Hey , i'm 21 and i've used those 2 products for 1 month .

I didn't lose/win weights , but i got somehow leaner , and more vascular , i was more hunger too .
So i lost some fat , and gain some muscles , maybe from my diet ( i upped proteins ) or from supp or both.

It was a nice run , the only bad thing is that i paid 100 euros for both , from an UK site , ********.......com , really too expensive , i won't buy on this site anymore.