Coming Off Anavar Cycle

carey

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I am ending a cycle of anavar, I don't want to lose any (or much) muscle, any ideas as to what I should take?

Thanks...................
 
JBlaze

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clomid at least. Do a search, i'm assuming you can get it, if not get some liquid-clomid.
 
JBlaze

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haha, a lil late now for this...
heh, it may not be! he may mean he's coming off in another 9 weeks and while he did not have the meds before hand, he knew he had plenty of time to prepare for his post cycle before hand. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

carey

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I have liquid clen, Liquid Nolva and Liquid T-3 on hand right now, is this sufficient?
 
JBlaze

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don't use liquid t-3, that'll make u lose muscle. you can use liquid nolva, and possibly clen if u want to keep the fat off but after an anavar cycle, i wouldn't.

do some research, seriously you need to use the search button and learn about the products you have and their uses.
 

HUGE

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What moron gave you that advice? :)

Clen and T3 are for cutting, the Nolva will bring back your test levels.  The thing about T3 you need to be careful about is that it might cause muscle loss, so it might be best saved until your next cylce. Clen can help keep the fat off too, and will not cause any muscle loss.
 

size

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Anavar will suppress HPTA. Nolva should be used the day after you last tab used.
 

Blatalian

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Anavar will suppress HPTA. Nolva should be used the day after you last tab used.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you size.... Correct me if I'm wrong.

Straight from BigCat's mouth:

Oxandrolone also has little effect on the body's own natural hormone production. The negative feedback was found to be very minor, meaning that during short term use no suppression of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH, start of natural testosterone production) was noted. This meant that whatever gains made, as little as they may have been, were very easily maintained post-cycle. So there was also no use for products like Clomid or Nolvadex in conjunction with oxandrolone consumption.

Note: Oxandrolone is Anavar

A little reasearch would do you well Carey. Aftreall, your health is at stake.
 

TheTom

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That's for SHORT TERM USE. Not only that, but BIGCAT doesn't specify what SHORT TERM USE is.

For all we know, what BIGCAT considers SHORT TERM USE, could be 1 week.

There's just not enough details.

Anavar will supress HPTA. The longer you use it and the higher dose you use, the more supression there will be.

Not only that but, BIGCAT has already admitted that he's made mistakes or "errors in judgement" in his older articles.
 

Matthew D

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Any good scientists will admit when they are wrong or things didn't work the way they thought they would.
 

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Wait 9 hours or so after your last tab, then begin 20 mg nolva in the morning and 50mg of clomid before bed. You shouldnt be shut down to hard, so most likely you wont lose much.
 

Blatalian

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That's for SHORT TERM USE. Not only that, but BIGCAT doesn't specify what SHORT TERM USE is.

For all we know, what BIGCAT considers SHORT TERM USE, could be 1 week.

There's just not enough details.

Anavar will supress HPTA. The longer you use it and the higher dose you use, the more supression there will be.

Not only that but, BIGCAT has already admitted that he's made mistakes or "errors in judgement" in his older articles.

Okay.. Calm down killa. ;)
In the event that BigCat is wrong, I've found this information on AnabolicRevew:

The third reason which speaks well for an intake of Oxandrolone is that even in a very high dosage this compound does not influence the body's own testosterone production. To make this clear: Oxandrolone does not suppress the body's own hormone production. The reason is that it does not have a negative feedback mechanism on the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis, meaning that during the intake of Oxandrolone, unlike during the intake of most anabolic steroids, the testes signal the hypothalamus not to reduce or to stop the release of GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone) and LHRH Luteinizing hormone releasing hormone). This special feature of Oxandrolone can be explained by the fact that the substance is not converted into estrogen Oxandrolone (Anavar), when given to normal men in high doses does not reduce the seminal volume or count, nor can it be converted (aromatized) into estrogen.
 

TheTom

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That is 100% complete BS.

Look closely how he explains his "THEORY"

It will not be supressive because it does not aromatize? That is just as rediculous as it gets.

methyl-1-test doesn't aromatize, trenbolone doesn't aromatize, winstrol doesn't aromatize.

These things are all supressive, so why not anavar?
 

