Mega-dosing Your BCAA+EAAs

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    Mega-dosing Your BCAA+EAAs


    Been messing with my BCAA/EAA dosing for years now. Thought I’d fill you guys in on my findings. I have been playing with 3 different types of BCAAs: Xtend, Vassive EA8, and BC+EAA. I have used these on/off for quite some time now and have done a number of different dosing protocols (timing, amounts, etc). I have tried 10g/day up to 50g/day.

    Here is what I noticed:

    At 10g/day – My DOMS were less pronounced. Yes, I still had DOMS but 10g did make a difference here.

    At 20-30g/day – DOMS were even MORE less pronounced. Fatigue was starting to really get blunted during my workouts. I had nice muscle fullness that lasted throughout the day. Was starting to cut more easily and continue to gain strength at a calorie deficit.

    At 40g and beyond – Holy Recovery Batman!! I have ZERO DOMS. Fatigue during workouts is minimal. I am able to continually gain strength in decent increments while on a calorie deficit. I think this dosing is the best because the effects are definitely most pronounced. Needless to say, it is very anti-catabolic. Cuts come on fast when you are mega-dosing your BCAAs+EAAs.

    This isn’t anything new. I am just giving some feedback because I don’t think mega-dosing BCAAs is underrated.

    My top 3 favorite brands that I have used on a long term basis is:

    • Scivation’s Xtend – this was my first BCAA drink. I stuck with it for about 2 years just out of taste and how it made me feel intra w/o but those ‘feelings’ are due largely to the citrulline malate. This is a great product but doesn’t have any EAAs in it. Taste started to loose it’s appeal. I give Xtend a 3/5.
    • ON’s Vassive EA8 – First thing is the taste. WOW! Delicious!! It has EAA’s in it as well. So I am plenty happy with it. Only downfall is the price. $30 per tub which can be pricey when mega dosing. I give this one 4/5.
    • LG’s BC+EAA – moved onto this next purely out of price. It is inexpensive and it has BCAA and EAA. Only thing left is the taste. This can depend a lot on the water to scoops ratio. I find it taste DELECIOUS when dosing 50g in a gallon of water. Not saying I need a lot to enjoy the taste. Just saying it taste awesome at this ratio. Having less scoops in less water is just as good too obviously. If you decide to use more water to scoops ratio it’s still good. Just not as intoxicating which isn’t our main concern here with our supplements. As long as I don’t gag after every sip, I’m happy. Another thing is has hydrolyzed peptides making for faster absorption. I give this one a 5/5 because it covers all bases.

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    50g in a gallon of water?

    Do you get the dreaded 'Branch Chain Breath' from drinking those all day? I know I used to.
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    Good point SB. Yes, it is acidic and does give you bad breath. I do brush my teeth 2 or 3x day because of this and I chew gum lol. Small price to pay
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroba View Post
    Good point SB. Yes, it is acidic and does give you bad breath. I do brush my teeth 2 or 3x day because of this and I chew gum lol. Small price to pay
    Indeed. Small price to pay to be a legend.
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    good review met ive been loving LGs BC+EAAs i may try a mega dose one of these days.
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    good to hear this, as i have my BC=EAA, and xtends on their way, and just got my Muscle marinade today.
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    Good summary

