Red Yeast Rice toxic to liver?

[AlexParty]

I was reading some threads and they mention that the ingredient 'red yeast rice' is very toxic to the liver. Why would it be in cycle support? I bought 2 cycles supports with this in it and over looked the RYR free version. This blows.

 

[maynehood171]

I thought I read somewhere that it's actually fermented rice or something so I could see how it would be toxic

 

[Condition1]

Found this on About.com... If it causes Joint and muscle discomfort i'm sure people would have mentioned something about the product as it's been used as a support supplement before. This goes for liver damage as well. Regardless, i'd prefer the RYR free cycle support now.

"Red yeast rice is a nutritional supplement used to lower cholesterol.
The side effects and risks of red yeast rice are not fully understood. Red yeast rice side effects and risks may include:

* Headache
* Indigestion
* Bloating and gas
* Dizziness
* Heartburn
* Muscle pain
* Joint pain
* Liver inflammation
* Damage to peripheral nerves

Red yeast rice, like the statin drugs, can cause myopathy. Signs and symptoms include muscle pain, weakness, and elevated levels of creatine kinase.

Rhabdomyolysis, a breakdown of muscle tissue that can lead to kidney failure, is a serious side effect that can occur rarely. People who notice muscle pain, weakness, or tenderness while using red yeast rice should see a doctor immediately.

In studies, red yeast rice has been found to interfere with the body's ability to produce CoQ10, which is thought to be a side effect of statin drugs.

There is insufficient information about the long-term safety of red yeast rice."

Safety

Red yeast rice products have been found to contain citrinin, a toxic by-product of the fermentation process.

Pregnant or nursing women and children should not use red yeast rice.

People with liver disease or at risk for liver disease should not use red yeast rice, as red yeast rice may impair liver function.

People with acute infections, kidney disease, or who have had an organ transplant should not use red yeast rice.

"People taking red yeast rice who develop muscle pain or tenderness should discontinue the product immediately and check with their doctor."

 

[Condition1]

I was reading some threads and they mention that the ingredient 'red yeast rice' is very toxic to the liver. Why would it be in cycle support? I bought 2 cycles supports with this in it and over looked the RYR free version. This blows.

I'm in the same exact boat. I opened one out of curiosity, damn curiosity!

 

[maynehood171]

Nothing comes free in this world :aargh:

 

[nosnmiveins]

dangit i bought 2 also, but i believe that a rep explained it all in a thread a while back saying that theres not enough RYR in cycle support to actually be detrimental

 

[Condition1]

dangit i bought 2 also, but i believe that a rep explained it all in a thread a while back saying that theres not enough RYR in cycle support to actually be detrimental

Maybe i'm paranoid, but i'm more so worried about dry joints on a dry compound or stack. I mean, if RYR has a negative effect on joints and muscle....i'm freaking out man.... egh I just get that image of throwing my shoulder and losing my gains :frustrate

 

[fatsuperman]

The Big Pharma companies ordered all the effective ingredients out of red rice yeast supplements sold in the United States. Apparently big pharma is allowed to patent drugs that have been used for thousands of years in other cultures.

It is likely you red yeast extract contains no effective ingredients thanks to the big pharma companies

so don't fret it!

 

[AlexParty]

At least there's a free RYR version, I don't think using the ones I bought for a cycle will do any damage unless I continually run it for a long period say 3+ months...

I know there are benefits to RYR as I read the same Condition1 but again I don't like the toxicity to the liver since I am clearing taking cycle support to help my liver during cycle and lower blood pressure.

 

[SOLARUS]

dangit i bought 2 also, but i believe that a rep explained it all in a thread a while back saying that theres not enough RYR in cycle support to actually be detrimental

LOL, well then it must be true!

 

[AlexParty]

it would be nice to get a rep in here to make it a little more clear.

 

[zbtboy]

If you guys are that worried about it, feel free to email Crowler at [email protected] and see if you can work out some kind of exchange or something for the RYR Free version. Crowler is always more than willing to help out his customers.

There seems to be teo different camps: ones who like and support RYR and the other which doesnt; and both have science to back them up. So needless to say, I'm just as confused as everyone else.

