Anavar Cycle. shutdown concern

[austin4023]

Hello everyone Im 20 yrs old 5"10 180 lbs.... this will be 3rd cycle, first cycle was test E at 300 mg/week for 10 weeks... 2nd cycle was sustanon at 400mg/week... saw very good gains form both I am going to run an anavar only cycle possibly. 50 mg of anavar everyday.

My goals are to put on lean muscle and increase strength while keeping all my gains.

Now I have read that anavar causes a serious test shutdown which in turn means no sex drive. Now that is a big problem for me.... I have read that running proviron is an option to counteract this but Im a little afraid of balding.

I have also read that running like 250 mg of test a week is a good way to keep ur **** working normally. I think Im leaning toward this option, but I just wanna make sure that this will definately work, so if you guys can give me some input or any other options to prevent shutdown lemme know. thanks again fellas

 

[SOLARUS]

I just wanna make sure that this will definately work, so if you guys can give me some input or any other options to prevent shutdown lemme know. thanks again fellas

HCG is the best option...keeps natty test flowing no matter what. or, you could run T itself at 250mg/week, but you'd have to deal with the sides it presents (not that that is a bad thing...)

 

[austin4023]

Yea im leaning towards just running test e at 250mg/week because at this low of dosage I dont think Ill get any sides or bloating..... do you think this will be sufficient to keep things running smoothly

 

[milwood]

You're 20 years old and you weigh 180 and you're running all this stuff? I think that's a bigger problem! I'm not trying to flame you brother, but seriously! It's really going to be hard for you to keep gaining on gear as the years go by if you hit it too hard at 20! Please just keep an open mind, lots of guys will tell you that at 20, less is more.

 

[austin4023]

i know........ I havent really run any complex or heavy cycles and im tryin to keep it that way thats why im goin wit a var cycle for pre beach season, I put alot of size on durin the past few months, and Im jus lookin for some strength gains and muscle hardness

 

[dra05ke]

im currently running the same exact cycle but im starting off with winny to help gains some lean muscle before test kicks in ..ive tried anavar alone cycles many times and it shuts me down big time ..dont let anyone ever tell you it does not suppress you..i am taking 375 mg/test E for first two weeks ..then dropping to 250 mg/week once i start the var next week. these first two weeks havent noticed much except for the test flu ..look into proviron 50 mg/day along with the test E 250 ..that will DEFINITELY keep your libido up ..im only one and half weeks in and my libido is already through the roof ..you can check out my log Test E/winny/var in the sterioids forum ..havent updated anything yet as the test hasnt kicked in so nothing to report ....but to answer your questions ...YES ..250 mg/test E a week is plenty to keep libido up and not feel lethargic from the anavar...but if i were you and you can afford it pick up some proviron it will make the test work better and you also wont get any bloat either ..PM me if you have any questions ..ill be happy to answer and provide as much info as im capable of.

 

[nunes]

Hello everyone Im 20 yrs old 5"10 180 lbs.... this will be 3rd cycle, first cycle was test E at 300 mg/week for 10 weeks... 2nd cycle was sustanon at 400mg/week... saw very good gains form both I am going to run an anavar only cycle possibly. 50 mg of anavar everyday.

My goals are to put on lean muscle and increase strength while keeping all my gains.

Now I have read that anavar causes a serious test shutdown which in turn means no sex drive. Now that is a big problem for me.... I have read that running proviron is an option to counteract this but Im a little afraid of balding.

I have also read that running like 250 mg of test a week is a good way to keep ur **** working normally. I think Im leaning toward this option, but I just wanna make sure that this will definately work, so if you guys can give me some input or any other options to prevent shutdown lemme know. thanks again fellas

I have done 2 anavar cycles with no shutdown, serum test levels can decrease (dose dependent) but 100% its very unlikely with var.
about hcg see this thread:http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/87070-hcg-usage-cycle.html

 

[nephilim666]

var will not cause shutdown on its own used for normal periods of time.

 

[dra05ke]

i used 60 mg/ED for only 3 1/2 weeks and got shut down..