    I notice that I get away with only 14g of the BCAA-malates in Chain'd Out. I wonder if they really don't convert to sugar like the regular ones as per ALR claims. It would be a good experiment for you
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    Great thread met i was just talking about mega dosing some bcaa's today. Hmmmm great minds think alike
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    yes they do my friend. Have you seen the reformulation for LG's BCAA shiz? 8:1:1 bro ...and with bigger mouths and more servings
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroba View Post
    yes they do my friend. Have you seen the reformulation for LG's BCAA shiz? 8:1:1 bro ...and with bigger mouths and more servings
    oh shizzzel
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    thanks for the feedback brother!
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    This is one area where I have done very little experimentation. Since I've seen Metroba and others talking about it in Snagency's thread, I've made up my mind to give this mega-dosing BCAA=EAA's a thorough trial.
    Especially if it helps with the DOMS. I've been training like a mad man and have wound up sore as all Hel lately.
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    Right on man! Glad I help steer you in that direction! Interested in how it goes for a madman such as yourself!
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    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    This is one area where I have done very little experimentation. Since I've seen Metroba and others talking about it in Snagency's thread, I've made up my mind to give this mega-dosing BCAA=EAA's a thorough trial.
    Especially if it helps with the DOMS. I've been training like a mad man and have wound up sore as all Hel lately.
    It just makes perfect sense. It is what muscle is made from so why wouldn't it help recovery. I saw a log of a guy that ran pepto pro at very high doses and his gains were amazing. That log always got me thinking about it.
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    P Pro was pretty sweet but pricey as fack!
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroba View Post
    P Pro was pretty sweet but pricey as fack!
    Ya no sh**! Someone needs to get some bulk PeptoPro that tastes good and is reasonable along with some bulk GPLC...
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    It is pricey but you have to use half to 1/3 of what you would normally use. It is definitely high quality
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    What about the timing of the dosage? I'm thinking of dosing the same amount, but maybe split it up with ~10g up waking, ~20-30g intra/post workout, ~10g before bed. Have you noticed any difference with the timing of taking >40g?

    Thanks for the post, good stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saku27 View Post
    What about the timing of the dosage? I'm thinking of dosing the same amount, but maybe split it up with ~10g up waking, ~20-30g intra/post workout, ~10g before bed. Have you noticed any difference with the timing of taking >40g?

    Thanks for the post, good stuff.
    The way you have it is basically how i dose it. I find it best when dosing a majority intra workout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hman85 View Post
    It is pricey but you have to use half to 1/3 of what you would normally use. It is definitely high quality
    What makes you believe you need to use 1/2 to 1/3 the amount. It is instantized, making it more water soluble, that does not mean that you need less of it or more of others.
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    I am starting more serious megadosing around my workout. I have been mixing in 24g EAA's in with 1/2 gallon sugar free drink mix and going through about 1.5 of those a day at work. I also had been taking in about 25 total, pre and intra workout. Now I am taking in 30 grams pwo, 25-30 grams intra and slamming the rest at the end of the workout, and will continue to mix the EAA's in my drink mix throughout the day. I am lowering my amount of meals to 4 maybe 5 on weight workout days if you count para-workout nutrition as a meal. Cool to hear they changed the ratio, I was ordering EAAs and a big thing of leucine and mixing them together. Smart thinking LG, and glad to know my mind was working at the same ideas as you brains over there in the lab.
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    Met is this supplementary to your daily H20 intake? Or, do you count your mandatory H20 in this blend? Also, every day? Workout days? Etc? How many tubs do you go through a month?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge View Post
    Met is this supplementary to your daily H20 intake? Or, do you count your mandatory H20 in this blend? Also, every day? Workout days? Etc? How many tubs do you go through a month?
    First of all, whatttttuppp?! Long time no see man . Yes this is included into my daily water intake. Right now I am using BC+EAA and there is 389g per tub. Right now I am dosing 30g/day, take a day off here and there. At 30g/day that last for 13 days. At NP, it is $13, so that's 1$ day. Really not a bad way to spend your money
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    Wassssssup bromang?

    Any suggestions on a reliable container of water that holds a gallon? I've done the milk jug thing, but I like to clean them out and the narrow opening doesn't help. Lol.

    I just did 30 grams yesterday after BJJ. I'm usually super dead the next day, but I can say that I do feel much better than usual.
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    I've been megadosing for a while as well......

    Pre-Workout:
    1 Pack Animal Nitro

    Intra-Workout:
    1 Serving BCAA+EAA
    1 Serving BCAA Stack

    Post-Workout:
    1 Pack Animal Nitro
    1 Serving EAA Nitro

    Before Bed:
    2 Servings BCAA Stack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge View Post
    Wassssssup bromang?

    Any suggestions on a reliable container of water that holds a gallon? I've done the milk jug thing, but I like to clean them out and the narrow opening doesn't help. Lol.

    I just did 30 grams yesterday after BJJ. I'm usually super dead the next day, but I can say that I do feel much better than usual.
    Excellent. Try and drink it throughout the day though. It's like being on an IV all day of amino acids . I use gallon jugs of water, and large protein shaker cups. If I use the cups, I just do a third or half the dose split up 2-3x/day.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    I've been megadosing for a while as well......