 

[Ziquor]

RYR isn't bad for the liver - lovastatin is SLIGHTLY harsh on the kidneys & liver just like ANY medication. Whenever RYR is made via the went strain method of monascus purpureus it naturally contains lovastatin - a prescription cholesterol lowering drug (lipid). However the FDA created a ban on this method so RYR is illegal to make via the went strain method and it has been since 2001. So in theory no RYR supplements have contained lovastatin since 2001 unless they were made illegally. Funny thing is the impact of lovastatin on the liver is VERY minimal but seeing how the FDA was losing money since people were buying RYR instead of the FDA's own prescription drug lovastatin - they made RYR illegal to sell when it contains lovastatin. Mostly all meds and even herbals for that matter are processed through the liver and can put a slight strain on the liver but the liver regenerates and the impact it has won't even effect ones health. The FDA just had to demonize RYR w/ lovastatin to stop people from buying it.

 

[AlexParty]

RYR isn't bad for the liver - lovastatin is SLIGHTLY harsh on the kidneys & liver just like ANY medication. Whenever RYR is made via the went strain method of monascus purpureus it naturally contains lovastatin - a prescription cholesterol lowering drug (lipid). However the FDA created a ban on this method so RYR is illegal to make via the went strain method and it has been since 2001. So in theory no RYR supplements have contained lovastatin since 2001 unless they were made illegally. Funny thing is the impact of lovastatin on the liver is VERY minimal but seeing how the FDA was losing money since people were buying RYR instead of the FDA's own prescription drug lovastatin - they made RYR illegal to sell when it contains lovastatin. Mostly all meds and even herbals for that matter are processed through the liver and can put a slight strain on the liver but the liver regenerates and the impact it has won't even effect ones health. The FDA just had to demonize RYR w/ lovastatin to stop people from buying it.

Great to hear. So basically the RYR that cycle support has isn't as toxic to the liver as I thought? I was thinking of exchanging it for the RYR free version but it's so much of a hassle.

 

[maynehood171]

Why I'm not that worried and will continue using RYR in CS and herbal remedies

 

[Condition1]

If RYR indeed causes joint and muscles to weaken this would be counter productive.

I haven't run CS but I am a big fan of it and have 2 bottles for my next cycle. It's more of a paranoia thing with me I guess having injured my shoulder for a while and lost most gains as well as lots of strength. Not fun.

 

[AlexParty]

If RYR indeed causes joint and muscles to weaken this would be counter productive.

I haven't run CS but I am a big fan of it and have 2 bottles for my next cycle. It's more of a paranoia thing with me I guess having injured my shoulder for a while and lost most gains as well as lots of strength. Not fun.

Same situation. I've always used Perfect Cycle Liver Support by Anabolic Xtreme. Cycle support seems to be better so I bought that. If it was really a bid issue we would have heard more about it. It's just weird because CS is suppose to help with liver and blood pressure and here we learn it has an ingredient that is toxic to the liver.

 

[SOLARUS]

Mostly all meds and even herbals for that matter are processed through the liver and can put a slight strain on the liver but the liver regenerates and the impact it has won't even effect ones health. The FDA just had to demonize RYR w/ lovastatin to stop people from buying it.

well then it's pointless to take cycle support in the first place, isnt it? if the liver is regenerative why do we need to take measures to protect it?

it's like offering a toothpaste that happens to contain acid...then arguing that it doesnt matter because toothpaste is unnecessary as the brushing is what cleans the teeth. feel me?

 

[maynehood171]

well then it's pointless to take cycle support in the first place, isnt it? if the liver is regenerative why do we need to take measures to protect it?

it's like offering a toothpaste that happens to contain acid...then arguing that it doesnt matter because toothpaste is unnecessary as the brushing is what cleans the teeth. feel me?

I get what you are saying but aren't we just trying to relieve stress off the liver from our methyls and other everyday liver stressers we endure? IMO it's like taking Tylenol for a headache...isn't going to kill us to wing it with the pain but helps relieve the pain/(stress in this case of liver protectant) so we can function more efficiently...

 

[AlexParty]

I think I might email crowler and find out what can be done about this.

 

[Haltera]

if RYR does not contain lovastatin why use it???

 

[SOLARUS]

I get what you are saying but aren't we just trying to relieve stress off the liver from our methyls and other everyday liver stressers we endure? IMO it's like taking Tylenol for a headache...isn't going to kill us to wing it with the pain but helps relieve the pain/(stress in this case of liver protectant) so we can function more efficiently...

my point is that most people use CS because they are concerned about the detrimental effects of 17aa's on liver function (among other things)...when a rep says that a liver-damaging component of CS is no big deal because the liver is regenerative - it's pretty ridiculous.

 

[Ziquor]

my point is that most people use CS because they are concerned about the detrimental effects of 17aa's on liver function (among other things)...when a rep says that a liver-damaging component of CS is no big deal because the liver is regenerative - it's pretty ridiculous.

