Iron Forged Nutrition Most Wanted Log (Unsponsored)

[ma70]

I've been fairly busy lately with no time to log any of the stuff I take but I finally have more free time on my hands. After trying Mass Pro Synthagen with success (standalone), I've become more interested in Ecdysterone/Laxogenin products in general. I would have never even bought IFN Most Wanted if the prices weren't a steal, so here I am with 4 bottles of it. I feel the need to log this because I think people want a standalone log of this kind of stuff that isn't sponsored and honestly, I feel that after using MPS, this stuff is best treated like an adaptogen rather than an anabolic. Anyways, here's what I'll be running:

OL Conqu3r Unleashed
SNS Noopept-XT (10mg)
Prime Nutrition Intra-MD
Vitamin D3 5000IU
ZMA
IFN Most Wanted (double dosed at 4 caps a day)

I've been running OL CU for 1 month, and Intra-MD for a few months now so I am well aware of how they effect my workouts, etc. Vitamin D and ZMA are just staples for me.

I generally workout fasted (unless you count the intra carbs) and my diet is consistent. I'll be eating at maintenance (~2900 calories) for the run to see how effective it is. I eat a very consistent diet of mostly protein shakes, chicken, broccoli, and white rice. I tend not to deviate from this because I'm a pretty hungry person and eating junk food causes insane cravings. I'm mostly expecting better recovery, as I think the supplement will be "anabolic" in the sense that it will allow me to train more. Expecting body composition changes (at a quicker rate than my normal recomp would be without it) and possible muscle fullness. To keep track of body comp, I'll mostly be eyeing it, but I will also monitor my weight/waist ratio. 1 cap of MW provides:

100mg Ecdysterone (not including the cyclodextrin complex)
50mg Laxogenin (not including the cyclodextrin complex)

Mostly interested in trying to see if the product is legit (sourcing, etc)
Mixelflick
Danes
IFN15
kboxer7

My training cycle will be focused on high frequency, compound lifts, training at least 6 days a week. Google Jim Wender's Frequency project (5/3/1 with high frequency essentially).

EDIT:

Final Thoughts
-------------------

Alright. This is going to be a long post. First, I'll summarize the basic effects I've noticed.

1) Increased vascularity
2) Increased recovery (and absolutely no DOMs after Week 2-3 and on of this run)
3) Great joint health
4) Better sleep
5) Increased strength

Main Lift Training Max Increases as of Today:
Bench Press: +15
Overhead Press: +15
Deadlift: +30
Front Squat: +20

My training experience is 3+ years, and I'm intermediate. These kinds of strength increases are pretty impressive to me considering the supposed "accumulating fatigue" I was supposed to be experiencing, because I got stronger throughout the run. Not only did I get stronger, but my form at higher percentiles got better. I've done high frequency training before, so I'd like to think this has nothing to do with "strength-skill" (lack of practice, etc). I've always based my training around the main compound lifts, so these are all well practiced except the Front Squat (I have considerable experience Front Squatting, but way more doing normal Squats).

Weight: ~206 --> 209.2
Waist Circumference: 37" --> 37"

Throughout this entire run, I had to modify my calories a bit. What I thought was my maintenance really wasn't, either due to the intensity of the program or due to the supplement helping me partition nutrients better. Initially, I dropped down to around 204 lbs, then I upped the calories. Can't say for sure, but my waist in the same as it's been the entire run (within the small range of variance) and my weight is up. It could be due to glycogen retention, or whatever, but my strength went way up so I'm pleased with the results.

My shirts are tighter, and my pants are tighter as well, and my waist is the same. I'd say that's favorable body comp.

Other Stuff:
I truly believe this is best used with higher frequency and overreaching routines (like HMA-FA). I do not think this would fit bro splits at all. Yes, a supplement is supposed to supplement your current diet/training and you should not have to modify it to see results. This is why I think that if you do not do high frequency training, then don't even bother with this stuff or you'll most likely be disappointed (unless you just like muscle pumps or something). I've used ecdysterone before, and now this. These both are supposed to work in similar ways, so it's not surprising that people dislike these two when using their normal training routines.

