Gear Layout

[TheeBC]

Well, I think i've done a good amount of research on AAS....(I almost said I've done my research, but more can always be done)I mean, Im looking at...


Week 1 Front load 1,000mg TEST E
Weeks 2-12 @ 500mg
Weeks 13-14 250mg TEST E
weeks 1-12 HCG 250iu x2 ew
Kick Start week 1-4
Bookend week 14-17 Epistane 20/30/40/40mg & Furazadrol @ 200/200/200/250mg
Week 1-17 Aromasin 10mg ED or 12.5mg EOD, help?
Around day 120-124 Test Enth should be at subnormal levels(mid week 17)
week 1-21 Vitamin C 3,000mg ED for cortisol control, 500mg 4 meals, pre/post WO


PCT
Aromasin 20mg ED
Liquid Nolva 40/40/20/20
Diesel Test Hardcore + Hyperdrol 2
CEE/AEE


Should I continue use of HCG through the oral weeks(up to week 15)? or just stop where I have it for injections(week 12?)?

Diet 6 meals, with possibly 6 snacks as well.
1.5-2 gallons of water. usually 3/4 gallon consumed during WO
360g+ Protein = 1450 calories
700g+ Carbohydrates = 2800 calories
100g Fats = 900 calories
Rougly 5k Total Calories.


Anything else missing?
AND of course the supporting supps.

 

[nosnmiveins]

first cycle?

 

[TheeBC]

yeap.

 

[nosnmiveins]

looks like uve done ur research, but u have way too much going on.

stick with 500mg/week test-e for 12 weeks, aromasin eod, and nolva as pct

 

[Xodus]

Check your email.

 

[TheeBC]

kickstarts are still a GO.

My training right now is awesome, im getting into the best state of health of my life for this cycle. I want no complications.

Aromasins @ 65% for estro. I was reading about aromasin with Nolva instead of just nolva, or nolva with adex/letro. adex/letro would be Overkill @ 95% and aromasin looks a lot better and I think better for prevention.

 

[z06]

looks like uve done ur research, but u have way too much going on.

stick with 500mg/week test-e for 12 weeks, aromasin eod, and nolva as pct

good advice right here :thumbsup:

 

[pistonpump]

your PCT is too much, having hyperdrol and aromasin, too much estrogen suppression.

what is your jumpstart gonna b?

 

[king1033]

looks like uve done ur research, but u have way too much going on.

stick with 500mg/week test-e for 12 weeks, aromasin eod, and nolva as pct

good advice

 

[TheeBC]

---Revised---

Weeks 1-12 @ 500mg TEST E
Kick Start week 1-4 Epistane 20/30/40/40mg
Weeks 13-14 500mg TEST E
weeks 1-14 HCG 250iu x2 ew(last shot 750iu)
Bookend week 14-17 Epistane 20/30/40/40mg & Furazadrol @ 200/200/200/250mg
Week 1-17 Aromasin 10mg EOD

Should I taper test?


PCT
Aromasin Tabs 5mg EOD 2 weeks
Nolva Tabs 40/40/20/20
Diesel Test Hardcore
MRI CEE/AEE

Any ideas on CLEN during PCT?
I was thinking it'll help spare some muscle and probably keep me a little more active.

I feel the aromasin is just a little but more precaution but also COULD be suppressive.

The idea of this cycle is to stay lean since I am busting my ass trying to get there now. Maybe a diet adjustment?

 

[pistonpump]

that looks better. Im going to run clen in my PCT hopefully it will help with energy and its anticatabolic properties will work out.

 

[z06]

that looks better. Im going to run clen in my PCT hopefully it will help with energy and its anticatabolic properties will work out.

I'm not saying don't do it, but from my personal experience I wouldn't run the clen during PCT. I tried it once in the past and wound up losing more gains then usual. However I was on a pretty low cal diet for 2 weeks which was an awful decision. I just feel PCT should be a transitional period where you need to really focus on your diet and training to keep as much as possible. If you do go with clen just don't drop your cals too much .