    Pre-Workout:
    1 Pack Animal Nitro

    Intra-Workout:
    1 Serving BCAA+EAA
    1 Serving BCAA Stack

    Post-Workout:
    1 Pack Animal Nitro
    1 Serving EAA Nitro

    Before Bed:
    2 Servings BCAA Stack
    right on man. How ya liken it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroba View Post
    right on man. How ya liken it?
    Pretty well. A couple of thoughts that always cross my mind on megaminos...

    1) How much does the body actually put to use? I just think at some point the body is just going to piss out what you don't need. And if that is the case is it better to spread them throughout the day?

    2) I feel like the benefits of aminos really show more on a cut than a bulk. I'm bulking now and i'm eating so much protein from food that I probably do not need all those extra aminos but I take them anyways.

    But overall they definitely help....and it's a nice way to spice up my water. I will say though I still get DOMS. You're 55lbs lighter than myself so you can probably get away with taking less than I need to and see benefit. I probably need to add another 10-20g to see the effect your seeing.
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    ive been megadosing my bulk since i read this, split up morning/mid day or workout/night and its been helping. i went to nutra and got 3 tubs of Bc +Eaa from LG. the kiwi one. i was imagining a weak flavor but i was really suprised. it didnt taste like BCAAs at all, it wasnt acidic like most others. very nice! as long as nutra keeps the deal on them i will be using this!
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    I've always been interested in the idea of mega-dosing aminos,
    I might actually give it a good test to prove if it really does work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    Pretty well. A couple of thoughts that always cross my mind on megaminos...

    1) How much does the body actually put to use? I just think at some point the body is just going to piss out what you don't need. And if that is the case is it better to spread them throughout the day?
    I really think that is using all of it. Think of it this way: You are not taking a multi-vitamin. You are basically on an IV of food all without the calories. Imagine eating a lot of food, what happens to it? You either have just enough to maintain or you store some as muscle/fat. You don't piss/**** out most of it. I think it also helps that I drink it throughout the day as opposed to just a straight shot of 30-50g.
    2) I feel like the benefits of aminos really show more on a cut than a bulk. I'm bulking now and i'm eating so much protein from food that I probably do not need all those extra aminos but I take them anyways.
    Absolutely. I think it def helps during a bulk but I agree, it shines most during a cut. It is highly anti catabolic and only helps preserve that muscle during a cut.
    But overall they definitely help....and it's a nice way to spice up my water. I will say though I still get DOMS. You're 55lbs lighter than myself so you can probably get away with taking less than I need to and see benefit. I probably need to add another 10-20g to see the effect your seeing.
    Same as what I said above. It's like eating. You are bigger so you need to eat more to grow, in this case, you need more aminos to have an effect.
    see above
    Quote Originally Posted by tnubs View Post
    ive been megadosing my bulk since i read this, split up morning/mid day or workout/night and its been helping. i went to nutra and got 3 tubs of Bc +Eaa from LG. the kiwi one. i was imagining a weak flavor but i was really suprised. it didnt taste like BCAAs at all, it wasnt acidic like most others. very nice! as long as nutra keeps the deal on them i will be using this!
    Def a sweet deal going on right now. You'll be happy you didn't miss out on it. Really 1$ a day is just amazing. I'm glad you are digging it. Keep us posted.
    Quote Originally Posted by wrasslin116 View Post
    I've always been interested in the idea of mega-dosing aminos,
    I might actually give it a good test to prove if it really does work.
    Def worth a shot. More user feedback is always great. Give it a try and see how it works for you. What brand of aminos do you have on hand?
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    Right now I have some Xtend and PW laying around, I might pick up some bulk or BCAA-EAA.

    I'm interested how this would work with track season seeing as I get up at 5:45 before school to do weights then 3-5:30 have track practice (100m, polevault, shotput).
    Hopefully it helps! I'll be starting right at 40-50g ED if I decide to do this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrasslin116 View Post
    Right now I have some Xtend and PW laying around, I might pick up some bulk or BCAA-EAA.