Also, this run was NOT cost efficient. The dosage I used was double dosing the standard product that normally costs 60-70 dollars. This makes 140 dollars a month, and 280 for two months, etc. I consider this a "time efficient" supplement, meaning it'll help your strength/gains in a short amount of time if you're willing to put in the work.

My programming was a bit off. I had to cut the run short by 2 weeks because of CNS fatigue. I monitor my resting heart rate every day, and try to keep track of my body in general (sleeping patterns, etc) and by the end of this week, I feel completely burnt out. What I will probably do next time is ramp up the intensity instead of just going all out from the very beginning, and maybe even try a 12 week run. Since the product is most noticeable at 3 weeks, I guess the best time to ramp everything up is around the 3rd week mark. Still, for a 6 week run, this stuff was amazing. I'll finish the bottles up during my deload and first week of my next training block, but this is something I'd definitely account for next time.

Those are my thoughts. Sorry I couldn't finish to the 8th week, but I tried my best. Between working a full time job, commuting for 3 hours with traffic, and an overall hectic lifestyle, I tried to pull it off. Thanks for following!

 

[Danes]

I've been fairly busy lately with no time to log any of the stuff I take but I finally have more free time on my hands. After trying Mass Pro Synthagen with success (standalone), I've become more interested in Ecdysterone/Laxogenin products in general. I would have never even bought IFN Most Wanted if the prices weren't a steal, so here I am with 4 bottles of it. I'm going to do an 8 week run (double dosed) with no other supplements involved. I feel the need to log this because I think people want a standalone log of this kind of stuff that isn't sponsored and honestly, I feel that after using MPS, this stuff is best treated like an adaptogen rather than an anabolic. Anyways, here's what I'll be running:

OL Conqu3r Unleashed
SNS Noopept-XT (10mg)
Prime Nutrition Intra-MD
Vitamin D3 5000IU
ZMA
IFN Most Wanted (4 caps split through the day before protein intake)

I generally workout fasted (unless you count the intra carbs) and my diet is consistent. I'll be eating at maintenance (~2900 calories) for the run to see how effective it is. I'm mostly expecting better recovery, as I think the supplement will be "anabolic" in the sense that it will allow me to train more. I'll be double dosing it and possibly lowering the dose as the run goes on if I feel that I don't need it as much. 4 caps is suppose to provide the following:

400mg Ecdysterone (not including the cyclodextrin complex)
200mg Laxogenin (not including the cyclodextrin complex)

Mostly interested in trying to see if the product is legit (sourcing, etc)
Mixelflick
Danes
IFN15
kboxer7

My training cycle starts December 24. It'll be focused on high frequency, compound lifts, training at least 6 days a week.

Good luck with your run and I hope MW treats you well.
I am just little bit confused because you mention you are going to run MW with no other supplements involved but you mention a list of supplements you are going to run.have you used Intra-MD and Conquer unleashed before ?

 

[kboxer7]

ma70 - appreciate the tag.

I'll be following along. Regards.

 

[ma70]

Good luck with your run and I hope MW treats you well.
I am just little bit confused because you mention you are going to run MW with no other supplements involved but you mention a list of supplements you are going to run.have you used Intra-MD and Conquer unleashed before ?

Yeah, sorry for the confusion. Should have said "minimal" supplements, because the supplements I am running alongside should not affect the run at all because I know how they effect me already. Been using Conqu3r Unleashed for about a month now and I've been running Intra-MD for a few months now.

 

[Danes]

Been using Conqu3r Unleashed for about a month now (it's a pre-workout, figured it wouldn't affect the run) and I've been running Intra-MD for a few months now.

Since you have been using both products for a while, then you should notice if MW has any effect on your body.

A combination of Intra MD and Conquer U. Should help with strength,pumps/musclefullness,endurance, energy and recovery and that combo could camouflage the effect of ecdysteroids

 

[ma70]

Since you have been using both products for a while, then you should notice if MW has any effect on your body.

A combination of Intra MD and Conquer U. Should help with strength,pumps/musclefullness,endurance,energy and recovery and that combo could camouflage the effect of ecdysteroids

Yeah I made sure to use them before I started this run because there would be no way to know if MW was even doing anything. Also, I'm going to push myself pretty hard compared to what I've been doing recently. Same style of working out, but I'm increasing my frequency quite a bit. From anecdotal evidence of both Laxo and Ecdy that I've noticed in the past (in using them), if MW isn't doing it's thing, I probably won't be able to recover.