 

[pistonpump]

I'm not saying don't do it, but from my personal experience I wouldn't run the clen during PCT. I tried it once in the past and wound up losing more gains then usual. However I was on a pretty low cal diet for 2 weeks which was an awful decision. I just feel PCT should be a transitional period where you need to really focus on your diet and training to keep as much as possible. If you do go with clen just don't drop your cals too much .

what if i up the cals?

 

[z06]

what if i up the cals?

that would be the smartest decision because I made a hugeee mistake of dropping cals. Will NEVER do that again lol.

 

[MentalTwitch]

That cycle is dumb.
1. Youre going to get big and then lose it, i dont care, yoiu will, youre not pro and dont live the lifestyle to run enough gear long enought to keep it.

2. PH at the end...why? Its only going to stress the liver and suppress you more when you wanna be getting ready to bounce back.

3. You make that cycle or copy paste it? 1,000mg test a week is alot.

4 You were asking about Clen awhile ago, then Clen and another stim a few days ago...why the change? And dont use those on cycle.

I say start simple and build steadily so your body doesnt take a quick hit, you keep your gains, and so you know what is working.



EDIT: Did you ever just try the dietyou posted? It will help that if youre looking for mass to do a natty bulk pre-cycle for a bit. So you know you can eats the cals. Thats alot of carbs, on bulk i barley hit that many.

 

[z06]

4 You were asking about Clen awhile ago, then Clen and another stim a few days ago...why the change? And dont use those on cycle.

I say start simple and build steadily so your body doesnt take a quick hit, you keep your gains, and so you know what is working.

my man speaks the truth! as i said I personally would never make the mistake of running clen again over PCT. I save all that stuff for a month or two post-pct.

 

[MentalTwitch]

If you do go with clen just don't drop your cals too much .

agreed. Keep the protein up PP. Mabye back of the carbs some. That way youll stay lean but hold muscle.

 

[TheeBC]

well first things first. The other threads are for "NOW"/ This thread is for the future, MONTHS AWAY. FAR FAR AWAY.

---Revised---

Weeks 1-12 @ 500mg TEST E
Kick Start week 1-4 Epistane 20/30/40/40mg
weeks 1-14 HCG 250iu x2 ew(last shot 750iu)
Week 1-17 Aromasin Tabs 10mg EOD


PCT
Nolva Tabs 40/40/20/20
Diesel Test Hardcore
MRI CEE/AEE

I simply asked about things I have read on other cycles, all I need to hear is yeah, its bad, or yeah, its good, then your reason. Not questioning how stupid it is, im trying to figure it out, at least 4+ months in advanced. But I am taking your advice on the bookend, curious as to why? I thought it worked as a something to bring me down gently rather then just coming straight off?

Hope its look better as im taking your advice.
Jumpstart is okay though correct? I'll probably grow like a weed on this **** for a first time.

 

[nosnmiveins]

looks good :thumbsup:

 

[Xodus]

Bookends are typically to keep some anabolism going while the esters are clearing your system and hormonal levels are dropping. Nothing wrong with that.

well first things first. The other threads are for "NOW"/ This thread is for the future, MONTHS AWAY. FAR FAR AWAY.

---Revised---

Weeks 1-12 @ 500mg TEST E
Kick Start week 1-4 Epistane 20/30/40/40mg
weeks 1-14 HCG 250iu x2 ew(last shot 750iu)
Week 1-17 Aromasin Tabs 10mg EOD


PCT
Nolva Tabs 40/40/20/20
Diesel Test Hardcore
MRI CEE/AEE

I simply asked about things I have read on other cycles, all I need to hear is yeah, its bad, or yeah, its good, then your reason. Not questioning how stupid it is, im trying to figure it out, at least 4+ months in advanced. But I am taking your advice on the bookend, curious as to why? I thought it worked as a something to bring me down gently rather then just coming straight off?

Hope its look better as im taking your advice.
Jumpstart is okay though correct? I'll probably grow like a weed on this **** for a first time.

 

[MentalTwitch]

is Epi a worthy compound for a kickstart?
Dbol is the most common and yea, an aromatose inhib. will keep the bloat down.

