Havoc, for gaining mass (what's better ?)

[Indiana Jones]

I've been hearing that Havoc isn't the best PH for solely building mass, and that it's more geared towards strength gains. So what's better and how much more powerful in terms of side affects is it compared to Havoc/Epistane. I'm assuming Superdrol right ? Could you please mention the specific name of the clone.

 

[T H E O R E M]

I've been hearing that Havoc isn't the best PH for solely building mass, and that it's more geared towards strength gains. So what's better and how much more powerful in terms of side affects is it compared to Havoc/Epistane. I'm assuming Superdrol right ? Could you please mention the specific name of the clone.

well some gained 5-10lbs and few 15lb apparently.

me myself...i was cutting...so i didnt gain a POUND...its not so great for that but hey its a clean PS. Look for wet bulkers

 

[PappaD]

Stack it with 750mg of Test E and it will work GREAT!!! LOL

 

[The_Reverend]

Superdrol and clones are great for mass.

 

[silverSurfer]

To gain mass, some have used SD and clones, some have used Phera and clones. I don't know which is stronger and/or builds more mass. Either way you have to manage your caloric intake and eat more, otherwise you won't get the results you want.
If you go through some of the Havoc logs, several people also reported a significant amount of weight gain, so I guess it all depends on how well your body responds.

Simple answer: go with The Reverend's answer above

 

[Indiana Jones]

Even though this will be my first PH cycle I'm really leaning towards M-drol or P-Plex instead of Havoc. I know that they're much more harsh on your body than Havoc but to me the rewards by far outweigh the risk. Too bad I spent the last few weeks researching Havoc instead of the other two. I'm much more interested in gaining mass than anything else.

Do you think it's a problem for me to take superdrol or phera as my first PH cycle ? My PCT will include (nolva, lean extreme, test booster, cycle support)

 

[pantera101]

Do you think it's a problem for me to take superdrol or phera as my first PH cycle ? My PCT will include (nolva, lean extreme, test booster, cycle support)

I think it's fine,i don't get why people freak out about it.Just don't go past 20,and maybe stay at 10 throughout.10/10/10.Thats what i'm going to try and do if i can help it.I have seen a couple make good gains doing this.I beleive movinweight is contemplating this also.

 

[nosnmiveins]

i think 10/10/20 might be better, little more powerfull than 10/10/10 and not as harsh as 10/20/20

 

[Trauma1]

I've been hearing that Havoc isn't the best PH for solely building mass, and that it's more geared towards strength gains. So what's better and how much more powerful in terms of side affects is it compared to Havoc/Epistane. I'm assuming Superdrol right ? Could you please mention the specific name of the clone.

This is completely dependent upon how you have your havoc cycle and diet set up. If the overall havoc cycle is set up right, you can obtain some very nice mass gains as well as very impressive strength gains.

 

[chuck2000]

Even though this will be my first PH cycle I'm really leaning towards M-drol or P-Plex instead of Havoc. I know that they're much more harsh on your body than Havoc but to me the rewards by far outweigh the risk. Too bad I spent the last few weeks researching Havoc instead of the other two. I'm much more interested in gaining mass than anything else.

Do you think it's a problem for me to take superdrol or phera as my first PH cycle ? My PCT will include (nolva, lean extreme, test booster, cycle support)

Why us everyone in this forum so infatuated with prohormones and OTC PCT supps?? These things are probably not even fit for lab rats. I used the last generation of this stuff a few years back and, speaking as someone that has used true AAS that has at one tome been through the rigors of FDA or similar approval process, PH and the like are far less safe, tend to have more side effects and provide less positive impact than the tried and true AAS compounds.

 

[pantera101]

Why us everyone in this forum so infatuated with prohormones and OTC PCT supps?? These things are probably not even fit for lab rats. I used the last generation of this stuff a few years back and, speaking as someone that has used true AAS that has at one tome been through the rigors of FDA or similar approval process, PH and the like are far less safe, tend to have more side effects and provide less positive impact than the tried and true AAS compounds.

We have been through this a million times.......LEGALITY ISSUES!!!!!!!