 

[Danes]

Yeah I made sure to use them before I started this run because there would be no way to know if MW was even doing anything. Also, I'm going to push myself pretty hard compared to what I've been doing recently. Same style of working out, but I'm increasing my frequency quite a bit. From anecdotal evidence of both Laxo and Ecdy that I've noticed in the past (in using them), if MW isn't doing it's thing, I probably won't be able to recover.

Totaly agreed.
I really hope you enjoy it

 

[muree]

Totaly agreed.
I really hope you enjoy it

subbed.. from what i experienced with MW - by the third week it starts kicking in and the muscular endurance is amazing after the third week. didnt notice anything for the first 3 weeks though. MW in my opinion is best suited for volume training like GVT (or) FST-7.

 

[ma70]

subbed.. from what i experienced with MW - by the third week it starts kicking in and the muscular endurance is amazing after the third week. didnt notice anything for the first 3 weeks though. MW in my opinion is best suited for volume training like GVT (or) FST-7.

Welcome to the party. Haha. I plan on using it for it's recovery/adaptogen properties. I'm going to use 5/3/1 frequency project (it's basically 5/3/1 6 days a week or so)

 

[Mattabolic]

SUBBED

 

[muree]

Its really good for recovery as well. I never felt sore during my run even though my work output increased by atleast 50% of my normal routine... very curious to see how it treats you on a 5/3/1 program.

 

[IFN15]

In thisssss

 

[IFN15]

subbed.. from what i experienced with MW - by the third week it starts kicking in and the muscular endurance is amazing after the third week. didnt notice anything for the first 3 weeks though. MW in my opinion is best suited for volume training like GVT (or) FST-7.

Overreaching works very well with the ecdysteroids, i agree. It takes a little while for the adaptogenic effects to kick in these type of ingredients work better utilizing over time.

 

[ma70]

Its really good for recovery as well. I never felt sore during my run even though my work output increased by atleast 50% of my normal routine... very curious to see how it treats you on a 5/3/1 program.

Not sure if you read my original post, but I am not doing the normal 5/3/1 in which you do one main lift once per week (4 days total). I am doing the 6 day high frequency program in which I'll be doing a heavy compound lift every other day. I plan on utilizing it's adaptogen/recover properties in order to let me workout this often and this heavy. Both ecdy/laxo are supposed to "optimize" just about every bodily function (cortisol control, glucose management, protein synthesis, and much more) so I expect good recomping/muscle fullness as well.

 

[TGB1987]

Looking forward to this one! Subbed.

 

[muree]

Not sure if you read my original post, but I am not doing the normal 5/3/1 in which you do one main lift once per week (4 days total). I am doing the 6 day high frequency program in which I'll be doing a heavy compound lift every other day. I plan on utilizing it's adaptogen/recover properties in order to let me workout this often and this heavy. Both ecdy/laxo are supposed to "optimize" just about every bodily function (cortisol control, glucose management, protein synthesis, and much more) so I expect good recomping/muscle fullness as well.

sounds good.. before and after pics will be part of this log?

 

[ma70]

sounds good.. before and after pics will be part of this log?

Possibly. I might take a picture of Week 1 then Week 8.

 

[jgntyce]

Subbed

 

[ma70]

Looks like a snowboarding trip I was going to go on is cancelled. I'm starting tomorrow. Here we go...

 

[ma70]

Week 1 Day 1
Waking Up Weight - 206.6
Waist Circumference - 37.5"

My weight is a weird thing because water weight throws things off pretty easily. Also, I always get different readings for my waist but they're usually around this. I'm 5'11.5". I'll weigh myself often, but as far as waist measurements, probably weekly.

Workout 1:
Overhead Press 3x3
Pendlay Rows 3x5
DB Reverse Fly 3x12

Good workout. Can't comment on Most Wanted, obviously. Shoutout to Olympus Labs though because CU has been treating me well for the past month (and still does). Not exactly the tastiest, but it lets me really kill my workouts. I've been using one scoop for a month now and pleased with the results. I tried 2 scoops today and it was unreal.