 

[Xodus]

is Epi a worthy compound for a kickstart?
Dbol is the most common and yea, an aromatose inhib. will keep the bloat down.

some respond well to it, I do not. I would prefer prop, dbol or even p-plex but it will help minimize estrogen related sides.

 

[TheeBC]

I was considering dbol for sometime, just don't want to deal with getting very bloated. I knew AI helped with it, ive been playing on the fence. Now reconsidering my body will be going insane with extreme changes probably some water would be nice. I've always liked P-plex. Did well for me, except when I caught the flu.(bad times). P-plex for its cost and ive always been a great responder. Saw IRONMAN last night. midnight showing, pretty sick. 2 hour movie.

 

[nosnmiveins]

some respond well to it, I do not. I would prefer prop, dbol or even p-plex but it will help minimize estrogen related sides.

my first cycle is gonna be prop and dbol :twisted:

 

[TheeBC]

So, been a while since i've ran pp. I have some of AX's original. I 'll need a few more pills to help complete it. i'll go see whose got pp.

 

[Xodus]

check out ozarka's log. he used prop though, not cyp or enanthate. he used epi as his AI and it seemed to work quite nicely while also adding to his gains. i agree with keeping things simple. i too am popping my pin cherry in the next few months or so. 500mg cidoteston(human grade test-e) for 12 weeks. with 25mg dbol for the first 6 weeks as a kickstart. adex at .25mg every other day will be used to keep estro in check. obviously i'll increase it to everyday if it is needed, but i should be fine with every other day dosing. no hcg for me though. also, i MAY use some bulk m1,4add instead of the dbol, but i'm not sure yet. depends on the $$. i have some math to do, lol. thoughts? suggestions? thanks!

I started my last cycle with M1,4AD and had to drop it within a week. It made me absolutely nauseous and destroyed my appetite.

I still have it, capped at 800mg which could be run for 10 weeks @ 1.6g/day.

 

[Xodus]

800mg!?? damn bro, the "sweet spot" for most people is 90-120mg or so from what i've read! you sure you're not thinking of bold?? i had omega labs m1,4add and it was 40mg per cap. i believe all other m1,4add products were around the same 35mg or so per cap. 800mg is just rediculous.

Sorry, not M1,4AD just bulk 1,4AD.

 

[Xodus]

ok, lol. that makes sense then. although, many people have said bold INCREASES their appetite like crazy, hmmm. just goes to how how different bodies react to different things. yea i'll go with the actual dbol for my cycle and probably get some bulk m1,4add for a fun time later down the road so, do you see anything wrong with my cycle or have any recommendations?? thanks in advance.

I was also on 600mg EQ /week and that definitely increased my appetite. Just something about that stuff did not agree with my gut.

 

[TheeBC]

Im not worried about it. there is plenty to go around.

 

[pistonpump]

check out ozarka's log. he used prop though, not cyp or enanthate. he used epi as his AI and it seemed to work quite nicely while also adding to his gains. i agree with keeping things simple. i too am popping my pin cherry in the next few months or so. 500mg cidoteston(human grade test-e) for 12 weeks. with 25mg dbol for the first 6 weeks as a kickstart. adex at .25mg every other day will be used to keep estro in check. obviously i'll increase it to everyday if it is needed, but i should be fine with every other day dosing. no hcg for me though. also, i MAY use some bulk m1,4add instead of the dbol, but i'm not sure yet. depends on the $$. i have some math to do, lol. thoughts? suggestions? thanks!

stay with the dbol. m14add is a dbol precursor but other suggest it has actives in on itself before conversion and considering you take 120mg and maybe more of it i think it will be more stressing than dbol would. Dbol is perfect for people that arent prone to gyno and estrogenic sides.

 

[n8te]

better get it now, before it's banned! june 24th bro.

at the risk of sounding like an idiot how did you find out what is going to be banned? is there a list of some sort?

