Dienolone & Boldione Testing info
07-12-2008 06:21 PM
Dienolone & Boldione Testing info
I found this article on a German website:
The US DEA did in vivo testing with dienolone and boldione (DEA Agreement No. DEA-04-P0007.) Yesterday we reported that the American DEA completed a bill which concludes that DMT, boldione, and dienolone be considered anabolic steroids. The drug agency tested the effects of dienolone, aka 19-nor-4,9(10)-androstadienedione, and boldione, aka 1,4-androstadien-3,17-dione, on rats. The most striking outcome of that study: dienolone is strange stuff.
The research workers, Alvin Matsumoto and Brett Marck, administered rat implants which delivered steady levels of the steroid hormones, and also gave rats in a control group implants without active substances (placebo). Eight weeks after the operation, the researchers looked at the effects on the animals. Boldione raised the concentration of testosterone in the rats. Could the antibodies that the research workers used for the boldione analogue have been confused with testosterone? (See Diagram below) Dienolone raised the levels of estradiol in the animals. That is logical. Dienolone seems to convert fairly easily to estrogen.
The concentrations of LH and FSH, the two driving hormones which induce the testes to produce testosterone, were diminished by the administration of both hormones. Remarkably, after the administration of dienolone the weight of the testes increased. This is seen in the figure below.
Then the researchers tested the anabolic / androgenic properties of the two steroids shown via the sizing of the prostate and the levator ani muscle of the rats, as shown in the diagram below.
From the results you would think that dienolone was a more powerful anabolic / androgen than boldione. However this was not the case. The above figures are in relation to the relative weights: the weight of the levator ani muscle and the total body weight of the rats. The rats that received dienolone had gained less weight than the other animals, but mainly because they were less willing to eat. Below you see the weight increases of the test animals. The rats who received dienolone had a larger increase in the weight of the prostate and levator ani muscle, which was not surprising. The fact that the rats who were administered dienolone had an enlargement of the testes, could not be explained. The research workers think that dienolone decreased the appetite because it converted into estradiol. In 1978, researchers discovered that androgens which convert to estradiol especially decrease ones appetite. Weight changes are shown in the diagram below.
07-12-2008 06:33 PM
I was originally mis-informed on Dienolone like many, from all crazy ads calling it a Tren precurser, etc. But the more I look into it, the weirder I find the stuff. I've seen many great reviews/logs on the stuff, but the chemical itself seems really weird. PA puts its anabolic to androgenic #'s at about 100:10.
And as most PH's have most of their activity after conversion, with very little activity pre-conversion - Dienolone seems to be the opposite. It seems very weak after conversion, especially being a dione. But it seems to be relatively potent pre-conversion.
From info I found from Bruce Kneller, it has a pretty strong relative binding affinity (RBA) for the androgen receptor at 134. The standard - testosterone has a RBA of 100. So even though it's androgenic # is pretty low, at 10, it would be a pretty potent androgen due to its affinity for the receptor.
Also as the test above states, it increased the weight of the testes after administration which is really weird. Feedback from experienced users?
07-12-2008 10:06 PM
07-12-2008 10:51 PM
Maybe I should've just made a poll asking if dienolone 'shrank' or 'enlarged' the users testes, and what the lean mass results were like. I never really had much interest in it but I suppose my 5 yr old mentality is making me more curious since it'll be gone soon.
07-13-2008 05:41 PM
This seems weird to me...I thought Estra-4,9 wasn't supposed to aromatize very easily, and looking back at PA's MD columns, that's what he says he would guess as well (little to no aromatization). So "conversion to estradiol" doesn't seem likely. I guess it's possible that it has appreciable affinity for ERs on it's own, without aromatizing, and could cause effects that way...don't know if anyone has ever investigated that...
Originally Posted by Ziquor
(As an aside, like all "tren"-ish compounds, this should have some affinity for progesterone receptors...the researchers should be aware of this and should have discussed potential roles for this pathway...)
07-13-2008 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by tilerbreaker
Most of its ads that say it doesn't aromitize are using info based on Tren. But Estra-4,9-Diene-3,17b-dione doesn't convert to Tren - as Dienolone & Tren are quite different unlike all the misleading ads.
I have PA's article where he says 'it doesn't appear from his knowledge to aromitize' but nobody really knows exactly what it is or how it works. He's also talking about indirect aromatization - after conversion to dienolone. But since it appears to have strong direct activity pre-conversion, and the fact that it's a dione, means it could easily aromatize directly.