 

[ma70]

Week 1 Day 2
Weight - 205.2

Workout 2:
Front Squat 3x3 (3x5 percentages)
Deadlift 3x3

I ate about 3100 calories yesterday (+200 above "maintenance") and I woke up lighter, interesting stuff. We'll see though, because water weight is very fickle. Also noticing more vascularity in my forearms, but that's about it.

 

[ma70]

Week 1 Day 3
Weight - 205.8

Workout 3:
Bench Press 3x3
Row 3x5
DB Reverse Fly 2x12

Feeling a little sore today, but this is expected. It would be miraculous if Most Wanted kicked in this fast. Unfortunately, my body will have to adapt + MW will kick in later, so I just worked through the soreness. Good workout overall though.

 

[IFN15]

Yea it will take a little time for it to come into full effect, cant wait until it gets rolling for you.

 

[ma70]

So I've had all day vascularity and there have been no changes in diet. This reminds me of the occasional vascularity I get when I use a GDA like Slintensity V2/Recompadrol (back when it was out) and eat a nasty crap cheat meal. I don't want to make any assumptions, but there may possibly be actual glucose control/nutrient partitioning going on. Nothing really else to comment about though.

 

[Danes]

So I've had all day vascularity and there have been no changes in diet. This reminds me of the occasional vascularity I get when I use a GDA like Slintensity V2/Recompadrol (back when it was out) and eat a nasty crap cheat meal. I don't want to make any assumptions, but there may possibly be actual glucose control/nutrient partitioning going on. Nothing really else to comment about though.

That is one of very "normal" effects of ecdysterone..

enhancing muscle insulin signaling.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21415384

Effect of ecdysterone on glucose metabolism in vitro
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16246375

Ecdysteroids are known for hypoglyaemic effect and here is one of Turkesterone..

http://www.academia.edu/9181778/Hypoglycaemic_effects_of_Ajuga_extract_in_vitro_and_in_vivo

 

[Danes]

Still angry at koi1214 who owes me 6 bottes of Most Wanted.

 

[ma70]

Week 1 Day 4
Weight - 206.2

Workout 4:
Front Squat 3x3
Lying Leg Curls 2x10

Good workout. Feeling a bit sore in my upper body but it's all good. Enjoying the frequent/intense workouts that are usually around 30-40 mins long. Big change of pace from the 1 hour workouts I was doing. I feel like I'm getting more quality work in.

 

[ma70]

Week 1 Day 5
Weight - 206.2

Workout 5:
Overhead Press 3x5
Pendlay Row 3x5
DB Reverse Fly 3x12

Good workout. Only feeling slight DOMS/soreness so I feel I'm finally adapting to things. Other than increased vascularity, I also feel like my joints are rock solid. I've never had any major joint issues, except MAYBE my left shoulder (never any pain, just a feeling of "loose/creakiness", not sure how to describe it) but on this stuff everything feels SOLID.

 

[IFN15]

Glad your liking the most wanted so far ma70, im excited to see the results coming soon.

 

[muree]

good first week..

 

[ma70]

Well I can't attribute much to the product just yet. I view this as natural adaptation to high frequency, but I'll be monitoring body composition/weight changes weekly. Given that I'm double dosing an already expensive product (typically retails for 70 dollars I believe), I'm hoping this is effective.

 

[ma70]

Just gonna use this as a placeholder for tomorrow since I'm going to be busy for Christmas.

Week 1 Day 6
Weight: ?? (not going to be able to use the same scale I always use)
Rest Day

I won't be tracking macros today. I won't be slaughtering down food but it won't be exact and I'll have no idea what the macros are since it'll be home cooked food that I haven't had in awhile. This shouldn't really effect the log much because it'll be one day. I was going to do one more workout before taking a rest day but the gym is closed, so this is a "forced" rest day, which I'm okay with.