Thing is about CS it has numerous cycle benefits. Of course it has a few liver detoxing ingredients but it also has RYR, coQ10, hawthorn extracts, and other herbs too that help lower cholesterol, decrease blood pressure and support cardio health. RYR even without lovastatin can still have benefits on choleserol - just not as much. But even if CS was just a liver supp why not take it? Of course thousands of oral methyls have been ran since the 60's or longer and the only reported or documented cases of liver failure are ones where the liver was defective to begin with or was a result of abusing orals - however it's always better safe than sorry. The liver does regenerate but if one takes orals in abusive doses or tylenol at 10,000mg a day your liver won't recover from something like that. Not even with all the milk thistle in the world. But the cleaner the liver is to begin with the less chance it has of being permenently damaged so like I said - better safe than sorry.

 

[maynehood171]

my point is that most people use CS because they are concerned about the detrimental effects of 17aa's on liver function (among other things)...when a rep says that a liver-damaging component of CS is no big deal because the liver is regenerative - it's pretty ridiculous.

now that I think about it...isn't RYR for heart/cholesterol mostly and not particularly the liver?

 

[AlexParty]

Ok so I wrote Anabolic innovations, I wrote:

Hey there,

I created a thread over at Anabolicminds.com called 'Red Yeast Rice toxic to liver?'. I was told by zbtboy to contact you about this. I am concerned with the toxicity of the ingredient Red yeast rice. I bought cycle support without knowing that RYR was an issue. Maybe there is lack of information concerning it but I got cycle support to help with my liver, blood pressure and overall health while taking an oral cycle but if the ingredient RYR is toxic to the liver then cycle support is basically counter productive. I did notice, now, that there is a Free RYR version of cycle support. Is there any possible way to return my 2 bottles to exchange for the RYR free version? I opened one out of curiosity but it is untouched and can be weighed for legitimate purposes. There are several customers concerned with this issue in that thread so I don't know if you can address this problem there. Thank you

This is what they wrote me back:

Hello,

Thank you for your email. Please return the item to where you purchased it for a refund.

As for the toxicity of RYR, it is used by tens of millions of people around the world on a daily basis including myself with no ill effects.

Thank you again,

Ray Campbell
Customer Service
Anabolic Innovations
Healthy Cheat Foods

Hmm not much help. I emailed him back with a more clear explanation.

 

[Condition1]

Ok so I wrote Anabolic innovations, I wrote:



This is what they wrote me back:



Hmm not much help. I emailed him back with a more clear explanation.

Nutraplanet offered to trade the RYR version for the RYR free one. As for the one that I opened out of curiosity, they don't do exchanges for opened bottles.

 

[maynehood171]

I still think you guys are paranoid

 

[Condition1]

I still think you guys are paranoid

Maybe true, but for good reason.

Or maybe not... but that's what we're trying to clear up.

 

[AlexParty]

Like they say, "Better to be safe than sorry", love that motto. Ya I might trade in my unopened bottle for free RYR version. Do you have to pay shipping for them to send you our the free RYR?

 

[SOLARUS]

now that I think about it...isn't RYR for heart/cholesterol mostly and not particularly the liver?

yes. see my toothpaste:acid analogy above. imagine the acid helps with, i dunno...digestion or something.

(sorry if i am wasting everyone's time with dumb analogies!)

cholesterol almost always comes back down when a cycle is over...mine went from 185 to 123 when i came off one time. i'm not sure why folks are so amped about transient hyperlipidemic effects.

 

[AlexParty]

yes. see my toothpaste:acid analogy above. imagine the acid helps with, i dunno...digestion or something.

(sorry if i am wasting everyone's time with dumb analogies!)

cholesterol almost always comes back down when a cycle is over...mine went from 185 to 123 when i came off one time. i'm not sure why folks are so amped about transient hyperlipidemic effects.

Definitely good points Solarus. If you bought a cycle support with RYR don't open it and just return it for the RYR free version.

 

[pantera101]

yes. see my toothpaste:acid analogy above. imagine the acid helps with, i dunno...digestion or something.

(sorry if i am wasting everyone's time with dumb analogies!)

cholesterol almost always comes back down when a cycle is over...mine went from 185 to 123 when i came off one time. i'm not sure why folks are so amped about transient hyperlipidemic effects.

Then why are you worried about a self regenerating liver? :think:

 

[maynehood171]

yes. see my toothpaste:acid analogy above. imagine the acid helps with, i dunno...digestion or something.

