Poll: Finasteride or NOT to Finasteride. That is the Question

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Finasteride or NOT to Finasteride

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    Finasteride or NOT to Finasteride


    I am going to be running my first injectable cycle. Hair loss is not common in my family. There has never been a man or woman go bald, or revealing skin where hair would normally fall into place. The most common genetics are the "salt n' pepper" color which happen around 35-40 years of age

    Im trying to decide if finasteride is a necessity for me to add to the cycle.

    Post Your Opinions. Dosing schedules, benefits, compliment stacks. etc.

    Below is an Explanation for any of you who are looking for an answer in the same field or who are new to finasteride and are curious about its cons/pros.

    Finasteride (marketed as Proscar, Propecia, Fincar, Finpecia, Finax, Finast, Finara, Finalo, Prosteride, Gefina, Finasterid IVAX, Finasterid Alternova) is an antiandrogen which acts by inhibiting type II 5-alpha reductase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). It is used as a treatment in benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) in low doses, and prostate cancer in higher doses. It is also indicated for use in combination with doxazosin therapy to reduce the risk for symptomatic progression of BPH. Additionally, it is registered in many countries for androgenetic alopecia (male-pattern baldness).

    Finasteride was approved initially in 1992 as Proscar, a treatment for prostate enlargement, but the sponsor had studied 1 mg of finasteride and demonstrated hair growth in male pattern hair loss. On December 22, 1997, the FDA approved finasteride to treat male pattern hair loss.

    The Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial (PCPT) showed at a dosage of 5mg per day, as is commonly prescribed for BPH, though much higher than the 1mg generally prescribed for hair loss, participants taking finasteride were 25% less likely to have developed prostate cancer at the end of the trial compared to those taking a placebo.[1] Further, finasteride increased the specificity and selectivity of prostate cancer detection, thus, a seemly increased rate of high Gleason grade tumor.

    Recognized side effects, experienced by around >1% of users, include erectile dysfunction, and less often gynecomastia (breast gland enlargement).[1] As expected from its short 6-8 hour half-life, in trial studies, side effects ceased after dosage was discontinued

    Side effects

    Finasteride is not indicated for use by women. Finasteride is in the FDA pregnancy category X. This means that it is known to cause birth defects in an unborn baby. Women who are or who may become pregnant must not handle crushed or broken finasteride tablets, because the medication could be absorbed through the skin. Finasteride is known to cause birth defects in a developing male baby. Exposure to whole tablets should be avoided whenever possible, however exposure to whole tablets is not expected to be harmful as long as the tablets are not swallowed. It is not known whether finasteride passes into breast milk, and thus should not be taken by breastfeeding women. Finasteride may pass into the semen of men, but Merck states that a pregnant woman's contact with the semen of a man taking finasteride is not an issue for concern.[4]

    Finasteride has been linked with depression.[5] The drug also caused reductions in allopregnanolone, a potent, endogenous positive modulator of the GABA-A receptor, in very large doses in rodent studies.[6]

    Finasteride can also be used to mask steroid abuse, and many professional sports have banned finasteride use for this reason.[7]

    Finasteride is under investigation by the Swedish Medical Products Agency for possibly causing irreversible sexual side effects.[8]

    Use as a treatment for hair loss

    In a 5-year study of men with mild to moderate hair loss, 48% of those treated with Propecia (finasteride 1mg) experienced some regrowth of hair, and 42% had no further loss. Average hair count in the treatment group remained above baseline, and showed an increasing difference from hair count in the placebo group, for all five years of the study.[2] Propecia is effective only for as long as it is taken; the hair gained or maintained is lost within 6-12 months of ceasing therapy.[9] In clinical studies, Propecia, like minoxidil, was shown to work on both the crown area and the hairline,[10] but is most successful in the crown area.

    Some users, in an effort to save money, buy Proscar instead of Propecia, and split the Proscar pills to approximate the Propecia dosage. Doing so is generally considered unadvisable if women of pregnancy age are in the household; this is because finasteride, even in small concentrations, can cause birth defects in a developing male fetus. The birth defects involve the development of male genitalia (no such effects have been noted in developing female fetuses). On most product inserts, it will be mentioned that the dust or crumbs from broken Propecia tablets should be kept away from pregnant women.

    Propecia has been shown to be ineffective for treating hair loss in women.[citation needed] However, Propecia's supporters respond that the study was on post-menopausal women whose hair loss was more likely related to the loss of estrogen versus a sensitivity to testosterone. Many doctors prescribe it for women, but not without either careful birth control measures or assurance that the woman cannot become pregnant.