 

[ma70]

Week 1 Day 7
Weight - 211.0
Waist Circumference: 37.5"

Workout 6:
Front Squat 3x3
Deadlift 3x3

I wouldn't take my waking up weight too seriously. Mostly the extra carbs/water retention. My weight should stabilize when I continue my "boring" diet. My waist is still the same, and I don't think I miraculously gained 5 lbs in 2 days. Starting today, I'm going to lower my calories by about 100-200. This should actually be a big deal because accumulated fatigue+increased weights should start beating me down, but that's exactly when I hope Most Wanted "kicks in". I might even lower the calories more next week if recovery feels too easy. I really want to test this stuff.

 

[ma70]

Week 2 Day 1
Weight - 206.2

Workout 7:
Bench Press 3x5
Row 3x5
DB Reverse Fly 2x12

Good workout. As expected, my weight has normalized again. I thought I would have had SOME weight gain though. Enjoying what I'm seeing so far.

 

[Danes]

Week 2 Day 1
Weight - 206.2

Workout 7:
Bench Press 3x5
Row 3x5
DB Reverse Fly 2x12

Good workout. As expected, my weight has normalized again. I thought I would have had SOME weight gain though. Enjoying what I'm seeing so far.

You will notice more of the product after 3 weeks

 

[ma70]

You will notice more of the product after 3 weeks

I mostly meant the weight gain should have been from pigging out for the past day or so. I was expecting maybe half a pound increase or something.

 

[IFN15]

Hope you guys had a nice Holiday.

 

[Danes]

Hope you guys had a nice Holiday.

Thanks. Same to you

 

[ma70]

Week 2 Day 2
Weight - 203.8

Workout 8:
Front Squat 3x5
Lying Leg Curls 2x10

Really interesting stuff here. My weight dropped a bit and I can't figure out why. (My diet is back to normal, although I started a 200 calorie deficit yesterday) Also I've been noticing MUCH better sleep. I noticed this about 1-2 days ago but thought it was coincidence because I was "cheating" on my diet.

Week 1 Summary:
- Increased all-day vascularity (mostly forearms)
- Better sleep (this was noticeable around day 4-5 of using this)
- Better recovery (possibly, or this is just me getting used to the program)
- Better joint health (never had joint problems to begin with, but they feel extra solid)

Everything else would be inconclusive so I'm not going to say anything about body comp/strength/endurance. Week 1 calories were mostly recomp/lean bulk (100-200 surplus) calories. Week 2 will be recomp/slight cut calories (100-200 deficit). After week 2, the weight will be increased but I'll note that during the log so no one gets confused.

 

[ma70]

Week 2 Day 3
Weight - 204.8

Workout 9:
Overhead Press 5/3/1
Row 3x5
DB Incline Reverse Fly 2x12

Weight fluctuation is a bit weird. Ate a bit more yesterday to set myself around my maintenance calories again. I'm starting to think my "maintenance" is no longer my maintenance, due to the supplement helping with body comp somehow. (either because it's letting me train hard at X amount of calories or because it's helping me partition nutrients better). Mirror results look positive but we'll see. Strength is maintained but I'm dropping weight a bit, so I can't complain.

 

[ma70]

Week 2 Day 4
Weight - 206.6

Rest Day

Taking a break again today as my body gets used to the higher frequency. I've used my two rest days for 12 workouts, so I won't be taking a break for awhile after today. I slightly strained my left upper back yesterday maxing out on overhead press (strange). My weight is back up after eating more food. I've decided I'm not going to try the calorie deficit at all this log because I'm doing a pretty intense program and I'd rather not risk injury. So I'm back to recomp/lean bulk calories starting yesterday.

 

[ma70]

Week 2 Day 5

Workout 10:
Front Squat 3x3
Deadlift 3/3/1

Decided I'm just going to stick to weekly weight/waist measurements because I don't want to get burnt out constantly recording this stuff for the log. Workout went well today. Nothing additional to notice other than what happened so far in Week 1. Vascularity, recovery, and sleep benefits so far.

 

[ma70]

Happy new years everyone! The gym is open today, so I will went.

Week 2 Day 6

Workout 11:
Bench Press 5/3/1
Row 3x5
DB Reverse Fly 2x12

I feel stronger, but I can't tell for sure. My upper body high percentage TM lifts (they get slightly sloppy above 90%) normally aren't as clean as these are, so it's definitely a pleasant surprise. Loving the run so far. I don't feel DOMS at all anymore.

