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R.I.P. One+

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  1. Dio
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    Originally posted by John Benz

    All 3 have encouraged teens to use ph. Par, Dante, and Pat have interjected their opinion in various threads AFTER I had a teen swayed away from ph! You say they just wanted to give honest opinions. How ****ing ignorant is it to tell a teenager that androgens are perfectly harmless, and then add the caveat, but you should probably be sure you're mature enough and most important of all, can you really afford them? Yeah, Dio, that's an honest opinion all right, and those self-righteous, arrogant asses have honest-opionized themselves into a hole they can't crawl out of.

    I'm not mad at you, but you need to go back and search out those threads. Start at the thread "1 test safe for 15" http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=48826

    There are a lot more and just as nasty. Your friend,

    John
    John I didn't forget about you, I just didn't feel like arguing again. I read the thread (I participated in that one) and a few others. I think it's all a matter of perception. I saw Par and Pat trying to be honest about what the possible repercussions are as opposed to encouraging their use.

    I personally do not want to see teens using PHs, especially 15 year-olds, but I know a couple of guys in their late teens who I thought were able to make educated decisions on using them.

    While I can see why spreading the information about side effects does not help the cause, I also do not think it's a good idea to use misinformation to get the job done.

    In my mind, we should discourage first and educate second. I really think you should take another look yourself. Most of the people in this business are sleazy and honest men are rare. Thus time, I think the ones you singled out are the good guys.

    Peace.

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    http://www.anabolex.com/forums/showt...0&pagenumber=1

    Ha, check that out, more of your "good" guys. What these guy's problem's? Any idea?
  3. Dio
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    I'm taking the 5th on this one.

    I'm tired of defending people or explaining their point of view here. Each side has their own opinion on the relevant subject matter and is unlikely to change it. I've made my viewpoint clear in the past. I've also made an effort to try to clear the air. It didn't work; so be it.

    I'll just finish by saying that I think both of you are good guys. There's just a lot of water under the bridge at this point. Hopefully at some point in the future both sides will reassess their views on the other.

    I have nothing else to say on this or any related matter at this point.
    •   
       

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    I just read at the old forum , dante posted that both he and Par have stated that ph are steroids.  Well , HOW T F  are you going to get ph from being banned then?  Is there some sort of lunacy spreading around?
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    Originally posted by K (Phoenix)
    I just read at the old forum , dante posted that both he and Par have stated that ph are steroids.  Well , HOW T F  are you going to get ph from being banned then?  Is there some sort of lunacy spreading around?
    \

    Yes, and I believe thats called "Tell everyone what they want to hear regardless of what the truth is" In Layman's terms we refer to it as "ignorance"
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    Originally posted by Dio
    ......It's funny that you mention that muscletech bashing, because I thought of the same thing. They have a huge customer base, but I'm not sure how many are literate
    lol

    Hey, who says you need to be literate to vote?  If you can vote then you can whine!  lol
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    Originally posted by Dio
    I understand that the chat is not representative of the whole of the board, but I've seen many threads with the same thing. i realize that this does not represent the whole, but it does seem represent the sentiment of most here. I don't see anyone disagreeing when these things happen. I just wanted to avoid the excessive bashing.
    Oh **** it man!  How many times I have supported the prick publicly? The first chance he got, he went public to stab me where I couldn't respond. Yeah, if I have any tears for him, I'll save them for myself!

     
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Yes, and I believe thats called "Tell everyone what they want to hear regardless of what the truth is" In Layman's terms we refer to it as "ignorance"
    Seriously, whether you like it or not, steroids are banned under the current law. If you state that phs are steroids, well, excuse the **** out of me, WTF are you complaining about PHS ban then?  You can't go to Congress and tell them to go **** themselves with the Steroid law they made and then expect them to see things your way. Talk about undermining your own case!  
  9. Dio
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    Originally posted by K (Phoenix)


    Seriously, whether you like it or not, steroids are banned under the current law. If you state that phs are steroids, well, excuse the **** out of me, WTF are you complaining about PHS ban then?  You can't go to Congress and tell them to go **** themselves with the Steroid law they made and then expect them to see things your way. Talk about undermining your own case!  
    Your point is well taken. It's a catch 22 situation that those douchebags with the andro lawsuit tried to capitalize on.