    Possible health concerns


    The UC Berkeley Wellness Letter expressed concern in March 2003 about the unproven long-term safety of Propecia and recommended cutting a standard 1 milligram dose of Propecia into quarters to reduce the cost without reducing its effectiveness. This claim appears to be supported by clinical pharmacological data reviewed by the FDA during Propecia's approval process that suggested that the advantage of taking 1 mg per day over 0.2 mg per day is statisticially small.[11] Some people have unsuccessfully petitioned the FDA to re-examine the approved dosage in light of the statistical evidence and unknown long-term risks.[12] The FDA responded and said that just because the level of DHT found in the scalp was not significantly different does not mean there is a correlation with hair loss. A study would have to show that the benefits of using 0.2 mg and 1 mg were not statistically different. According to the FDA such a study has been performed and a 1 mg dose has a greater benefit whilst remaining equally safe. The same study also concluded that doses of 0.01 mg per day were found to be ineffective in treating hair loss.[12]

    In the Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial (PCPT), 25 percent fewer men taking the drug finasteride developed prostate cancer than men not taking the drug. However, men who developed prostate cancer while taking finasteride were more likely to have high-grade cancers, which can spread quickly even if the tumors are small. [13]

    Propecia's effects in detail

    DHT is a derivative hormone (metabolite) of testosterone that has been shown to be critical to the initiation and progression of follicular miniaturization and eventual destruction of hair follicles in male pattern baldness. DHT is a steroid hormone just like testosterone but with greater affinity for the androgen receptor. Converting testosterone to DHT thus increases many of its effects.

    While the mechanism by which DHT is involved in hair loss is not confirmed, many dermatologists and research scientists specializing in hair loss believe DHT molecules may diffuse into the interior of hair follicle cells (the cytoplasm or cytosol) and bind with androgen receptors. This complex, both the receptor and the DHT molecule, then enters the nucleus of the cell. In the nucleus of the hair follicle cell this complex could then alter the rate of protein synthesis in men who are genetically predisposed to baldness.[citation needed]

    However, DHT also plays an important role in the functioning of the central nervous system (the brain), the testicles and prostate, and almost everything but muscle tissue. In muscle tissue testosterone is the dominant hormone, which is why some bodybuilders inject testosterone derivatives to aid in muscular development.

    * Propecia (and other products containing finasteride) causes a rise in testosterone levels, because testosterone that would normally be converted into DHT remains testosterone. Continual high levels of testosterone in the body could possibly have negative side effects.

    * Artificially low levels of DHT in the body could cause some unwanted conditions. DHT is an antagonist of estrogen. Men’s bodies also produce the female hormone estrogen in the adrenal glands, although this is just one-tenth of the estrogen that premenopausal women produce in their ovaries. By reducing DHT with drugs, a man’s protection from the effects of estrogen may also be reduced. This could result in gynecomastia.

    * Even though both finasteride and dutasteride were developed to combat benign prostatic hyperplasia by reducing DHT in prostate tissue, some scientists question the wisdom of using these 5-alpha reductase inhibitors in younger men who have no problem with their prostates. A research chemist, Patrick Arnold, says “Evidence is mounting that the existence of a high estrogen/androgen ratio – a condition common in older men – is highly correlated with the development of benign prostatic hyperplasia.”[citation needed] However, in apparent contradiction, individuals with 5-alpha-reductase deficiency (and thus a similar hormonal profile to users of DHT inhibitors) do not experience BPH.

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    I just ran a 6 week phera-vol/m-drol bridge. I ran finasteride throughout because I was worried that I would encounter some shedding. I didn't see any shedding, and in fact....I think my hairline has filled in some. At least that's what my gf says.....I am a believer!

    C_
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    i used it on last cycle, but after reading that its under investagation for permenint sexual diffunction im kinda worried
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    I would rather be bald and have a working d!ck than a full head of hair and silly putty.

    Propecia is effective only for as long as it is taken; the hair gained or maintained is lost within 6-12 months of ceasing therapy.
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    finasteride is only effective with steroids that can interact with the 5-alpha reductase enzime like test, if 5-alpha reduced steroids are used (like superdrol, winstrol, etc) its a complete waste of money cause it will do absolutely nothing to stop hair loss caused by these androgens
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    Ive gotten hundreds of emails from guys who have used finasteride, and now regret it because of sexual dysfunction, gyno, depression, and overall flabby appearance from suppressed DHT levels.

    By the time you realize it was a mistake, it’s generally too late, as the side effects take years to reverse. I wouldnt mess with this drug unless you’re under very close supervision and taking a very low dose.