 

[TheeBC]

is bold good sh!t, never really researched? pplex though <3 it

 

[nosnmiveins]

is bold good sh!t, never really researched? pplex though <3 it

way underdosed and needs to be run 8-12 weeks

 

[n8te]

way underdosed and needs to be run 8-12 weeks

Yea its really underdosed but I've had friends take it they had mild gains and pretty good appetite increases.

 

[TheeBC]

Was this what we were agreeing with a good idea on the cycle? Dbol seems good, but I'll use the PP as a cheap kickstarter because of my $$$ limitation. Or should I spend the extra 50 and go with dbol. 30mg ed for 4 weeks

---Revised---

Weeks 1-12 @ 500mg TEST E
Kick Start week 1-4 Phera-Plex 30/45/45/45mg
weeks 1-14 HCG 250iu x2 ew(last shot 750iu)
Week 1-17 Liquid Aromasin 10mg EOD


PCT
Liquid Nolva 40/40/20/20
Diesel Test Hardcore
MRI CEE/AEE

 

[nosnmiveins]

looks solid bro, give it hell! i think pplex would be a good "dbol" alternative and a cheap one at that

 

[TheeBC]

Thanks nosnmiveins, I guess dbol starts working in 2 days or so. "You can feel it" PP has always been around 10-14 days for me. Doesn't mean sh!t cant be brewing inside!

Bassgod, Im hoping someone else comments on this clomid routine you've suggested, just curious on the thought of it.

yeah, my GF will thank the HCG herself.

 

[MentalTwitch]

PPlex possible more known for estrogenic sides than Dbol.

Arimidex 25mg a day is fine. Some dont start it until mid cycle i dont think.

Proviron while on 50mg a day is a good idea too, google it.

HCG- Why is this so popular? This is a simple cycle that a simple PCT will recovery you fine, especially on arim AND Proviron.

I Think you should drop the PPlex idea. Increae in acne, estrogen sides, bloat. Test, acne, estrogen sides, bloat. See my point.
Do the Epi if anythign casue im guessin you want to keep it lean throughout.

Goodluck, and make sure you keep getting opinions and researching.

And like i said before, try 1-2 things at first.
Whats your stats too i was wondering? Where are you trying to get too?

 

[TheeBC]

My HCG is weeks 1-12 250iu x2 ew(last shot 750iu)

Does my HCG according to swales protocol seem correct?

Nolva interacts with adex and clomid in a way where it limits their purpose I thought? or am I thinking letro?

 

[TheeBC]

Basically, Im looking to bring my legs up to speed with my upper torso, then add to my upper body. looking @ 210 10% or lower BF. I was very sick last year while on a PH cycle. Lost 18lbs. Its been terrible. Diets on cue, and im testing myself on being strict to which ever plan I set. I want to make sure, I am 100% committed without interruptions. My life is very saturated with bullshit.

You mean .25mg?

Proviron, haven't looked a ton into it. I will

 

[pistonpump]

PPlex possible more known for estrogenic sides than Dbol. what are you talking about? thats weird conclusion as dbol gains are made from aromatizing estrogen while pplex cannot aromatize...Bloat on dbol is a given, pplex some dont bloat at all.

Arimidex 25mg a day is fine. Some dont start it until mid cycle i dont think. you mean .25mg or do you mean aromasin?

Proviron while on 50mg a day is a good idea too, google it. it can be expensive but good for any cycle if you can afford it.

HCG- Why is this so popular? This is a simple cycle that a simple PCT will recovery you fine, especially on arim AND Proviron. what does proviron and arim have anything to do with recovery?

I Think you should drop the PPlex idea. Increae in acne, estrogen sides, bloat. Test, acne, estrogen sides, bloat. See my point.
Do the Epi if anythign casue im guessin you want to keep it lean throughout. depends on goals but you can always lean out later in the cycle or after the cycle.
Goodluck, and make sure you keep getting opinions and researching.

And like i said before, try 1-2 things at first.
Whats your stats too i was wondering? Where are you trying to get too?

have you ran an injectable cycle yet?

 

[TheeBC]

nope. ph's only. its a whole new ballpark for me.

