use a more "go with the flow" attitude. I'm used to having a little more control over my own life.
Oh....sounds like this is up your alley. I am dosing 1mL all at once in the morning post workout if that means anything.
 

ma70

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Weighing in this morning at 196.6 (this is pretty good for 2 weeks in, considering on weekends my diet hasn't been 100% on point). Also feeling very sore from yesterday's workout which was considered "recovery" day. Not sure if my additional soreness is from what paul56778 was speaking of, or if my calories are just that low (even though they're the same since the log started).
 

ma70

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Today was intensity day and progression keeps happening. Also, to be clear, I am not setting PRs, but what I am doing is still continuing to ramp up to an old PR weight without stumbling along the way, which is impressive considering this is the lightest I've been in awhile, and I'm sort of feeling zoned out cause of a mix of lethargy and low calories.

The "tenderness" is definitely there though. I can attribute this to Invictus. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I probably should look into b-AET's interactions/MOA more. My joints are still holding strong.
 
IronLegion

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I would imagine you would see benefits from splitting the dose.

Sounds like it's doing well for you though!
 

ma70

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I would imagine you would see benefits from splitting the dose.

Sounds like it's doing well for you though!
Probably, but I've been dosing it this way consistently because I want the log to be as controlled as much as possible. You know what I mean? Also, for others who see this log and may want to just do one big dose (as opposed to what the majority of others do, which is split them), I want them to get some possible information/anecdote from this log.

Loving Invictus though. I don't weigh in often, but the best part about this is that my hunger is completely in control. Whether Invictus directly effects fat loss or not, this quality alone is good enough to warrant me using this for cutting.
 
nostrum420

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Probably, but I've been dosing it this way consistently because I want the log to be as controlled as much as possible. You know what I mean? Also, for others who see this log and may want to just do one big dose (as opposed to what the majority of others do, which is split them), I want them to get some possible information/anecdote from this log.

Loving Invictus though. I don't weigh in often, but the best part about this is that my hunger is completely in control. Whether Invictus directly effects fat loss or not, this quality alone is good enough to warrant me using this for cutting.
I can definitely understand wanting to try to stay as consistent as possible. Thank you for keeping such a meticulous log.
 

ma70

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One random thing to report today is not only am I feel that "tenderness" or soreness lingering, but also, my joints are starting to click more, which means what usually happens with Cort Control products is finally coming out. I'll probably end up only lasting for the 4 weeks of Invictus instead of 8 Weeks if this gets any worse, but at least I know how to incorporate this stuff during cuts now, or next time, I'll just use Joint Support products with it.
 

ma70

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Man, the sleep is so good on this, but waking up is a chore. Took me about 20 minutes this morning just to feel like I could even move in a non-zombielike fashion. Today is volume day and I'll have comments on that, but this weekend (specifically yesterday) I celebrated father's day at an all you can eat buffet so I expect to progress quite easily today due to what was an insane carb up. I estimate maybe maintenance calories or slightly above maintenance for yesterday....but my diet hasn't been perfect the entire weekend due to so many social events, but Invictus is pretty good for controlling overeating as well.
 

ma70

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Killed my workout today, but not as much as I would have liked to. The lethargy/grogginess is making mind-muscle connection/technique feel harder to pull off. Surprisingly, after I lifted today, my joints felt less "clickey" so I'm guessing the side effects on that end are pretty manageable and I may take it all the way to an 8 week run after all.
 

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