Havoc Cycle ? for the Pro’s

[pricedw]

I am about to start my 1st cycle ever. 1 week on cycle support already, all my products are here.

There is so much info on this site it is easy to get overwhelmed. Whish there was a good book or write-up on what’s legal & how to cycle & stack it.

If you pro’s could look it over I sure would appreciate it. Just want to make sure I am going in the right direction.

35yr, 240lb, 18%BF, lifting 10yr serious-2yr, 1yr Macro-bolic diet. I want to add some more mass & drop the BF%. When BF is down I then want start a 2nd major mass stack cycle after 6wek rest period.

Havoc (by RPN)
6-week Cycle mg 20/20/30/30/20/10
20: 10, 30min pre, and 10 post workout
30: 20, 30min pre, and 10 post workout
10: 10, 30min pre workout

Propadrol (by EST)
Week 1 1-evening
Week 2-6 2-evening

Cycle Support (by Anabolic Innovations)
Start 1-Week before cycle 1-dose with morning shake
Week 1-6, 1-dose with morning & noon shake

Super Cissus (by Rx)
All the time, 3-30min before workout (per shoulder injury 6-months ago)

Animal Pak Multi-V (by Animal)
All the time, 1hr after workout

BCAA's
All the time, 3-3x’s between meals

Oils
All the time, 1-evening
1. Primrose Oil
2. Cod Liver Oil
3. Fish Oil

Protein (by GoldStandard)
All the time,
1. Whey shake with raw oats & berries breakfast
2. Whey shake after workout
3. Casein/whey shake before bed
4. 6-meals a day with 2g of protein per body weight. (chicken, fish, mainly w/some lean red meat)

Taurine
Only if need for back bumps

Post Cycle Support (by: Anabolic Innovations)
6-weeks


Should I take 6-Oxy or is Cycle support enough.

Thanks for any help

 

[dkkon1]

I would get a SERM as your natural test production will be low post cycle, and estrogen will be rebounding after being suppressed on cycle. This will create a situation of Low Test. VS High Estogen, not a good situation, a good way to lose some of your gains, not to mention estrogen related sides (gyno). I'm no saying this will happen, only that it could (and that would be enough for me to not run this cycle without a serm, which would jumpstart your natural test, and stave off estrogen rebound (that is why its such a valuable tool for the AAS user. Another thing is that you shouldn't taper down your dosage. Tapering up is great but tapering down is waste of pills and will not serve much of purpose. Also at 240lbs you may want to up your dosage a bit.

Here's what I'd Do if I weighed 240 (sadly I never will ):

Wk 1 -20mg
Wk 2 -30mg
Wk 3 -40mg
Wk 4 -40mg
Wk 5 -40mg
Wk 6 -40mg


PCT

Wk 7 -Nolvadex(Serm) Day 1-3 40mg/day, Day 4-7 30mg/day
Wk 8 -Nolvadex 20mg/day all week
Wk 9 -Nolvadex Day 1-3 20mg/day, Day 4-7 10mg/day
Wk 10-Nolvadex 10mg/day all week

Good Luck Man!!!

 

[pricedw]

Thanks
I will follow your advice.

 

[dkkon1]

Price, you are a great pupil(I only mean as far as AAS go, I don't doubt your knowledge of all the rest: after all, YOU ARE 240LBS MAN!!!), You would be surprised how many people lay out a cycle like you did and ask for advice, but reject anything that deviates from what they think is right. Anyway, good luck man and be safe. Don't be afraid to ask us questions or pm me if you need.

 

[pricedw]

What is good to boost energy prior to workout & not affect my Havoc cycle & not cause a light headed feeling?

Do I still need 6-OXO with SERM?

If blood work is not bad, will 6-OXO work, so I can save SERM (Tamoxifen) for a harder cycle?

Also, I got the liquid Tamoxifen, I thought they were pills, do I inject the liquid or take it orally?

For any interested Cycle is going great. Fat is coming down & strength & muscle size is increasing, no side effects what so ever, if it weren’t for the strength & muscle increase, I wouldn’t think I was taking anything. This is my 3rd week. However it did take a week for ever thing to kick in, I saw no results the first week at 20mg, 2week at 30mg went great, 3rd week at 40mg not bad either.

 

[crader]

The Tamxofine should be oral. You can take any stim before workout and it won't affect your cycle.

I would use the serm in place of 6 OXO. I'm glad your cycle is going well!

 

[pricedw]

Thanks for the help.

 

[pricedw]

I am starting to see 4-stomach abs show through the gut, getting excited. Can I speed up the process & cut with this cycle? If so, what would you recommend? Or should I wait till PCT or after?

 

[10195079]

I'm wondering about your dosing schedule choice, why are you dosing the Havoc pre and post workout? Are the pre and post work out doses helping with your routine, increased concentration and strength?

The only reason i ask is because i've seen several posts that suggest Havoc should be taken every 6 hours, in order to maintain a constant level of the epi compund in the body (half life of Havoc = 6 hours)?

 

[faetfiada]

I'm wondering about your dosing schedule choice, why are you dosing the Havoc pre and post workout? Are the pre and post work out doses helping with your routine, increased concentration and strength?