    Sometimes the truth can hurt your case, but in this situation there are different variations of it. There are several definitions for what a steroid is, but right now the only one that really matters is the governments. Gear should never have been criminalized in the first place. It took an alarmist media and a strong sports lobby to push it through. It's unlikely that those laws will ever be repealed although I think test will get easier to get a script for as time goes on.

    Most PHs are weaker than the real thing. Personally, I think this is a decent compromise as far as the FDA is concerned. Of course there are opinions that matter far more than mine...
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    Cool


    Originally posted by K (Phoenix)


    Seriously, whether you like it or not, steroids are banned under the current law. If you state that phs are steroids, well, excuse the **** out of me, WTF are you complaining about PHS ban then?  You can't go to Congress and tell them to go **** themselves with the Steroid law they made and then expect them to see things your way. Talk about undermining your own case!  
    This isn't bb.com, K, "****" isn't bleeped out
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    Originally posted by K (Phoenix)
    I just read at the old forum , dante posted that both he and Par have stated that ph are steroids.  Well , HOW T F  are you going to get ph from being banned then?  Is there some sort of lunacy spreading around?
    Talk about shooting yourself in the foot
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    Just read this thread. There is a lot of good stuff in this thread mixed in with a lot of bitching and whining. I don't prefer to read crap like this but we all have to do our part. I wrote who I needed to concerning the ph ban to at least show I was interested and supported the mind numbing efforts of those people who do not know what is happening in the world around them. I would prefer if **** like this never happened but it does. Oh well life is a bitch and we get over it until we reach our breaking point.
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    Originally posted by K (Phoenix)
    I just read at the old forum , dante posted that both he and Par have stated that ph are steroids.  Well , HOW T F  are you going to get ph from being banned then?  Is there some sort of lunacy spreading around?
     

    I know, funny isn't it? Regardless of scientific definition, they know that those noobs who read will see this and still equate PH = legal steroids, therefore they could get roids legally and be huge! Oh boy where do they get them, who sells them? It would seem obvious that they don't want the ban, but at the same time they knew the appeal of saying that PH's are steroids, hell that boosts sales folks. I guess it doesn't as much matter for them anymore, however.
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    Thats EXACTLY why I dont feel bad for the Avant boys. You reap what you sow.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Thats EXACTLY why I dont feel bad for the Avant boys. You reap what you sow.
    yeah,
    I just got into it with Par's attack Chihuahua
    over on the BB.com site.
    They're still trying to defend PH cycles for teens.
    Nice way to add fuel to the fire.
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    Originally posted by Blacksmith


    yeah,
    I just got into it with Par's attack Chihuahua
    over on the BB.com site.
    They're still trying to defend PH cycles for teens.
    Nice way to add fuel to the fire.
    Yea, I saw it, left nut always comes in and takes up for right nut.
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    It is the God Complex. "I am RIGHT. I speak the Truth (or is it truce? )" 
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    Originally posted by K (Phoenix)
    It is the God Complex. "I am RIGHT. I speak the Truth (or is it truce? )" 
    No, its like Chemo says when him and Par debate who's brew is better....Pars $80 one with lesser amounts of 1-test powder or Chemo's $50 one with more test and addes DMSO for better absorbtion...all Par can come up with is "I am Par, therefore I am right"
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    Next thing you know is Par calling you names. And he thinks he alone has the right to name calling . And the mods there have no problem with it! 

    I know I was the biggest jerk when it comes to name-calling. But I reformed and I thought the new rules prohibit that now, anyway.  The old forum is the shining example of one set of rules for certain people and another for the rest.  I know this is not fair to smack all the mods in one strike. There are certainly good ones there.

