CEL H-Drol & P-Plex? Advice

[Ironclad]

Ok, this will be my 9th or 10th prohormone cycle. have made good gains on a few no sides, pct, blah blah blah, I know what I'm doing, have blood work done regularly and all. One thing I don't know is, how and/or can I stack h-drol with p-plex? The most potent cycle I've done would probably be 40mg of M1t a day (only side I had was aggression) 18lbs gain LOTS of strength and bloated like a mofo, bench went from 315 x 1 to 375 x 3!

After doing M1t, triple doses of hemodrol stacked with propadrol on the last 2 weeks for a 6 week cycle did not effect me, quadruple doses of epistane for 6 weeks did not effect me nor did some other ones I tried, of course I worked my way up on doses. So now I'm hoping h-drol and p-plex will do it for me.

My very first cycle was the ORIGINAL Halodrol with the so called DMT in it and I LOVED IT, everything about it and something similar to that is what I am looking for now.

h-drol and p-plex by CEL... what do you guys think?

ps. I'm 190lbs.

 

[Cub]

How tall are you? I'd be pissed off if I was 190lbs after 10 PH/PS cycles.

 

[Ziquor]

How tall are you? I'd be pissed off if I was 190lbs after 10 PH/PS cycles.

That was my 1st question too. Otherwise why run PH/PS's? To the original question I've seen people stack both keeping a low dose of P-Plex & had great results.

 

[GMG760]

How tall are you? I'd be pissed off if I was 190lbs after 10 PH/PS cycles.

You bench 375x3 at 190 lbs? In all seriousness that's pretty impressive. :clap2:

Why all the orals by this time? I would think that I would be tired of screwing around with designers if I ran 10 cycles and was still looking for big gains. I am not suggesting this, it is just a thought, but have you ever considered the real deal? You might end up getting what you have been looking for out of that. How are your receptors doing after 10 cycles? Do you still feel you are getting worthwhile gains out of designers?

 

[Ziquor]

You bench 375x3 at 190 lbs? In all seriousness that's pretty impressive. :clap2:

Why all the orals by this time? I would think that I would be tired of screwing around with designers if I ran 10 cycles and was still looking for big gains. I am not suggesting this, it is just a thought, but have you ever considered the real deal? You might end up getting what you have been looking for out of that. How are your receptors doing after 10 cycles? Do you still feel you are getting worthwhile gains out of designers?

PH/PS or regular AAS it's all the same. After 10 cycle and being at 190 seems like you use gear as a cheat method to avoid constant, year around training. Unless you were in some sorta accident or something which if that's the case, pardon me.

 

[Condition1]

Or he's 5' 6" to 5' 8".

 

[GMG760]

Or he's 5' 6" to 5' 8".

True. 5'6" and 190 is BIG. well, depending on the BF% I guess, but if he is 190 and rocked at that height... that is one mean physique.

BTW condition, your moonanite (sp?) avatar is awesome. :thumbsup:

 

[Ziquor]

True. 5'6" and 190 is BIG. well, depending on the BF% I guess, but if he is 190 and rocked at that height... that is one mean physique.

BTW condition, your moonanite (sp?) avatar is awesome. :thumbsup:

He may be a little fella, but still 190 isn't where you wanna be after 10 cycles. Main use of hormones should be left to those with AT LEAST a couple years of straight lifting experience who've plateaued. Otherwise 99% of the time you won't keep the gains.

 

[GMG760]

He may be a little fella, but still 190 isn't where you wanna be after 10 cycles. Main use of hormones should be left to those with AT LEAST a couple years of straight lifting experience who've plateaued. Otherwise 99% of the time you won't keep the gains.

:goodpost:

You know what, come to think about it I agree. You're totally right. 10 cycles is at least a few years, I'd hope to be 230-240 by that time at my height. hitting 190 at 6' is a matter of diet.

BTW, the thought of 10 cycles of orals makes my liver quiver.

 

[Condition1]

:goodpost:

You know what, come to think about it I agree. You're totally right. 10 cycles is at least a few years, I'd hope to be 230-240 by that time at my height. hitting 190 at 6' is a matter of diet.

BTW, the thought of 10 cycles of orals makes my liver quiver.

Yeah funk 10 cycles. About the mooninite, it's too bad the movie didn't live up to the hype.

Well if indeed he was 5' 6'' just imagine 190. 10 lean pounds per inch (or am I off here?) that would put him at 250 if he was 6'. But unless he comes out and says he's sub 5' 8" we're not going to know.