Blatalian

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These things are all supressive, so why not anavar?
I don't know bro. The topic of discussion is anavar though. Each drug is different and reacts differently in the body.

But... If I was to give it a good guess (Or go to the page and actually read the material) I'd give you the following answer found at anabolicreview:

The reason is that it does not have a negative feedback mechanism on the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis, meaning that during the intake of Oxandrolone, unlike during the intake of most anabolic steroids, the testes signal the hypothalamus not to reduce or to stop the release of GnRH (gonadotropin releasing hormone) and LHRH Luteinizing hormone releasing hormone)
If you have a problem with him or what he says then debate the matter with him.

What I do, is gather information for my own personal use. I've chosen to share this info because I think it might be beneficial to someone who is interested.

If you or someone else can prove his "THEORY" wrong then please do so... it will save me problems in the future! Otherwise there is no reason to discount his "THEORY".

Thus far I haven't seen you prove your point TheTom.... No quotes and No referrences. Yet you've still managed to get 'hot-headed' with me, and I've proposed two separate and independent sources proving you WRONG
 

TheTom

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How am I being hotheaded with you?

Blatalian I never directly OR even indirectly insulted you once.

I called HIS theory BS.

I HAVEN'T EVEN REFERRED TO YOU OR ACKNOWLEDGED YOU ONCE AT ANY POINT IN ANY OF MY POSTS IN THIS THREAD!

----------------------

I'm not here to debate anything or insult anyone.

AND, I don't need ANY references when I state this sentence

"he believes Anavar will not be supressive because it doesn't aromatize"

it's just nonsensical
 

Blatalian

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That is 100% complete BS
I take that personally, as if you were referring to me and what I had to say.

Why would I post something that was BS?

And if it is BS prove it. That's the only way anyone will gain anything from this discussion.
 

John Benz

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That's for SHORT TERM USE. Not only that, but BIGCAT doesn't specify what SHORT TERM USE is.

For all we know, what BIGCAT considers SHORT TERM USE, could be 1 week.

There's just not enough details.
Plenty of detail here. You have to presume Big Cat was talking about normal "short" cycles, not abnormal ones, 1 week in duration. Let's be serious.
Anavar will supress HPTA. The longer you use it and the higher dose you use, the more supression there will be.

Not only that but, BIGCAT has already admitted that he's made mistakes or "errors in judgement" in his older articles.
Not many and not often. Big Cat's mistakes are mostly on pro-hormones. They were new. But his steroid profiles are as good as they come.
 

Matthew D

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Actually B he does make some valid points about tren, and others that don't automatize.. from experience some of those are the most suppressive of the bunch... which could be used to draw a conclusion about var... but all of us might want to use the search link at the bottom..
 

Blatalian

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"he believes Anavar will not be supressive because it doesn't aromatize"
Where did you get this from TheTom? Did you bother to read the article before you called it BS? Look up above..

That is not his reasoning behind anavar not being supressive.
 

TheTom

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Copy+Pasted from above

This special feature of Oxandrolone can be explained by the fact that the substance is not converted into estrogen Oxandrolone (Anavar),
 

Blatalian

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Does that mean that you should disregard everything else the man has to say?

But lets just say you're right...Prove it. You must have a link in mind since you feel so strongly about it... post it.
Unless you're basing your conclusion strictly on your opinion that shouldn't be a problem.

By the way has anyone actually taken anavar? What were you're results.

*Maybe this will answer some questions!*
 

Matthew D

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Well I could get someone over here but I don't think she would be able to help on the suppression much :D
 

TheTom

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Why do I need links and references to prove such a simple point?

It's a known FACT, that Trenbolone, Winstrol, Methyl-1-test, Masteron, etc etc etc DON'T aromatize and WILL suppress you!

If you need references to prove this, then sorry I don't have any. Just ask anybody on this board and they will agree.
 

Blatalian

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It's a known FACT, that Trenbolone, Winstrol, Methyl-1-test, Masteron, etc etc etc DON'T aromatize and WILL suppress you!

Since when did this topic turn to the above?

Why are you confusing anavar with other AAS's? They're not spelled similarly, they're not of the same chemical compounds, in fact the only thing that they have in common are that they are all steroids and anavar is MUCH milder than any of them. For you to say that, simply because anavar does not aromatize, it is in the same category with Trenbolone, Winstrol, Methyl-1test, and Masteron is an unproved generalization.