    If you disagree with Par, he gets indignant about it. Then you have his sidekick coming into a rage to rail on you, as if you have insulted his mother. 1fast wouldn't be too far behind neither. Sheeze!  Funny thing is, if you disagree with Pat, 1fast will be right there chewing at you ass, eventhough it is about a topic he has no ****ing clue what you people are talking about.  Sheeze! all these people have at one point being good friends. How the hell have things gone so far so fast down to hell?   The only common thing I see is MONEY !! 

    Now you really done it, Ken you idiot!  How could you question the "integrity" of "GODS" and their sidekicks?  DAMN you to hell!! 
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    Ken, You better hush up.


    The gods may be listening!
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    ah sigh

    Not like it matters anymore.
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    1fast wouldn't be too far behind neither

    At least people still mention me!!!
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    Now wheres my bitch dante at??? I can't stick up for the avant empire by myself
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    Originally posted by Blacksmith
    yeah,
    I just got into it with Par's attack Chihuahua
    over on the BB.com site.
    They're still trying to defend PH cycles for teens.
    Nice way to add fuel to the fire.
    Just read that. Incredible.  "I never said it is safe for teens to use ph/ps/steroid. I only say there is no risk for teens to use them."  "Show me where I said it was safe for teens to use them? "OOOOKAAAAY "  What a way to cover your ass!!!!
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    Originally posted by K (Phoenix)


    Just read that. Incredible.  "I never said it is safe for teens to use ph/ps/steroid. I only say there is no risk for teens to use them."  "Show me where I said it was safe for teens to use them? "OOOOKAAAAY "  What a way to cover your ass!!!!
    Regardless, the point is (and he knows it) is he wouldnt hesitate to sell his product to a teen. Knowingly sell his product to a teen.
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    Originally posted by K (Phoenix)
    I know I was the biggest jerk when it comes to name-calling. But I reformed and I thought the new rules prohibit that now, anyway. 

    I thought I was getting close LOL
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    Enough of this insanity. Par has done a tremendous amount for this industry, and all of this Avant bashing is baseless and ridiculous. I don't know why, but some find it hard to see what Par is arguing.

    The problem Par has with homebrews is that claims are made and there is NO evidence to back the claims up. Some have claimed that homebrews are just as effective, if not more effective, than his own. Fine and good. HOWEVER, if you're going to make a claim, BACK IT UP. This is something that EVERYONE must do for the sake of credibility; even middle-school research papers are required to have references. Par has written articles on the subject of his transdermals, with scientific references a mile long, and has a collection of feedback. There is nothing of either sort for homebrew, therefore, claims cannot be made. If you want to claim that homebrews are just as effective, fine, write an article and tell us why.

    And on the subject of older teens (18+), there is NO evidence that it is any worse for them than someone 21+. Show me one, just one, 18-year old individual, with severe, irreversible side-effects from responsible prohormone use. Go ahead.

    Avant Labs is a great company, with very talented and innovative people working there. They've done a good deal for this industry, and they deserve a lot more credit. They certainly don't deserve all this bull****. Avant never makes ridiculous claims, shady advertisements, or bull**** products. Quite the opposite, they make great products, conduct themselves very well, and only tolerate rational thinking. Plus, they inspired the entire 1-test/4-AD homebrew movement. This place would not exist had it not been for Avant.

    If ya'll want to pick on a company, pick on a company that deserves it.
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    Some how I knew that was coming


    Avant is a corrupt company. Practice what you preach, go read the various threads we have linked here to other sites where Par claims his product is so much better and his base is "Im Par, therefore it has to be better" I dont mind Avants as a company, just the arrogance behind it. You can not contradict left nut or right nut and not be insulted. They cant handle a debate without getting personal or trying to "out wit (LoL)" you. Chemo has asked Par a million times to debate and compare products and Par wont because that would force him to give up his formula (like anyone wants it) So until that day, I will continue to make as many claims as I would like and he can either put up or shut up.
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    Avant Labs is arrogant, therefore they are corrupt??? That is a bit of a stretch, to say the least.

