first cycle PCT guidance

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    first cycle PCT guidance


    ok,
    I'm preparing a grocery list for my first ever cycle
    and here it is. It's just a simple Epistane solo run but i'd like opinions nonetheless. Feedback would be appreciated if I've left out anything critical or highly advisable.

    Epistane: Going to go with the 'minimum shutdown' guideline on the
    product site which is 3x per week on lift days for 4 weeks at 40mg
    Cycle support by AI started 1 week prior to the Epi.

    PCT
    I will have 100 20mg tabs of Tamoxifen on hand, I'm not sure
    if I want to use that or just some OTC stuff like Post Cycle Tabs from IDS while keeping the tamox for emergency use.

    If I choose to use the tamox: is it enough on its own for optimal
    recovery and safety, or are there other things i need? Do I dose 7 days a week or just on lifting days as with the planned Epi cycle? Is there a maximum dosage per week I don't want to go over, as a man of medium build and height?

    If I don't use the Tamox:
    Aside from the pct tabs, will there be any other supps i need to buy?
    I have 94 tabs of T-bomb II left over
    from when I was working out heavy last year. If you read the ingredients it has Tribulus, Fenugreek, and Saw palmetto in it among other things I see in legal ptc supplements. Can I buy just one box of the PCT tabs and then just finish off the old T-bomb?

    Question on Creatine: there's been some debate on wether to use it on cycle or off and I'm just not sure. Also, when combined with something like epistane, will creatine bloat be exagerrated? that would help me decide to wait til off cycle as i'm hoping to earn a balanced look between cut & bulk.
    Last edited by Nightwanderer; 03-06-2008 at 01:27 AM. Reason: more Tamoxifen questions

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    Epi is a good compound for a firsti. Read Neoborn's Epi FAQ. Lots of good inf there. That should settle your dosing protocol and PCT issues all together.

    Tamox alone should be enough. Epi doesn;t have a bad cortisol rebound (IME), and I don't think u need a corti blocker with the serm. So cycle support and maybe a test booster for pct.

    On creatine, I use 7/365, no extra bloating (IME), I think if u lift w/o creatine u r wasting time. The only time I think its unnecessary is when ur injecting.
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    I'd use Retain2 to be safe starting a week after pct. Epi's somewhat milder than others, say Superdrol, but it's still a pretty strong steroid. I cycled off creatine and will start it back up as soon as my cycle is over (beginning of pct) to help keep gains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziquor View Post
    I'd use Retain2 to be safe starting a week after pct. Epi's somewhat milder than others, say Superdrol, but it's still a pretty strong steroid. I cycled off creatine and will start it back up as soon as my cycle is over (beginning of pct) to help keep gains.
    about the retain2 : on top of the Tamoxifen, or only if I choose to go with purely over the counter PCT supps?
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    Reatain 2 inhibits cortisol, tamox blocks your receptors from estrogen binding. Run with tamox or with the OTC setup.
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    Most Importantly!

    No Excuses & No ***** ***: A Stupid People's Guide to PCT

    SERM + P.C.T Guide

    Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:

    Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.


    1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc

    Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
    Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
    Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
    Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm

    You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem

    Example Nolva Dosing:
    Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
    Wk2: 20mg everyday
    Wk3: 10mg everyday
    Wk4: 10mg everyday

    I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better

    2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe.

    3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

    4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

    5. Test Booster - Good reviews or I have used: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

    NON-Rx SERM + P.C.T Guide

    1. Non Rx SERM - Post Cycle Support(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended)

    2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.

    3. AI - Formestane(Recommended), Sustain Alpha(Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

    4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

    5. Test Booster - Good reviews or have used the following: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

    All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.

    With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.

    Things To Note

    1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!

    2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT


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    ...he made it easy for u
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJoeski3 View Post
    ...he made it easy for u
    lol I actually read that faq very late at night and was so tired I retained nothing and didn't recall reading it til I saw it again
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziquor View Post
    I'd use Retain2 to be safe starting a week after pct. Epi's somewhat milder than others, say Superdrol, but it's still a pretty strong steroid. I cycled off creatine and will start it back up as soon as my cycle is over (beginning of pct) to help keep gains.
    So you're saying you don't necessarily need anti-cort during PCT? Is that because the body isn't catabolic (in a sense) until later on? Sorry it's the first time I'm hearing this so want to clearify...
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    I just finished an Epistane pulse cycle of 8 weeks.

    I used for PCT

    4 weeks
    POST Cycle Support 2 caps AM 2 caps PM
    Cycle Support 1 scoop AM 1 scoop PM

    Worked GREAT!

    I am going to do a Havoc/Methyl E cycle and use the exact same PCT it worked so well.


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    Quote Originally Posted by maynehood171 View Post
    So you're saying you don't necessarily need anti-cort during PCT? Is that because the body isn't catabolic (in a sense) until later on? Sorry it's the first time I'm hearing this so want to clearify...
    I dunno if that came out wrong on my part or what but I'm saying I'd personally use Retain2 (cort blocker) with any hormonal cycle and start it a few days into PCT since cort levels start to increase somewhere about a week after you stop taking your 'hormones'.
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    thanks for the clearification
  

  
 

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