.
If you need references to prove this, then sorry I don't have any
Generally, from what I've seen on this board, the only way to solidly come to a conclusion is by HARD evidence.... not opinion.

Bro... you're totally missing the point... Unless you can prove that ANAVAR is supressive there's nothing else to discuss.

Once again... If anyone has taken anavar, can you share your experiences with the board? How about you carey.. did you experience any supressive symptoms?
 
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Matthew D

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Yes you need to stick with topic of Anavar and PLEASE WATCH THE TONE starting to look like you are getting a little worked up.. we are all here to learn
 

size

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HPTA suppression does occur when using anavar. I have seen bllod work to show me this. If you do not believe me then do not.

However, keep in mind that medical dosages of anavar are 2.5mg-10mg and HPTA suppression is not a major concern but rather slowing atrophy is of concern.

Typical anavar dosages for a bber is 30-60mg. At these levels suppression occurs. Take post cycle meds
 

iamcdn

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HPTA suppression does occur when using anavar. I have seen bllod work to show me this. If you do not believe me then do not.

However, keep in mind that medical dosages of anavar are 2.5mg-10mg and HPTA suppression is not a major concern but rather slowing atrophy is of concern.

Typical anavar dosages for a bber is 30-60mg. At these levels suppression occurs. Take post cycle meds
thats what ive read myself, and thats what makes sense to me. know a couple bros who took it at 40 and 50 mg daily and they were shut down


id take pct just in case anyways
 

Blatalian

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Yes Bro's...
I must now agree, although every description of the drug I've read says that it is not supressive, that evidence does point to the fact that Anavar does supress natural test production.
Post Cycle Therapy is strongly recommended.
 

size

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Here is evidence :


Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1997 Feb;46(2):209-16. Related Articles, Links


Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

Crowne EC, Wallace WH, Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM.

Department of Endocrinology, Christie Hospital Trust, Manchester, UK.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone on the pituitary-testicular and GH-IGF-I axes. DESIGN: Prospective double-blind placebo-controlled trial. PATIENTS: Sixteen boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty (CDGP) with testicular volumes 4-6 ml were randomized to 3 months treatment: Group 1 (n = 5), daily placebo: Group 2 (n = 5), 2.5 mg oxandrolone daily or Group 3 (n = 6), 50 mg testosterone monthly intramuscular injections with assessment (growth, pubertal development and overnight hormone profiles) at 0, 3, 6 and 12 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: LH and GH profiles (15-minute samples) were analysed by peak detection (Pulsar), Fourier transformation and autocorrelation. Testosterone levels were measured hourly and insulin, SHBG, IGF-I, and IGFBP-3 levels at 0800 h. Statistical analysis was by multivariate analysis of variance for repeated measures. RESULTS: LH and testosterone parameters increased significantly with time in all 16 (LH AUC, P < 0.001; peak amplitude, P = 0.02; number of peaks, P = 0.02; testosterone AUC, P = 0.02; morning testosterone, P = 0.002). In Group 2, however, LH and testosterone parameters decreased at 3 months followed by a rebound increase at 6 and 12 months. SHBG levels were markedly reduced at 3 months (P = 0.006) and a wider range of dominant GH frequencies was present although GH AUC was not increased until 6 months, with an increase in GH pulse frequency but not amplitude. IGF-I levels were increased at both 3 and 12 months. In Group 3, pituitary-testicular suppression was not apparent, but GH levels increased with an increase in GH amplitude at 3 and 12 months. CONCLUSION: Oxandrolone transiently suppressed the pituitary-testicular axis and altered GH pulsatility. Testosterone increased GH via amplitude modulation.
 

zenmonky

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getting out of a outdoor pool on a cold day will lower hpta. the dudes claiming you need nolv or clomid probably have never done oxandrolone.
 

size

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getting out of a outdoor pool on a cold day will lower hpta. the dudes claiming you need nolv or clomid probably have never done oxandrolone.
Very wrong. To each his own.
 