    And yes, you can continue to make claims all you want (even though that was not aimed at you), but nobody will believe you, and why should they?? No evidence has been provided.

    You recently recieved your Master's, so you know about credibility. You back it up, or you shut up. If you make a claim about something, you say WHY you made that claim.

    His attitude is not "I'm Par, therefore I'm better", it's "I've written articles on this with references and you have not".

    And I don't want to give the impression that I'm saying that homebrews aren't good. Of course they are. But tell us WHY. Par has told us why he believes his are good in his articles, now who wants to step up for the homebrews??
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    Originally posted by SirSavageX

     
    And on the subject of older teens (18+), there is NO evidence that it is any worse for them than someone 21+. Show me one, just one, 18-year old individual, with severe, irreversible side-effects from responsible prohormone use. Go ahead. 

      Plus, they inspired the entire 1-test/4-AD homebrew movement. This place would not exist had it not been for Avant.

    If ya'll want to pick on a company, pick on a company that deserves it.
     

    It is not a matter of evidence is a matter of common sense, and for the second point if Avant  doing the inspiring, if not them, would have been someone else. I do respect the man, but he is not a God.
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    Well Im not the PH expert......but a BDC homebrew contains more 1-test powder and DMSO for added absorbtion....Avant's doesnt, our's is about $30 cheaper. I dont think I need to create and article, unless the really slow, "special" people would like one. Im not really in this fight to say which is better, Im telling you from the feedback we've recieved and the obvious....on paper facts. And they arent corrupt because they're arrogant. It all started when I questioned Dante, he got his panties in a bunch and decided to be a bitch and argue and those who know me, know I get off on that ****. So away I went with it.

    Im not a big PH advocate or fan, but the way everyone worships those fools is pathetic. Everyone over there would listen and believe anything they say, and NO ONE has the balls to question them, I did now im the internet bad guy
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    Originally posted by Rhinoman


     

    It is not a matter of evidence is a matter of common sense, and for the second point if Avant  doing the inspiring, if not them, would have been someone else. I do respect the man, but he is not a God.
    Everything is a matter of evidence. If I told you I had a brew that was twice as good as BDC's, would you believe me because I said so, or would you want to see something to back it up??

    I'm sure someone else would have inspired the homebrew movement if Par hadn't, but that didn't happen. He inspired it.

    No he's not a god, and his "Supplement God" image is largely satirical.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Well Im not the PH expert......
    Understood.

    but a BDC homebrew contains more 1-test powder
    This part we can really see for ourselves.

    and DMSO for added absorbtion
    Good, this is what I'm talking about. The science behind it. BDC's has DMSO, and it provides better absorbtion because "blah blah blah". See, someone needs to write a nice, professional piece, with references, to show how good BDC's, or whoever's, brew is. Otherwise, as I said, claims cannot be made, because no evidence has been provided.

    It has nothing to do with catering to the "slow" people, it is simply standard scientific procedure to back your claims and explain why "X" is better.

    The personal stuff I will not comment on, because I do not know enough about it, and it is irrelevant. This is the core issue.
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    Agreed SSX, 100%.

    Chemo was writing up a scientific comparion between the two and planned to prove why his was better or whatever, but he cant, because he cant compare ingredients, etc. since Par wont release his recipe. So until he does, nothing can be done.
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    Originally posted by SirSavageX


    Everything is a matter of evidence. If I told you I had a brew that was twice as good as BDC's, would you believe me because I said so, or would you want to see something to back it up??

    I'm sure someone else would have inspired the homebrew movement if Par hadn't, but that didn't happen. He inspired it.

    No he's not a god, and his "Supplement God" image is largely satirical.
    Reason enough to exercise common sense,  Not everthing is a matter of evidence, There is not evidence that God exist, however, people believe in him, Perhaps that can be assume for Par as well!
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    Sorry bro. The  Fina boards were doing homebrew back then using formulae that are totally different from Avantlabs. Remember Avantlabs never disclose their formular. So you wouldn't have the % to copy squat. We did the work ourselves.  60% Iso, 30% IPM, 10% OA. The original Kentuckey Fried Chicken recipe .