It's a strange compound in many ways. Methyl-Dienolone has very strong progestinal activity, regular Dienolone has very minimal progestinal activity. Dienolone has a RBA of 17 at the progesterone receptor. As opposed to Methyl-D which has a RBA of 71 for the progesterone receptor. Also another thing that's strange is regular Dienolone has a much stronger binding affinity for the androgen receptor than its methylated counterpart.
07-13-2008 11:43 PM
I've never been exactly clear why people say diones convert better...other than (from what I've read) the fact that the 3-keto group is important in the reaction. So, in that sense, estra-4,9 with a 3-OH group would convert less efficiently than estra-4,9 with a 3-keto group. But it's not just as simple as dione vs. diol.
I also thought that aromatization required the C19 group but I'm not too sure about that...seems there might be another route...I'm researching that right now...I'll post more later...
Also, I don't know why people would think that this compound as a dione would have direct activity on it's own...at least at the androgen receptor. The 17-OH group is the most critical factor for AR interaction and without it, there's probably not too much AR activation. However, as I said above, there may be some PR or ER binding with this compound (just speculation), which may not require that 17-OH and so it could be active at these receptors without conversion.
09-23-2008 12:38 PM
Tren Xtreme User Feedback needed
I've been very interested in this compound as well. I hardly see much info on it regarding common side effects post cycle. I just see many cycles with amazing strength gains from products like Xtreme Tren.
Can any xtreme tren/finigenx users post their experiences. Doses/lengths of cycles/pct and results. I'm very interesting in trying this cycle but It seems hard to find a lot of concrete information regarding its sides/risks and proper post cycle therapies. Does anyone have any more information to share on dienolone/xtreme tren/finigenx?
08-02-2009 08:32 PM
bumpin this old ass thread. good info .
12-14-2009 08:15 PM
I'm gonna bump this old ass thread again, and with apologies. But truth be told, finding any good info on dienolone online is difficult at best.
I am just wrapping up 8 weeks on Testraflex which contains the same dienolone precursor. My results thus far (measured two weeks ago) are 13.9lbs fat lost, 1.9lbs muscle gained. That is after seven months of a a fairly rigorous strength program; that amount of fat loss was a total anomaly.
So am I reading the study right that dienolone actually converts to estrogen, but has anabolic effects because it binds to the estrogen receptor prior to conversion to estrogen, so it blocks estrogen uptake?
If anyone has any other ideas on where to get info on dienolone, please advise.
12-14-2009 08:48 PM
Okay here is my 2 cents.
No it doesn't covert to estrogen. But due to the high level of AR binding you are getting a release of test which can convert to estrogen, hence the increased levels of estrodiol when it was studied.
This is also why gyno can be such a concern with the use of "tren." You have introduced a progest based compound also giving it estrogen to lead to issues.
12-14-2009 09:10 PM
dienolone isn't a progestin based compound. it is a nandrolone based compound. it binds to the ar and also progestin receptor. it is said this activity can have the potential to enhance estrogenic side effects.
dienolone doesn't seem to be able to convert into estrogen based on the molecular structure. but the same is said for 1-testosterone. however, somehow the body finds a way, and it isn't known how.
liftingstud's idea sounds plausible though. but i havn't read anything on it yet.
this study is okay, after learning more about dienolone and steroids in general, i think it may have some flaws.
12-15-2009 02:30 AM
can you point me in a direction to learn more about dienolone? I've worn out google and the search function here, read damned near everything I've found, and still don't have that much good info.
Originally Posted by jbryand101b
06-01-2010 04:47 PM
01-13-2011 10:08 AM
Why is so little known about dienolone?
01-13-2011 11:59 AM
Not sure about the how or the why, but last summer I did a six week cycle of Tri city chemicals Xtreme Tren at 120mg a day. I gained solid weight, strength increased AND developed lactating gyno in my right nipple!!! Happy to say that the gyno subsided......
01-13-2011 05:54 PM
something I should pointed out. dienolone is what all the "tren" pro hormones that used to be legal converted too.
dienolone is still legal
01-13-2011 06:16 PM
Thought I would link my experience with these types of products,
1T tren questions
01-14-2011 09:30 AM
Originally Posted by jbryand101b
01-14-2011 05:39 PM
just shows, people we entrust to make out laws, dont know what they are doing.
Originally Posted by Harry Manback
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