 

[Ziquor]

:goodpost:

You know what, come to think about it I agree. You're totally right. 10 cycles is at least a few years, I'd hope to be 230-240 by that time at my height. hitting 190 at 6' is a matter of diet.

BTW, the thought of 10 cycles of orals makes my liver quiver.

Right on about diet. Too many people put diet and hard work aside for some quick easy gains. Which they won't keep.

 

[Ironclad]

I'm one tall asian at 5'8"....lol! I was out of the gym for about 8 months. I got up to 215lbs right before I was out and was happy. I've never measured my bf but I'm pretty lean, not rocked but nothing loose. out of the 10 designers i've only had gains from the first cycle of halo-50 and the 2 cycles of m1t. Nothing else really worked. Why I don't bump it up to the real stuff, I don't know... don't want the acne, hair loss, still want kids and I've got a pretty bad temper. With these ph's I don't get all these sides, so i'm comfortable taking them. the real stuff has been running around in my mind for the past year tho. whether I will take them or not I don't know. It's been about a year now since I've taken anything and I'm hoping this will work.

 

[Ziquor]

I'm one tall asian at 5'8"....lol! I was out of the gym for about 8 months. I got up to 215lbs right before I was out and was happy. I've never measured my bf but I'm pretty lean, not rocked but nothing loose. out of the 10 designers i've only had gains from the first cycle of halo-50 and the 2 cycles of m1t. Nothing else really worked. Why I don't bump it up to the real stuff, I don't know... don't want the acne, hair loss, still want kids and I've got a pretty bad temper. With these ph's I don't get all these sides, so i'm comfortable taking them. the real stuff has been running around in my mind for the past year tho. whether I will take them or not I don't know. It's been about a year now since I've taken anything and I'm hoping this will work.

You had no sides from M1T?

 

[Condition1]

190 at 5' 8" is damn big. I know...i'm 5' 7":drunk:

Upsides: Less is more, 75 mg of H-drol is plenty.

Downsides: Everything else...:stick:

 

[Ziquor]

190 at 5' 8" is damn big. I know...i'm 5' 7":drunk:

Upsides: Less is more, 75 mg of H-drol is plenty.

Downsides: Everything else...:stick:

Guess it depends on who you talk to. It's the most underdosed designer IMO. I know many who ran 100 and loved it, and also had substantial gains.

 

[Condition1]

Guess it depends on who you talk to. It's the most underdosed designer IMO. I know many who ran 100 and loved it, and also had substantial gains.

I mean for someone in the little fellas size range. I weigh 175 and 75mg is good for me, him being 190 this might work for him.

 

[Ziquor]

I mean for someone in the little fellas size range. I weigh 175 and 75mg is good for me, him being 190 this might work for him.

Yeah 75 would be good for the little fella range.

 

[Trauma1]

This fella liked it in the 75-100mg range.

 

[GMG760]

I'm one tall asian at 5'8"....lol! I was out of the gym for about 8 months. I got up to 215lbs right before I was out and was happy. I've never measured my bf but I'm pretty lean, not rocked but nothing loose. out of the 10 designers i've only had gains from the first cycle of halo-50 and the 2 cycles of m1t. Nothing else really worked. Why I don't bump it up to the real stuff, I don't know... don't want the acne, hair loss, still want kids and I've got a pretty bad temper. With these ph's I don't get all these sides, so i'm comfortable taking them. the real stuff has been running around in my mind for the past year tho. whether I will take them or not I don't know. It's been about a year now since I've taken anything and I'm hoping this will work.

Isn't M1T active, and doesn't that make it a steroid not a PH? Are those the only compounds you have ran?

 

[Marsh11]

This fella liked it in the 75-100mg range.

Were you close to your current weight when you ran the h drol at that amount? Figuring my dosing for a possible upcoming cycle.

 

[Trauma1]

Were you close to your current weight when you ran the h drol at that amount? Figuring my dosing for a possible upcoming cycle.

I want to say i was between 208-210lbs at the time.

 

[Ironclad]

ok, I got my shipment in today and I am wanting to take it as follows.

CEL P-Plex 30/30/45/45
CEl H-drol 0/0/75/75/100/100

5'8" at 190lbs don't know what my bf, I was told about 12%-14%

My goal is to hit 205lbs, keep 10 of 15 and become a beast for strength and shed 2-4%bf.