    But that is a moot point.

    Thousands of  fina users have gotten result very close to injection if they use 4-5X the amount of injection. So we can conclude that it is about 20-25% absorption rate.  Yeah I am sure thousands of Fina users cycle results are no match for something written by Par. 

    And not one homemade users have gotten bad result.

    Why do we claim it is as good as Avant's?  Same dosage. Same result.   Everyone who uses it, gets the same effect. It gets so ****ing tiresome hearing the same ol BS about no proof. It is just proof that not to their liking. 

    Of course, my words are garbage. So be it. Not that I give a rat ass anyway.

    I am sick of arguing about this already. Always the same crap over and over again.

    Btw, when Par originally thought his mix was lucky to get 20% , he recommended a dosage. Now that he claims 40%, how come he is still recommending the same dosage? You would think logic would require a reduction of dosage used.   
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    Originally posted by Rhinoman


    Reason enough to exercise common sense,  Not everthing is a matter of evidence, There is not evidence that God exist, however, people believe in him, Perhaps that can be assume for Par as well!
    That was an extreme example, but still, if a claim is made no matter what it is, evidence is needed to back it up. THAT is common sense.

    Everything in science is a matter of evidence, and this is a matter of science.
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    Originally posted by SirSavageX


    Everything in science is a matter of evidence, and this is a matter of science.
    Oh God, where have I heard that before
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    Originally posted by K (Phoenix)
    Sorry bro. The  Fina boards were doing homebrew back then using formulae that are totally different from Avantlabs. Remember Avantlabs never disclose their formular. So you wouldn't have the % to copy squat. We did the work ourselves.  60% Iso, 30% IPM, 10% OA. The original Kentuckey Fried Chicken recipe .
    Understood. When I first posted, I said the 1-Test/4-AD homebrew movement. That's what I meant, not the ORIGINAL homebrew movement. Sorry 'bout that.



    Thousands of  fina users have gotten result very close to injection if they use 4-5X the amount of injection. So we can conclude that it is about 20-25% absorption rate.  Yeah I am sure thousands of Fina users cycle results are no match for something written by Par. 

    And not one homemade users have gotten bad result.
    Gotcha'. However, since there is no injectable 1-Test to compare to One or One+, Par wrote an article to explain why he felt his had such a high absorption. That's the issue: because there is no injectable to compare to, Par wrote an article explaining why he feels his is the best; homebrewers have not done this for 1-Test. There has not been a strong, central piece that brings all of the evidence together for a homebrew formula.


    Why do we claim it is as good as Avant's?  Same dosage. Same result.   Everyone who uses it, gets the same effect. It gets so ****ing tiresome hearing the same ol BS about no proof. It is just proof that not to their liking. 


    Understood. I have not seen this myself, but then again, I have not looked very hard. It would be nice to have a collection of feedback, in addition to a nice, professional article, no?


    Btw, when Par originally thought his mix was lucky to get 20% , he recommended a dosage. Now that he claims 40%, how come he is still recommending the same dosage? You would think logic would require a reduction of dosage used.   
    Really? Do you have a link? Perhaps feedback, in addition to his research, led him to believe it had a much higher absorption that he originally thought. A reduction in the recommended dose wouldn't necessarily be needed, as long as the product was decently priced, giving good results, and within reasonable safety guidelines. If you're getting good results with dose "x", keep taking it, you don't have to cut it down to "1/2x" or whatever just because your original estimation seemed to be a little off.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket

    Oh God, where have I heard that before
    Ah, but you cannot deny it.

    And actually, I think he said something along the lines of "This is a matter of science--your feelings mean **** all." So, I was slightly original.

    Now, if you'll all kindly excuse me, there's a hit going down in Grand Theft Auto: Vice City that has my name all over it.
  

  
 

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