The only reason i ask is because i've seen several posts that suggest Havoc should be taken every 6 hours, in order to maintain a constant level of the epi compund in the body (half life of Havoc = 6 hours)?

i dosed with first meal which is preworkout, i dosed again with my 4th meal which was about 8 hrs later.

 

[DoninSoCal]

I agree with getting to the 40mg/day dose as quickly as you can (your body telling you its not feeling liver stress or other sides) at 240 lbs. I took 40 mg for two weeks at 205 lbs and it was juuuuuuust right :cheers: Also the liquid tamoxifen is like drinking jet fuel - do it anyway You also want to continue the Cycle Support (I use the Life Support cause I like the caps) or AX Perfect Cycle through the PCT - the tamox is liver toxic.

 

[DoninSoCal]

I also ran an ECA stack for the last two weeks of my cycle - just pre workout, gets me jacked

 

[Trauma1]

I am about to start my 1st cycle ever. 1 week on cycle support already, all my products are here.

There is so much info on this site it is easy to get overwhelmed. Whish there was a good book or write-up on what’s legal & how to cycle & stack it.

If you pro’s could look it over I sure would appreciate it. Just want to make sure I am going in the right direction.

35yr, 240lb, 18%BF, lifting 10yr serious-2yr, 1yr Macro-bolic diet. I want to add some more mass & drop the BF%. When BF is down I then want start a 2nd major mass stack cycle after 6wek rest period.

Havoc (by RPN)
6-week Cycle mg 20/20/30/30/20/10
20: 10, 30min pre, and 10 post workout
30: 20, 30min pre, and 10 post workout
10: 10, 30min pre workout

Propadrol (by EST)
Week 1 1-evening
Week 2-6 2-evening

Cycle Support (by Anabolic Innovations)
Start 1-Week before cycle 1-dose with morning shake
Week 1-6, 1-dose with morning & noon shake

Super Cissus (by Rx)
All the time, 3-30min before workout (per shoulder injury 6-months ago)

Animal Pak Multi-V (by Animal)
All the time, 1hr after workout

BCAA's
All the time, 3-3x’s between meals

Oils
All the time, 1-evening
1. Primrose Oil
2. Cod Liver Oil
3. Fish Oil

Protein (by GoldStandard)
All the time,
1. Whey shake with raw oats & berries breakfast
2. Whey shake after workout
3. Casein/whey shake before bed
4. 6-meals a day with 2g of protein per body weight. (chicken, fish, mainly w/some lean red meat)

Taurine
Only if need for back bumps

Post Cycle Support (by: Anabolic Innovations)
6-weeks


Should I take 6-Oxy or is Cycle support enough.

Thanks for any help

Here's a good read i put together that will help you out:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/recomp-performance-nutrition/82835-havoc-write-up-3.html#post1262878

 

[pricedw]

I'm wondering about your dosing schedule choice, why are you dosing the Havoc pre and post workout? Are the pre and post work out doses helping with your routine, increased concentration and strength?

The only reason i ask is because i've seen several posts that suggest Havoc should be taken every 6 hours, in order to maintain a constant level of the epi compund in the body (half life of Havoc = 6 hours)?

I put my cycle together based on logs from others. I know pre & post are important times for nutrients. This is my first cycle so I can't give you a good answer. Still learning myself. Taking 20mg 1hour before workout & right after is working well for me. In just 3weeks by bench went up 50lbs. Mood, energy all the same, if it weren’t for the great strength increase, & muscle increase I would not think I was on anything.

 

[pricedw]

Here's a good read i put together that will help you out:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/recomp-performance-nutrition/82835-havoc-write-up-3.html#post1262878

Great write-up thanks for the help Trauma1.

 

[Trauma1]

Great write-up thanks for the help Trauma1.

No problem my friend.

 

[pricedw]

I think I might be getting gyno.

I have very slight puffiness around the nipple, but as soon as I touch them they get hard & the puffiness goes away. I am hoping that it is just soft tissue. Before my cycle I had soft muscle in the chest, now it is rock hard, it almost seems & feels like implants, the only area that is still a little soft is the nipple area. Also my nipples for the last several weeks get hard like a woman’s & very easy, is this normal?

I was thinking about cutting out the propadol for the last week & ½. Should I start on some 6-OXO or my SERM, end my cycle at 5-weeks, any suggestions greatly appreciated?

6-week Cycle Recap
Havoc
Wk 1 -20mg
Wk 2 -30mg
Wk 3 -40mg
Wk 4 -40mg
Wk 5 -40mg
Wk 6 -40mg
Propadrol
Week 1 1-evening
Week 2-6 2-evening

 

[faetfiada]

I think I might be getting gyno.

I have very slight puffiness around the nipple, but as soon as I touch them they get hard & the puffiness goes away. I am hoping that it is just soft tissue. Before my cycle I had soft muscle in the chest, now it is rock hard, it almost seems & feels like implants, the only area that is still a little soft is the nipple area. Also my nipples for the last several weeks get hard like a woman’s & very easy, is this normal?

