2nd Opinion- 1-AD, 1,4

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    2nd Opinion- 1-AD, 1,4


    A gentlement at my who is Id guess 25 or 26 years old probanbly 5'9 and right around 175-18 (so he says, looks more like 160 to me) But today was his first day in and they always send new members to me to go over a few things with him.....he had an interesting question, one that Ive never been asked, I told him Id get back with him since I was 100% sure (note to any Personal Trainers: Once you give bad advice ONCE, you're done, word gets around)

    So the question is- Hes getting started again after a 8 month total lay off, doesnt look to be in bad shape to me, probably around 10-11% BF (just a guess) but he says he has 2 bottles of 1-AD and 1 and 1/2 bottles of 1,4 & 4-diol. After I explained that 2 bottles of 1-Ad isnt adequate for any kind of massive gains he understood, but he wants to know if he can use this combo until its ran out just to get back into the swing of things. Ive never really thought about how a rise in natural test levels could effect muscle memory or over all reoccuring gains. Im pretty sure it couldnt hurt but if he didnt insist on this stack to help him get back into it, I would have told him he would be better of getting back in shape then using this stacks to get the full benefits of it. I feel like a newbie here or maybe Im over thinking this, but is it a bad idea to do maybe a 3 week cycle of some light PHs to help start the process of getting back in shape?


    Dont worry, nutrition and training have already been explained and he's established an importance of them.....but this question lingers on my mind, hope you guys can help....

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    ex_banana-eater's Avatar
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    at the rate muscle memory kicks in for most, he could do it naturally. id say save the hormones for a plateau
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    Tell him not to expect noticeable gain. But that his workout should be slightly more intense and his recovery should also be slightly faster.

    Tell him that should not be considered a cycle at all.
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    What shouldent be considered a cycle? He has two bottles of 1AD thats 120 caps. Even at 6 caps a day (many have results with less than that) that's 20 days of 1AD. That IS a cycle and he could expect to see as much as 10 pounds in that time. I gained 8 in two weeks on 1AD so he could easily see 10 in 3 weeks. No add in the 1, 4 and he cetainly does have a good 3-4 week cycle.

    Whether he should use one after a lay off is debateable but he will see some results if he chooses to use it. 
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    Considering his previous training I assume (you say 8 month layoff or so, right?), he's not exactly a complete newbie at this, but that sort of depends on how long he was training before the layoff. You say he's sure of diet and training, and I'm sure if he consulted with you he's sure about his basic supps, right?

    Well, as a virgin to PH's, I'd think he will be in for some great gains if all other factors are in check, and I would consider this a cycle, although he will definitely get the "beginner gains" again I'm sure, regardless. The thing is, I don't see how this could be detrimental in any way if he knows what's going on with his diet and training, and knows some about PH's and their science. His age isn't a problem obviously. If you explain to him about PH's and what exactly they do, and how he should alter certain aspects of his routines, then I'd say go for it.

    If it looks like he's never actually focused on training though (160 can be seen both ways), then I'd tell him to shelf it for awhile. If nothing else it will kick-start his lifts and recovery time, so if he has them and looks like he's touched a weight before, I guess he could go ahead. I hate the gray areas sometimes, you know?
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    Sorry bro. It's a terminology issue. I tend to consider a cycle= 8 weeks, 18-20lb gains.  I suppose 2-3weeks , 10-12 lbs can also be called a cycle.  My mistake there.
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    Originally posted by K (Phoenix)
    Sorry bro. It's a terminology issue. I tend to consider a cycle= 8 weeks, 18-20lb gains.  I suppose 2-3weeks , 10-12 lbs can also be called a cycle.  My mistake there.
    No probs K, I hear ya. We all have different definitions at times for the same words! I am beleiver in short cycles anyway K, so for me it's an automatic response,
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    I gained 19 pounds in 4 weeks and kept 17! So it can be done!
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    You must be blessed with tremenduously receptive receptors. Very amazing result indeed.
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    It's not a bad idea.

