Havoc... how many weeks of pre loading on CS

[rocky025]

Should i do 10days of pre-loading on cycle support or should i cut it quick and just do 7 days? also you think i should take my liver care product in pre-loading to get my liver prepared for the steroid?



:djparty:

 

[zbtboy]

Cycle Support should be preloaded 10-14 days so I would stick to the 10 day plan. Also, what is this other liver care product and whats in it?...check it against Cycle Support to make sure your not doubling up on stuff.

 

[rocky025]

Liv.52 is the product.

so should i preload that too or save it?

 

[stxnas]

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/himalaya/liv-52-liver-care-90-tabs.html
^^^Is this the same stuff? It doesn't appear to be redundant.

You could save it, pre-load it, or start it during cycle and run it through pct...it's really your call. We've seen great feedback from guys using only Cycle Support for their methylated cycles.

 

[Craigmatthew]

I pre loaded the the LIV52 for a few days before my Epi cycle, it doesn't contain anything that CS has in it as far as I know. I'm using both products during and Post cycle. Look like two great formulas as far as doing all you can to prevent or limit damage.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

I pre-loaded it for 14 days before my recent H-drol cycle and It went very well good luck bro let us know if we can help:cheers:

 

[zbtboy]

Liv.52 is the product.

so should i preload that too or save it?

i say pre-load with the Cycle Support and add the Liv 52 during cycle for added protection. Of course, if money isnt the issue, preload them both.

 

[B5150]

Could any of you guys provide some reference or evidence that any of these need to be pre loaded.

Point being; some steroids will without a doubt mess up your lipids regardless of what you use. You can only hope to restore it afterwards.

Some steroids will elevate your ALT/AST drastically and some not so much and I believe that these values will be elevated until the toxic chemical (steroid) is no longer used. You can only hope that they restore afterwards.

When I say hope I am not saying that CS will not do what it claims. It does and will and i have seen the results posted.

But at a 14 day pre load you have used up half of the bottle (and that is in powder form) before you even start your cycle. That leaves you with 14 days worth for on cycle.

Now I need another bottle to last me 14 days more (of a 4 week cycle) and 14 days more for PCT.

That equates to $90 (with shipping) for two bottles of CS for a $45 (with shipping) bottle of Havoc.

I am not by any means suggesting or insinuating anything regarding the efficacy of CS. This issue I want to bring attention to is this "pre-load" method. What and where is the evidence that this is needed or even proportionately more effective than not pre loading but rather just use it on cycle and/or during post cycle.

I have some, will use it, so I assure you it is not an issue with efficacy to do what it claims that I posse the question.

 

[Prometherion]

Could any of you guys provide some reference or evidence that any of these need to be pre loaded.

Point being; some steroids will without a doubt mess up your lipids regardless of what you use. You can only hope to restore it afterwards.

Some steroids will elevate your ALT/AST drastically and some not so much and I believe that these values will be elevated until the toxic chemical (steroid) is no longer used. You can only hope that they restore afterwards.

When I say hope I am not saying that CS will not do what it claims. It does and will and i have seen the results posted.

But at a 14 day pre load you have used up half of the bottle (and that is in powder form) before you even start your cycle. That leaves you with 14 days worth for on cycle.

Now I need another bottle to last me 14 days more (of a 4 week cycle) and 14 days more for PCT.

That equates to $90 (with shipping) for two bottles of CS for a $45 (with shipping) bottle of Havoc.

I am not by any means suggesting or insinuating anything regarding the efficacy of CS. This issue I want to bring attention to is this "pre-load" method. What and where is the evidence that this is needed or even proportionately more effective than not pre loading but rather just use it on cycle and/or during post cycle.

I have some, will use it, so I assure you it is not an issue with efficacy to do what it claims that I posse the question.

Thanks for that post. I've wondered this myself. While the idea seems logical to pre-load, I've never seen any definitive proof that it is needed or beneficial.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Could any of you guys provide some reference or evidence that any of these need to be pre loaded.

Point being; some steroids will without a doubt mess up your lipids regardless of what you use. You can only hope to restore it afterwards.

Some steroids will elevate your ALT/AST drastically and some not so much and I believe that these values will be elevated until the toxic chemical (steroid) is no longer used. You can only hope that they restore afterwards.

When I say hope I am not saying that CS will not do what it claims. It does and will and i have seen the results posted.

But at a 14 day pre load you have used up half of the bottle (and that is in powder form) before you even start your cycle. That leaves you with 14 days worth for on cycle.

Now I need another bottle to last me 14 days more (of a 4 week cycle) and 14 days more for PCT.

That equates to $90 (with shipping) for two bottles of CS for a $45 (with shipping) bottle of Havoc.

I am not by any means suggesting or insinuating anything regarding the efficacy of CS. This issue I want to bring attention to is this "pre-load" method. What and where is the evidence that this is needed or even proportionately more effective than not pre loading but rather just use it on cycle and/or during post cycle.

