Milk thistle on cycle

brandon615

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Iver heard taking milk thistle on cycle might inhibit gains and if you take it afterwards you would be able to recover fine.
Is this true? Or should i just stick with my original plan to take it pre,on,post?
 
EctoPower

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Iver heard taking milk thistle on cycle might inhibit gains and if you take it afterwards you would be able to recover fine.
Is this true? Or should i just stick with my original plan to take it pre,on,post?

On cycle is fine, but don't take MT within 4 hours of whatever compound you're using.

For instance:
9AM - Dose
1PM - MT
5PM - Dose
9PM - MT

Something like that. Also, it's best to pre-load MT for up to 2 weeks and then continue it into PCT.
 
Skye

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Do you really care if it does? I would take some reduction in gains any day of the week for some liver protections. At any rate it is still argued and there is not a clear answer.
 
Delta Force

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On cycle is fine, but don't take MT within 4 hours of whatever compound you're using.
thanks for this comment, I continue to take MT even though i'm not on a cycle but will be soon, at least now I'll know not to take it w/ in 4 hours.
 
MuscleBound1337

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What's the evidence on that '4 hour' business? I've been taking milk thistle with my halo and trn. Is it really any different?
 
EctoPower

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What's the evidence on that '4 hour' business? I've been taking milk thistle with my halo and trn. Is it really any different?
With most methylated oral compounds, they've gone through the liver and then some by the time 4 hours has past since you dosed it. So this method is being extra careful to make sure the MT doesn't clear out the anabolic as it's trying to get processed in the liver. The liver is where the magic happens, right? MT will clean it out pretty well and that would interfere with the breakdown of your anabolic.

By waiting 4 hours, you essentially get all the benefits of MT keeping your liver safe while also making sure you're not crushing your anabolic before it's full impact can be released. I'm probably over-simplifying this a bit, but that's my understanding.

The first I heard of the 4 hour rule was from Dinoiii.
 
jonny21

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huh? what about serum levels and half lives?
 

dinoiii

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First off, Milk Thistle is probably not the greatest example as a recent 3rd party tested subset of products showed well over 80% of products NOT meeting label claims.

That said, the 4-hour protocol was introduced when multiple doses per day were employed to attenuate potential interaction. On a two-times per day protocol of oral PH/PS/DeS/AAS, the rationale centered on 4 hours to leave you up for 12 approximate hours.

In other words and a sheer example alone:

8am - 1st PH/PS/DeS/AAS (oral C17 alkylated) dose
12pm - 1st dose hepatoprotectant
4pm - 2nd PH/PS/DeS/AAS (oral C17 alkylated) dose
8pm - 2nd dose hepatoprotectant

Provided there are ANY other dosing protocols being employed, the direct hepatoprotectant setup would be modified accordingly. I have explained this setup (as well as presented the various lab work that offers rationale for it) thoroughly in many places on the web and I would invite you to check it out if the above doesn't seem clear.


Thanks for the interest,
D_
 
EctoPower

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First off, Milk Thistle is probably not the greatest example as a recent 3rd party tested subset of products showed well over 80% of products NOT meeting label claims.

That said, the 4-hour protocol was introduced when multiple doses per day were employed to attenuate potential interaction. On a two-times per day protocol of oral PH/PS/DeS/AAS, the rationale centered on 4 hours to leave you up for 12 approximate hours.

In other words and a sheer example alone:

8am - 1st PH/PS/DeS/AAS (oral C17 alkylated) dose
12pm - 1st dose hepatoprotectant
4pm - 2nd PH/PS/DeS/AAS (oral C17 alkylated) dose
8pm - 2nd dose hepatoprotectant

Provided there are ANY other dosing protocols being employed, the direct hepatoprotectant setup would be modified accordingly. I have explained this setup (as well as presented the various lab work that offers rationale for it) thoroughly in many places on the web and I would invite you to check it out if the above doesn't seem clear.


Thanks for the interest,
D_

Thanks for the clarification, D.

But this:

well over 80% of products NOT meeting label claims.
is a real kick to the nuts! First I've heard of it and I'm not happy. Guess I'll have to search for the names of some offending brands and hope mine isn't on the list!

:nutkick:
 
MuscleBound1337

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With most methylated oral compounds, they've gone through the liver and then some by the time 4 hours has past since you dosed it. So this method is being extra careful to make sure the MT doesn't clear out the anabolic as it's trying to get processed in the liver. The liver is where the magic happens, right? MT will clean it out pretty well and that would interfere with the breakdown of your anabolic.

By waiting 4 hours, you essentially get all the benefits of MT keeping your liver safe while also making sure you're not crushing your anabolic before it's full impact can be released. I'm probably over-simplifying this a bit, but that's my understanding.

The first I heard of the 4 hour rule was from Dinoiii.
I understand your reasoning, but I was asking if it's based on scientific fact or just an assumption. With Dosing 3 times a day it's hard to find a time 4 hours after the anabolic dosing to take it. By that time it's time for another dose of anabolics..
 
jonny21

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I understand your reasoning, but I was asking if it's based on scientific fact or just an assumption. With Dosing 3 times a day it's hard to find a time 4 hours after the anabolic dosing to take it. By that time it's time for another dose of anabolics..
Obviously not scientific fact. The whole point of dosing most oral AAS q-12hrs is too maintain consistent serum levels. That makes the reasoning moot.
 

dinoiii

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Obviously not scientific fact. The whole point of dosing most oral AAS q-12hrs is too maintain consistent serum levels. That makes the reasoning moot.
Through C17-alkylation, you are missing some pertinent points that allow for the said "consistent serum levels" that would make your statement accurate. But I suppose the six years of research in this area has left me biased.

However, rather than make this scientifically laden, as it seems many are forgetting here. The long and short is rather simple: If you alter hepatic metabolism, you will NOT be able to maintain the levels you are suggesting.

Even your q12h has some significant shortcomings in many cases, however, if q12 were the case, the ration would be rather simple with hepatoprotectants q6.


D_
 
MuscleBound1337

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Hmm so does the time you take the doe of MT or methyl substances matter? Or will it effect the potency of the anabolic just the same?
 

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