    If you want to help protect your hair, weve had a lot of guys have success with our Toco-8 product. It works by protecting the hair through anti-oxidant mechanisms and promoting increased blood flow to the scalp.

    -Pp
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    From my understanding Toco-8 is a alternative to fina. However, doesn't hair regrowth with Toco-8 cease and go away after use as well?

    Also, 30$ a month, any special deals if I promise you 4 months. PM ME.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheeBC View Post
    From my understanding Toco-8 is a alternative to fina. However, doesn't hair regrowth with Toco-8 cease and go away after use as well?

    Also, 30$ a month, any special deals if I promise you 4 months. PM ME.
    Same thing happens with Fina/Minoxidil too. And you are either using research chems or prescribed this and it adds up.

    1$/day for Toco-8 seems like decent deal if it does what its supposed to do (regrow hair among other things) and doesn't cause the issues that Finasteride has associated with it.
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    yeah, just another 100 bucks plus their recovery kit. eh!!!!! that'll be $1400
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheeBC View Post
    From my understanding Toco-8 is a alternative to fina. However, doesn't hair regrowth with Toco-8 cease and go away after use as well?

    Also, 30$ a month, any special deals if I promise you 4 months. PM ME.
    It can be used in conjunction with Finesteride if you want, but its mechanism are really totally different than finasteride so it probably shouldn’t be considered a total alternative. Finasteride is a very powerful drug.

    As with anything that encourages good health, the benefits usually stop when you stop the good habits. However, unlike finasteride, you won’t suffer from side-effects with Toco-8 (only improved overall health)

    SPONSOR10 will save you 10%, and we offer free shipping for orders over $100…

    -Pp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Ive gotten hundreds of emails from guys who have used finasteride, and now regret it because of sexual dysfunction, gyno, depression, and overall flabby appearance from suppressed DHT levels.

    By the time you realize it was a mistake, it’s generally too late, as the side effects take years to reverse. I wouldnt mess with this drug unless you’re under very close supervision and taking a very low dose.

    If you want to help protect your hair, weve had a lot of guys have success with our Toco-8 product. It works by protecting the hair through anti-oxidant mechanisms and promoting increased blood flow to the scalp.

    -Pp

    Are the majority of these people that complain about sexual dysfunction, gyno, and depression taking/have taken anabolic substances? If so, I think that the possibility of these symptoms being caused by other substances should be mentioned.

    The below information comes from the package insert for Propecia and will provide you with the numbers. These are results after the medication was taken for one year.
    1)Decreased libido-1.8%
    2)Erectile Dysfunction-1.3%
    3)Ejaculation disorder-1.2%
    4)Decreased volume of ejaculate-0.8%
    A total of 3.8% of men reported one or more of the side effects listed above.
    Resolution occurred in all men who discontinued therapy and in 58% of men who continued therapy.
    It takes daily use of propecia for three months to see an effect and continued use is recommended to sustain benefit. Once you stop taking the medication, reversal of the effect(benefit) will occur within 12 months.

    C_
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    I took proscar tabs for over a year and never had sexual problems. I split them in 4 pieces, so I was taking 1.25 mg. finasteride / day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by callaway View Post
    Are the majority of these people that complain about sexual dysfunction, gyno, and depression taking/have taken anabolic substances? If so, I think that the possibility of these symptoms being caused by other substances should be mentioned.

    The below information comes from the package insert for Propecia and will provide you with the numbers. These are results after the medication was taken for one year.
    1)Decreased libido-1.8%
    2)Erectile Dysfunction-1.3%
    3)Ejaculation disorder-1.2%
    4)Decreased volume of ejaculate-0.8%
    A total of 3.8% of men reported one or more of the side effects listed above.
    Resolution occurred in all men who discontinued therapy and in 58% of men who continued therapy.
    It takes daily use of propecia for three months to see an effect and continued use is recommended to sustain benefit. Once you stop taking the medication, reversal of the effect(benefit) will occur within 12 months.

    C_
    You also need to wonder about their test subjects. If these are 'average' 40+ yo men with naturally reduced test and not on TRT, could they not already have lowered libido, slight depression, etc? Would they notice if their libido went further into the tank? Overweight, middle aged men might not pick up on 'gyno' either.

    I don't know. Maybe I've read too many horror stories from various boards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheeBC View Post
    yeah, just another 100 bucks plus their recovery kit. eh!!!!! that'll be $1400
    Welcome to the darkside...
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    Quote Originally Posted by callaway View Post
    Are the majority of these people that complain about sexual dysfunction, gyno, and depression taking/have taken anabolic substances? If so, I think that the possibility of these symptoms being caused by other substances should be mentioned.