A bit worried about p-plex and the sides I've read about it which is why I never took superdrol. H-drol I have no worries about at all. Scared for my heart and cholesterol. I take the supporting supplements for them and diet will be on. my last m1t cycle cholesterol and bp was bad even with the supporting supplements no matter what dose, it runs in the family. I've been loading up on milk thistle and hawthorn berry before I start the cycle.

why am I taking both, tired of not getting gains with aas' after m1t cycles. Don't want to do inject just yet.

What do you guys think? change it? keep it? less? more? I know someone will tell me try one first and see how it goes then add the other, which one first? I really want this to be my last designer cycle.

Thanks guys!

 

[spshond]

I just finished a
havoc: 30/40/40/40
Hdrol: 50/75/100/100

I got great gains from it and no sides. Iam want to do it again in about 2 - 3 months but i dont want to loose the effectiveness from the cycle becuase iam using the same methyls. Do you guys think the effectiveness would not be the same?

 

[Usf97j4x4]

I don't recommend stacking the two for a couple reasons:

1) Double methyl ring a bell?
2) Both take a similar amount of time (2.5-3 weeks) before they really kick in. You could possibly bridge them with more success but even then you'd need a lot of overlap.

 

[GMG760]

I don't know which I have heard more side effects about Pplex or Superdrol... I have a bottle of each, and I really don't know rabbit hole I want to venture down first. I imagine I am gonna hit the superdrol first... but I haven't ever done anything like M1T. From what I have read both are milder as far as sides go than M1T... but I don't know that from personal experience, especially since M1T is gone from the market.

I like the idea stated above of the Epi/Hdrol combo if you were actually gonna run 2 methyls, and the bridge would probably work better since Epi kicks in much faster.

Best of luck to you on your stack... I have all of these compounds in my possession... :twisted: ... So i am looking forward to following your run and seeing your results. Time to get jacked brotha! :head:

 

[CompEdgeLabs]

ok, I got my shipment in today and I am wanting to take it as follows.

CEL P-Plex 30/30/45/45
CEl H-drol 0/0/75/75/100/100

5'8" at 190lbs don't know what my bf, I was told about 12%-14%

My goal is to hit 205lbs, keep 10 of 15 and become a beast for strength and shed 2-4%bf.

A bit worried about p-plex and the sides I've read about it which is why I never took superdrol. H-drol I have no worries about at all. Scared for my heart and cholesterol. I take the supporting supplements for them and diet will be on. my last m1t cycle cholesterol and bp was bad even with the supporting supplements no matter what dose, it runs in the family. I've been loading up on milk thistle and hawthorn berry before I start the cycle.

why am I taking both, tired of not getting gains with aas' after m1t cycles. Don't want to do inject just yet.

What do you guys think? change it? keep it? less? more? I know someone will tell me try one first and see how it goes then add the other, which one first? I really want this to be my last designer cycle.

Thanks guys!

There really isnt much feedback on your above approach, but I have to admit it is intriquing. I usually suggest against taking two methyls at once though.

If I were going to do your outline, I would probably add in some transdermal formastene when coming off the Plex.

 

[crazilyfter42]

You will be fine running it and should see great gains. I ran gxl original hd which is a combo of ergomax lmg(dmt) and halodrol and it was a great cycle. I never got a chance to run the original halodrol. Phera is pretty much the same compound as the ergomax. Strength went thru the roof and I put on about ten lbs and kept a visible six pack. I found that bringing the hdrol up to about 75mgs yielded awsome results towards the end of the cycle.

 

[Ziquor]

You will be fine running it and should see great gains. I ran gxl original hd which is a combo of ergomax lmg(dmt) and halodrol and it was a great cycle. I never got a chance to run the original halodrol. Phera is pretty much the same compound as the ergomax. Strength went thru the roof and I put on about ten lbs and kept a visible six pack. I found that bringing the hdrol up to about 75mgs yielded awsome results towards the end of the cycle.

No quite the same. When DMT was 'rediscovered' it was supplied as a compound composed of 4 parts. 2-ene isomer A, 2-ene isomer B, 3-ene Isomer A, & 3-ene isomer B. Pure DMT would be 100% 2-ene Isomer A.

2-ene Isomer A is 10-12x more anabolic than methyl-test and about 1.5x as androgenic. Isomer B of 2-ene is similar to Iso-A but it's slightly less anabolic. The 3-ene Isomers are both far inferior to 2-ene, as the 3-ene Isomers are only about 1-1.5x as anabolic as methyl test and also about 1-1.5x as androgenic.