(sorry if i am wasting everyone's time with dumb analogies!)

cholesterol almost always comes back down when a cycle is over...mine went from 185 to 123 when i came off one time. i'm not sure why folks are so amped about transient hyperlipidemic effects.

Analogies are great for understanding

 

[zbtboy]

my point is that most people use CS because they are concerned about the detrimental effects of 17aa's on liver function (among other things)...when a rep says that a liver-damaging component of CS is no big deal because the liver is regenerative - it's pretty ridiculous.

When and where did a rep for AI state this? just curious.

There is science that shows only high dosages of RYR as being toxic to the liver; dosages that are much higher than what is offered up in CS. To many this is a non issue. If its an issue for you or anyone else go ahead and trade your CS back in for the RYR free version. We offer the RYR free version to our customers for the exact reasons shown in this thread. Do we believe RYR poses any problems?..no. But we're also going to offer a product up for people who believe otherwise.

For those that emailed Crowler or anyone at AI and are having trouble getting a response, feel free to PM me or any other rep and we'll work on getting you the RYR free product.

 

[pantera101]

Ziquor said it,but he's not a rep.

 

[maynehood171]

<---not worried

 

[CROWLER]

Literally hundreds of thousands of people have used RYR for decades before during and after a cycle all over the world.

I personally have no problem using it every day as I have for many many years.

If a person thinks they don't want to use RYR then of course that is their personal choice, for me after reading the data I will continue using it before during and after my Epistane/Havoc cycles.


CROWLER

 

[SOLARUS]

Then why are you worried about a self regenerating liver? :think:

i'm not, not in the slightest...i gave up on all "cycle support" herbs and assorted useless crap years ago (no offense to AI/Crowler - there is always a market for supplements to ease people's minds about the damage they do to their bodies). i'm just rather amused at the slightly twisted logic being used here.

if "cycle support" was given a different name and marketed as a year-round "good health" supplement, i doubt it would sell half as well on these steroid boards. it sort of plays on steroid user paranoia...not that there arent many other products that do the same, and dont get me wrong i dont think it's necessarily dishonest or unethical.

again, no disrespect to Crowler - i loved your pancakes

 

[AlexParty]

Literally hundreds of thousands of people have used RYR for decades before during and after a cycle all over the world.

I personally have no problem using it every day as I have for many many years.

If a person thinks they don't want to use RYR then of course that is their personal choice, for me after reading the data I will continue using it before during and after my Epistane/Havoc cycles.


CROWLER

We all agree that Anabolic innovations is a top notch company. Cycle support is the base of any cycle and is a must. The only thing that was brought to our attention was the RYR. Cycle support is an awesome product and would never return it for a refund, I would maybe just send back the one that I didn't open for the free RYR. Any cycle that I ever run will have cycle support by it's side.

 

[AlexParty]

i'm not, not in the slightest...i gave up on all "cycle support" herbs and assorted useless crap years ago (no offense to AI/Crowler - there is always a market for supplements to ease people's minds about the damage they do to their bodies). i'm just rather amused at the slightly twisted logic being used here.

if "cycle support" was given a different name and marketed as a year-round "good health" supplement, i doubt it would sell half as well on these steroid boards. it sort of plays on steroid user paranoia...not that there arent many other products that do the same, and dont get me wrong i dont think it's necessarily dishonest or unethical.

again, no disrespect to Crowler - i loved your pancakes

Compare Cycle support Free RYD to lets say Perfect cycle Liver support by Anabolic Xtreme, you'll see the comparison that CS by AI is better.

 

[ImJ2x]

Here's my only concern...
I thought RYR was no longer useful for cholesterol support, as it no longer functions like a statin (due to FDAhole regulations). So why include RYR at all?

 

[zbtboy]

Your free to think what you want. But this "useless crap" has a lot of scientific studies to back it up and we have a lot of great bloodwork to show how effective our product is.

i'm not, not in the slightest...i gave up on all "cycle support" herbs and assorted useless crap years ago (no offense to AI/Crowler - there is always a market for supplements to ease people's minds about the damage they do to their bodies). i'm just rather amused at the slightly twisted logic being used here.

if "cycle support" was given a different name and marketed as a year-round "good health" supplement, i doubt it would sell half as well on these steroid boards. it sort of plays on steroid user paranoia...not that there arent many other products that do the same, and dont get me wrong i dont think it's necessarily dishonest or unethical.

again, no disrespect to Crowler - i loved your pancakes

 

[CROWLER]

i'm not, not in the slightest...i gave up on all "cycle support" herbs and assorted useless crap years ago (no offense to AI/Crowler - there is always a market for supplements to ease people's minds about the damage they do to their bodies). i'm just rather amused at the slightly twisted logic being used here.

if "cycle support" was given a different name and marketed as a year-round "good health" supplement, i doubt it would sell half as well on these steroid boards. it sort of plays on steroid user paranoia...not that there arent many other products that do the same, and dont get me wrong i dont think it's necessarily dishonest or unethical.

again, no disrespect to Crowler - i loved your pancakes

No offense taken SOLARUS thank you for the discussion.