    The below information comes from the package insert for Propecia and will provide you with the numbers. These are results after the medication was taken for one year.
    1)Decreased libido-1.8%
    2)Erectile Dysfunction-1.3%
    3)Ejaculation disorder-1.2%
    4)Decreased volume of ejaculate-0.8%
    A total of 3.8% of men reported one or more of the side effects listed above.
    Resolution occurred in all men who discontinued therapy and in 58% of men who continued therapy.
    It takes daily use of propecia for three months to see an effect and continued use is recommended to sustain benefit. Once you stop taking the medication, reversal of the effect(benefit) will occur within 12 months.

    C_
    I get A LOT of emails, and each case is different, but I can tell you for sure that finasteride is major contributor of the above mentioned side effects. Sometimes the patient doesn’t even know it. They say “My body appearance has gotten very flabby and I’m carrying more fat around the chest area in the past 6 months”… and I ask “have you recently started finasteride?” Well, guess what…

    Those numbers from the package insert simply can’t be trusted. They do not coincide with the number of men who use finasteride and the real world percentage that receive side effects. (Id say the number is closer to 30-40% of men who use the drug experience the side effects)

    -Pp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    I get A LOT of emails, and each case is different, but I can tell you for sure that finasteride is major contributor of the above mentioned side effects. Sometimes the patient doesn’t even know it. They say “My body appearance has gotten very flabby and I’m carrying more fat around the chest area in the past 6 months”… and I ask “have you recently started finasteride?” Well, guess what…

    Those numbers from the package insert simply can’t be trusted. They do not coincide with the number of men who use finasteride and the real world percentage that receive side effects. (Id say the number is closer to 30-40% of men who use the drug experience the side effects)

    -Pp
    both of you guys have points that I agree, I use fina from 3 years, in the beginning I really felt a libido drop but nowadays I got no problems at all, in the soft muscle point I didn't feel that effect, by the contrary , test is more anabolic than dht in muscle tissue and when you use fina (1mg) your test levels rise +/-15%, of course estrogen will raise also but if the levels are kept in the normal range (my case) problems will not occur
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xodus View Post
    Welcome to the darkside...
    I know right. Who ever knew i'd once be dancing with Darth Vader.
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    Propecia is an FDA approved drug. I used to work for a medical research firm, that conducted clinical trials for potential FDA approved medications. Let me tell you, if those stats are being allowed to be published with the medication, they are legit!! There are soooooooooo many rules, regulations, checks and balances in place to make sure that the numbers aren't being skewed!!!

    C_
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    Quote Originally Posted by callaway View Post
    Propecia is an FDA approved drug. I used to work for a medical research firm, that conducted clinical trials for potential FDA approved medications. Let me tell you, if those stats are being allowed to be published with the medication, they are legit!! There are soooooooooo many rules, regulations, checks and balances in place to make sure that the numbers aren't being skewed!!!

    C_
    Did your research firm participate in the approval of COX-2 inhibitors that led to tens of thousands of deaths?

    Thats not personal, but I hope you know where I’m going here…

    The studies done for the FDA approved drugs are funded by the big pharm companies trying to get them to market. There is a huge conflict of interest here, especially when big members of the FDA hold large majority’s of the stocks in these pharm companies. It’s the powerful members at the top of the ladder than have the power and are responsible for the misconduct here… not the ground level employees.

    -Pp

    Modern medicines sleight of hand from Bill Sardi's Knowledge of Health
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    callaway PP

    ...Hi Toco-8. Nice to meet you. Lets be friends.
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    Haha, I don't think that the intention of this thread was to debate the legitimacy of the FDA. I stated my opinion, and I stand by it. However, I will charge people not to believe everything they read on the internet.

    Moving on...

    C_
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    heres from there site, only 279 people for there percentages soo......


    A 5-year clinical study demonstrated the effectiveness of PROPECIA.

    9 of 10 men who took PROPECIA had visible results—either regrowth of hair (48% [134 of 279]) or no further hair loss (42% [117 of 279])—vs 25% [4 of 16] who took a placebo (sugar pill), according to an assessment of photographs by an independent panel of dermatologists.
    2 of 3 men who took PROPECIA regrew hair, as measured by hair count. All of the men in the study who were not taking PROPECIA lost hair.
    A majority of men who took PROPECIA were rated as improved by doctors—77% (210 of 271) vs 15% (2 of 13) of men who took a placebo.
    A majority of men who took PROPECIA reported that their bald spot got smaller, their hair loss slowed down, and the appearance of their hair improved.
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    Reps To My Man Niko
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