    However, if he goes past two weeks, some sort of testosterone booster needs to be used immediately after, to keep testosterone as high as possible, so that gains may continue.
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    Originally posted by K (Phoenix)
    You must be blessed with tremenduously receptive receptors. Very amazing result indeed.
    First cycle blessings I guess. I wish I would have stopped at 4 weeks instead of going on to 9 weeks before ending.
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    Originally posted by SirSavageX
    It's not a bad idea.

    However, if he goes past two weeks, some sort of testosterone booster needs to be used immediately after, to keep testosterone as high as possible, so that gains may continue.
    Agreed 6OXO or some nolva/clomid right away! Of course YJ knows that.
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    Thanks Jake, SSX and K, Much appreciate, they might let me keep my job now

    Im such a newbie
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    I think i may have windwords beat.

    roughly 15 lbs of lbm and in 5 weeks of a 1-test/4-AD and 1-AD(added at last 2 weeks) and 5-AD(dropped for last week) cycle with no creatine and with nearly maintenance level calories for weeks 4 and 5.
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    YJ, Sounds like this guy really wants to use the PHs
    and IMO it can't hurt. You already have established
    with him that he may not see massive gains, so
    your in the clear. Make sure he hits legs (squats,deadlifts)
    more often than say chest.

    I think however, he should first
    get into the swing of things for 2-3 weeks PH free.
    Then he will be ready to up his intensity without the
    soreness of the first week +. Otherwise he may get
    so sore initially going all out that he will layoff some
    in say week one or two and waste the PH cycles full
    potential.

    After 3 weeks if he's making good progress and
    then says I want to continue and take it up a notch,
    great. Then hit the PHs and up the intensity and volume.

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    Originally posted by Blacksmith

    I think however, he should first
    get into the swing of things for 2-3 weeks PH free.
    Then he will be ready to up his intensity without the
    soreness of the first week +.

    Thats actually very good advice....when you first come back DOMS is inevitable. If you're wanting to get back in and do a short cycle to get the muscle mass back, you may want to train without it for a week or 2, not many people like to/want to train when sore, good point bro, thanks.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    I would have told him he would be better of getting back in shape then using this stacks to get the full benefits of it.


     
     

    I agree with that 100%.....I would have him get back into shape for about 3-4 months and THEN use the PH's

    but thats JMO...

     

    LG.  
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    Tell him to buy another bottle of 1Ad and he's got a full 4 week cycle, no? Why **** around when you can do it right?
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    The 2 good bros have amazing results. But those are exceptional cases. Not typical at all.  I don't think as a trainer you would want to set your client's expectation that high. It is better to have reasonable expectation with the actual result exceeding it, than to have it the other way around.  Just my opinion.
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    He was planning on doing a 8 week cycle if I recall right?

    I would have him go 4 weeks without ph's and weeks 5-8 with the ph's. Most ppl who take 1-ad and 1-test don't see much gains past the 4th week anyway, well they do, but most come in weeks 1-4. Two bottles is more than enough of 1-ad so he could get a good cycle out of that. I would also reccommend him take 300mg a day of 1,4 to increase appetite. He has a low bf% so it won't hurt if he add's on a little bf, but lots of ppl usually lose bf from 1-ad cycles.

    Most importantly I'll say again, I wouldn't have him start the ph's right away because of muscle memory. He should try to gain most of it back first, remember the faster you put on muscle, the harder it is to retain it post cycle.
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    I agree, the best would be wait at least a month to get back into the swing of things in the gym, then get one more bottle of 1-AD and do a full 4 week cycle. Nothing sucks more than not being able to go full out while "on." And IMHO, jumping right to "on" when coming back after 8 weeks would be silly-ass, maybe checkup on that "super dosing of flax" thread that was somewhere over on BB.com, they were talkin like 6-7 tablespoons or more a day if I recall, and it seemed to be working for those that did it, also, get him on the liver tabs bro!

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
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    Originally posted by ex_banana-eater
    at the rate muscle memory kicks in for most, he could do it naturally. id say save the hormones for a plateau
    Exact same advice.
  

  
 

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