 

[pistonpump]

nope. ph's only. its a whole new ballpark for me.

i was talking to the other guy.....:afro:

 

[LilPsychotic]

well first things first. The other threads are for "NOW"/ This thread is for the future, MONTHS AWAY. FAR FAR AWAY.

---Revised---

Weeks 1-12 @ 500mg TEST E
Kick Start week 1-4 Epistane 20/30/40/40mg
weeks 1-14 HCG 250iu x2 ew(last shot 750iu)
Week 1-17 Aromasin Tabs 10mg EOD


PCT
Nolva Tabs 40/40/20/20
Diesel Test Hardcore
MRI CEE/AEE

I simply asked about things I have read on other cycles, all I need to hear is yeah, its bad, or yeah, its good, then your reason. Not questioning how stupid it is, im trying to figure it out, at least 4+ months in advanced. But I am taking your advice on the bookend, curious as to why? I thought it worked as a something to bring me down gently rather then just coming straight off?

Hope its look better as im taking your advice.
Jumpstart is okay though correct? I'll probably grow like a weed on this **** for a first time.

Looks good, you may want to keep the aromasin on standby during your jumpstart weeks, you may not need it w/ epistane. Just a thought.

 

[MentalTwitch]

have you ran an injectable cycle yet?

I dint mean that pplex was on the same level as dbol, but that the sides seem to mimic eachother, thats all.
i did mean .25mg
the PCT line got confused and miss placed, i know the 2 have nothing to do with it. Except proviron should, correct?

And no, no i havenot run an injectable cycle yet. So i guess i shouldnt be giving info here.................
but i am soon enough so oh well.

goodluck.

 

[ralph4u2c]

continue your research your off to a good start but ill help a bit more:

*first, no need to frontload if your running an oral. typically frontloading helps to "overload" your receptors/plasma levels and help test kick in faster. most people tend to notice that when they frontload, gains stop around 8-10 weeks as well. since you are running a longer ester, most users like to kickstart with an oral and have the benefits of the longer ester test continuing to work towards the end of the cycle.

*would bump the armidex to .2mg EOD in to help with water retention, specially if using an oral.

*good with test dosage. just read up on how/where to pin and get a good source for your test. also read up on how to spot fakes and different tests you can do to spot a fake.

*HCG should be ran for 2-3 weeks (no longer than 4) as a kickstart to your PCT, not 17 weeks. 750iu is not needed, more is not better in this case. i would recommend 500iu ED beginning the last 2-3 weeks of your test cycle and tamper down on the dosage towards the end to 250iu ED. typically, HCG it not needed unless you run heavy cycles or cycles longer than 12 weeks (common myth) so you are good to use HCG. HCG can also be mildly suppressive on LH, this is why it is taken towards the end of the cycle. it is always good to begin your PCT immediately following HCG, specially something like nolva to help start producing LH again. if you are doing 12 or less weeks of test i wouldnt even waste my money on HCG.

good luck.

 

[pistonpump]

I dint mean that pplex was on the same level as dbol, but that the sides seem to mimic eachother, thats all.
i did mean .25mg
the PCT line got confused and miss placed, i know the 2 have nothing to do with it. Except proviron should, correct?

And no, no i havenot run an injectable cycle yet. So i guess i shouldnt be giving info here.................
but i am soon enough so oh well.

goodluck.

i dont see proviron having any effect on recovery either.

 

[TheeBC]

AHHHH CONFLICTING OPINIONS!!! :frustrate

 

[MentalTwitch]

no they are prolly right. I understand very little on proviron. It seems to keep you "active" and minimize shutdown if im correct? Unless im thinking of the wrong compound. I know most use it at 25mg-50mg during cycles.
I have more research to do as well but mine is going to be simple anyhow...Test E/C 500-600mg week. Proviron 25mgs/day, an inhibitor.
then ill have a cut cycle after that going into a show.

 

[MentalTwitch]

http://www.steroid.com/Proviron.php

yea i read it there. I just re-read it. I think i am thinking of somethign else i dont know. There were a few long nights of research in there so, ill have to straighten it out. Also, i just saw that it was rec. to be run by someone 25mg for the first 4 weeks.....