 

[austin4023]

yea it seems there is a 50/50 split between ppl on anavar. Alot of ppl claim it wont shut you down, but if that is true then why do i see all over the place that it does

 

[CHAPS]

Hello everyone Im 20 yrs old 5"10 180 lbs.... this will be 3rd cycle, first cycle was test E at 300 mg/week for 10 weeks... 2nd cycle was sustanon at 400mg/week... saw very good gains form both I am going to run an anavar only cycle possibly. 50 mg of anavar everyday.

My goals are to put on lean muscle and increase strength while keeping all my gains.

Now I have read that anavar causes a serious test shutdown which in turn means no sex drive. Now that is a big problem for me.... I have read that running proviron is an option to counteract this but Im a little afraid of balding.

I have also read that running like 250 mg of test a week is a good way to keep ur **** working normally. I think Im leaning toward this option, but I just wanna make sure that this will definately work, so if you guys can give me some input or any other options to prevent shutdown lemme know. thanks again fellas

Run atleast 250mg test along with the var, var can lower sex drive in men but seems to increase it in women :head:

 

[jonny21]

var will not cause shutdown on its own used for normal periods of time.

Normal periods of time? For a anavar cycle that is about 6-10 weeks. Do you have labwork or evidence to back up your statement? Otherwise, it's just conjecture. Now, there are varying degrees of suppression and oxandrolone may be mild but it is suppression nonetheless. Complete shutdown would be dependant on dosage and duration.

The thread starter should be warned that they are not allowed to be posting in this section.

 

[n2bnbig]

var will not cause shutdown on its own used for normal periods of time.

do you have any blood test or studies to back this claim up?

what is a "normal" period of time?

 

[Beebs]

var will not cause shutdown on its own used for normal periods of time.

Bad advice

Short-Term Oxandrolone Administration Stimulates Net Muscle Protein Synthesis in Young Men -- Sheffield-Moore et al. 84 (8): 2705 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

This study shows decrease in testosterone levels of 37% after only 5 days of 15mg oxandrolone ED in healthy males. Scroll down to figure 3.

 

[austin4023]

thanks guys great advice, I think Im just gonna run test e at 250mg/week and do 4 weeks nolva for pct, thanks again fellas

 

[nephilim666]

i cant say ive ever heard of runnign a test base for anavar... if anything increase the test dosage to 350-400 and make use of it. var for me is a lackluster compound even at high doses and i have found that it does not supress me. that came from personal xp as well as knowing many competitors who use it with minimal supression. less then dbol less then tbol way less then winstrol.

 

[SOLARUS]

var will not cause shutdown on its own used for normal periods of time.

i hate to flame someone randomly in a thread, but you're a virtual geyser of misinformation on this board. every place i see you post it's a bunch of unscientific nonsense and utter regurgitation.

please remember the "minds" part of the URL, it's not meant as a joke.

reps for Beebs for posting that clinical study. telling people the truth is less effective than showing it to them!

 

[nunes]

reduction of serum test levels its not 100%shutdown, most unlikely this will happen with var

 

[jonny21]

reduction of serum test levels its not 100%shutdown, most unlikely this will happen with var

But the eventuality is dependant upon dosage and duration. Increase the dose and the duration and it is inevitable.

 

[austin4023]

i cant say ive ever heard of runnign a test base for anavar... if anything increase the test dosage to 350-400 and make use of it. var for me is a lackluster compound even at high doses and i have found that it does not supress me. that came from personal xp as well as knowing many competitors who use it with minimal supression. less then dbol less then tbol way less then winstrol.

Im not using it as a base im just using it to counteract potential shutdown.... I dont have huge aspirations for this cycle all I want is an increase in strength, some lean muscle hoping for like 8-12lbs, and an increase in muscle hardness(maybe a little fat loss)..... and I am confident that anavar will do this for me. I have also decide to run 60mg per day instead of 50.