 

[pantera101]

i think 10/10/20 might be better, little more powerfull than 10/10/10 and not as harsh as 10/20/20

Thats not a bad plan.Thats prob what i'll do if needed.By the end of second week i will know by then if i should bump it up or stay.I read an analogy a guy made one time with AAS,but i'll give tha same with m-drol
You dont want to ne the guy that brags of taking 40mg for a month and gains5-10lbs,you want to be the guy that takes 10 for three weeks,and gains10-20lbs.

 

[chuck2000]

We have been through this a million times.......LEGALITY ISSUES!!!!!!!

Yeah...aint LE a *****.

 

[DBinMD]

Even though this will be my first PH cycle I'm really leaning towards M-drol or P-Plex instead of Havoc. I know that they're much more harsh on your body than Havoc but to me the rewards by far outweigh the risk. Do you think it's a problem for me to take superdrol or phera as my first PH cycle ? My PCT will include (nolva, lean extreme, test booster, cycle support)

First, unless I missed it, I don’t know anything about you. Stats like height, weight, age, years lifting, etc. are important. Assuming you are over 21, and lifting seriously for 3 years and have your diet, training, and non-hormonal sups in order then maybe you can go to the next step. Otherwise you’re just taking a short cut to where you would be anyway with all the risks and expense.

ISTM, most people, respond real well their first cycle. Epi seems to be well liked and tolerated by most. You know this, since you did a lot of research. Some people respond extraordinarily well to hormonal stuff, some don’t much, most are somewhere in between. But if you do well with phera or mdrol, I suspect, for your first cycle epi will do well, too.
Personally, I didn’t like mdrol particularly much. Phera was good but really more than you need.

Assuming you're in your early 20's you've probably got a good 30's years to train. There's no rush.

DB

 

[T H E O R E M]

Even though this will be my first PH cycle I'm really leaning towards M-drol or P-Plex instead of Havoc. I know that they're much more harsh on your body than Havoc but to me the rewards by far outweigh the risk. Too bad I spent the last few weeks researching Havoc instead of the other two. I'm much more interested in gaining mass than anything else.

Do you think it's a problem for me to take superdrol or phera as my first PH cycle ? My PCT will include (nolva, lean extreme, test booster, cycle support)

i mean its not like havoc is WEAK. its still decent and reccomended for first timers, i have a bunch of bottles of it for the future. id say go havoc first...you could probably pack on some good mass if everything is done properly

 

[Indiana Jones]

So Superdrol seems to be the ultimate PH for both mass and strength gains then doesn't it ?

 

[pantera101]

yes

 

[Indiana Jones]

yes

:thumbsup:

 

[thebeast1234]

i just bought granite x...it is a superdrol clone and i was wondering if anyone has tried this product

 

[pantera101]

never heard of it.Who makes it?how much did you pay?whats the pill count and mg per pill?

 

[DBinMD]

So Superdrol seems to be the ultimate PH for both mass and strength gains then doesn't it ?

Depends on how you look at it. Supposing for a first cycle Havoc/Epi is strong enough it might be a nicer cycle if you don't have to deal with the sides. There's no way to tell ahead of time how you'll feel when on or even how much you'll gain. There seems to be few people that don't make good gains on Epi. There also seems to be few people who don't have severe sides on Superdrol. I also think a lot of people are taking them as a short cut and would make those gains eventually, anyway. But that's another topic.

Size and strength are not the only aspects of a good cycle, it's nice to feel good, too. I'd say the "milder" anabolics are a better choice as long as they are effective. Milder is only a relative term.

Epi is a prescriptive drug in some countries. It at least has some testing behind it. Superdrol is a crap shoot. I'm not saying you should never do it, but I think for a first cycle it's over kill.

 

[Cerberus777]

In my opinion it is always best to try to get the most ot of the less potent first. If you can gain 5-10 lbs frome 20-30mg of epi then do that first. You can only do it once or twice before you have to go up in dosage. Once you have made gaines on the milder stuff and know how your body responds move on to stronger stuff. your gains will be more consistant and easier to keep.

 

[MkUltra]

however, superdrol will make you feel the sh*ttiest as well-
I felt decent on Phera, but it really messed up my BP