    I'm interested how this would work with track season seeing as I get up at 5:45 before school to do weights then 3-5:30 have track practice (100m, polevault, shotput).
    Hopefully it helps! I'll be starting right at 40-50g ED if I decide to do this.
    It will def help A LOT with your endurance. Let us know how it goes man.
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    how about having the 50g dose spread over 3?
    perhaps intra and another 2 hours later and then one before bed?

    i think that should work no?
    also for acidity, you can just add a gram or so of calcium carbonate powder to alkalanise it a little
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    Quote Originally Posted by djremix View Post
    how about having the 50g dose spread over 3?
    perhaps intra and another 2 hours later and then one before bed?

    i think that should work no?
    also for acidity, you can just add a gram or so of calcium carbonate powder to alkalanise it a little
    I wouldn't want free-form aminos before bed due to the insulin spike. Intra- to post- workout is the way I prefer bcaas/eaas
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroba View Post
    It will def help A LOT with your endurance. .
    Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    I wouldn't want free-form aminos before bed due to the insulin spike. Intra- to post- workout is the way I prefer bcaas/eaas
    Here's some reading for BCAA+EAA's:


    Why do so many bodybuilders know so little about amino acids and protein, the differences in their form and the best times to ingest them?

    With nothing less that optimal muscle growth at stake, time invested in a little research can pay big dividends – both in terms of physical size and dollars saved. Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins and muscle tissue. All types of physiological processes relating to sport – energy, recovery, muscle / strength gains and fat loss, as well as mood and brain function – are intimately and critically linked to amino acids. It’s no wonder amino acids have become major players in athletes’ supplementation, especially among bodybuilders.

    What are Amino Acids?The 23 or so amino acids are the molecular building blocks of proteins. According to one accepted classification, 9 are termed indispensable amino acids (IAA, sometimes called essential), meaning that they must be supplied from some food or supplement source; the others, which used to be classified simply as nonessential, are now more correctly termed dispensable amino acids (DAA) or conditionally indispensable, based on the body’s ability to synthesize them from other amino acids. You may not give it much thought when you sink your teeth into a chicken breast (or lentil stew), but the content and balance of amino acids, particularly the ratio of IAA to DAA, is what determines the body and health building value of a protein food or supplement. But that isn’t all that matters. In addition to being influenced by the carbohydrates, fats and total calories associated with it, protein quality is related to the amount of the specific aminos within both the IAA and DAA categories (for example, the amount of glutamine and branched chain amino acids, or BCAAs – leucine, isoleucine and valine). While the amount of IAAs are generally of greater importance, the DAAs are also significant because they’re synthesized too slowly to support maximum growth. Even if a source has a perfect amino acid profile for a given individual and lifestyle, another important factor – to what extent these acids are actually delivered to the tissues when needed – must be considered. That, in turn, raises the issues of digestion, absorption, actual bioavailability and the potential value of supplementation.

    What is Bioavailability?Eating quality food is the most common way to get amino acids into the diet, especially high protein foods like lean meats and nonfat dairy products. Even some vegetables and legumes can offer high levels of most amino acids. For serious athletes and those on the run, protein powders and pure free form amino acids provide a convenient and effective means to supplement dietary needs. Why would people pay relatively large sums of money for only a few grams of pure cheaply? Because of bioavailability. Bioavailability gauges the extent to which an administered substance reaches its site of action or utilization in the body. Bioavailability is thus a measure of the efficiency of delivery – how much of what is ingested is actually used for its intended purpose. Conceivably, two diets could contain exactly the same amount of particular amino acids (the same amino acid profile) but have significant differences in their absorption. A number of factors affect amino acid bioavailability (see Factors Affecting Amino Acid Bioavailability. The most reliable way to deliver specific amino acids is to administer the particular amino acids themselves. The most bioavailable source for oral use is powdered free form amino acids. A singular (unbonded) amino acids can specifically elevate its level in the general circulation within 15 minutes, making it readily available for metabolism at the site where it’s needed. Hence, for example, the recommendation to use BCAAs before, during and after training both to prevent central / mental fatigue, as well as to provide a source of energy to help prevent muscle protein catabolism and to speed recuperation.