Ergomax was 78% 3-ene and 22% 2-ene. CEL's P-Plex has always been 100% pure 2-ene, with 80-97% being Isomer A depending on the batch.

 

[GMG760]

No quite the same. When DMT was 'rediscovered' it was supplied as a compound composed of 4 parts. 2-ene isomer A, 2-ene isomer B, 3-ene Isomer A, & 3-ene isomer B. Pure DMT would be 100% 2-ene Isomer A.

2-ene Isomer A is 10-12x more anabolic than methyl-test and about 1.5x as androgenic. Isomer B of 2-ene is similar to Iso-A but it's slightly less anabolic. The 3-ene Isomers are both far inferior to 2-ene, as the 3-ene Isomers are only about 1-1.5x as anabolic as methyl test and also about 1-1.5x as androgenic.

Ergomax was 78% 3-ene and 22% 2-ene. CEL's P-Plex has always been 100% pure 2-ene, with 80-97% being Isomer A depending on the batch.

:goodpost:
Great info.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

ok, I got my shipment in today and I am wanting to take it as follows.

CEL P-Plex 30/30/45/45
CEl H-drol 0/0/75/75/100/100

5'8" at 190lbs don't know what my bf, I was told about 12%-14%

My goal is to hit 205lbs, keep 10 of 15 and become a beast for strength and shed 2-4%bf.

A bit worried about p-plex and the sides I've read about it which is why I never took superdrol. H-drol I have no worries about at all. Scared for my heart and cholesterol. I take the supporting supplements for them and diet will be on. my last m1t cycle cholesterol and bp was bad even with the supporting supplements no matter what dose, it runs in the family. I've been loading up on milk thistle and hawthorn berry before I start the cycle.

why am I taking both, tired of not getting gains with aas' after m1t cycles. Don't want to do inject just yet.

What do you guys think? change it? keep it? less? more? I know someone will tell me try one first and see how it goes then add the other, which one first? I really want this to be my last designer cycle.

Thanks guys!

THAT is a LOT of methyls for 2 weeks. I hope you have something better than "liv 52" for support lined up.

:hot:

 

[tilerbreaker]

I don't recommend stacking the two for a couple reasons:

1) Double methyl ring a bell?

This whole "double methyl" being bad thing seems a little weird to me, especially when you are talking to someone who (apparently) has experience with a number of PHs/DSs.

The "toxicity" of C17-methyl compounds doesn't directly relate to how many milligrams you take...it depends on how potent the steroid is on a mg/kg basis, as well as the duration of time the drug is taken. And nobody knows if it's a linear or non-linear relationship (i.e. is 60 mg of superdrol 2X as toxic as 30 mg, or is it 4X as toxic or worse?).

A little research will tell you that h-drol is mild at 100 mg/day and maybe up to 150 or 200 mg/day, so it isn't very potent, and thus not very toxic. P-plex is a little more potent, but still not extremely so for many people. My point is that 100 mg h-drol + 50 mg p-plex may not be even as toxic as 20 mg superdrol.

(BTW, I've seen more posts than I can count where someone says something like superdrol is so much worse b/c it is double methylated, which is totally wrong, as the problems with methyls comes solely from the C17 group methyl).

I'm not saying that this is what you are saying, and I know from reading a lot of your posts on here and DA that you know all this, but I think that saying 'two methyls is bad' discourages people from learning how these compounds work and how they can "safely" (as it's all relative) use them.

I do think that starting slow and not stacking different compounds is good advice for beginners, but not so much for more experienced people.

 

[tilerbreaker]

No quite the same. When DMT was 'rediscovered' it was supplied as a compound composed of 4 parts. 2-ene isomer A, 2-ene isomer B, 3-ene Isomer A, & 3-ene isomer B. Pure DMT would be 100% 2-ene Isomer A.

2-ene Isomer A is 10-12x more anabolic than methyl-test and about 1.5x as androgenic. Isomer B of 2-ene is similar to Iso-A but it's slightly less anabolic. The 3-ene Isomers are both far inferior to 2-ene, as the 3-ene Isomers are only about 1-1.5x as anabolic as methyl test and also about 1-1.5x as androgenic.

Ergomax was 78% 3-ene and 22% 2-ene. CEL's P-Plex has always been 100% pure 2-ene, with 80-97% being Isomer A depending on the batch.