 

[IFN15]

Sounds like the fun is beginning, and happy new years guys!

 

[ma70]

Week 2 Day 7
Weight: 204.6 (I was curious why I looked a little better in the mirror, turns out I've lost weight in a stable way, weird)

Workout 12:
Front Squat 5/3/1
Lying Leg Curls 2x10

This is basically the end of Week 2, so I'm gonna drop down my analysis in this post. As per the original post,. I've already been running Intra-MD for months now (at least 6), and I've been running Conqu3r Unleashed for 1 month (before this log even started) so those have already been squared away. I've done high frequency training cycles like this before, except I've always done lower intensities (ranging from 75-85% of my TM) but similar volume and frequency using Athletix Ergonine. This time around, I am obviously not using Ergonine because I didn't want the adaptogen propeties of Ecdy/Laxo to be covered up and I've been off of it for about a month before this log started (so I'm not saturated with whatever ingredients were in there). The effects are the same as week 1, which are the following:

1) Increased vascularity (mainly in forearms. I won't call this muscle fullness yet)
2) Increased recovery (I'm not even getting DOMS anymore, although that may be adaptation to the program. my recovery is better than when I am on Ergonine though)
3) Great joint health (my joints have ALWAYS been stable, except maybe my left shoulder, and on this run, they feel absolutely rock solid)
4) Better sleep

But this is now the end of week 2, and I've noticed that what my maintenance used to be is no longer the case. This has been my general maintenance for about a year or two, even on the other high frequency program I've ran. (usually a range of 2700-2900 calories) The fact that I've dropped weight ever so slightly, but I can recover from all of these workouts that are harder than what I've done before is pretty nice. My strength seems to have increased, because I know for a fact that my form is UGLY at the higher percentiles of my big lifts (90%+). I'm doing things in the 90% and 95% (obviously, these are the 5/3/1 template percentages) and the reps look clean. I either got stronger, or suddenly my technique got way better at higher percentages.

I like to give myself as much credit for working hard, but these things have to be noted. I'd also like to point out that even if the supplement is doing something, this is not a cost effective run. Double dosing MW at normal price would be a whopping 140 bucks a month (280 for 8 weeks, and so on). I'll be increasing my calories slightly to make sure I don't drop too much weight. I'm raising the training maxes as per the 5/3/1 frequency project template today. +5 lbs for the Bench Press/Overhead Press, and +10 lbs for the Deadlift/Front Squat.

 

[Danes]

Well done. I mean its after 3-4 weeks adaptogens are full kicking in and they works better and better (the effects get stronger)

 

[ma70]

Week 3 Day 1

Workout 13:
Press 3x3
Row 3x5
DB Reverse Fly 2x12

Not much to report. Typical day. Feeling stronger on assistance and main lifts. No DOMS to report from yesterday. I have a feeling I'm just going to be cruising now that the "hardest part" is over. We'll see though. I'll most likely comment on other possible effects I notice.

 

[ma70]

Week 3 Day 2

Waking Up Weight - 204.6 (-2 lbs)
Waist Circumference - 37" (-.5")

Workout 14:
Front Squat 3x3
Deadlift 3x3

So weight/waist size indicates I've lost fat, yet I'm stronger without a doubt (wheniever i "cut" or lose weight, my presses get noticeable weaker/not as clean. should be noted I wasn't intending to really cut with this log). This is a positive body recomposition effect. This will be noted as one of my "notes" for this week unless I notice more things.

 

[ma70]

Week 3 Day 3

Workout 15:
Bench Press 3x3
Row 3x5
DB Reverse Fly 2x12

Not gonna lie, today was looking scary. Mostly because my Bench Press seems to be my weakness and sticking point, and progressing at this rate is unheard of for me. It could also be a confidence issue, but either way, I got in the gym, cranked out the sets and left. I was pretty shocked that I was able to Bench what I did today. No DOMS, etc. usual stuff. Can't really complain how things are moving along. Strength increased at lighter weight, I'm digging it.

 

[muree]

week 3 is magical with MW good to hear its working well..