    Applications to BodybuildingMuscle tissue will grow in the presence of a number of factors, including exercise, hormones (growth hormone, insulin, testosterone and thyroid) and nutrients. Nutrition science has advanced to the point where athletes who supplement with free form amino acids can get IAAs, high in BCAA content, to the muscles much more effectively. The key is the window of opportunity that occurs immediately after exercise, when the muscle is especially receptive to nutrients and the blood flow to the exercised muscles remains high. The solution to optimizing recovery and growth in this case could include eating a small meal composed of protein with both simple and complex carbohydrates. This isn’t the current high tech approach, however. For one, if you trained hard, chances are – even if a convenient and light, nutritious meal was readily available – you wouldn’t feel like eating. More important, a high protein meal won’t put significant levels of amino acids into your bloodstream until a couple of hours after you eat it, especially if blood flow to the gastrointestinal tract has been diminished by a hard training session. The bottom line: Even if you eat the right foods soon after training, the nutrients will arrive at the muscle too late to take full advantage of the window of opportunity.

    Directed Amino AcidsSupplement manufacturers recognized the potential value of free-form amino use was limited by their expense and a relative lack of convincing supportive research for a number of years, their popularity has recently increased dramatically. Prepackaged workout and recovery drinks containing hydrolyzed (predigested) proteins and often some free-form amino acids now fill gym refrigerators. Capsules and powdered free-form amino acids, although still somewhat expensive, are likewise being used by increasing numbers of top amateur and professional athletes. The value of free-form amino acids is first and foremost that they don’t require digestion. The term ‘free-form’ means exactly that: They are free of chemical bonds to other molecules and so move quickly through the stomach and into the small intestine, where they’re rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream. Upon absorption, amino acids are processed by the liver. When you eat a steak, for example, only relatively few amino acids escape the metabolic actions of the liver. Yet the liver can process only so many at one time, and taking a dose of 3-4 grams of rapidly absorbed amino acids exceeds the liver’s capacity, resulting in the aminos being directed to the tissues that require them, such as muscle in the case of bodybuilder recovering from training. Thus, the concept of ‘directed amino acids’. While sound in theory, does it work in practice? As early as 1990, the Bulgarian national weightlifting team began trials to determine if free-form amino acids were a boost to muscular growth. The work was so successful that part of the study was replicated on the Colorado Springs Olympic Training Center. Since then, top bodybuilders and powerlifters around the world today – including Mr. Olympia Dorian Yates, and ‘Mr. Powerlifting’ Ed Coan – have benefited from this new research.

    Amino Acids for EnergyMany misconceptions exist about the muscle contraction and the use of energy substrates during heavy during heavy, high-intensity weight training. When you’re engaged in a repetitive power workout, a substantial portion of your energy comes from noncarbohydrate sources. When muscle contracts, it uses its stores of adenosine triphosphate (ATP, a substance vital to the energy processes of all living cells) for the first few seconds. The compound used to immediately replenish these stores is creatine phosphate (CP). The recent explosion of creatine supplements in the market attests to its value to hard training bodybuilders and other strength / power athletes. CP is made from three amino acids: arginine, methionine and glycine. To keep CP and ATP levels high, these amino acids must be elevated in the bloodstream. Traditionally, these proteins have been supplied by foods in the diet. Elevating levels of these amino acids or of CP with conventional foods takes a great deal of time (for digestion) and isn’t specific, typically providing levels of fats and carbohydrates that may or may not be desired. The use of free-form amino acids, alone and in combination with creatine supplements, can provide directed source of energy for power and growth.

    Amino Acids & Fat LossIn fat loss, two major processes must occur: 1) the mobilization and circulation of stored fats in the body must increase; and 2) fats must be transported and converted to energy at the powerhouse site of cells, the mitochondria. Several nutrients can assist in the conversion of fat to energy, including lipotropic agents such as choline, inositol and the IAA methionine which, in sufficient quantities, can help improve the transport and metabolism of fat. Supplementation with complete IAA mixtures, BCAAs and glutamine can also help keep calorie and food volume down while providing targeted support directly to the muscles, liver and immune systems so critical to optimizing body composition.

    Reducing Muscle CatabolismThe human body has the innate ability to break down muscle tissue for use as an energy source during heavy exercise. This muscle catabolism can cause muscle soreness, shrinkage of muscle tissue and may even lead to injury. This enemy to bodybuilders is part of a process known as gluconeogenosis, which means producing or generating glucose from noncarbohydrate sources. The part of this reaction that of importance to bodybuilders is known as the glucose – alanine cycle, in which BCAAs are stripped from the muscle tissue and parts of them are converted to the amino acid alanine, which is transported to the liver and converted into glucose. If you consume supplemental BCAA’s. the body does not have to break down muscle tissue to derive extra energy. A study conducted recently at the School of Human Biology, University of Guelph, Onterio, Canada, confirmed that the use of BCAA’s (up to 4 grams) during and after exercise can result in a significant reduction of muscle breakdown during exercise. In addition to BCAAs, arginine is another amino acid that may benefit bodybuilders. Though it did not live up to its early hype, which touted the amino acid’s ability to raise growth hormone level, new data indicate that arginine – in large but safe and affordable doses – may be able to raise GH levels by up to 1,000%.

    Free-Form vs. Di & TripeptidesThe form an amino acid takes has been a confusing subject for a number of years, partly because of research that demonstrated superior absorption of purified di- and tripeptides fragments. Di- and tripeptides are simply two and three amino acid molecules bound together, respectively, as opposed to the single molecules of free-form amino acids. The fact is, pure, powdered free-form amino acids are absorbed from the small intestine into the bloodstream and are available to the tissues very quickly. The problem with pure di- and tripeptides isn’t their bioavailability but 3Ü available to consumers. Moreover, hydrolyzed proteins such as whey and lactalbumin are not necessarily good sources of di- and tripeptides. They generally contain very few of these amino acid combinations, and what few they have may get lost in the general wash of longer chain peptides contained in these hydrolysates. So while pure di- and tripeptides are efficient in their ability to be absorbed into the bloodstream, pure free-form amino acids are equal or superior for bodybuilders and other athletes and more important, are as close as your nearest health food store.

    Factors Affecting Amino Acid BioavailabilityHow fast you eat a protein source and the length of time it takes for the digested amino acids to be available for use by the body are determined by a number of factors, which include:

    •Cooking – Amino acids are more or less sensitive to heat. For example, arginine is extremely stable and will decompose only if exposed to sustained temperatures about 470 degrees F. Carnitine decomposes at temperatures of 284 F. Cooking, in addition to killing micro-organisms, makes the long spiral polypeptide chains unwind, causing the amino acid to become more exposed when it reaches the digestive system.
    •Physical nature of the food, whether solid, liquid, powder or tablet; whether and to what extent chemically predigested and the type and amounts of binders, fillers and other nutritive and non-nutritive materials.
    •Status of the digestive system – Genetics, age, overall health and specific diseases and illnesses.
    •Metabolism or utilization by the intestine before absorption – such as occurs with glutamine.
    •Metabolism or utilization in the liver before transfer to the general circulation – For maximal directed effects, amino acids should be taken on an empty stomach and in a dosage that enables significant quantities to reach the target tissues.
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

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    too long bro..do you have this on audio?
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroba View Post

    The way you have it is basically how i dose it. I find it best when dosing a majority intra workout.
    Bumping, did u find that dosing aminos intra would blunt fat burning (training fasted) this is a confusing topic for me (how to properly dose my aminos) and I think it could be affecting my overall progress with gains and muscle fullness as well as fat loss/body comp
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Bumping, did u find that dosing aminos intra would blunt fat burning (training fasted) this is a confusing topic for me (how to properly dose my aminos) and I think it could be affecting my overall progress with gains and muscle fullness as well as fat loss/body comp
    I've wondered the same thing. IIRC the insulin release from BCAA lasts around a half hour, this would make me think it would hamper fat loss during a workout. Just to be safe I avoid them intra workout and just take them about 10-15 minutes pre.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoadx View Post
    I've wondered the same thing. IIRC the insulin release from BCAA lasts around a half hour, this would make me think it would hamper fat loss during a workout. Just to be safe I avoid them intra workout and just take them about 10-15 minutes pre.
    Right! Yet so many r taking it intra and are very lean..
    "no failure is final, nor is any success"
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