I was thinking about cutting out the propadol for the last week & ½. Should I start on some 6-OXO or my SERM, end my cycle at 5-weeks, any suggestions greatly appreciated?

6-week Cycle Recap
Havoc
Wk 1 -20mg
Wk 2 -30mg
Wk 3 -40mg
Wk 4 -40mg
Wk 5 -40mg
Wk 6 -40mg
Propadrol
Week 1 1-evening
Week 2-6 2-evening

can you post a picture?

 

[pricedw]

GYNO_1 - My Photo Gallery

I think I am ok, I finally down loaded my before pictures & I am seeing the same puffiness before the cycle. I guess I am just worried due to the strange nipple hardness? I did not take the propadal last night. This morning I did not see the puffiness that I saw last night.

What do you think?

 

[faetfiada]

GYNO_1 - My Photo Gallery

I think I am ok, I finally down loaded my before pictures & I am seeing the same puffiness before the cycle. I guess I am just worried due to the strange nipple hardness? I did not take the propadal last night. This morning I did not see the puffiness that I saw last night.

What do you think?

i see nothing there.... but that's just my opinion. i got a little paranoid after my epi because i couldn't remember how sensitive my nips were beforehand. So these pics are before or after you stopped taking prop?

 

[Nightwanderer]

one thing I'll say is that there were a few random days where my nipples seemed overly sensitive, and I was told by others here that it's relatively normal while on a cycle. So, don't worry too hard over gyno, as some sensitivity may be nothing serious.

 

[Marcinator]

Man you seem like you're doing it right....how much of your gains do you expect to keep? I mean, from all the research and feedback....are you expecting to come out of this pretty far ahead in the months after you end your PCT???

 

[pricedw]

i see nothing there.... but that's just my opinion. i got a little paranoid after my epi because i couldn't remember how sensitive my nips were beforehand. So these pics are before or after you stopped taking prop?

The picture was taken yesterday I stopped taking propadal the night before. I went ahead & took it last night after comparing pictures.

 

[faetfiada]

The picture was taken yesterday I stopped taking propadal the night before. I went ahead & took it last night after comparing pictures.

well if you have puffiness and stop taking, and it goes away... stop taking it.

 

[pricedw]

Man you seem like you're doing it right....how much of your gains do you expect to keep? I mean, from all the research and feedback....are you expecting to come out of this pretty far ahead in the months after you end your PCT???

I would like to keep as much as possible. How much do you think I will loose?

All my figures are at the house but if memory serves me well here are a few statistics at my 4-week mark.

Chest increase 3”
Arm increase 5/8”
Leg increase 1”
Gut ½” less
Body fat 4% less
Calves, forearms & body weight the same

Almost all weight exercises went up 30 to 60lbs at 6-reps.

I will post before & after pictures & what I did after cycle is complete. I will also be getting blood work next Tuesday.

 

[Brian5225]

Lookin good bro! I wouldn't get TOO worried about the puffiness. If a lump starts to develop and they get extremely sensitive then you know you have a problem. If they get overly sensitive or constantly itchy, just add a low dose of 6-oxo till it subsides...

 

[delsolrob]

I would like to keep as much as possible. How much do you think I will loose?

All my figures are at the house but if memory serves me well here are a few statistics at my 4-week mark.

Chest increase 3”
Arm increase 5/8”
Leg increase 1”
Gut ½” less
Body fat 4% less
Calves, forearms & body weight the same

Almost all weight exercises went up 30 to 60lbs at 6-reps.

I will post before & after pictures & what I did after cycle is complete. I will also be getting blood work next Tuesday.

sounds like a very successfull cycle!!! great work!

I can't believe you stayed the same weight but dropped that much bf...

 

[pricedw]

I am in week 7. My bottle of Tamoxifea Citrate is liquid it says “25mg/ml 60ml”. The syringe in the bottle says .0.75ML, 0.5ML, 0.25ML & 1.0ML. How much do I need to take to get the 40mg a day dose?

If I remember correctly 1ml=1000ML

So 25mg would be .06ML

So I need another syringe that reads lower.

It just seems like such a small amount (a couple drops) that I wanted to double check.

 

[delsolrob]

for 40mg you would need 1.6ml of your nolva for your 20mg dose you would need .8ml of nolva

 

[pricedw]

for 40mg you would need 1.6ml of your nolva for your 20mg dose you would need .8ml of nolva

Thanks, a great help.

 

[pricedw]

I finally got my blood work back.

Cholesterol & liver enzymes very high. The doctor thought I might have Hepatitis, I told him I don’t it’s due to some supplements I am taking. We will check blood again in a few weeks, he wanted to give me a drug to lower my cholesterol I told him lets weight.
I was surprised to see this high any suggestions on what might help my liver & Cholesterol per results below? Have any of you had similar blood work? I am still following PCT as outlined in the beginning.

Alkaline Phosate, S
AST (SGOT) 105 High (normal 0-40)
ALT (SGPT) 255 High (normal 0-55)

Lipid Panel
Cholesterol, Total 239 High (normal 100-199)
Triglycerides 168 High (normal 0-149)
HDL Cholesterol 6 Low (normal 40-59)
LDL Cholesterol 199 High (normal 0-99)