Matthew D

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Gee zenmonkey you seem to know a ton of information about this :rolleyes: Not really
 
Dwight Schrute

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Anavar not suppressive? LMAO


Glad I missed this one.
 

size

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Anavar not suppressive? LMAO

Glad I missed this one.
Many people believe that it is not suppressive. It seems to be a bodybuilding myth.

Simply rule in my opinion, if it works, it is supressive.
 

Blatalian

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Although I now agree that evidence does show Anavar to supress natural test production... This being a considered a bodybuilding myth isn't accurate- Many sites claim this (that Anavar is not supressive)to be fact.

Most bros that do any amount of research will come across the same drug descriptions that I have... and these articles describe anavar as NOT being supressive. (If you don't believe me check out BigCat's Steroid description and also anabolicreview.com)

I'm not trying to kick up any dust... but it is an honest and reasonable conclusion that people come to.
 

size

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Although I now agree that evidence does show Anavar to supress natural test production... This being a considered a bodybuilding myth isn't accurate- Many sites claim this (that Anavar is not supressive)to be fact.

Most bros that do any amount of research will come across the same drug descriptions that I have... and these articles describe anavar as NOT being supressive. (If you don't believe me check out BigCat's Steroid description and also anabolicreview.com)

I'm not trying to kick up any dust... but it is an honest and reasonable conclusion that people come to.
I know this and understand your point. However, there are lots of websites that claim the Loch Ness monster is real also but really it is just a myth.

Big Cat is wrong on this. I have read that profile before and it is a mistake on his part.
 
Dwight Schrute

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Big Cat has already said that many of his articles have mistakes after further research. He even shows this in the D-bol bridge debate we both had over at CEM and FG (I knew that study looked familiar, one of my favorites).

It's basically this. Exogenous hormones suppress, peroid. Some more than others but they all suppress to a degree.

In Anavar case, since it doesn't aromtize it act through 2 different pathways to suppress. First it acts on directly on the HTPA interefering with GnRH pusle frequency.

Second, nonaromatizing androgens are thought to act directly on the pituitary interfering with the gene for transciption to LH production.

Either way, your suppressed to a degree. THis goes for any nonaromatizing steroid.
 

size

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It's basically this. Exogenous hormones suppress, peroid. Some more than others but they all suppress to a degree.

Either way, your suppressed to a degree. THis goes for any nonaromatizing steroid.
Amen.
 

Blatalian

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Then again.... perhaps Nessy does exist. Thousands of people can attest to seeing it.

I'm not saying that the Loch Ness Monster does exist or not... but try to convince those people that claim to have witnessed it that it dosen't exist. You would be hard pressed to change their minds.

Just Something to think about....
I certainly wouldn't consider taking Anavar w/o PCT.
 
Dwight Schrute

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And if Nessie existed, she would agree Anavar will suppress you.

Even Nessie isn't excluded from physiology. ;)
 

Blatalian

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Since we're still on the topic of anavar... I suppose I had better go ahead and ask this question that I've been pondering over...

Can anavar, if taken in small doses, have any advantage in maintaing muscle mass post-cycle?
 
Dwight Schrute

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Of course it can help you maintain mass, but it WILL keep you suppressed. In other words, the bridge theory is bunk.
 

size

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Of course it can help you maintain mass, but it WILL keep you suppressed. In other words, the bridge theory is bunk.
Yes it is. I think of a bridge as reducing the drugs taken and using post cycle meds. So really, you never come off a cycle.
 

Blatalian

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And what's wrong with that theory?

It seems to me that the only negative side effects that come from taking AAS is Gonad Shrinkage...
(Especially pure Test esters)

So in theory.... anavar can be used as a 'Bridge' post cycle to keep gains... Just don't expect to see your balls to spontaneously grow back to normal?? Would that be correct?

By the way.. I'm going on the 5th week of my cycle... Still no ball shrinkage... Is that normal or am I lucky?
 

size

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Well, if you are never going to come off then whay not use test year round.

If you never want to come off then implementing "cruising" periods would be a better idea.

For instance,
Week 1-12- 750mg test
Week 13-16- 300mg test and HCG "cruising"
Week 17-30- 750mg test
Week 31-34- cruising again
etc.
This method would yield far better gains than anavar.