Yeah, but nobody really knows how much of which was found in the original halodrol-50. Catlin found it and PA said (I believe) ~ 30% was DMT (probably mixed isomers as you explain above), but BK always argued that it was a small amount, if any. To this day, no one is really sure.

 

[Ironclad]

This whole "double methyl" being bad thing seems a little weird to me, especially when you are talking to someone who (apparently) has experience with a number of PHs/DSs.

The "toxicity" of C17-methyl compounds doesn't directly relate to how many milligrams you take...it depends on how potent the steroid is on a mg/kg basis, as well as the duration of time the drug is taken. And nobody knows if it's a linear or non-linear relationship (i.e. is 60 mg of superdrol 2X as toxic as 30 mg, or is it 4X as toxic or worse?).

A little research will tell you that h-drol is mild at 100 mg/day and maybe up to 150 or 200 mg/day, so it isn't very potent, and thus not very toxic. P-plex is a little more potent, but still not extremely so for many people. My point is that 100 mg h-drol + 50 mg p-plex may not be even as toxic as 20 mg superdrol.

(BTW, I've seen more posts than I can count where someone says something like superdrol is so much worse b/c it is double methylated, which is totally wrong, as the problems with methyls comes solely from the C17 group methyl).

I'm not saying that this is what you are saying, and I know from reading a lot of your posts on here and DA that you know all this, but I think that saying 'two methyls is bad' discourages people from learning how these compounds work and how they can "safely" (as it's all relative) use them.

I do think that starting slow and not stacking different compounds is good advice for beginners, but not so much for more experienced people.

Totally agree with this. I stacked 100mg of the first batch of Halo-50 with Orastan-A which made it 2 methyls at the same time and was no where close to how 20 mg of m1t made me feel. So I do believe I will be ok with p-plex @ 45mg and h-drol @ 100mg bridged after 2 weeks. I've got another week of loading then it's on like donkey kong:bow28:


this is my plan...
week 1: P-Plex 30mg
week 2: P-Plex 30mg
week 3: P-Plex 45mg H-drol 75mg
week 4: P-Plex 45mg H-drol 75mg
week 5: H-drol 100mg
week 6: H-drol 100mg

I was also thinking kicking in the h-drol on the 4th week but don't want to have too long of a gap in between, I'll have an
anti-e started on week 3 out to week 7... or should I just wait until after the whole cycle? Halo-50 never gave me gyno. I was also debated whether i should start with 15mg week 1, 30mg week 2&3 then 45mg week 4. I hear the actualy purity of p-plex of the batch I have is at 19.6mg a pill.

But then someone on the boards were talking about they stacked the 2 for the whole cycle, now that sounds like fun!

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Totally agree with this. I stacked 100mg of the first batch of Halo-50 with Orastan-A which made it 2 methyls at the same time and was no where close to how 20 mg of m1t made me feel. So I do believe I will be ok with p-plex @ 45mg and h-drol @ 100mg bridged after 2 weeks. I've got another week of loading then it's on like donkey kong:bow28:


this is my plan...
week 1: P-Plex 30mg
week 2: P-Plex 30mg
week 3: P-Plex 45mg H-drol 75mg
week 4: P-Plex 45mg H-drol 75mg
week 5: H-drol 100mg
week 6: H-drol 100mg

I was also thinking kicking in the h-drol on the 4th week but don't want to have too long of a gap in between, I'll have an
anti-e started on week 3 out to week 7... or should I just wait until after the whole cycle? Halo-50 never gave me gyno. I was also debated whether i should start with 15mg week 1, 30mg week 2&3 then 45mg week 4. I hear the actualy purity of p-plex of the batch I have is at 19.6mg a pill.

But then someone on the boards were talking about they stacked the 2 for the whole cycle, now that sounds like fun!

Your not going to "feel" your liver when its stressed. So that is a pretty absurd way to gauge things. M1T made you feel like hell because it shut you down, not because of its liver toxicity

 

[Usf97j4x4]

This whole "double methyl" being bad thing seems a little weird to me, especially when you are talking to someone who (apparently) has experience with a number of PHs/DSs.

The "toxicity" of C17-methyl compounds doesn't directly relate to how many milligrams you take...it depends on how potent the steroid is on a mg/kg basis, as well as the duration of time the drug is taken. And nobody knows if it's a linear or non-linear relationship (i.e. is 60 mg of superdrol 2X as toxic as 30 mg, or is it 4X as toxic or worse?).