 

[SOLARUS]

reduction of serum test levels its not 100%shutdown, most unlikely this will happen with var

semantics.

if 15mg for 5 days can make it drop by 37%, imagine what the average 50mg/6week cycle does...

this study also shows var suppression of T:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16540931?ordinalpos=6&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

as does this one:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8574271?ordinalpos=53&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

(interestingly, that one also showed a large increase in fat from using deca)

and this one:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8319371?ordinalpos=61&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

don't get me wrong, i think var is pretty good stuff, but dont be fooled by old-schoolers or (more commonly) parrots saying it doesnt suppress you significantly enough to warrant a PCT.

 

[austin4023]

Thanks solarus... Im not gonna believe that and not do PCT.... im gonna be running four weeks of nolvadex

 

[nunes]

semantics.

if 15mg for 5 days can make it drop by 37%, imagine what the average 50mg/6week cycle does...

this study also shows var suppression of T:

Oxandrolone in the treatment of HIV-associated wei...[J Acquir Immune Defic Syndr. 2006] - PubMed Result

as does this one:

Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parentera...[Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1995] - PubMed Result

(interestingly, that one also showed a large increase in fat from using deca)

and this one:

The effects of oxandrolone on the growth hormone a...[Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1993] - PubMed Result

don't get me wrong, i think var is pretty good stuff, but dont be fooled by old-schoolers or (more commonly) parrots saying it doesnt suppress you significantly enough to warrant a PCT.

I never said pct wasn't needed , what i can say its that I have run 2 var cycles for 4 weeks 50mg ed and never felt 100% shutdown, my libido was fine and no lethargy .
I know that this depends on the individual but 100% shutdown didn't happen on my cycles but of course that pct was a must have in every steroid cycle.

 

[Beebs]

I never said pct wasn't needed , what i can say its that I have run 2 var cycles for 4 weeks 50mg ed and never felt 100% shutdown, my libido was fine and no lethargy .
I know that this depends on the individual but 100% shutdown didn't happen on my cycles but of course that pct was a must have in every steroid cycle.

Well, I've run a 14 week cycle of test with a tbol kickstart and never felt 100% shut down.

 

[nunes]

Well, I've run a 14 week cycle of test with a tbol kickstart and never felt 100% shut down.

I dont know if you`re trying to be sarcastic or not but your post can only be a joke.
if you take test you`ll never feel test suppresion , daaaahhhh:think:
My cycles were var only and you can be sure that if I was 100% suppressed with it, I would have a var ****(in semblance to a deca ****) with libido crash and lethargy for sure because of the estrogen suppression, the last time I done blood work my test levels were above the upper limit so its normal that if I had a 50-60% reduction on cycle I still was on the normal range, of course this depends on the individual but in my case its this the way it happened

 

[austin4023]

Hey nunes what kinda gains did u see on your var cycles... just curious

 

[nunes]

Hey nunes what kinda gains did u see on your var cycles... just curious

In terms of mass gains I haven't seen much, 2kgs (but my friends said I look bigger), what I really notice was more cut and much more vascularity.

 

[austin4023]

In terms of mass gains I haven't seen much, 2kgs (but my friends said I look bigger), what I really notice was more cut and much more vascularity.

What about strength increase

 

[nephilim666]

ya solarus minds. plural . the majority of my information comes from my gym full of competitors, we all do the relativley same cycles and have the same doctor for all of us

 

[nunes]

What about strength increase

yes , I forgot to say, strenght was up 20-30%

 

[Beebs]

I dont know if you`re trying to be sarcastic or not but your post can only be a joke.
if you take test you`ll never feel test suppresion , daaaahhhh:think:
My cycles were var only and you can be sure that if I was 100% suppressed with it, I would have a var ****(in semblance to a deca ****) with libido crash and lethargy for sure because of the estrogen suppression, the last time I done blood work my test levels were above the upper limit so its normal that if I had a 50-60% reduction on cycle I still was on the normal range, of course this depends on the individual but in my case its this the way it happened

I was talking about HPTA suppression not testosterone suppression which btw, I've never heard of before. Libido and lethargy are poor indicators of test levels when your on an exogenous androgen imho. I'm not arguing that with you on the fact that var is mild, but it will still cause suppression beyond what people consider normal. Just look at the studies. Also, there really is no reason to distinguish between being shutdown and suppressed. Both indicate compromised HPTA's which will require a full PCT to recover from.