Shrinkage is different between each individual. On test only cycles under 750mg I get very little.
 

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Thanks bro... You have an answer for every question!
 

Jeff

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Here something I found on IronTrybe. Do slam me, I don't know if it is correct or not just thought it went with all of the bridging discussion

You can bridge with Dbol, Anavar, Winstrol successfully.

Here is an article behind a Dbol bridge that might give some insight:

D-bol Bridge Explained by Fonz
I've been reading some of the posts regarding this
bridge and some of them are truly from left-field.
First of, this is a BRIDGE. OK? a B-R-I-D-G-E.

Your LH function and Test levels are supposed
to RECOVER.

Ok, now having said that.
Here's the pharmo-kinetics behind Methandrostenelone,
brand name Dianabol.

10mg taken at once will increase your average testosterone level by 5 times and decrease your endogeneous cosrtisone
by 50-70%.

The reason why dianabol is a good choice for a bridge is that
its VERY anti-catabolic. It also dopaminergic. Giving you the
benefits of increased CNS strength modulation by
its androgenic mode of action.
Androgens, in case you don't know, increase neuro-muscular
function, thus STRENGTH.

OK. Now, lets delve into the metabolic chemistry behind
dianabol's choice as a bridging agent.

When are testosterone levels highest?

Answer: In the AM, thats when.

Your body releases a tesosterone spike in the morning.
This is when tesosterone levels are highest.

When are Insulin levels lowest?

Answer: In the AM thats when.

Low insulin levels=increased protein used as fuel.
(Also fat, but protein is also being converted
to glucose via glucogenesis)

OK, here is where dball's short half-life works for us
(Its 3.2-4.5 hrs btw)

Lets take Subject X.

He's in bridging mode.
He has just woken up.
The body is about to release tesosterone, thus
creating a spike.
His insulin levels are low.
His LH and test levels are very low.



He pops 10mgs of dianabol.

Here is where things get interesting.

The 10mgs of dianabol will cause a testosterone
spike WHICH COINCIDES WITH the testosterone
released ENDOGENEOUSLY in the AM by the testes.

The body will be partially fooled.
It will not entirely detect the increased levels of testosterone
(above the normal test sipke), thus LH function WILL
REMAIN only partially(Very little actually) suppressed.

In other words, he is "piggy-backing" an extra dose of testosterone on top of the endogeneously reduced one,
thus creating an "inflated" test spike.

Henceforth, LH levels WILL BE ALLOWED TO SLOWLY
RECOVER over time.
Also, dballs anti-catabolic effect will help curb protein-loss
in the morning from low insulogenic levels.

HOWEVER, and here is where almost all of you go wrong.

You CANNOT GO PAST 10mg of dianabol in the AM
for this bridge to work!!!!

Why? Because of the blood levels of dianabol you would generate.

10mg in the AM will be broken down to 5mg in about 4 hrs
(Probably less)

5mg of dianabol, is not enough to cause another rise
in testosterone levels after the precceeding one. Thus,
LH function is allowed to up-regulate.

Anything more(Say 20mgs), will cause a SEDCONDARY
testosterone spike which WILL inhibit LH function further,
thus not allowing LH function to recover.

Oh yeah...100mgs? ROTLMFAO!! Fat chance.

The difference between 20mgs and 10mgs means the difference
between allowing LH to recover slowly and not allowing it to.

So, here's the scenario summed up:

Beginning: LOW LH and test.

Adding the 10mgs dball.

LH is allowed to SLOWLY RECOVER over time as
testosterone levels are kept at a level which
will not cause muscle-loss. Also, dball's anti-catabolic effects
will reduce protein degradation.(Via cortisone
reduction)

This is what i call a double positive. You have managed to
INCREASE anabolism(Test levels) and DECREASE
catabolism(cortisone), during a bridge to boot!!

The bridge should last 8 weeks, NO LESS.
I also have to say, that it WILL NOT restore
complete LH function. It'll get you 80-90%
of the way there but the only way you're going
to get your full LH function back is if you go OFF
completely.
Anavar WILL NOT restore LH completely either btw.
(In case anybody is wondering.)
The difference is that with anavar you can take it
throughout the day and with dball it HAS TO BE
once in the AM.
 

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