Actually we do have a supplement which is taken year round and it outsells almost every supplement we produce. The name is Life Support

ZBT is right there is quite a bit of research to support the ingredients in both Life Support and Cycle Support.


CROWLER

 

[pantera101]

i'm not, not in the slightest...i gave up on all "cycle support" herbs and assorted useless crap years ago (no offense to AI/Crowler - there is always a market for supplements to ease people's minds about the damage they do to their bodies). i'm just rather amused at the slightly twisted logic being used here.

if "cycle support" was given a different name and marketed as a year-round "good health" supplement, i doubt it would sell half as well on these steroid boards. it sort of plays on steroid user paranoia...not that there arent many other products that do the same, and dont get me wrong i dont think it's necessarily dishonest or unethical.

again, no disrespect to Crowler - i loved your pancakes

I gothcya now!I was so confused though at first.I would not give up on BP support though.Do a cycle without and check BP and then with and check it.I don't know for sure,but I'm willing to bet some hawthorne berry will show much less of an increase.I have borderline Bp naturally,and I'm goint to keep hawthorne berry at a max dose yr round,so I'll see what happens.I had it at the minimum since the cycle before last,but that didn't do much being it was borderline before last cycle.I should of cheked way before.......

I guess high BP and cholesterol take a while to have a negative affect.........the liver will repair itself if not pushed too far........I choose to use them though.Conveniently with CS,and then continuing hawthorne berry afterwards.

 

[Haltera]

Here's my only concern...
I thought RYR was no longer useful for cholesterol support, as it no longer functions like a statin (due to FDAhole regulations). So why include RYR at all?

Haha, thats exactly the same question I formulated some posts before yours in this thread...
RYR w/o lovastatin = ??????????????

 

[ImJ2x]

Haha, thats exactly the same question I formulated some posts before yours in this thread...
RYR w/o lovastatin = ??????????????

I looked back and you did ask the same question. And AI didn't answer either one of us. So I feel obliged to engage in conjecture...
Either:
1. AI has a ton of RYR-inclusive Cycle Support that they simply need to unload, regardless of whether RYR is effective or not.
Or:
2. AI has found a way to skirt (or simply ignore) the FDAhole's regulations regarding RYR, and AI's RYR still is an effective statin.
I guess we'll have to continue speculating until we hear from AI. :think:

 

[Condition1]

Like they say, "Better to be safe than sorry", love that motto. Ya I might trade in my unopened bottle for free RYR version. Do you have to pay shipping for them to send you our the free RYR?

"Hello friend. We have offered the ryr free version for quite awhile now.
We do not take returns on opened items, but we will take the unopened
one, and send you the ryr free version. Please include a copy of this
correspondence for faster processing. Take care"-- Nutraplanet


Yeah that's what it's looking like.

I think it's fair considering they have to pay to ship a bottle. It's also not their fault.

 

[maynehood171]

"Hello friend. We have offered the ryr free version for quite awhile now.
We do not take returns on opened items, but we will take the unopened
one, and send you the ryr free version. Please include a copy of this
correspondence for faster processing. Take care"-- Nutraplanet


Yeah that's what it's looking like.

I think it's fair considering they have to pay to ship a bottle. It's also not their fault.

Reminds me of the time when one person came in here saying his M-drol was bunk because he didn't make super-duper gains and created a scare amongst the people here. People frenzied over this and all wanted their bottle swapped when in actuality it was just their paranoia and the batch was fine...:hammer::afro:

 

[AlexParty]

Reminds me of the time when one person came in here saying his M-drol was bunk because he didn't make super-duper gains and created a scare amongst the people here. People frenzied over this and all wanted their bottle swapped when in actuality it was just their paranoia and the batch was fine...:hammer::afro:

That's fcuking hilarious.

Condition did you try contacting AI or Crowler?

 

[Mach .78]

So as an everyday supp. should I just take 1 scoop of cycle support?

I've taken it at the recommended dose for SD and PP. My chol. profile came back bad recently and my liver value was up also. I haven't touched phs for awhile now. (a year or more)

Thanks Mach