A little research will tell you that h-drol is mild at 100 mg/day and maybe up to 150 or 200 mg/day, so it isn't very potent, and thus not very toxic. P-plex is a little more potent, but still not extremely so for many people. My point is that 100 mg h-drol + 50 mg p-plex may not be even as toxic as 20 mg superdrol.

(BTW, I've seen more posts than I can count where someone says something like superdrol is so much worse b/c it is double methylated, which is totally wrong, as the problems with methyls comes solely from the C17 group methyl).

I'm not saying that this is what you are saying, and I know from reading a lot of your posts on here and DA that you know all this, but I think that saying 'two methyls is bad' discourages people from learning how these compounds work and how they can "safely" (as it's all relative) use them.

I do think that starting slow and not stacking different compounds is good advice for beginners, but not so much for more experienced people.

How can you say the amount of a c17 methylated product does not make a difference at all? Your liver still has to process x amount of it. More to process --> more potential for damage

Did I read your post right or am I losing it (I leave work in 15 minutes, insanity is quite possible)

 

[Usf97j4x4]

I hear the actualy purity of p-plex of the batch I have is at 19.6mg a pill.

I believe it is 19.2, and that is MG/cap

Qualitative is as follows
79.2% a isomer
20.8% b isomer

 

[tilerbreaker]

How can you say the amount of a c17 methylated product does not make a difference at all? Your liver still has to process x amount of it. More to process --> more potential for damage

Did I read your post right or am I losing it (I leave work in 15 minutes, insanity is quite possible)

You're not losing it...I didn't exactly say it doesn't make any difference at all. But I do think that it is not directly related in a 1:1 way as you say here:

More to process --> more potential for damage

It's this that I don't think is quite right (not necessarily wrong, but not the full picture). If it was solely a matter of mg intake, all C17s should be approximately equal. While there are minor structural differences in all the different orals, their molecular weights are not dramatically different (range is about 290 g/mol - 330 g/mol). This would result in pretty small differences in the number of actual steroid molecules per mg for various compounds. If your reasoning was correct, 10 mg of superdrol should (in the average user, will obviously differ among individuals) have the same effect (on the liver) as 10 mg h-drol. But this isn't typically the case.

For example, though I couldn't provide you with links to numbers, I'm sure there are people here or at BB.com or DA that have had liver values taken with different compounds and had really different results. Now there could be many things to account for this, but I think it's reasonable to assume that the main reason is that the compound itself had different effects...the compound matters.

One theory is that toxicity roughly correlates with androgenicity...I believe PA has stated as much several times. What may be the case is that a combination of a highly androgenic (and potent) compound and/or its metabolites have actions in the liver that exacerbate the general toxicity that comes from build up of the processed steroid. (I'm not sure I explained that too well...let me know). This would explain why a compound like h-drol, which has very little androgenicity, has low toxicity.

However, I'm not totally sure this is the whole story either, b/c the if the charts you can find on anabolic:androgenic ratios are right, it doesn't completely reflect what people generally consider safer vs. more dangerous compounds.

Anyway, sorry for being long winded...good discussion.

(BTW, I am not saying these drugs aren't hard on your liver, they are and you should use them carefully and responsibly (NO ABUSE) along with liver protectants. I'm just that you have to really analyze compound by compound, esp when you start talking about stacking, etc.)

 

[Usf97j4x4]

If your reasoning was correct, 10 mg of superdrol should (in the average user, will obviously differ among individuals) have the same effect (on the liver) as 10 mg h-drol. But this isn't typically the case.

See, thats wasnt quite what I was trying to argue, I guess I should have worded it better. I agree with what you put above.. but when the user uses 100 megs of h-drol it could be just as bad as 10 mgs of superdrol. So... how mild is H-Drol compared to P-Plex? I have no idea but he's talking about running the high end of the spectrum of both of them for 2 weeks... its risky IMO.

 

[tilerbreaker]

See, thats wasnt quite what I was trying to argue, I guess I should have worded it better. I agree with what you put above.. but when the user uses 100 megs of h-drol it could be just as bad as 10 mgs of superdrol. So... how mild is H-Drol compared to P-Plex? I have no idea but he's talking about running the high end of the spectrum of both of them for 2 weeks... its risky IMO.

Yeah, I agree with that and I wish, that with years of reports on all these boards, there were a way to put together a chart of relative "harshness." But I'm not going to attempt that....

