delayed gyno problem

[southernxgun]

Hey long time reader, first time poster. So, here's the deal..

I ran a 4 week cycle of p-plex and used dermacrine sustain for my pct. I didn't have any signs of gyno until after I quit the dermacrine and it really flared up. A few months ago I ran epi to get rid of it and it worked until I started pct, I used dermacrine again along with pct support...and the gyno came back, about two weeks into post cycle. So, I ran novadex xt for a month with no help and I am currently running tbomb II. The first week of the tbomb the gyno reduced but now in week 3 it's starting to flare back up. A friend of mine recommened running a test e cycle to get rid of it, but it seems to me like that would make it worse. I have done a lot of searching, but I couldn't find anything on running test for gyno problems. So, with that being said, would that be a good route to go? If not, what would be the best way to go about getting rid of the gyno and it not returning? Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Australian made]

Using a SERM in PCT would be good for a start with possibly tapering down an AI after your standard PCT has finished to try and keep gyno at bay. Formestane would be good but its not easy to find anymore.

Get some p5p or possibly cabergolin if its prolactin gyno.....

 

[RenegadeRows]

It seems everytime you run an AI the gyno comes back when you stop.

Therefor it leads me to believe you SHOULD HAVE RUN A SERM your first time around.

Get Nolvadex and dose 25-30mg per day until it starts to go away, then taper down.

A SERM is the only option that comes to mind other than a doctor visit. Clearly the steroids (Epi) and AI's are not working.

 

[neoborn]

Most Importantly!

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/66113-no-excuses-no.html

SERM + P.C.T Guide

Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:

Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.

1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc

Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm

Alternative Torm Dosing:
Week1: Days 1-3: 120mg Torm, Days 4-7: 90 mg Torm
Week2: 60mg Torm
Week3: 60mg Torm
Week4: 30mg Torm

You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board.


Example Nolva Dosing:
Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
Wk2: 20mg everyday
Wk3: 10mg everyday
Wk4: 10mg everyday

I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe.

3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - Good reviews or I have used: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

NON-Rx SERM + P.C.T Guide

1. Non Rx SERM - Post Cycle Support(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended)

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.

3. AI - Formestane(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - Good reviews or have used the following: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.

With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.

Things To Note

1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!

2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT

3. Gynomastia - >>>Read This!<<< and >>>This!<<<

4. Real Gynomastia Before & After's:


5. Love your Liver!

 

[The_Reverend]

I second the notion of using p-5-p to combat the possibility of high prolactin levels. It might be wise to run it alongside some Nolva for a two pronged approach.

 

[mattikus]

You need to punch your friend that told you to do a test E cycle to get rid of gyno.

Check out Neo's post, it's all in there.

 

[southernxgun]

haha! I'll be sure to knock the sh!t outta him. Yes, I know I should have used a serm, I was just a bit worried about ordering it online. Also, I read a lot about people using dermacrine as the cornerstone of they're pct and it working out great. Seeing as how epistane got rid of the gyno the last time around, what do you guys think about running epi one more time along with 10mg of nolva on cycle and then the proper dosage in pct? Worth a shot or waste of time?

 

[Australian made]

Worth a shot, but i wouldnt be relying on epi to get rid of your gyno though.

 

[RenegadeRows]

Worth a shot, but i wouldnt be relying on epi to get rid of your gyno though.

Agreed. It's reduced it for me but its always come back a little bit. If you decide to go that route, i'd run low dose 20mg. Anything higher your risking making it worse IMO.

 

[southernxgun]

Epi was the only thing of the 3 that I've tried that really made it almost unoticeable. Im hoping I caught it early enough to where I can still get rid of it. So, hopefully the epi will work again at reducing it and running the nolva along with it will keep it from coming back. Again, thanks so much for your help guys!

Say:
epi- 20mg wk 1-4
nolva- 10mg wk 1-4
nolva- 40,40,20,10 starting in wk 4
plus all the usual support supps.

Maybe 6-bromo or another AI after the nolva is finished up?
Sound like a good plan?

 

[ezza]

You need to punch your friend that told you to do a test E cycle to get rid of gyno.

im glad someone said it!

 

[neoborn]

Maybe after this cycle a nice slow Nolva taper and move into an AI?

 

[Australian made]

Epi was the only thing of the 3 that I've tried that really made it almost unoticeable. Im hoping I caught it early enough to where I can still get rid of it. So, hopefully the epi will work again at reducing it and running the nolva along with it will keep it from coming back. Again, thanks so much for your help guys!

Say:
epi- 20mg wk 1-4
nolva- 10mg wk 1-4
nolva- 40,40,20,10 starting in wk 4
plus all the usual support supps.

Maybe 6-bromo or another AI after the nolva is finished up?
Sound like a good plan?

Looks the goods. One thing is if your running the nolva at 10mg all cycle im not sure if you'l really need to start pct at 40mg either. I guess you can wait and see what the 4 weeks of epi and nolva will do first but you may be able to lower the doses. Nolva is liver toxic after all.

 

[southernxgun]

True. I will be running liver longer through the entire thing though. I may just run the epi alone and start the nolva if the epi doesn't have the effect it did the last time around. So, one last thing, should I start the AI after the nolva is done and just taper off or should I run it with the nolva and ramp up as I taper off the nolva?

 

[friction515]

Do they get the toxicity information from people who are running nolva for cancer? If that is the case cancer treatments run much higher than the 40/20mg ranges of dosages that are most commonly discussed on the boards.

It would still be hepatoxic to some degree however dosage can matter. I'm not saying it always does but it can in some cases ie; tylenol. So possibly this liver toxic thing is something that might not be as great of a concern as some think.

 

[The_Reverend]

True. I will be running liver longer through the entire thing though. I may just run the epi alone and start the nolva if the epi doesn't have the effect it did the last time around. So, one last thing, should I start the AI after the nolva is done and just taper off or should I run it with the nolva and ramp up as I taper off the nolva?

Run the AI after the Nolva.

 

[southernxgun]

Alright. Just waiting on my nolva to come and I'll be ready to go. Thanks guys!

 

[lennoxchi]

I second the notion of using p-5-p to combat the possibility of high prolactin levels. It might be wise to run it alongside some Nolva for a two pronged approach.

how can you tell which compounds raise prolactin levels, or are considered "prolactin based" steroids?

 

[IRON4LIFE]

get on some letro....its fairly expensive buts its your best bet for reversing your gyno

 

[The_Reverend]

how can you tell which compounds raise prolactin levels, or are considered "prolactin based" steroids?

There are ways to find out, but I don't know how.