 

[nunes]

I was talking about HPTA suppression not testosterone suppression which btw, I've never heard of before. Libido and lethargy are poor indicators of test levels when your on an exogenous androgen imho. I'm not arguing that with you on the fact that var is mild, but it will still cause suppression beyond what people consider normal. Just look at the studies. Also, there really is no reason to distinguish between being shutdown and suppressed. Both indicate compromised HPTA's which will require a full PCT to recover from.

I disagree, with non aromatizable compounds such as oxandrolone lethargy its definitely a indicator of test suppression(test suppression= estrogen depletion=lethargy)and lack of libido is one of the most common complaints of high suppressive steroids , except testosterone of course.
one more thing, I found hard to believe that your htpa was working when you were taking exogenous test , and the test suppression its what causes the side effects not the htpa function (the major concern of the htpa its the production of testosterone, it doesnt matter all the actions that leads to it and the others that follow)

 

[Beebs]

I disagree, with non aromatizable compounds such as oxandrolone lethargy its definitely a indicator of test suppression(test suppression= estrogen depletion=lethargy)and lack of libido is one of the most common complaints of high suppressive steroids , except testosterone of course.
one more thing, I found hard to believe that your htpa was working when you were taking exogenous test , and the test suppression its what causes the side effects not the htpa function (the major concern of the htpa its the production of testosterone, it doesnt matter all the actions that leads to it and the others that follow)

For the most part you're right, but the lack of libido can more typically be caused by the compound itself than the supression present. You can be supressed and still have a strong libido and high energy levels. Meanwhile you can have a high level of serum testosterone, but at the same time have a low libido.

For example, if you took a hrt dosage of test cyp (200mg/w) along with 400mg of deca a week, you would suffer from lack of libido. Your test levels and estrogen levels would still be high enough to support health libido function, but the nature of deca would ruin your sex drive.

I can mantain a healthy, strong libido throughout pct after a decent cycle of supressive gear even when bloodtests have shown that my natural testosterone levels are very low.

 

[SOLARUS]

the major concern of the htpa its the production of testosterone, it doesnt matter all the actions that leads to it and the others that follow

um, no.

you can live without testosterone...the HPTA is responsible for GH, IGF and thyroid output also (among other things, i'm sure, but i'm only a couple steps above the layman in my understanding so i cant preach too much)

:run:solarus out.

 

[nunes]

For the most part you're right, but the lack of libido can more typically be caused by the compound itself than the supression present. You can be supressed and still have a strong libido and high energy levels. Meanwhile you can have a high level of serum testosterone, but at the same time have a low libido.

For example, if you took a hrt dosage of test cyp (200mg/w) along with 400mg of deca a week, you would suffer from lack of libido. Your test levels and estrogen levels would still be high enough to support health libido function, but the nature of deca would ruin your sex drive.

I can mantain a healthy, strong libido throughout pct after a decent cycle of supressive gear even when bloodtests have shown that my natural testosterone levels are very low.

I can understand your point, no problems, I believe we are both right on some points of the discussion but the only indicators of suppression that make sense in a compound like anavar(we are not talking of progestins like deca) are the ones I mentioned , except of course if we make blood tests , but I think that its not an option for the great majority of users.

 

[nunes]

um, no.

you can live without testosterone...the HPTA is responsible for GH, IGF and thyroid output also (among other things, i'm sure, but i'm only a couple steps above the layman in my understanding so i cant preach too much)

:run:solarus out.

we were talking about test and the related hormones(LH , estrogen's and their effect in the testicular production of test ) and the effects that htpa have on it , the other hormones you mentioned I believe are irrelevant to the "test suppression" discussion.

 

[SOLARUS]

we were talking about test and the related hormones(LH , estrogen's and their effect in the testicular production of test ) and the effects that htpa have on it , the other hormones you mentioned I believe are irrelevant to the "test suppression" discussion.

i dont want the people reading this thread to be supplied with bad information, that's all.

 

[nunes]

i dont want the people reading this thread to be supplied with bad information, that's all.

you did well,I was just clarifying my post:thumbsup: