Low HDL following Havoc Cycle + PCT - AnabolicMinds.com

Low HDL following Havoc Cycle + PCT

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    Low HDL following Havoc Cycle + PCT


    I did a 4 week Havoc cycle at 20/30/30/30 back in April and followed it up with the following PCT in May:

    PCS 4/4/4/4
    Novedex XT 3/3/2/1
    Retain 3/3/2/1

    I ran Cycle Support throughout including PCT.

    On July 3rd, I had some limited bloodwork done which yielded the following lipid results:

    Total Cholesterol 139.61 mg/dl
    HDL Cholesterol 37.69 mg/dl
    LDL Cholesterol 88.46 mg/dl
    Triglycerides 33.46 mg/dl

    I am concerned because my HDL Cholesterol is about 9 points lower than my previous bloodwork which was completed in May 2007. For reference, those numbers were as follows:

    Total Cholesterol 143.07 mg/dl
    HDL Cholesterol 46.15 mg/dl
    LDL Cholesterol 80.76 mg/dl
    Triglycerides 81.81 mg/dl

    My understanding is that an individual's HDL should be at least 40 mg/dl to be considered in the healthy range (and this is typically considered low normal). It's interesting to note that my prior year's bloodwork was completed 3 months after my PCT ended for a 4 week Phera-plex cycle. For that particular PCT, unlike my most recent one, I used a SERM (i.e. Nolva).

    In any case, how bad is my HDL level and what can I do to increase this number? I was considering going on Niacin for a couple of months to boost it but I know that it can be mildly liver toxic as well. Not good since I was planning to pulse Epi or SD in October. I think if I go through with the pulse, I will use Epi since SD is known to have a harsh impact on lipids and HDL in particular.

    Some advice regarding my HDL level and whether or not I should go through with my pulse in October would be greatly appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjo View Post
    I did a 4 week Havoc cycle at 20/30/30/30 back in April and followed it up with the following PCT in May:

    PCS 4/4/4/4
    Novedex XT 3/3/2/1
    Retain 3/3/2/1

    I ran Cycle Support throughout including PCT.

    On July 3rd, I had some limited bloodwork done which yielded the following lipid results:

    Total Cholesterol 139.61 mg/dl
    HDL Cholesterol 37.69 mg/dl
    LDL Cholesterol 88.46 mg/dl
    Triglycerides 33.46 mg/dl

    I am concerned because my HDL Cholesterol is about 9 points lower than my previous bloodwork which was completed in May 2007. For reference, those numbers were as follows:

    Total Cholesterol 143.07 mg/dl
    HDL Cholesterol 46.15 mg/dl
    LDL Cholesterol 80.76 mg/dl
    Triglycerides 81.81 mg/dl

    My understanding is that an individual's HDL should be at least 40 mg/dl to be considered in the healthy range (and this is typically considered low normal). It's interesting to note that my prior year's bloodwork was completed 3 months after my PCT ended for a 4 week Phera-plex cycle. For that particular PCT, unlike my most recent one, I used a SERM (i.e. Nolva).

    In any case, how bad is my HDL level and what can I do to increase this number? I was considering going on Niacin for a couple of months to boost it but I know that it can be mildly liver toxic as well. Not good since I was planning to pulse Epi or SD in October. I think if I go through with the pulse, I will use Epi since SD is known to have a harsh impact on lipids and HDL in particular.

    Some advice regarding my HDL level and whether or not I should go through with my pulse in October would be greatly appreciated.
    Normal HDL levels will vary depending on the lab that it's tested in. Not to mention different states that the body is in can also affect results (I.E. illness, if you've eaten already that day, medications) In all honesty though, your lipid panel looks pretty damn good.

    A low (Out of range) HDL is much more of a concern if you have either high, or borderline high LDL levels to begin with. You total cholesterol, tri-glyceride, and LDL levels are actually pretty good.

    Which SERM did you use with your PCT? Toremifine is MUCH better on lipids overall than nolva. That in itself would help rebound your HDL levels to a good degree.

    I would pre-load that cycle support, and continue to get baseline/post cycle blood work done if you can.

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    Its not terrible, your LDL looks fine if I remember the ranges right. Total and Trigylcrides are ok too.

    You could hit up some niacin for a little bit, most likely cardio, eating right should help out. Since you are off cycle and PCT will help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Normal HDL levels will vary depending on the lab that it's tested in. Not to mention different states that the body is in can also affect results (I.E. illness, if you've eaten already that day, medications) In all honesty though, your lipid panel looks pretty damn good.

    A low (Out of range) HDL is much more of a concern if you have either high, or borderline high LDL levels to begin with. You total cholesterol, tri-glyceride, and LDL levels are actually pretty good.

    Which SERM did you use with your PCT? Toremifine is MUCH better on lipids overall than nolva. That in itself would help rebound your HDL levels to a good degree.

    I would pre-load that cycle support, and continue to get baseline/post cycle blood work done if you can.

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    These guys already hit on it. Bloodwork looks pretty good overall. I'd low carb it and run a bottle of niacin (1g/day NOT the flush free kind). TIME is also a great method of recovery...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Which SERM did you use with your PCT? Toremifine is MUCH better on lipids overall than nolva. That in itself would help rebound your HDL levels to a good degree.
    Thanks for taking the time to reply Trauma, I really appreciate it.

    I actually did not use a SERM after my most recent cycle...only Post Cycle Support, AX Retain and Gaspari Novedex XT. Seemed to recover fine. I always have some Nolva on hand though. Also have some Clomid. Unfortunately, I live in Canada and haven't been able to find any Toremifene (yet) but will keep trying for future cycles.

    So you don't see a problem with doing my pulse as planned in October?
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNCfan1 View Post
    Its not terrible, your LDL looks fine if I remember the ranges right. Total and Trigylcrides are ok too.

    You could hit up some niacin for a little bit, most likely cardio, eating right should help out. Since you are off cycle and PCT will help.
    Thanks UNC. I'm already doing the cardio and my diet is spot on these days. Good to know this will help!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    These guys already hit on it. Bloodwork looks pretty good overall. I'd low carb it and run a bottle of niacin (1g/day NOT the flush free kind). TIME is also a great method of recovery...
    Appreciate the reply bro. From the research I've done, I would never use the flush free or slow release types of niacin; seems they tend to be more hepatoxic than the regular kind.

    Would 1g/day be enough to impact HDL? It seems most advocate 2-3g per day as ideal in terms of improving HDL; mind you, this is also the range where it starts to affect the liver negatively.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjo View Post
    Appreciate the reply bro. From the research I've done, I would never use the flush free or slow release types of niacin; seems they tend to be more hepatoxic than the regular kind.

    Would 1g/day be enough to impact HDL? It seems most advocate 2-3g per day as ideal in terms of improving HDL; mind you, this is also the range where it starts to affect the liver negatively.
    Yes 1g would provide positive benefits directly on HDL. If you had a significant drop in LDL while using niacin that would actually be a sign of hepatoxicity. I dont recall that exact relationship however...
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    Bioavailable Testosterone


    A little off topic I know but I neglected to mention that I also got my "bioavailable" testosterone checked as part of my bloodwork. From what I can find on the Internet, "bioavailable testosterone" is the sum of free test and test that is loosely bound to albumin. Not sure what the significance of this number is but mine came out to be 299.71 nmol/L. If anyone can shed some light on this number for me (i.e. is it high/low?), I would appreciate it.
  

  
 

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