My point was really that I see a lot of people just off hand disregard the possibility of stacking two methylated compounds as stupid and dangerous. I'm just trying to get people to actually think about it and consider that it CAN be stupid and dangerous, but it CAN ALSO be safe and highly effective, depending on how you do it.

I agree that his plan is on the high end of what you see people taking for both compounds, so maybe backing off would be good. The ideal thing is to find the exact dose that is as much as you need and not more. But that's hard to do.

The other thing to consider, of course, is body weight. Somebody who is 175 lbs taking 100 mg is very different than someone who is 225 lbs (and as I write this I'm not looking back to see what the OPs weight is). And I suspect, though I have NO proof of this, that the more muscular you are for a given weight, the higher the dose you might need.

Edit: So he's 5' 8" and 190...pretty big for height, but not really heavy, so maybe the 100 and 45 is too much and he should max at 100 and 30 or 75 and 30?

The other option, which I found in some of the original superdrol writeups, is to take an extra dose on workout days. So say you go 75 h-drol the whole time, with 30 p-plex on off days and 45 on on days...

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Yeah, I agree with that and I wish, that with years of reports on all these boards, there were a way to put together a chart of relative "harshness." But I'm not going to attempt that....

My point was really that I see a lot of people just off hand disregard the possibility of stacking two methylated compounds as stupid and dangerous. I'm just trying to get people to actually think about it and consider that it CAN be stupid and dangerous, but it CAN ALSO be safe and highly effective, depending on how you do it.

I agree that his plan is on the high end of what you see people taking for both compounds, so maybe backing off would be good. The ideal thing is to find the exact dose that is as much as you need and not more. But that's hard to do.

The other thing to consider, of course, is body weight. Somebody who is 175 lbs taking 100 mg is very different than someone who is 225 lbs (and as I write this I'm not looking back to see what the OPs weight is). And I suspect, though I have NO proof of this, that the more muscular you are for a given weight, the higher the dose you might need.

Edit: So he's 5' 8" and 190...pretty big for height, but not really heavy, so maybe the 100 and 45 is too much and he should max at 100 and 30 or 75 and 30?

The other option, which I found in some of the original superdrol writeups, is to take an extra dose on workout days. So say you go 75 h-drol the whole time, with 30 p-plex on off days and 45 on on days...

Couldn't agree more... I enjoyed the banter. Since I do represent CEL I tend to make my suggestions on the more conservative side. I don't want some kid going jaundice and saying WELL USF TOLD ME IT WAS OK AND I WOULD GET HYOOG !!!

I have done some 'reckless' cycling.. I just don't recommend it to others!

 

[tilerbreaker]

Couldn't agree more... I enjoyed the banter. Since I do represent CEL I tend to make my suggestions on the more conservative side. I don't want some kid going jaundice and saying WELL USF TOLD ME IT WAS OK AND I WOULD GET HYOOG !!!

I have done some 'reckless' cycling.. I just don't recommend it to others!

Absolutely. Better safe than sorry for sure. Enjoyed it too, and just so you know, some of your and Voodoo's past posts were instrumental to an ongoing effort to know exactly WTF is in Trenadrol (there's like 3 active threads on it at BB.com). I know, I know, waste of time...the end result is still a bunch of "I better buy this before it gets banned...I herd it's good sh^t!"...

 

[CompEdgeLabs]

I believe it is 19.2, and that is MG/cap

Qualitative is as follows
79.2% a isomer
20.8% b isomer

that occured on one specific batch; therefore for that batch, there was 15 mg A isomer

 

[tilerbreaker]

No quite the same. When DMT was 'rediscovered' it was supplied as a compound composed of 4 parts. 2-ene isomer A, 2-ene isomer B, 3-ene Isomer A, & 3-ene isomer B. Pure DMT would be 100% 2-ene Isomer A.

2-ene Isomer A is 10-12x more anabolic than methyl-test and about 1.5x as androgenic. Isomer B of 2-ene is similar to Iso-A but it's slightly less anabolic. The 3-ene Isomers are both far inferior to 2-ene, as the 3-ene Isomers are only about 1-1.5x as anabolic as methyl test and also about 1-1.5x as androgenic.

Ergomax was 78% 3-ene and 22% 2-ene. CEL's P-Plex has always been 100% pure 2-ene, with 80-97% being Isomer A depending on the batch.

Hey Ziquor, could you point me to sources of this info...I'm wondering if the differences in isoform A and B for both is that B doesn't have the 17a methyl group?

Thanks...