I have some, will use it, so I assure you it is not an issue with efficacy to do what it claims that I posse the question.

I do not have that evidence but will see what I can do the info that I have understood most is that hawthorne berry needs to be built up in the system before it will help with blood pressure control let me see what I can dig up:cheers:

 

[B5150]

I do not have that evidence but will see what I can do the info that I have understood most is that hawthorne berry needs to be built up in the system before it will help with blood pressure control let me see what I can dig up:cheers:

I would absolutely agree that 'symptomatic' issues like BP may benefit from a pre load protocol. Yet I have also seen personally that Celery Seed Extract can have a positive impact immediately. Keep us posted

 

[stxnas]

From what I have gathered on the boards over the years is that hawthorne needs to be pre-loaded. I've shot a few guys PMs and I've been searching for some info that is more than brotelligence.

I'm in the midst of packing up my belongings, but I'll check back later today with any new info that I have.

 

[CROWLER]

For me I take Life Support every day so I am sure I am covered.

The items are extract so a 7 - 10 day preloading may or may not be neccessary, without a double blind test I would say near impossible to tell.

Personally I would rather be safe than sorry so I would preload.


CROWLER

 

[B5150]

CS ingredient profile is an overall excellent 'staple' health product...without question.

Unfortunately I use(d) many of the ingredients individually...but no more

 

[stxnas]

I can't find any studies per se, but anecdotally it appears that hawthorne berry takes some time to start causing any noticeable effects.

If money is an issue you could always pre-load a five dollar bottle of hawthorne before cycle. There could also be some preemptive benefits to pre-loading Cycle Support as well. I look at it kind of like changing your oil before taking a road trip.

I hope this helps some.

 

[maynehood171]

Thanks for that.

I did the whole pre load scheme but I realized quickly that it got REALLY expensive so had to buy the products individually and just do it that way...

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

I found some info on hawthorne berry some studies have been done I will post the link for those who want to read the whole thing and I will add a some bit of it here

http://ezinearticles.com/?Hawthorne-Berries-Extract-And-Heart-Health&id=503578


The most recent studies of the medicinal value of hawthorn berries extract are related to its affect on the liver, the digestive system, the cardiovascular system and as an anti-inflammatory. Numerous studies have been completed. These studies do not use hawthorne berry tea, but a concentrated extract.

The hawthorne berries extract used by scientists has natural anti-inflammatory action. Chronic inflammation has been associated with numerous life threatening conditions including cancer and heart disease, but use of the known anti-inflammatory drugs does not reduce the risk of developing these conditions. In fact, NSAIDs increase blood pressure, which in turn increases the risk of heart disease and can be damaging to other organs of the body, as well.

On the other hand, it is believed that natural anti-inflammatories, such as those found in hawthorne berry tea, but also present in other fruits and vegetables can reduce cancer risks and the risk of heart disease. These natural compounds can also lower blood pressure and reduce blood cholesterol levels, two major risk factors for heart disease

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Here is some more I found

Hawthorn

If you read the very end of the it you will find this


Don’t expect instant results, however. The therapeutic effects take time to develop, usually a period of weeks or months. If you think you might have a heart or blood pressure problem, first get an accurate diagnosis, says Dr. Ben-Arye. After you know what the problem is, you can make your choices about medications and supplements.

 

[rocky025]

with the preloding of CS you think i can just do 1 scoop insted of 2 then when on cycle do 2 scoops.

i have 2 bottles of CS and i want to make sure i have enough for PCT as well.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

with the preloding of CS you think i can just do 1 scoop insted of 2 then when on cycle do 2 scoops.

i have 2 bottles of CS and i want to make sure i have enough for PCT as well.

Yes I do not see that as a problem it would make it more cost effective and you would still be getting some of the ingredents each day. Good luck bro let me know if I can be of help:cheers:

 

[stxnas]

I agree. I often suggest that to guys who are using some of the more mild supps. Something like superdrol or Max LMG would probably benefit more from two scoops.

If money is tight you could even pick up a bottle of hawthorne and preload with that and then start the CS ON cycle and run it until it's out.

 

[B5150]

I agree. I often suggest that to guys who are using some of the more mild supps. Something like superdrol or Max LMG would probably benefit more from two scoops.

If money is tight you could even pick up a bottle of hawthorne and preload with that and then start the CS ON cycle and run it until it's out.

Seeing as how the issue with BP does seem to be cummulative over time depending upon the cycle you may not need to front load anything at all.

If someone is doing a 12-16 weeks injectable cycle I see no need to front load. But, as is the case, people are using very potent orals that could have immediate impact on BP and other vitals so it is not a bad idea to front load or do as you prescibed and find the Hawthorn elsewhere.

Some will and should run it all year round.

Cycle Support by the KILO please!

 

[stxnas]

Yeah, that's pretty much the point that I was alluding to when I mentioned CS and superdrol.

A kilo of Cycle Support would be nice