 

[Ziquor]

Hey Ziquor, could you point me to sources of this info...I'm wondering if the differences in isoform A and B for both is that B doesn't have the 17a methyl group?

Thanks...

I'm not quite sure what info you're looking for specifically? If a chemical has a 17a methyl group attached, it would effect all active isomers that are involved.

 

[tilerbreaker]

From what I've been finding, pheraplex (and clones) is usually some mixture of the following compounds, with the first being the most active:

17a-methyl-5a-androst-2-en-17b-ol (A isomer)
17a-methyl-5a-androst-3-en-17b-ol (B isomer)
5a-androst-2-en-17b-ol
5a-androst-3-en-17b-ol

The thing I'm not sure about is the A/B isomer thing.

I think this paragraph may be from Llewellyn's Anabolics, but I'm not sure:

Manufacture of this unique steroid is not extremely easy. The first hints of this came from the World Anti-Doping Agency, who reported that the confiscated sample of DMT was shown to be very impure upon analysis. It was principally comprised of four different steroidal components, DMT, its unmethylated analog, and isomers of these two steroids bearing a 3-ene structure instead of 2-ene. DMT is likely the only effective anabolic steroid in the group, making it obvious the blend is an issue of manufacturing contamination and not functionality. The same issue appeared again when Don Catlin and his staff at the UCLA Olympic Analytical Laboratory began working on methods for detecting DMT in urine. The procedure required they obtained samples of DMT to work with, which was accomplished by chemically modifying the available starting material 5-alpha-androst?2-ene-17-one. Even the laboratory material they had to work with was shown to be a mixture of both 2-ene and 3?ene isomers (in approximately a 4:1 ratio) upon analysis, and unexpected but now obviously consistent result. It is unknown if any pure DMT product has been produced to date, so the same purity issues are likely to appear in other (perhaps all) DMT-containing products.

This goes along with what I wrote above. The part where I think I may be wrong is that it could be that the methyls are both "A isomers" and that the non-methyls are both "B isomers."

Edit: But the info I was looking for is where you got the different anabolic:androgenic ratings for the various isoforms.

 

[crazilyfter42]

No quite the same. When DMT was 'rediscovered' it was supplied as a compound composed of 4 parts. 2-ene isomer A, 2-ene isomer B, 3-ene Isomer A, & 3-ene isomer B. Pure DMT would be 100% 2-ene Isomer A.

2-ene Isomer A is 10-12x more anabolic than methyl-test and about 1.5x as androgenic. Isomer B of 2-ene is similar to Iso-A but it's slightly less anabolic. The 3-ene Isomers are both far inferior to 2-ene, as the 3-ene Isomers are only about 1-1.5x as anabolic as methyl test and also about 1-1.5x as androgenic.

Ergomax was 78% 3-ene and 22% 2-ene. CEL's P-Plex has always been 100% pure 2-ene, with 80-97% being Isomer A depending on the batch.

Thats some good info man. I realize that they are different and the 2 ene A isomer is better but they still are similiar compounds thats why I made the comparison. I have been looking forward to running p-plex considering I have the overdosed lot # too. With the great results I got with the inferiour isomer it should only be more interesting. Its def going to be included during my bulk this coming winter.

 

[Ziquor]

From what I've been finding, pheraplex (and clones) is usually some mixture of the following compounds, with the first being the most active:

17a-methyl-5a-androst-2-en-17b-ol (A isomer)
17a-methyl-5a-androst-3-en-17b-ol (B isomer)
5a-androst-2-en-17b-ol
5a-androst-3-en-17b-ol

The thing I'm not sure about is the A/B isomer thing.

I think this paragraph may be from Llewellyn's Anabolics, but I'm not sure:



This goes along with what I wrote above. The part where I think I may be wrong is that it could be that the methyls are both "A isomers" and that the non-methyls are both "B isomers."

Edit: But the info I was looking for is where you got the different anabolic:androgenic ratings for the various isoforms.

PA said something similar about the difficulty of isolating pure 2-ene isomer A. He said the process is difficult and expensive compared to selling blends. There's a few places that have some good info on 3-ene and/or the comparison of 2-ene vs 3-ene. MD has a couple in its archives and PA posted about the differences in an older copy as well but it doesn't seem to be on their site's archives. This article below has some good info about the processes, though it may be the one you seen. There were also 2 great .pdf files from the original releases of Ergo and Phera that had some great #'s.


http://www.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/146/116/